2013 MLB Thread

[MerrittsMustache]

Lets suppose this is correct, I have to ask how these suspensions would be good for baseball? As I I have said before, probably in this thread, I just don't care if these guys are using testosterone or whatever else. It's the same game, they still get three strikes, three outs, etc. I want to watch good baseball players play baseball. PED use is rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, and nobody cares, including the league. I just don't quite understand why  it's different for baseball. Actually, maybe I do. Is it because the Bonds, Sosas, and McGuires of the world were so over the top with it? I suppose I get that, but I'd also say those days of steroids, HGH, etc. seem to be gone. I also get that I admittedly present a position that is difficult to reconcile, but I assume 75%+ of baseball players are doing something, and I just don't care.

Baseball is big on numbers (755, 61, 300 wins, etc). When players are using PEDs to aid in reaching and passing those historic numbers, people care. Few NFL fans know the records for rushing yards or TDs or sacks right off the top of their heads. Baseball is also a very individual game so each players' individual stats matter. Roughly 25% of NFL players (o-linemen) don't even have stats to compare against past players. It's a very different sport from a numbers perspective and it's also a game whose popularity is built largely on its violence. If guys being bigger, faster and stronger (regardless of how they got there) means more big hits and more incredible plays, then so be it. That's what fans want.

NFL players (Alzado, Mandarich, Mathews, etc) have been just as "over the top" with PED usage over the years, probably more so . No one cares because that's the nature of the game.

[jesmu84]

I'd also say baseball isn't about being the fastest, strongest, biggest, hardest hitter, etc like the NFL. Baseball has always been more of a finesse/stats/strategy game (before the HR race).

[NavinRJohnson]

Baseball is big on numbers (755, 61, 300 wins, etc). When players are using PEDs to aid in reaching and passing those historic numbers, people care.

I guess that's my point. So many of those numbers have already been blown out of the water by roided up freaks, that I dont really care anymore. I know what is going on/what happened. If they're "all doing it," which they all are, I'll happily turn a blind eye, ala the NFL, and enjoy watching games.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Back to some 2013 talk.  As exciting as it would be for this board to see the Cubs and Brewers battle it out for the division, it's not happening.   I think it's a tough call between Cincy and St. Louis.  On paper I think it's the Reds but St. Louis has been defying what was on paper for too long now. Carpenter out the entire year again hurts, but it doesn't ever seem to matter to them. They'll move a guy like Joe Kelly in there and he'll win 14 games.

[NavinRJohnson]

See, I think the Brewers are going to surprise and the Reds are going to disappoint. In the end I expect all three in the mix. All will score runs, and I expect the Brewers young rotations to perform far better than people might expect.

[MerrittsMustache]

2013 NL Central Champions: Pittsburgh Pirates

[Benny B]

It appears as though Cubs fans are already starting to defect...

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130310/COL03/303100093/Doc-Red-has-special-bond-cancer-patient?nclick_check=1

In all seriousness, it's beneficial to have things put into perspective every once in a while.  Whether it's someone from the Reds, Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals... one simply cannot undervalue the importance that professional athletes have in providing that occasional, but necessary, escape when life throws a curve ball.  It's reassuring to know that guys like Hannahan still exist in baseball... even if they play for the other team.

[🏀]

It appears as though Cubs fans are already starting to defect...

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130310/COL03/303100093/Doc-Red-has-special-bond-cancer-patient?nclick_check=1

In all seriousness, it's beneficial to have things put into perspective every once in a while.  Whether it's someone from the Reds, Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals... one simply cannot undervalue the importance that professional athletes have in providing that occasional, but necessary, escape when life throws a curve ball.  It's reassuring to know that guys like Hannahan still exist in baseball... even if they play for the other team.

That's Paint Touches little brother.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Luis Gonzalez hit 40 HR above his 10-year average of 16.4 that exact same year and never hit 30 again.  Bonds is not as completely exclusive as you make him out to be.

Gonzo looked like he was jacked from footage of him I've seen in the early 2000's (particularly when he hit 57 HR). Most definitely juicing.

[BrewCity83]

Brewers finally pull the trigger on a stud FA starter.  Welcome to Milwaukee, Kyle Lohse...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21948086/kyle-lohse-to-sign-with-brewers

[MerrittsMustache]

Brewers finally pull the trigger on a stud FA starter.  Welcome to Milwaukee, Kyle Lohse...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21948086/kyle-lohse-to-sign-with-brewers

It's worth a shot for the Brewers. However, the Cardinals know what they're doing and are very successful at understanding that a year too early is better than a year too late. If they didn't want Lohse back, what does that tell you?

[NavinRJohnson]

It's worth a shot for the Brewers. However, the Cardinals know what they're doing and are very successful at understanding that a year too early is better than a year too late. If they didn't want Lohse back, what does that tell you?

Certainly not in his prime, though last year was his best. However, it reallytells me that STL is already on the hook for $110M in payroll this year, a large percentage of which is going to Wainright, Garcia, and Westbrook (and Carpenter for that matter).

[Coleman]

As a Cardinal fan I am pretty surprised by how pumped up Brewers fans are about Lohse. He had a very good 2012, and an above average 2011. But if you look back over the course of his career, he's been a pretty middle of the road starter, generally a very solid 3rd or 4th guy in the rotation. I'd rather have both Wainright and Garcia on my roster. I honestly think without the magic of Dave Duncan, Lohse probably wouldn't even be in the majors anymore. He was pretty bad when he got to St. Louis.

Again, not a terrible pick up. But a "stud FA starter?" Hell no.

[Benny B]

I absolutely hate this signing.  But then, I loved the Suppan and, to a slightly lesser extent, Wolf signings when those happened; hopefully, I'm going 0 for 3.

[BrewCity83]

Lohse was a "DNP" for all of 2010-2011 IIRC.  Since he returned, he's been pretty studly (30 wins in 2 seasons).  And he's better than what the Brew Crew was gonna trot out for their 4th or 5th man.  Just what the Brewers need to solidify their rotation right now.  I agree, I would be happier with a 1 or 2 year contract, but with their offense and defense (and bullper--fingers crossed), he should be a really good addition to this team for this season at least.

[GGGG]

Even with Lohse, that rotation is a step away from disaster.  Who knows.

[Benny B]

Even with Lohse, that rotation is a step away from disaster.  Who knows.

Especially when it's a step towards covering home plate on a passed ball with Prince Fielder charging from 3rd.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers, and Lohse has been pretty mediocre throughout his career with the exception of last year.

[NavinRJohnson]

The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers,

What exactly is your sample for that declaration?

[shiloh26]

What exactly is your sample for that declaration?

Braden Looper, but mostly Jeff Suppan.  And it's probably wrong to characterize that one as luck.  Suppan was a career-long middling starter who had a great post-season before the Brewers paid him like a no. 2 starter based on that small sample size.   

If there is one thing the Brewers can't seem to get enough of, its signing old, soft tossing righties to large contracts. 

[MUBurrow]

The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers, and Lohse has been pretty mediocre throughout his career with the exception of last year.

Everyone us terrible luck with cardinals pitchers - Duncan is a miracle worker. This is a bad signing that will look worse as time goes on. Strategically, think of it this way: the Brewers could have had this signing 45 days ago. Everyone's known that Lohse and Boras were pissing in the wind for well over a month. What has changed for the Brewers since then to make a good deal?

The fact that they whipped out the Bobby Bonilla delayed payments for friggin Kyle Lohse is unreal to me.

[BrewCity83]

The Brewers did the deal because they are a better team with Lohse today than they were yesterday without him.  The contract did not bust their budget.  Their payroll this year is now around $84 million, and he fills an immediate hole.  Hey, I like the deal.  He's being overpaid, but hey, it's not my money. 

The reason they didn't do the deal sooner is that Lohse was looking for 5 years for $60 million.  They had to wait him out to get to the more palatable numbers that they settled on. 

[Hards Alumni]

Bad deal.  Probably won't be in the playoffs for the next couple of years... so what is the point?

[BrewCity83]

More likely to be in the playoffs this year with Lohse than without him.  That's the point.

[MUBurrow]

More likely to be in the playoffs this year with Lohse than without him.  That's the point.

I don't disagree that they're marginally better with Lohse than without him (advanced stats say about 2 wins better). But doing deals like this is how you end up with one of the worst farm systems in baseball with little to show for it. And I liked the Greinke and CC deals, and even the Marcum deal. But this Brewers team is not those teams, and to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.