MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GGGG on January 17, 2013, 08:45:05 AM
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So the Brewers think they can win with a rotation of Yovani Gallardo, Marco Estrada, Wily Peralta, Mike Fiers and Mark Rogers?
Furthermore, the Brewers really didn't sign any position players either and have a payroll that has shrunk compared to the last couple years. Gonna be a long year.
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Ooops...should be in the Superbar! Mods please move?
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You've been reading Jeff Passan, haven't you. For shame.
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Do the Cubs think they can win just because Theo Epstein is in an office somewhere? I feel like it's going to be a long season for a lot of different teams.
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Ooops...should be in the Superbar! Mods please move?
You were so excited to create the 2013 thread, you put it in the wrong board. Shame on you.
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Do the Cubs think they can win just because Theo Epstein is in an office somewhere? I feel like it's going to be a long season for a lot of different teams.
No one is planning on the Cubs winning this year.
However, looking at the rotation Sultan just posted. The Cubs might have a better staff!
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Do the Cubs think they can win just because Theo Epstein is in an office somewhere? I feel like it's going to be a long season for a lot of different teams.
The Cubs signed a journeyman pitcher with a career 4.40 ERA to a $52M dollar contract. It's safe to say Theo's got this under control.
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Do the Cubs think they can win just because Theo Epstein is in an office somewhere? I feel like it's going to be a long season for a lot of different teams.
In this week's SI there is a story about the demise of the Red Sox. In it, Theo basically says all his screw-ups toward the end of his tenure with the Red Sox (Crawford, Lackey, Gonzalez signings, etc) were forced on him by the owners in an effort to improve NESN television ratings.
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No one is planning on the Cubs winning this year.
However, looking at the rotation Sultan just posted. The Cubs might have a better staff!
People have planned on the cubs winning before?
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So the Brewers think they can win with a rotation of Yovani Gallardo, Marco Estrada, Wily Peralta, Mike Fiers and Mark Rogers?
Furthermore, the Brewers really didn't sign any position players either and have a payroll that has shrunk compared to the last couple years. Gonna be a long year.
I'll take Peralta over Narveson, Estrada over Marcum, and Fiers over Wolf. Weeks will come back to form, Segura is projected as a .290-.300 hitter, and they completely revamped the bullpen. The Brewers blew 29 saves and I believe scored the second most runs in the national league. If lucroy can stay healthy and Aoki stays consistent I like the teams chance to compete for the central.
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In this week's SI there is a story about the demise of the Red Sox. In it, Theo basically says all his screw-ups toward the end of his tenure with the Red Sox (Crawford, Lackey, Gonzalez signings, etc) were forced on him by the owners in an effort to improve NESN television ratings.
Is Theo quoted as saying that? I thought that's just what Tito wrote in his book. I could be wrong though.
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Is Theo quoted as saying that? I thought that's just what Tito wrote in his book. I could be wrong though.
I just read it in the magazine this morning while eating breakfast, but I'm pretty sure they were quotes attributed to Theo.
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It will be interesting to see how the entire NL Central adjusts without having the Astros to whoop on for as many games this year.
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It will be interesting to see how the entire NL Central adjusts without having the Astros to whoop on for as many games this year.
+1
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Let's just all agree that the Reds will win the NL Central this year. Any other team from the NL Central will struggle to make the expanded wild card.
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I think the ownership of the Dodgers may be involved in some "Brewster's Millions" type of scenario.
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I agree with Sultan, I don't see where the improvments were made...
Go Crew.
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You've been reading Jeff Passan, haven't you. For shame.
Yes! I admit to stealing the line.
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Yes! I admit to stealing the line.
Sinner.
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I agree with Sultan, I don't see where the improvments were made...
Go Crew.
Stole this from MLB:
Gonzalez is the Brewers' third significant bullpen pickup in about a month, joining fellow former Nationals lefty Tom Gorzelanny (free agency) and former Rays right-hander Burke Badenhop. With incumbent closer John Axford, right-handers Henderson and Brandon Kintzler, plus one of the five competitors for four open spots in the starting rotation, the Brewers have the makings of a seven-man relief corps.
29 blown saves and worst bullpen ERA, Brewers had 16 the year before. They can score runs, I think they'll be better than you think. Aoki, Weeks, Braun, ARam, Hart, Lucroy, Segura, Gomez is a solid lineup. Green, Gamel and Gennett off the bench.
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Let's just all agree that the Reds will win the NL Central this year. Any other team from the NL Central will struggle to make the expanded wild card.
I think it is foolish to ever count out the Cards.
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I think it is foolish to ever count out the Cards.
I'm well aware, but I will anyway.
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Yes! I admit to stealing the line.
As long as we're plagiarizing, let me steal a line I heard on WTMJ-620 this weekend: "Sure, there are question marks about [the Brewers in 2013], but the question marks all have to do with 'can these young players continue doing the good things they showed during the second half on 2012?'"
Passan is to MLB what Eamonn Brennan is to college hoops... I really, truly wonder where Passan comes up with this crap (Weeks and Segura the worst defensive 2B/SS combo in the league?!? Really? You're picking on a guy who has improved exponentially over the past three years and a guy who jumped from AA to the majors last year? That's some creme de la creme analysis there, Jeff.) In any event, the TMJ talkity-talk guy was more right than Passan...
OFFENSE: Mostly unchanged from the team that scored more runs than everybody else but one in the NL last year, however this time they have a SS who can actually hit the ball on the opening day roster.
MIDDLE DEFENSE: Just as good as it was last year. Even better if Schaefer makes the team.
CORNER DEFENSE: Same guys as usual in the OF and the hot corner. Defensively, Hunter Morris or Mat Gamel will be just as good at 1B in Hart's absence.
ROTATION: Pretty much the same as it was after they traded Greinke and clawed themselves into meaningful September baseball. Depth is significantly better with Thornburg having a taste of ML experience, Rogers healthy and effective, and young guys like Bradley and Jungmann moving up the ranks.
BULLPEN: Overhauled. Not a bunch of all-stars, but definitely not the same corps who blew 30 saves last year. Plus, Axford doesn't have a newborn inhibiting his sleep this year (coincidence? From a guy having a 3y/o, a 2y/o, and one more on the way, I say not a chance in hell), so that with $5M should have him sleeping better at night and more effective on the mound.
So would you rather have a question mark of whether young guys like Fiers, Peralta, and Estrada can keep up what they showed last year or whether aging veterans like Lohse, Dempster, Haren and Edwin Jackson can do the same. Personally, I'd rather have serviceable starters who continue to improve rather than old guys who had career years recently and hope they can keep it together for one more year. Doug Melvin has himself in prime position to pick up another K-Rod-type contract mid-year, preserve the future by signing sign some young guys long term, and with expendable, young, ML-ready (or proven) depth at nearly every position.
If you can hold everything else equal, and safely assume that the new relief corps will only blow 20 saves this year, the Brewers should win 93 games this year. That should be more than enough for a wild-card and possibly enough to win the Central. But of course, that would be a gross oversimplification; however, not many teams other than the Dodgers got unequivocally better over the off-season (except the Cubs, who couldn't do anything but get better after last year).
Predicted order of finish (with ceiling/floor):
Reds 1st or 2nd.
Brewers no worse than 3rd.
Cardinals anywhere between 4th and 2nd. They will not win the division.
Pirates anywhere from 2nd to last.
Cubs no better than 3rd.
Of course, please consider this is coming from the mouth of someone who not only detests throwing money away, yet just wrote check for two large to renew his season tickets.
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8859965/chicago-cubs-propose-300-million-renovation-wrigley-field
Cubs' ownership vs. Chicago politics. Who will budge first?
Also, http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8863056/chicago-cubs-owners-sob-story-suspect-no-denying-wrigley-field-needs-help
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Ehh... I think Ricketts is right and that ESPN Chicago article is short-sighted.
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Cubs are playing this well now.
Originally they asked for money for the reconstruction. Now they will pay for it, but need some laxing on the 'historical' status of some of the features and get some more night games.
They won't get more night games and concerts, so Rahm will be able to spin that denial into some public funding. They will say they worked out a deal that kept the Cubs in Chicago.
If the Ricketts don't get anything, they will have no problem looking at moving the team.
Sidenote: That ESPNChicago column was terrible. First he's saying Wrigley is a museum and Ricketts is money hungry. Then pretty much ends the article saying they need the improvements? I hate these guys that still think Wrigley needs to be a shrine.
Best part of it all, the Cubs specifically stated that a videoboard would be installed for statistical and live video uses. Not hokey 'kiss cams' or overt promotions.
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The Cubs aren't moving and everyone knows it. Wrigley Field makes too much money simply by being Wrigley Field. As a Cubs fan, I have no faith in Tom Ricketts. He became a "bleacher fan" as a young adult and that's who he tries to pander to. Unfortunately, a majority of Cubs fans are smarter than the meathead/frat guy/bleacher fan so we don't buy what he's selling. On top of that, he has kept Crane Kenney as the team president. Kenney is a punchline in Chicagoland. He's completely inept and he's been caught blatantly lying several times. How anyone can keep that guy around is beyond comprehension.
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The Cubs aren't moving and everyone knows it. Wrigley Field makes too much money simply by being Wrigley Field. As a Cubs fan, I have no faith in Tom Ricketts.
They aren't moving, but I don't think Ricketts is afraid to look at other options to force the City's hand.
What's more likely, the Cubs moving or the City letting the Cubs move? They are just playing the game like they should have from the beginning.
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Cubs are playing this well now.
I find it funny that the only time this can be said is during the offseason.
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I find it funny that the only time this can be said is during the offseason.
I tried to get angry, but touche.
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I tried to get angry, but touche.
;)
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When it comes to the idea of the Cubs moving, Ricketts can only force a stalemate... he can talk all he wants about it being a consideration, but he doesn't have the cohones to do that to his investment. The City can tell him to pound sand on his request, and Tom either does or doesn't carry on... end of story.
Now the City - should it ever desire to do so - could easily go in and condemn Wrigley at any time. Multiple events of spalled concrete overhead in a public facility is grounds for immediate closure... the building dept. is cutting a lot of slack with allowing the Cubs to put up the mesh and netting, but they could reign that in anytime they wish.
Frankly, neither side will consider the extreme. Both sides may bark, but it would be financial and/or political suicide to move and/or shut down Wrigley.
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Ryan Braun and another PED involvement?
I thought this was all limited to a guy who lives in Pleasant Prairie.
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Ryan Braun and another PED involvement?
I thought this was all limited to a guy who lives in Pleasant Prairie.
I hate to say it, but its not shocking. From the very first report, Jimmy Goins (the U's baseball strength and conditioning coach) was implicated. I've been holding my breath since reading that.
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I am squarely in the, "no longer care about PEDs in baseball" camp, as I believe they are all doing it. So even though I assume Braun is doing it just as much as the next guy, I have to say, I find his statement/denial/explanation in this case to be entirely believable.
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Ryan Braun and another PED involvement?
I thought this was all limited to a guy who lives in Pleasant Prairie.
Turns out Braun's name was hand-written in Biogenesis' records and the hand-writing matches the that of the Milwaukee test handler. Boy, that guy must really be out to get ol' Ryan.
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Turns out Braun's name was hand-written in Biogenesis' records and the hand-writing matches the that of the Milwaukee test handler. Boy, that guy must really be out to get ol' Ryan.
(http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/332692795_620.jpg)
Braun Hater.
So is Braun going to apologize to him?
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Braun's Statement:
During the course of preparing for my successful appeal last year, my attorneys, who were previously familiar with Tony Bosch, used him as a consultant. More specifically, he answered questions about T/E ratio and possibilities of tampering with samples.
There was a dispute over compensation for Bosch's work, which is why my lawyer and I are listed under "moneys owed" and not on any other list.
I have nothing to hide and have never had any other relationship with Bosch.
I will fully cooperate with any inquiry into this matter.
If this is true, his lawyers you'd assume would have a paper trail of this legal week and invoices.
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Braun's Statement:
If this is true, his lawyers you'd assume would have a paper trail of this legal week and invoices.
T.J. Quinn is currently on ESPN saying that using Tony Bosch as a consultant would be "stunning" and it would be hard to find someone "less qualified or less credible" considering he wasn't a real doctor and was previously associated with Manny Ramirez's failed drug test.
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So the Brewers think they can win with a rotation of Yovani Gallardo, Marco Estrada, Wily Peralta, Mike Fiers and Mark Rogers?
I like the move actually. They only have to win for 3-4 months. They know there's no way four pitchers who haven't thrown 150 innings ever would last the season. If they're in it in July, the payroll cushion leaves room to make a move. Better than committing to overpay someone for five years before the season. Decent depth in the minors as well that is bound to produce one or two eventual starters.
T.J. Quinn is currently on ESPN saying that using Tony Bosch as a consultant would be "stunning" and it would be hard to find someone "less qualified or less credible" considering he wasn't a real doctor and was previously associated with Manny Ramirez's failed drug test.
And let's be real...if you're using this guy to try to support an appeal, you don't come anywhere near this guy without telling MLB that's exactly what you're doing before doing it. If the first knowledge of this contact was from MLB unearthing this as part of their investigation it's just pathetic to try to come up with a defense.
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And let's be real...if you're using this guy to try to support an appeal, you don't come anywhere near this guy without telling MLB that's exactly what you're doing before doing it. If the first knowledge of this contact was from MLB unearthing this as part of their investigation it's just pathetic to try to come up with a defense.
Let's be real? You are suggesting that Braun should/would have disclosed who he was using to help him prepare his appeal to MLB...his opponent in the process? I think not.
The explanation my seem far fetched, but I assure you neither Braun's attorneys nor the MLBPA would allow him to disclose anything that did not come out directly through the appeal itself. Nor should he. Doesn't mean his excuse isn't BS, but your suggestion above doesnt really make sense.
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Let's be real? You are suggesting that Braun should/would have disclosed who he was using to help him prepare his appeal to MLB...his opponent in the process? I think not.
The explanation my seem far fetched, but I assure you neither Braun's attorneys nor the MLBPA would allow him to disclose anything that did not come out directly through the appeal itself. Nor should he. Doesn't mean his excuse isn't BS, but your suggestion above doesnt really make sense.
Guess we're just waiting for the MLB to come out and clear Braun then.
No MLB guys in the Twittersphere are buying Braun's story.
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Here's something I don't understand about this whole thing...how exactly is MLb going to investigate, and what are they going to investigate for that matter? They have as much right to any documents or anything else in that clinic as I do. They can ask a lot of people a lot of questions, but I don't see any way they can actually prove anything.
If the Feds want to move in, thats something else, but MLB can't clear him of the accusation and innuendo, any more than they can suspend him for what may or may not appear in couple documents in a clinic. Which I suppose, is why Braun can issue as vehement a denial as he did. What's the downside? Right now it's one rather inconclusive media account on one hand, with a somewhat plausible explanation on the other.
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Also, no offense to Yahoo! because I love their reporting, but taking a picture of just five names on a whole page and posting it is a little "meh". Why not post the whole page...
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Here's something I don't understand about this whole thing...how exactly is MLb going to investigate, and what are they going to investigate for that matter? They have as much right to any documents or anything else in that clinic as I do. They can ask a lot of people a lot of questions, but I don't see any way they can actually prove anything.
If the Feds want to move in, thats something else, but MLB can't clear him of the accusation and innuendo, any more than they can suspend him for what may or may not appear in couple documents in a clinic. Which I suppose, is why Braun can issue as vehement a denial as he did. What's the downside? Right now it's one rather inconclusive media account on one hand, with a somewhat plausible explanation on the other.
If I understand correctly, MLB would like to get the DEA involved to do some investigating to see if Braun (or any of the other players) had shipments of any illegal performance-enhancing substances shipped to them and/or other evidence that could be used to build enough of a case (not journalistic evidence) to prove to an arbitrator that these players violated the MLB drug policy and should be suspended.
Let's not forget that MLB is likely out to get something on Braun since he was caught cheating, they believe 100% that he cheated but he got away with it because of a technicality.
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I am squarely in the, "no longer care about PEDs in baseball" camp, as I believe they are all doing it.
Agreed for the most part. Here's what I don't understand about the whole PEDs thing... Players and Players Associations/Unions, of any sport, don't want further/increased testing (blood, biological passports, etc) for some reason. They don't want total transparency and a clean sport. Yet they get all upset when anyone asks them about the possibility of PED use. You can't have it both ways. What is there to lose if everyone is clean? Why not have total transparency? You win/succeed based on your talent/work ethic, and that's it. And if all the players are using or want to use, then let them all use and move on. In a sport like football, where we value speed and strength, is any fan going to be that upset if they know all the players are juicing?
This also opens another discussion of where to draw the line in the definition of "PEDs." Is Kobe using PEDs when he goes to Germany to have stem cells put in his knee to help his career last longer? Is a football player using PEDs if they get a cortisone shot in a sore shoulder before a game? What's the difference between those and McGwire using PEDs to get more home runs?
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Let's not forget that MLB is likely out to get something on Braun since he was caught cheating, they believe 100% that he cheated but he got away with it because of a technicality.
I don't think MLB is "out to get Braun" for anything. Braun being labelled a cheater is not good for baseball... MLB knows this, and they're not going to go on a witch hunt against Braun or anyone for that matter. MLB's reaction following the appeal was feigned outrage so that the public would perceive MLB as being tough on PEDs... MLB will do the absolute minimum to investigate/enforce their policies and not go an inch further.
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I don't think MLB is "out to get Braun" for anything. Braun being labelled a cheater is not good for baseball... MLB knows this, and they're not going to go on a witch hunt against Braun or anyone for that matter. MLB's reaction following the appeal was feigned outrage so that the public would perceive MLB as being tough on PEDs... MLB will do the absolute minimum to investigate/enforce their policies and not go an inch further.
A star player who gets busted for cheating but serves no punishment is worse for MLB than a star player getting busted and serving his punishment.
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A star player who gets busted for cheating but serves no punishment is worse for MLB than a star player getting busted and serving his punishment.
Only in the eyes of a congressional committee; fortunately, our congressmen and women aren't the ones buying season tickets these days.
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Time for Braun to just fess up before he suffers irreparable embarrassment. He's just tryin' to keep the public image from more tarnish and loss of endorsement income. Total squirmy douche.
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The MLB isn't out to get Braun, it's ESPN. ESPN were the ones who broke the Braun PED case. When Braun proved he was innocent, ESPN was outraged. There is definitely a vendetta there. I for one believe Ryan, I don't feed into the ESPN bull$*t everybody else does. Ryan's explanation makes perfect sense to me.
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Why would ESPN be out to get Braun? And why should them breaking the news about him and PED be used as proof?
And you actually think his explanation makes sense??? I'm a Brewer fan, and his explanation makes no sense whatsoever.
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Why would ESPN be out to get Braun? And why should them breaking the news about him and PED be used as proof?
And you actually think his explanation makes sense??? I'm a Brewer fan, and his explanation makes no sense whatsoever.
Well when the news source who broke the story was wrong, i think that might have been a soft spot for them.
How does his explanation not make sense? During his appeal, his attorney's were discussing their defense with Tony Bosch. He obviously has a very good knowledge on illegal substances that are used in the MLB.
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Well when the news source who broke the story was wrong, i think that might have been a soft spot for them.
How does his explanation not make sense? During his appeal, his attorney's were discussing their defense with Tony Bosch. He obviously has a very good knowledge on illegal substances that are used in the MLB.
Dude, your Brewers blind spot is getting pretty ridiculous. Ask San Francisco fans about Barry Bonds and see how ridiculous they sound. That's exactly how you and all of Brewers nation sounds right now.
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The MLB isn't out to get Braun, it's ESPN. ESPN were the ones who broke the Braun PED case. When Braun proved he was innocent, ESPN was outraged. There is definitely a vendetta there. I for one believe Ryan, I don't feed into the ESPN bull$*t everybody else does. Ryan's explanation makes perfect sense to me.
Braun wasn't proven innocent. He tested positive but his case was thrown out because of a technicality. That's not innocence.
Well when the news source who broke the story was wrong, i think that might have been a soft spot for them.
ESPN wasn't wrong. Braun did test positive for high testosterone levels.
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Well when the news source who broke the story was wrong, i think that might have been a soft spot for them.
How does his explanation not make sense? During his appeal, his attorney's were discussing their defense with Tony Bosch. He obviously has a very good knowledge on illegal substances that are used in the MLB.
That's like asking a gang member to consult on your murder appeal because they have a "very good knowledge" on how to kill people. There is no logic behind using him to consult...especially when the defense they used had nothing to do with illegal substances, but the chain of control issue. A completely different issue whatsoever.
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That's like asking a gang member to consult on your murder appeal because they have a "very good knowledge" on how to kill people. There is no logic behind using him to consult...especially when the defense they used had nothing to do with illegal substances, but the chain of control issue. A completely different issue whatsoever.
Obviously you've never seen Silence of the Lambs.
I actually do find it to be a plausible explanation. May not be true, but it is entirely plausible and even more logical. if you need to figure out how to beat the system, wouldn't you ask a guy who has been succesfully doing it? of course you would. Just because they didn't use that defense, doesn't mean they didn't explore it.
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Obviously you've never seen Silence of the Lambs.
I actually do find it to be a plausible explanation. May not be true, but it is entirely plausible and even more logical. if you need to figure out how to beat the system, wouldn't you ask a guy who has been succesfully doing it? of course you would. Just because they didn't use that defense, doesn't mean they didn't explore it.
It's hard for me to imagine any circumstance where consulting a guy who pretends to be a doctor would be a good idea.
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Obviously you've never seen Silence of the Lambs.
Good lord....really?
Cmon people...don't act like such dumbasses.
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It's hard for me to imagine any circumstance where consulting a guy who pretends to be a doctor would be a good idea.
Think Mr. Horton wanted to play Dr. with Arnold and his buddy. So yes, I agree with you.
(http://warp78.tripod.com/cgi-bin/horton.jpg)
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Good lord....really?
Cmon people...don't act like such dumbasses.
Only an actual dumbass requires teal.
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Braun's defense is possible, but not plausible.
I can't imagine that Ryan was directly paying invoices to a "consultant" for his legal defense.
Normally, a defense team would pay for everything and then invoice the client for the expenses incurred, especially for a wealthy client.
Also, 30K is a TON for consulting. Even at $500 per hour, the dude would have to spend 40-60 hours consulting on Braun's case. That's a lot.
Oh, as as far as ESPN being out to "get him", that is one of the more insane things I have ever read. Everything ESPN has printed has been true. Braun failed a drug test, and won his appeal. The fact that ESPN got the story is a nice piece of journalism, frankly.
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Only an actual dumbass requires teal.
Heh...
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Braun's defense is possible, but not plausible.
I can't imagine that Ryan was directly paying invoices to a "consultant" for his legal defense.
Normally, a defense team would pay for everything and then invoice the client for the expenses incurred, especially for a wealthy client.
Also, 30K is a TON for consulting. Even at $500 per hour, the dude would have to spend 40-60 hours consulting on Braun's case. That's a lot.
I think some people are getting too hung up on the terms 'consulting' and 'consultant.' We aren't talking about Deloitte or Accenture here. We're talking about a guy. A guy who provides banned or illegal PEDs to athletes. If you accept Braun's version of things for a minute, and they really wanted his insight into how to potentially win his appeal, $20-30k sounds like peanuts to me. There's no corporate contract, no Scope of Engagement. It's, "I'll give you $25k if you help us figure out how to beat this thing." Looking at it in that cynical way, as I choose to...entirely plausible.
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I think some people are getting too hung up on the terms 'consulting' and 'consultant.' We aren't talking about Deloitte or Accenture here. We're talking about a guy. A guy who provides banned or illegal PEDs to athletes. If you accept Braun's version of things for a minute, and they really wanted his insight into how to potentially win his appeal, $20-30k sounds like peanuts to me. There's no corporate contract, no Scope of Engagement. It's, "I'll give you $25k if you help us figure out how to beat this thing." Looking at it in that cynical way, as I choose to...entirely plausible.
If the guy could make that much money consulting, he wouldn't need to sell PEDs.
Annnd, even if the guy did charge Braun 25K for consulting, then why isn't Braun's legal team paying him? Why is Braun paying him directly?
I know this seems like a technicality, but I can't imagine a wealthy client paying for a consultant directly. Braun's legal team should've paid (and have records of that payment) and a subsequent invoice to Braun.
Technicalities, I know... but something doesn't smell right... which moves this away from "plausible" to me.
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If the guy could make that much money consulting, he wouldn't need to sell PEDs.
Annnd, even if the guy did charge Braun 25K for consulting, then why isn't Braun's legal team paying him? Why is Braun paying him directly?
I know this seems like a technicality, but I can't imagine a wealthy client paying for a consultant directly. Braun's legal team should've paid (and have records of that payment) and a subsequent invoice to Braun.
Technicalities, I know... but something doesn't smell right... which moves this away from "plausible" to me.
Plus, wouldn't he...you know...issue him a legal invoice and not just write it down on a piece of paper?
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Plus, wouldn't he...you know...issue him a legal invoice and not just write it down on a piece of paper?
Yes. However, this could be explained by saying that this dude was/is a shady piece of crap who was terrible at bookkeeping.
There isn't really an excuse for Braun's legal team. Certainly they have some sort of standard bookeeping/invoicing and accounting system in place.
Let's see the paper trail.
Also, Braun certainly should have a personal accountant/finance manager. Let's see that guy/gal produce some paperwork.
I've dealt with poorly managed vendors, but that doesn't mean that my bookkeeping goes to hell. We still document everything the best we can.
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Annnd, even if the guy did charge Braun 25K for consulting, then why isn't Braun's legal team paying him? Why is Braun paying him directly?
I know this seems like a technicality, but I can't imagine a wealthy client paying for a consultant directly. Braun's legal team should've paid (and have records of that payment) and a subsequent
Maybe they did. Fact is, we don't know anything. We have a Yahoo story with virtually no details, and Braun's explanation on why his name showed up in records at this clinic. Not sure why it has to be one or the other, or why you're assuming that Brayn paid him directly? There is nothing I've seen to indicate that's necessarily the case.
For all we know, his legal team has perfectly detailed records of what happened. The fact that we haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist, and no legal team worth anything is going to volunteer anything up that they don't have to.
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Plus, wouldn't he...you know...issue him a legal invoice and not just write it down on a piece of paper?
How do you know they didn't? What exactly is a leal invoice anyway? Is there such a thing as an illegal invoice.
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Let's see the paper trail.
Also, Braun certainly should have a personal accountant/finance manager. Let's see that guy/gal produce some paperwork.
Why would they? Right now Braun doesn't owe anybody anything. All providing any sort of paper trail is going to do is open a door that he has no reason to open. MLB is pretty powerless on his whole thing. If said paper trail actually exists,there is no reason for Braun to produce it until he has to, if he has to. Again, no lawyer worth a damn would allow him to do otherwise.
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Why would they? Right now Braun doesn't owe anybody anything. All providing any sort of paper trail is going to do is open a door that he has no reason to open. MLB is pretty powerless on his whole thing. If said paper trail actually exists,there is no reason for Braun to produce it until he has to, if he has to. Again, no lawyer worth a damn would allow him to do otherwise.
True, but by the same token, Braun had no reason to issue a statement, which he did. He didn't owe that to anybody.
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but if Braun wants to protect his image, then he'll probably have to go all of the way and show some documentation. Or, don't. I don't really care - but, simply releasing a statement doesn't really explain it in enough detail.
Again, for me, it's possible, but not plausible.
I guess we'll see what happens.
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Maybe they did. Fact is, we don't know anything. We have a Yahoo story with virtually no details, and Braun's explanation on why his name showed up in records at this clinic. Not sure why it has to be one or the other, or why you're assuming that Brayn paid him directly? There is nothing I've seen to indicate that's necessarily the case.
For all we know, his legal team has perfectly detailed records of what happened. The fact that we haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist, and no legal team worth anything is going to volunteer anything up that they don't have to.
Oh, my assumption that Braun paid him is based upon Braun's name being in the book. If (insert lawfirm) hired him, then that information would be in the book.
Even if the guy is an awful bookkeeper, he has to know where to collect the checks. I assume he has that part correct.
Maybe not...
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Navin,
You sound worse than someone trying to sell the Manti T'eo story.
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Dude, your Brewers blind spot is getting pretty ridiculous. Ask San Francisco fans about Barry Bonds and see how ridiculous they sound. That's exactly how you and all of Brewers nation sounds right now.
Because Bonds and Braun are almost comparable....
Lets look at Berry's picture as a rookie, and then 10 years later.
Then let's do the same for Ryan. (yes he hasn't been in the league that long, but you get the point)
How do you explain his numbers from last year then?
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Because Bonds and Braun are almost comparable....
Lets look at Berry's picture as a rookie, and then 10 years later.
Then let's do the same for Ryan.
How do you explain his numbers from last year then?
Worst PED argument ever. He's not big enough!
Size has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Because Bonds and Braun are almost comparable....
Lets look at Berry's picture as a rookie, and then 10 years later.
Then let's do the same for Ryan. (yes he hasn't been in the league that long, but you get the point)
How do you explain his numbers from last year then?
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/131/351/eb6.jpg?1307463786)
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I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them. Sorry, i thought size was a good example.
How do you explain the numbers then?
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I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them. Sorry, i thought size was a good example.
How do you explain the numbers then?
How does anyone know he wasn't still juicing?
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I really don't know much about roids or PED's, or the difference between them. Sorry, i thought size was a good example.
How do you explain the numbers then?
Size is no longer a good indicator. Guys know they can't grow 4 hat sizes without somebody becoming suspicious.
But, guys can take supplements/PEDs in the off season that will make them stronger (not necessarily bigger) and during the season guys may use something that helps them remain healthy and in peak condition for all 162.
If you look at the list of guys who have been "caught", its not all McGwuire/Caminiti/Bonds types.
In fact, years ago, a skinny former Brewer named Alex Sanchez was busted.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2029037 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2029037)
As far as Braun, if he had a terrible year last year, it wouldn't confirm that he did it. If he had a big year (like he had) it doesn't confirm that he didn't do it. Performance on the field is not a perfect 1:1 indicator. A urine or blood test is the best indicator, but still obviously has it's flaws.
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The days of the over the top HGH, Steroid freaks like Bonds, Sosa, MacGuire are over.in my baseball world, al l are guilty until proven innocent, which is why I no longer care.
It is odd to me that nobody bats an eye at guys like Clay Matthews, JJ Watt, Suh, Briggs, Willis...everyone right down to the friggin punter, but when it comes to baseball we get all the feigned indignation. It just makes no sense to me.
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Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.
Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league. Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself). He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history. That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.
Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball. He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons. His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year. The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster? Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.
Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters. But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh. So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.
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He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history. That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.
Luis Gonzalez hit 40 HR above his 10-year average of 16.4 that exact same year and never hit 30 again. Bonds is not as completely exclusive as you make him out to be.
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Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.
Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league. Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself). He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history. That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.
Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball. He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons. His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year. The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster? Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.
Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters. But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh. So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.
Unless Braun has been using since college.
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Unless Braun has been using since college.
You mean when he trained with Jimmy Goins? No way!
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Unless Braun has been using since college.
Originally, I had put that in my last post, but I deleted it out before posting... that is a possibility; however, it would be difficult to reconcile that prospect with the fact that MLB themselves have touted how Braun was tested on numerous occasions and judged clean.
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You guys must believe that Braun's been juicing the whole time and beating all of the tests ala Lance Armstrong. If that's the case, why all the hate towards Braun? The whole league must be doing it right along with him.
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Assuming Bonds and Braun are both guilty of what the general public thinks they are, the difference between the two is quite easily explained: Bonds used PEDs to enhance his performance on the field; Braun used PED's to enhance the "performance" of his body's healing process.
Bonds was not a power hitter when he came into the league. Granted he was a very good baseball player, but no one in 1987 would have ever predicted he would break the season and career HR records (except maybe himself). He averaged 41 HR's per 162 games over 22 years (after averaging only 26 through his first eight years in pro ball), yet he hit 32 HR's above his average in 2001; that's an increase of over 175%... no player has ever done anything like that in any sport in history. That would be like Jay Cutler throwing 42 TD passes next year and then never throwing more than 20 TD's in a season for the next ten years.
Braun's numbers have been level since he joined the ranks of professional baseball. He averaged 34 HR's per 162 in the minors and 37 per 162 in six ML seasons. His BA in 2011 was only 8 points higher than it was his rookie year. The only numbers that did improve drastically recently were his SB numbers, but even if you don't attribute that primarily to managerial strategy, would an MLB player of Braun's caliber risk his paycheck by taking PED's simply to run faster? Honestly, if Braun took PED's to enhance his performance, he really needs to be asking for his money back.
Again, assuming the rumors are true, Bonds and Braun are both cheaters. But one cheated the game and his fellow players, while the other simply cheated Yahweh. So unless you think you're God, it's quite shortsighted to lump Braun and Bonds into the same category.
What?
Baseball is a marathon, not a sprint. If Braun's PEDs helped him to stay healthy, that certainly is cheating.
You want an example: Joe Mauer. If Mauer could stay healthy for 162 games and catch everyday, he'd be top 5 player because a catcher who can bat .350 has TREMENDOUS value.
Truth is, Joe struggles to stay healthy, and that greatly limits his impact.
Braun has had a couple of nagging injuries over the years. If he used something that helped him recover quicker on a day to day basis, you can bet that helped his performance and made him more valuable.
Braun is not some 90's steroid freak, but that doesn't mean he's clean.
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http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8945988/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-shows-additional-document-clinic-linked-major-league-baseball-ped-investigation
Braun again.
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Worst PED argument ever. He's not big enough!
Size has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it.
What's to say he hasn't been juicing since his college days in ... wait for it... Miami!
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What's to say he hasn't been juicing since his college days in ... wait for it... Miami!
The University of Miami is an outstanding place of higher education, I would never...
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Ouch! Mat Gamel already out for the year, do ACL surgeries come with a warranty?
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Ouch! Matt Gamel already out for the year, do ACL surgeries come with a warranty?
Wow... and Mat Gamel is out, too. How's that for coincidence.
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Bonds used roids, makes your body change in size. Other PEDS don't have that same impact, thus the comparison of size of Braun to Bonds doesn't mean Braun didn't do it just because he isn't as big. Lance Armstrong wasn't big either. A lot of stuff going on out there there that helps you heal faster, etc, but not necessarily adding mass or bulk.
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Any Brewer fans know how much like a 10 game package in the 2nd tier or lower would cost for 2 seats? Thinking about getting a small package.
Thanks.
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Any Brewer fans know how much like a 10 game package in the 2nd tier or lower would cost for 2 seats? Thinking about getting a small package.
Thanks.
$300-500 per seat.
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$300-500 per seat.
3-5 for a 10 game package? That's not too bad, thanks Benny.
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lacking a little credibility/professionalism, but....
http://daps.tv/source-robinson-cano-alex-rodriguez-ryan-braun-and-curtis-granderson-to-be-suspended/
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lacking a little credibility/professionalism, but....
http://daps.tv/source-robinson-cano-alex-rodriguez-ryan-braun-and-curtis-granderson-to-be-suspended/
Yeah, no.
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Yeah, no.
He got it right for Melky...
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Lets suppose this is correct, I have to ask how these suspensions would be good for baseball? As I I have said before, probably in this thread, I just don't care if these guys are using testosterone or whatever else. It's the same game, they still get three strikes, three outs, etc. I want to watch good baseball players play baseball. PED use is rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, and nobody cares, including the league. I just don't quite understand why it's different for baseball. Actually, maybe I do. Is it because the Bonds, Sosas, and McGuires of the world were so over the top with it? I suppose I get that, but I'd also say those days of steroids, HGH, etc. seem to be gone. I also get that I admittedly present a position that is difficult to reconcile, but I assume 75%+ of baseball players are doing something, and I just don't care.
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Lets suppose this is correct, I have to ask how these suspensions would be good for baseball? As I I have said before, probably in this thread, I just don't care if these guys are using testosterone or whatever else. It's the same game, they still get three strikes, three outs, etc. I want to watch good baseball players play baseball. PED use is rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, and nobody cares, including the league. I just don't quite understand why it's different for baseball. Actually, maybe I do. Is it because the Bonds, Sosas, and McGuires of the world were so over the top with it? I suppose I get that, but I'd also say those days of steroids, HGH, etc. seem to be gone. I also get that I admittedly present a position that is difficult to reconcile, but I assume 75%+ of baseball players are doing something, and I just don't care.
Baseball is big on numbers (755, 61, 300 wins, etc). When players are using PEDs to aid in reaching and passing those historic numbers, people care. Few NFL fans know the records for rushing yards or TDs or sacks right off the top of their heads. Baseball is also a very individual game so each players' individual stats matter. Roughly 25% of NFL players (o-linemen) don't even have stats to compare against past players. It's a very different sport from a numbers perspective and it's also a game whose popularity is built largely on its violence. If guys being bigger, faster and stronger (regardless of how they got there) means more big hits and more incredible plays, then so be it. That's what fans want.
NFL players (Alzado, Mandarich, Mathews, etc) have been just as "over the top" with PED usage over the years, probably more so . No one cares because that's the nature of the game.
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I'd also say baseball isn't about being the fastest, strongest, biggest, hardest hitter, etc like the NFL. Baseball has always been more of a finesse/stats/strategy game (before the HR race).
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Baseball is big on numbers (755, 61, 300 wins, etc). When players are using PEDs to aid in reaching and passing those historic numbers, people care.
I guess that's my point. So many of those numbers have already been blown out of the water by roided up freaks, that I dont really care anymore. I know what is going on/what happened. If they're "all doing it," which they all are, I'll happily turn a blind eye, ala the NFL, and enjoy watching games.
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Back to some 2013 talk. As exciting as it would be for this board to see the Cubs and Brewers battle it out for the division, it's not happening. I think it's a tough call between Cincy and St. Louis. On paper I think it's the Reds but St. Louis has been defying what was on paper for too long now. Carpenter out the entire year again hurts, but it doesn't ever seem to matter to them. They'll move a guy like Joe Kelly in there and he'll win 14 games.
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See, I think the Brewers are going to surprise and the Reds are going to disappoint. In the end I expect all three in the mix. All will score runs, and I expect the Brewers young rotations to perform far better than people might expect.
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2013 NL Central Champions: Pittsburgh Pirates
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It appears as though Cubs fans are already starting to defect...
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130310/COL03/303100093/Doc-Red-has-special-bond-cancer-patient?nclick_check=1
In all seriousness, it's beneficial to have things put into perspective every once in a while. Whether it's someone from the Reds, Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals... one simply cannot undervalue the importance that professional athletes have in providing that occasional, but necessary, escape when life throws a curve ball. It's reassuring to know that guys like Hannahan still exist in baseball... even if they play for the other team.
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It appears as though Cubs fans are already starting to defect...
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130310/COL03/303100093/Doc-Red-has-special-bond-cancer-patient?nclick_check=1
In all seriousness, it's beneficial to have things put into perspective every once in a while. Whether it's someone from the Reds, Cubs, Brewers, Cardinals... one simply cannot undervalue the importance that professional athletes have in providing that occasional, but necessary, escape when life throws a curve ball. It's reassuring to know that guys like Hannahan still exist in baseball... even if they play for the other team.
That's Paint Touches little brother.
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Luis Gonzalez hit 40 HR above his 10-year average of 16.4 that exact same year and never hit 30 again. Bonds is not as completely exclusive as you make him out to be.
Gonzo looked like he was jacked from footage of him I've seen in the early 2000's (particularly when he hit 57 HR). Most definitely juicing.
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Brewers finally pull the trigger on a stud FA starter. Welcome to Milwaukee, Kyle Lohse...
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21948086/kyle-lohse-to-sign-with-brewers
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Brewers finally pull the trigger on a stud FA starter. Welcome to Milwaukee, Kyle Lohse...
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/21948086/kyle-lohse-to-sign-with-brewers
It's worth a shot for the Brewers. However, the Cardinals know what they're doing and are very successful at understanding that a year too early is better than a year too late. If they didn't want Lohse back, what does that tell you?
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It's worth a shot for the Brewers. However, the Cardinals know what they're doing and are very successful at understanding that a year too early is better than a year too late. If they didn't want Lohse back, what does that tell you?
Certainly not in his prime, though last year was his best. However, it reallytells me that STL is already on the hook for $110M in payroll this year, a large percentage of which is going to Wainright, Garcia, and Westbrook (and Carpenter for that matter).
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As a Cardinal fan I am pretty surprised by how pumped up Brewers fans are about Lohse. He had a very good 2012, and an above average 2011. But if you look back over the course of his career, he's been a pretty middle of the road starter, generally a very solid 3rd or 4th guy in the rotation. I'd rather have both Wainright and Garcia on my roster. I honestly think without the magic of Dave Duncan, Lohse probably wouldn't even be in the majors anymore. He was pretty bad when he got to St. Louis.
Again, not a terrible pick up. But a "stud FA starter?" Hell no.
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I absolutely hate this signing. But then, I loved the Suppan and, to a slightly lesser extent, Wolf signings when those happened; hopefully, I'm going 0 for 3.
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Lohse was a "DNP" for all of 2010-2011 IIRC. Since he returned, he's been pretty studly (30 wins in 2 seasons). And he's better than what the Brew Crew was gonna trot out for their 4th or 5th man. Just what the Brewers need to solidify their rotation right now. I agree, I would be happier with a 1 or 2 year contract, but with their offense and defense (and bullper--fingers crossed), he should be a really good addition to this team for this season at least.
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Even with Lohse, that rotation is a step away from disaster. Who knows.
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Even with Lohse, that rotation is a step away from disaster. Who knows.
Especially when it's a step towards covering home plate on a passed ball with Prince Fielder charging from 3rd.
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The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers, and Lohse has been pretty mediocre throughout his career with the exception of last year.
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The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers,
What exactly is your sample for that declaration?
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What exactly is your sample for that declaration?
Braden Looper, but mostly Jeff Suppan. And it's probably wrong to characterize that one as luck. Suppan was a career-long middling starter who had a great post-season before the Brewers paid him like a no. 2 starter based on that small sample size.
If there is one thing the Brewers can't seem to get enough of, its signing old, soft tossing righties to large contracts.
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The Brewers have terrible luck with Cardinal pitchers, and Lohse has been pretty mediocre throughout his career with the exception of last year.
Everyone us terrible luck with cardinals pitchers - Duncan is a miracle worker. This is a bad signing that will look worse as time goes on. Strategically, think of it this way: the Brewers could have had this signing 45 days ago. Everyone's known that Lohse and Boras were pissing in the wind for well over a month. What has changed for the Brewers since then to make a good deal?
The fact that they whipped out the Bobby Bonilla delayed payments for friggin Kyle Lohse is unreal to me.
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The Brewers did the deal because they are a better team with Lohse today than they were yesterday without him. The contract did not bust their budget. Their payroll this year is now around $84 million, and he fills an immediate hole. Hey, I like the deal. He's being overpaid, but hey, it's not my money.
The reason they didn't do the deal sooner is that Lohse was looking for 5 years for $60 million. They had to wait him out to get to the more palatable numbers that they settled on.
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Bad deal. Probably won't be in the playoffs for the next couple of years... so what is the point?
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More likely to be in the playoffs this year with Lohse than without him. That's the point.
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More likely to be in the playoffs this year with Lohse than without him. That's the point.
I don't disagree that they're marginally better with Lohse than without him (advanced stats say about 2 wins better). But doing deals like this is how you end up with one of the worst farm systems in baseball with little to show for it. And I liked the Greinke and CC deals, and even the Marcum deal. But this Brewers team is not those teams, and to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.
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More likely to be in the playoffs this year with Lohse than without him. That's the point.
While I definitely think they overpaid him, the NL Central is pretty wide open. Take a chance and see what happens.
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I don't disagree that they're marginally better with Lohse than without him (advanced stats say about 2 wins better). But doing deals like this is how you end up with one of the worst farm systems in baseball with little to show for it. And I liked the Greinke and CC deals, and even the Marcum deal. But this Brewers team is not those teams, and to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.
Why did they have to give up their top draft pick? That is the part of this I don't understand.
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I don't disagree that they're marginally better with Lohse than without him (advanced stats say about 2 wins better). But doing deals like this is how you end up with one of the worst farm systems in baseball with little to show for it. And I liked the Greinke and CC deals, and even the Marcum deal. But this Brewers team is not those teams, and to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.
+1. It seems like a move the Bucks would make. They think they are closer than they are this year.
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Why did they have to give up their top draft pick? That is the part of this I don't understand.
I believe Lohse is a Type A free agent.
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Why did they have to give up their top draft pick? That is the part of this I don't understand.
New rules, this is why Lohse was still available.
Money isn't an issue for SP in this league, but giving up a first round pick is an issue.
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OK, looked this up....there are no more Type A free agents...
"Under the terms of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement, the structure has changed. The old Type A and Type B designations are gone. When a player reaches free agency, his former team may make him what is known as a qualifying offer, worth the average amount of the previous season's top 125 salaries -- $13.3 million this offseason.
If the player accepts the offer, again he is considered to be signed to a contract for the next season. If he declines, the team that signs him gives up a Draft pick, while the team losing the player gains one -- though not the same pick.
The signing team gives up a first-round selection, unless it possesses one of the first 10 selections. In that case, the team gives up its next selection after that. The team losing the player, meanwhile, gains a sandwich pick at the end of the first round. This applies as long as the player signs before the start of the next Draft."
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It's worth a shot for the Brewers. However, the Cardinals know what they're doing and are very successful at understanding that a year too early is better than a year too late. If they didn't want Lohse back, what does that tell you?
I think they offered more money per year but only a 2 year deal
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I don't disagree that they're marginally better with Lohse than without him (advanced stats say about 2 wins better). But doing deals like this is how you end up with one of the worst farm systems in baseball with little to show for it. And I liked the Greinke and CC deals, and even the Marcum deal. But this Brewers team is not those teams, and to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.
Of course the Brewers under Doug Melvin have had one of the best farm systems in baseball, so a move like this doesn't really concern me. Nobody is pretending Lohse is a top line starter, nor is he being paid like one, but he obviously strengthens and deepens their rotation. There is every reason to believe they can compete for the division this year. It's the cost of doing business.
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Guess who's back.... back again.... Yuni's back, tell a friend...
(http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb279/sussemilch/2011-july/yune6.gif)
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Of course the Brewers under Doug Melvin have had one of the best farm systems in baseball, so a move like this doesn't really concern me. Nobody is pretending Lohse is a top line starter, nor is he being paid like one, but he obviously strengthens and deepens their rotation. There is every reason to believe they can compete for the division this year. It's the cost of doing business.
We had THE best farm system in the mid '00s after years of terrible teams. At that time, Prince, Rickie, JJ Hardy, Gallardo, Hart, and later Braun were bumping around in the minors. Since they have been called up, we've had no impact players in the farm system, and we still don't (not counting LaPorta, Escobar or Lawrie, who were traded). The likes of Keith Law (ESPN) and John Sickels (great minor league ball blog on SBNation) have ranked us near the bottom of farm system rankings since 2010. And its hard to argue with them given the total lack of help from within our system over that time period.
I also liked the Grienke, Sabathia, and Marcum deals because I felt that they helped a "very close" Brewers team get over the hump and make a playoff run. I don't think the same thing about the Kyle Lohse signing. He's 34 and has been mediocre in his entire career outside of pitching for Dave Duncan, who has turned the likes of friggin' Brad Penny into a serviceable starter for a year. I don't think that Lohse is bad, and grabbing him certainly helps this year. But to give him that money for those years, AND give up the 17th pick AND give the 28th pick to a division rival all to add him to a team that is not too close to making the playoffs is what I do not like.
Perhaps I'm too pessimistic about this years Brewers team. I just don't think they can compete with the Reds and Cards in the division. Here's to proving me wrong, I'll love watching them regardless.
The one argument I've read that I can get behind is that the Brewers have the smallest market in the MLB, and yet they still have been cranking out 2.5-3.0 million in attendance over the last half decade. I think there is a fear that if we are straight up bad for a while, a-la the Rays in the early to mid 2000's to rebuild, we lose those butts in the seats, and all of the revenue that goes with it. Lost revenue which hurts all the more given the small market and not-very-lucrative TV deal that the Brewers have. So we sign guys like Lohse to stay semi-competitive and delay the eventual collapse.
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... to add 2 wins for almost $10mm per year plus deferred payments plus giving your top draft pick was not a wise move.
Considering that the Brewers were 3 wins from making the playoffs last year, it's hard to buy into that logic.
Listen, I don't like the Lohse or the Yuni-B signings at all, but the Brewers aren't in the AL East... they're in a division and league where 1-2 wins is likely going to be the difference between who goes to the postseason and who stays home. If you got a guy who gives you the +2 wins you need to get to the postseason, damn skippy that's worth $10M.
But I wholeheartedly disagree with the adv-stats... on paper, Lohse might say +2 wins; in reality that number is negative IMO.
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Justin Verlander and Buster Posey both get huge multiyear extensions yesterday. Opening night tomorrow night for a few teams. Not in baseball mode yet as I'm still in MU mode of course.
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Considering that the Brewers were 3 wins from making the playoffs last year, it's hard to buy into that logic.
The Brewers ended 5 games behind the final Wild Card spot.
According to Bill James, Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus, etc, Lohse is worth between 0.6 and 3.1 wins: "According to the annual projections offered by Bill James, Lohse could be worth 2.8 wins above replacement level. The ZiPS forecast is more optimistic, projecting Lohse to be worth 3.1 wins. They’re more pessimistic at Baseball Prospectus; BP rates Lohse’s value as 0.6 wins above the replacement level."
Add in Lohse's career numbers at Miller Park, (granted, these are obviously against a good Milwaukee offense), and I don't think he was worth the signing, (especially given the draft pick it cost).
At MP for Lohse: 44 IP, 56 Hits, 34 Runs all earned, 7 HR, 15 BB. 25 K, 6.95 ERA, 1.614 Whip, .890 OPS against.
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The Brewers ended 5 games behind the final Wild Card spot.
According to Bill James, Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus, etc, Lohse is worth between 0.6 and 3.1 wins: "According to the annual projections offered by Bill James, Lohse could be worth 2.8 wins above replacement level. The ZiPS forecast is more optimistic, projecting Lohse to be worth 3.1 wins. They’re more pessimistic at Baseball Prospectus; BP rates Lohse’s value as 0.6 wins above the replacement level."
Add in Lohse's career numbers at Miller Park, (granted, these are obviously against a good Milwaukee offense), and I don't think he was worth the signing, (especially given the draft pick it cost).
At MP for Lohse: 44 IP, 56 Hits, 34 Runs all earned, 7 HR, 15 BB. 25 K, 6.95 ERA, 1.614 Whip, .890 OPS against.
When will Melvin learn that Cardinals leftovers don't work on the Brewers?
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The Brewers ended 5 games behind the final Wild Card spot.
According to Bill James, Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus, etc, Lohse is worth between 0.6 and 3.1 wins: "According to the annual projections offered by Bill James, Lohse could be worth 2.8 wins above replacement level. The ZiPS forecast is more optimistic, projecting Lohse to be worth 3.1 wins. They’re more pessimistic at Baseball Prospectus; BP rates Lohse’s value as 0.6 wins above the replacement level."
Add in Lohse's career numbers at Miller Park, (granted, these are obviously against a good Milwaukee offense), and I don't think he was worth the signing, (especially given the draft pick it cost).
At MP for Lohse: 44 IP, 56 Hits, 34 Runs all earned, 7 HR, 15 BB. 25 K, 6.95 ERA, 1.614 Whip, .890 OPS against.
Thanks for doing the work I was too lazy to do.
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October can't get here fast enough!!
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Go Halos. Looking forward to the season starting.
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The Brewers ended 5 games behind the final Wild Card spot.
According to Bill James, Fangraphs, Baseball Prospectus, etc, Lohse is worth between 0.6 and 3.1 wins: "According to the annual projections offered by Bill James, Lohse could be worth 2.8 wins above replacement level. The ZiPS forecast is more optimistic, projecting Lohse to be worth 3.1 wins. They’re more pessimistic at Baseball Prospectus; BP rates Lohse’s value as 0.6 wins above the replacement level."
Add in Lohse's career numbers at Miller Park, (granted, these are obviously against a good Milwaukee offense), and I don't think he was worth the signing, (especially given the draft pick it cost).
At MP for Lohse: 44 IP, 56 Hits, 34 Runs all earned, 7 HR, 15 BB. 25 K, 6.95 ERA, 1.614 Whip, .890 OPS against.
He won't be pitching against Ryan Braun at MP anymore (and Prince Fielder for many of those innings).
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Not to change the subject, but I went to Minute Maid Park back in 2002 and it was a beautiful stadium. Looking at it now on TV it looks awful. They've nearly covered every square inching advertising.
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Eat more Fowl on the fouls poles. Disgusting.
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Would have put a big pass on Lohse. I understand there's only two or three guys who can go an entire season, but don't understand why you don't see if you're in it in July, if yes, trade for a starter, if no, the one thing the farm system does have is a plethora of potential 4 or 5 starters. Don't like committing $33M plus losing the pick now. Signing Yuni on the other hand I like, simply for laughs.
Not to change the subject, but I went to Minute Maid Park back in 2002 and it was a beautiful stadium. Looking at it now on TV it looks awful. They've nearly covered every square inching advertising.
Haven't been there, but from watching games I can't stand 1) the stupid hill, and 2) right-handed hitters hitting a pop-up to left that always seems to leave the yard.
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Hey! How 'bout those Cubs?
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Not to change the subject, but I went to Minute Maid Park back in 2002 and it was a beautiful stadium. Looking at it now on TV it looks awful. They've nearly covered every square inching advertising.
Well... when you're in the nation's 3rd largest metro area, with a team payroll less than what A-Rod will make this year, I suppose you have to pay the bills somehow.
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http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=330411125
Stupid crap from Carlos Quentin. I am guessing next time he bats against the Dodgers he better wear some extra padding under his jersey.
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Two things Carlos Quentin has always done well:
1.) get hit by pitches (I think he's got 109 career, beating second-place Utley by at least 15)
2.) losing his temper (he could have potentially been the MVP in '08 before he broke his hand in anger following a strikeout)
Quentin broke Grienke's collarbone in the scrum, and then Kemp and Quentin got into in it the parking lot after the game.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/12/benches-clear-after-zack-greinke-drills-carlos-quentin/ (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/12/benches-clear-after-zack-greinke-drills-carlos-quentin/)
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Two things Carlos Quentin has always done well:
1.) get hit by pitches (I think he's got 77 career, beating second-place Utley by at least 15)
2.) losing his temper (he could have potentially been the MVP in '08 before he broke his hand in anger following a strikeout)
97 times HBP since the start of the 2008 season. 116 times in his career.
Quentin claiming that Greinke "said something to him" and if he wouldn't have said something then nothing would have happened. Also claims there is a "documented history" between the 2 going back obviously to Sox and Royals.
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97 times HBP since the start of the 2008 season.
Quentin claiming that Greinke "said something to him" and if he wouldn't have said something then nothing would have happened. Also claims there is a "documented history" between the 2 going back obviously to Sox and Royals.
Said something to him, yes as he was on the way to the mound.
Probably something along the lines of "first base is over there you big dummy."
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Said something to him, yes as he was on the way to the mound.
Probably something along the lines of "first base is over there you big dummy."
He wasn't liked too much by a lot of his teammates when he was with the Sox.
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Charging when hit on the elbow over the plate on a 3-2 count in a tie game. History between them or not, Quentin has shown himself to have a baseball IQ of zero if he thinks it was intentional. Greinke had also allowed a run on a wild pitch earlier in the game.
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A pitched sailed over Kemp's head earlier in the game, and it's possible Quentin thought this was retaliation. I don't think it was, but, that combined with past history, (and Quentin has never seemed like the smartest guy), may have led to the charging.
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Said something to him, yes as he was on the way to the mound.
Probably something along the lines of "first base is over there you big dummy."
Prefaced with a "derrrr" or "duuuuuuh," most likely.
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A pitched sailed over Kemp's head earlier in the game, and it's possible Quentin thought this was retaliation. I don't think it was, but, that combined with past history, (and Quentin has never seemed like the smartest guy), may have led to the charging.
He's very articulate and has a degree from Stanford so I can see why you'd say that.
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Two things Carlos Quentin has always done well:
1.) get hit by pitches (I think he's got 109 career, beating second-place Utley by at least 15)
2.) losing his temper (he could have potentially been the MVP in '08 before he broke his hand in anger following a strikeout)
Quentin broke Grienke's collarbone in the scrum, and then Kemp and Quentin got into in it the parking lot after the game.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/12/benches-clear-after-zack-greinke-drills-carlos-quentin/ (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/12/benches-clear-after-zack-greinke-drills-carlos-quentin/)
Good thing for the Dodgers it got broken up. I feel like Quentin would have put about 300 million in Dodgers on the DL if that escalated.
I think Greinke was throwing at him, I think he has thrown at him before. Quentin gets hit a lot. I would guess he knows when a pitcher is headhunting. It is easy for pitchers to be tough guys from sixty feet six, but you mess with the same guy repeatedly and you have to expect repercussions.
Don't feel sorry for Greinke at all. Got what he deserved in my opinion.
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Good thing for the Dodgers it got broken up. I feel like Quentin would have put about 300 million in Dodgers on the DL if that escalated.
I think Greinke was throwing at him, I think he has thrown at him before. Quentin gets hit a lot. I would guess he knows when a pitcher is headhunting. It is easy for pitchers to be tough guys from sixty feet six, but you mess with the same guy repeatedly and you have to expect repercussions.
Don't feel sorry for Greinke at all. Got what he deserved in my opinion.
This is the silliest post about baseball I've ever seen on Scoop, and there have been some dandies. Regardless of the score, intentionally hitting a guy when the count is 3-2? Uhh, no. If he was meaning to hit someone, he wouldn't wait until the 6th pitch of the at bat to do so. Why give him 5 chances to put a ball into play, then you don't get your chance to hit him? Add onto that that it was a 1 run game when it happens later on in the game and that's just plain stupid baseball. Intentionally put the tying run on first base and bring the winning run to the plate? No. Even if Greinke was the most prideful player in the MLB (and he might be?), that would not be the situation you would plunk a guy.
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This is the silliest post about baseball I've ever seen on Scoop, and there have been some dandies. Regardless of the score, intentionally hitting a guy when the count is 3-2? Uhh, no. If he was meaning to hit someone, he wouldn't wait until the 6th pitch of the at bat to do so. Why give him 5 chances to put a ball into play, then you don't get your chance to hit him? Add onto that that it was a 1 run game when it happens later on in the game and that's just plain stupid baseball. Intentionally put the tying run on first base and bring the winning run to the plate? No. Even if Greinke was the post prideful player in the MLB (and he might be?), that would not be the situation you would plunk a guy.
This. In addition, its no fluke that certain players get hit more than others. If you've watched Quentin through his career, (much like Craig Biggio) he stands in like a statue on a pitches that run in. There is a "skill" (or, at least, the development of some kind of fearlessness or comfort) to wearing a pitch that you could avoid, and he has it.
For those of you who appreciate quantitative analysis: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-quentins-hbp-zone/
"Quentin’s rate of being hit by pitches within six inches of the inside corner is 20 times higher than the Major League average."
He's very good at getting HBP, and for some reason, this one made him snap.
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This. In addition, its no fluke that certain players get hit more than others. If you've watched Quentin through his career, (much like Craig Biggio) he stands in like a statue on a pitches that run in. There is a "skill" (or, at least, the development of some kind of fearlessness or comfort) to wearing a pitch that you could avoid, and he has it.
For those of you who appreciate quantitative analysis: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-quentins-hbp-zone/
"Quentin’s rate of being hit by pitches within six inches of the inside corner is 20 times higher than the Major League average."
He's very good at getting HBP, and for some reason, this one made him snap.
But one pitcher hitting one hitter a lot is a coincidence? Since 2008 Greinke has hit 22 batters. 3 of those re Quentin. Since 2008 (the first time Quentin and Greinke faced off) Greinke hits Carlos Quentin once every 10.3 plate appearances. He hits every other MLB player, once every 226.8 plate appearances. Could that all be due to Quentin? That seems doubtful.
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This is the silliest post about baseball I've ever seen on Scoop, and there have been some dandies. Regardless of the score, intentionally hitting a guy when the count is 3-2? Uhh, no. If he was meaning to hit someone, he wouldn't wait until the 6th pitch of the at bat to do so. Why give him 5 chances to put a ball into play, then you don't get your chance to hit him? Add onto that that it was a 1 run game when it happens later on in the game and that's just plain stupid baseball. Intentionally put the tying run on first base and bring the winning run to the plate? No. Even if Greinke was the most prideful player in the MLB (and he might be?), that would not be the situation you would plunk a guy.
So after watching that pitch run up and in on Quentin, you feel there was a 0% chance Greinke was throwing at Quentin?
Maybe it is a full count, and you're not giving him anything to hit. You have a fairly selective hitter at the plate. Greinke figures it will end in a walk. He hates Quentin. It is absolutely feasible that he threw at him. The first 5 pitches, he was trying to get him out. The last pitch, he was throwing at him.
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He's very articulate and has a degree from Stanford so I can see why you'd say that.
I take that back; it's his hot-headed nature (slamming bats, getting angry with himself), that I was confusing with lack of intelligence. He is a cerebral guy. Articulate I'm not sure about, (he grunts answers to interviews).
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Greinke wouldn't hit him intentionally on a 3-2 count in a tie game, he's smarter than that. He said something to Quentin after he was hit that sparked his anger, not sure what it was though. Greinke probably said something out of anger himself over hitting him, and Quentin took offense.
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Greinke wouldn't hit him intentionally on a 3-2 count in a tie game, he's smarter than that. He said something to Quentin after he was hit that sparked his anger, not sure what it was though. Greinke probably said something out of anger himself over hitting him, and Quentin took offense.
Was thinking the same thing, as he did that on numerous occasions with the Brewers, including after hitting batters. But at the same time, Quentin took a couple steps out towards the mound and probably wouldn't have charged the mound if Greinke hadn't said anything, but Greinke probably said something about him needing to get his ass to first base or something. And I don't put that on Greinke at all. If Greinke said nothing at all then Quentin just takes a few steps towards the mound and then walks to first, but by taking those steps towards the mound he made it impossible for Greinke NOT to say something.
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I'd be cool with the Crew tanking it and playing the young guys...except besides a slew of potential 4/5 starters they have no talented young guys in the farm. Just brutal watching the past few games.
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I'd be cool with the Crew tanking it and playing the young guys...except besides a slew of potential 4/5 starters they have no talented young guys in the farm. Just brutal watching the past few games.
I like that first baseman Hunter Morris, as well as second baseman Scooter Gennett.
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I'd be cool with the Crew tanking it and playing the young guys...except besides a slew of potential 4/5 starters they have no talented young guys in the farm. Just brutal watching the past few games.
Dude, its April 14th.
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And the Brewers incredible April continues...
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22083987/undefined
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Been awhile since anyone's posted on here, so I'll sum up some things.
Greinke was at the heart of another brawl a few eeks ago, this time between the LAD and Arizona. Ian Kennedy first hit Yasiel Puig, grazing his face. Greinke must've taken offense and hit Montero his next time up, which led to Kennedy hitting Greinke with a fastball which nearly hit him in the head. Big brawl broke out after that, with a bunch of suspensions being given.
Speaking of Puig, he's been off to an amazing start and already has 7 homers with a .420 BA through only 21 games.
The Brewers are playing better but continue to struggle overall, still 11 games under .500. Took a look at their farm system out of curiosity and it is GARBAGE. Almost all top pitching and positional prospects are playing bad. The Brewers may have the worst farm system in baseball. Only top 100 prospect according to MLB.com is Thornburg at #97, and he is 0-9 at Triple A.
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The Brewers may have the worst farm system in baseball.
Thanks to the genius Kenny Williams the White Sox have the worst farm system in baseball.
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Thanks to the genius Kenny Williams the White Sox have the worst farm system in baseball.
I forgot about the White Sox, and you're right. I'll say the Brewers are bottom 3 though.
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If the Brewers can find a taker for Lohse, it'll be interesting to see what they get in return. Will it be more than the slot value of the pick they lost + enough to overcome giving a top pick to the top farm system within the division? It'll probably depend how you value the competitive detriment of giving that pick to the Cards.
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If the Brewers can find a taker for Lohse, it'll be interesting to see what they get in return. Will it be more than the slot value of the pick they lost + enough to overcome giving a top pick to the top farm system within the division? It'll probably depend how you value the competitive detriment of giving that pick to the Cards.
This is why it was really a low-risk signing. They'll be able to flip him no problem, and will likely get a near MLB ready player back in return, which for my money, is better than a number 1 pick. Obviously forfeiting that pick to the competition is the downside, but as far as impact on their own system/roster goes it Is more likely a positive, because they are likely going to end up getting much more of a known quantity vs. a draft pick.
ARam and maybe even k-rod are also looking highly tradable.
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Thanks to the genius Kenny Williams the White Sox have the worst farm system in baseball.
As a White Sox fan, I regrettably agree. This year, hopefully new GM Hahn will replenish the farm system by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and possibly Konerko and Dunn.
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As a White Sox fan, I regrettably agree. This year, hopefully new GM Hahn will replenish the farm system by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and possibly Konerko and Dunn.
And the error machine called Alexei Ramirez.
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As a White Sox fan, I regrettably agree. This year, hopefully new GM Hahn will replenish the farm system by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and possibly Konerko and Dunn.
And the error machine called Alexei Ramirez.
The Sox would get something back for those guys but not enough to come anywhere close to replenishing the farm system.
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The Score is reporting the entire Sox roster is up for sale except for Sale and Konerko.
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The Score is reporting the entire Sox roster is up for sale except for Sale and Konerko.
As a White Sox fan I love it! Reinsdorf would never trade Konerko.
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Unless Detroit collectively grows a set, Cleveland is going to win the central. Right now, Detroit is incapable of getting a clutch hit, getting a big out, or making the big defensive play. Two hitters on the team are driving in runs, the bullpen is leaky. Francona has the Indians playing loose and is getting the most out of his talent. Now that Raburn is no longer the whipping boy for everything that went wrong in Detroit up to and including Hoffa, it turns out he is a decent hitter. Cleveland has the momentum right now and Detroit has feet of clay. 80 games to get it sorted out.
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Unless Detroit collectively grows a set, Cleveland is going to win the central. Right now, Detroit is incapable of getting a clutch hit, getting a big out, or making the big defensive play. Two hitters on the team are driving in runs, the bullpen is leaky. Francona has the Indians playing loose and is getting the most out of his talent. Now that Raburn is no longer the whipping boy for everything that went wrong in Detroit up to and including Hoffa, it turns out he is a decent hitter. Cleveland has the momentum right now and Detroit has feet of clay. 80 games to get it sorted out.
The battle of maybe the two worst cities in America.
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The battle of maybe the two worst cities in America.
Cleveland not nearly as bad
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As a White Sox fan, I regrettably agree. This year, hopefully new GM Hahn will replenish the farm system by trading Peavy, Thornton, Crain and possibly Konerko and Dunn.
You missed their biggest trade chips. Rios and Ramirez.
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You missed their biggest trade chips. Rios and Ramirez.
Back up the truck.
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The Sox would get something back for those guys but not enough to come anywhere close to replenishing the farm system.
I don't actually think their farm system is as bad as advertised. AAA is just about a wasteland. The only guys they have there are a C -- Josh Phegley who is hitting .317 with a .967 OPS. And Andre Rienzo. He started the season horribly but has turned it on his last 7-8 starts.
They have some interesting OFers at AA Trayce Thompson (brother of Warrior Mychael Thompson), and Keeynan Walker, though Walker is having a bad season. They have some great arms at AA, in Erik Johnson (8-2 2.23 ERA, close to 1 K/9 and sub 1 WHIP, throws 96 -- he was just promoted to AAA) Nick McCully is having a great season, though he does not have the pedigree that Johnson does. They also have a host of solid arms for the bullpen there.
Everyone else is too far away to consider, but one guy needs to be mentioned, Micah Johnson, a 2B at Kannapolis, he is hitting .342, but already has 61 steals. Yikes!
Also remember that the Sox farm system was called the worst in baseball before last season, then guys from that worst farm system made major contributions. See, Jose Quintana, Addison Reed, Nate Jones, Dylan Axelrod and Hector Santiago. Maybe not superstars, but major contributors for sure.
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:o
Not to change the subject but I'm watching the Puig segment on SC and I noticed the Dodgers have a new road uni where Los Angeles is written out in script a la Dodgers/Brooklyn. Looks strange. when did they switch to that look?
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Not to change the subject but I'm watching the Puig segment on SC and I noticed the Dodgers have a new road uni where Los Angeles is written out in script a la Dodgers/Brooklyn. Looks strange. when did they switch to that look?
I don't care for the doyers, so I don't follow them much, but I believe they went to that look quite awhile ago...years.
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I don't care for the doyers, so I don't follow them much, but I believe they went to that look quite awhile ago...years.
Oh well, shows what I know. Being an O's fan and living in Seattle I don't get much chance to see the senior circuit. I really don't care for that new road uni. The simple Dodgers script is a classic look. I especially like the red number on the front. A rather deft touch, actually. I should have guessed that you being an OC guy you would follow the Halos.
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Oh well, shows what I know. Being an O's fan and living in Seattle I don't get much chance to see the senior circuit. I really don't care for that new road uni. The simple Dodgers script is a classic look. I especially like the red number on the front. A rather deft touch, actually. I should have guessed that you being an OC guy you would follow the Halos.
Looks like 1999
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/history/uniforms_logos.jsp
I follow the Halos for two reasons. My family is close to Mike Scioscia...my mom taught all his kids in Catholic grade school. Second, I used to work for the Halos, ironically during the era when Terry Collins was the manager, followed by Joe Madden and then Mike Scioscia...so that was a huge delight when Mike became the manager. Class act all the way around.
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Looks like 1999
http://losangeles.dodgers.mlb.com/la/history/uniforms_logos.jsp
I follow the Halos for two reasons. My family is close to Mike Scioscia...my mom taught all his kids in Catholic grade school. Second, I used to work for the Halos, ironically during the era when Terry Collins was the manager, followed by Joe Madden and then Mike Scioscia...so that was a huge delight when Mike became the manager. Class act all the way around.
Hell, nice find. I had never noticed the uni change. I still prefer the classic look. I am guessing MLB didn't like it for some obtuse reason.
I have never liked the Halos. They were irrelevant until Autry bought them and I didn't like the way he and Steinbrenner upset the economics of MLB. It used to be that market size was not a significant factor in competitiveness. Cities like KC, Pittsburgh, and Milwaukee fielded highly competitive squads but the economic reality of baseball has shifted toward manifest imbalance. Of course location plays into those decisions; when LA signed Don Stanhouse away from the O's he said the reason was women, women, and women.
I have always liked Scioscia as he seems like a stellar gent. Of course I base that only on observing his demeanor during games and interviews but he is the antithesis to Kirk Gibson. He's been the Angels' Skipper forever now.
I remember a story about when Scioscia got called up and replaced Yeager. Yeager complained to Lasorda that he was the better player because Scioscia couldn't hit. Yeager accused Lasorda of starting Scioscia because Scioscia was from Little Italy in Philly. Lasorda replied that was BS. He told Yeager he started Scoiscia because he, Lasorda, was from Little Italy in Philly.
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You know it is a serious list when UT-Arlington is on it.
His parents want him to play close to home. He is not going to come to Milwaukee.
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I don't actually think their farm system is as bad as advertised. AAA is just about a wasteland.
AAA, as far as the Sox system, is not usually stacked. They are mostly guys who are not going to make it and it is pretty much the same in most organIzations. AA are where the studs are at especially in the Soxes system.
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Article on the Brewers, their meager farm system, and troubled future.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/67678/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-milwaukee-brewers
Hypothesis is that the downfall started when Jack Zduriencik left.
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I remember a story about when Scioscia got called up and replaced Yeager. Yeager complained to Lasorda that he was the better player because Scioscia couldn't hit. Yeager accused Lasorda of starting Scioscia because Scioscia was from Little Italy in Philly. Lasorda replied that was BS. He told Yeager he started Scoiscia because he, Lasorda, was from Little Italy in Philly.
A few hours with Mike is pretty awesome. He comes across as very measured and reserved on television, but he can spin a yarn of baseball stories. It's pretty awesome. Here is Chico's mom and him on the field last year as I surprised her when she flew in and we went to a game. She hadn't seen him or Anne (his wife) in about 5 years. He's a delight. Went to the game last night....a ton of fun and great 9th inning. Go Halos (tough season, hope to get it going)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/318150_4227108359244_355743138_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533393_4227109039261_1139795597_n.jpg)
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She needs a new jersey.
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Article on the Brewers, their meager farm system, and troubled future.
http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/67678/the-rise-and-fall-of-the-milwaukee-brewers
Hypothesis is that the downfall started when Jack Zduriencik left.
No question losing Jack Z. and several others hurt, and there is no question that this season is one of those years where nothing has gone right. I also thinks they have drafted too much on need - pitching - which seems to be such a crapshoot. All of that said, they're still likely to continue to get 3 million through the door every year, and have a pretty solid core of young position players that can build around in Braun, Segura, Gomez, LuCroy, Aioke. Pitching is obviously a huge issue, but I love the idea of trading Gallardo, KRod, Lohse, etc. for some top pitching prospects, and you can probably be competitive again in fairly short order - especially as payroll decreases, and they gain the ability to fill in with free agents. Do they have the baseball men under Melvin to get it done? We're gonna find out.
I also thinking is just too easy to overlook the losses they've suffered, for which there just is no equal replacement. They lost a Cy Young pitcher, and HoF player in Fielder, (and immediately lost his replacement, and the team's top prospect to injury (two years in a row)). Teams like the Cardinals are extremely unique in their ability to recover from losses like that.
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No question losing Jack Z. and several others hurt, and there is no question that this season is one of those years where nothing has gone right. I also thinks they have drafted too much on need - pitching - which seems to be such a crapshoot. All of that said, they're still likely to continue to get 3 million through the door every year, and have a pretty solid core of young position players that can build around in Braun, Segura, Gomez, LuCroy, Aioke. Pitching is obviously a huge issue, but I love the idea of trading Gallardo, KRod, Lohse, etc. for some top pitching prospects, and you can probably be competitive again in fairly short order - especially as payroll decreases, and they gain the ability to fill in with free agents. Do they have the baseball men under Melvin to get it done? We're gonna find out.
I also thinking is just too easy to overlook the losses they've suffered, for which there just is no equal replacement. They lost a Cy Young pitcher, and HoF player in Fielder, (and immediately lost his replacement, and the team's top prospect to injury (two years in a row)). Teams like the Cardinals are extremely unique in their ability to recover from losses like that.
John Schuerholz once said that his strategy for building a winner was to first, draft a room full of pitchers and second, draft a room full of pitchers. Bottom line: Crapshoot or not, you should never worry about having too much pitching.
Gallardo, K-Rod and Lohse should all be traded but you may want to temper your expectations on what the Brewers would get in return. K-Rod and Lohse aren't going to bring back and top-level prospects and Gallardo is having the worst season of his career.
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She needs a new jersey.
;D Yeah, I need to get her a new one this year... Torii one of our all-time favorites. Hell, my wife wore her Adam Kennedy jersey last night and my daughter her Vlad Guerrero jersey. Looks like I need to get them all some new duds.
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;D Yeah, I need to get her a new one this year... Torii one of our all-time favorites. Hell, my wife wore her Adam Kennedy jersey last night and my daughter her Vlad Guerrero jersey. Looks like I need to get them all some new duds.
That's why you need to go with throwbacks. They never become outdated. Stay away from the big name/HOFers though. An old school California Angels Jim Abbott, Bobby Grich or Mark Langston jersey would suffice.
;)
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A few hours with Mike is pretty awesome. He comes across as very measured and reserved on television, but he can spin a yarn of baseball stories. It's pretty awesome. Here is Chico's mom and him on the field last year as I surprised her when she flew in and we went to a game. She hadn't seen him or Anne (his wife) in about 5 years. He's a delight. Went to the game last night....a ton of fun and great 9th inning. Go Halos (tough season, hope to get it going)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/318150_4227108359244_355743138_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533393_4227109039261_1139795597_n.jpg)
Not a big fan of the "adult dressed in pro sports jersey" look. Like your Mom's Asics, though. Is she a runner?
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That's why you need to go with throwbacks. They never become outdated. Stay away from the big name/HOFers though. An old school California Angels Jim Abbott, Bobby Grich or Mark Langston jersey would suffice.
;)
Grich was at the game last night...he has really aged. Langston still looks good, doing color commentary on the radio the last two years. Abbot is great..first class human being. I have a Nolan Ryan Cal Angels jersey in my office. Still kills me about the naming, but Arte is a businessman and I can tell you first hand when I worked for the Anaheim Angels it was a tougher sell to advertisers, etc. Too many people out there don't get what "Anaheim" is and it sounds smallish in their minds. I get why he changed it, even though it sounds ridiculous.
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We sport the jerseys here, what can I say. Hard to go to a hockey game these days without a jersey and the same deal here in So. Cal for baseball. Not sure how it is in Chicago. I do here you, however. I used to hate it, but it kind of grew on me to be honest.
No, mom is definitely not a runner anymore. She has her share of health issues that prevent that. She's active, but in a slow, methodical way. Elevating her heart rate has led to a few trips to the hospital in the last few years so she stays within herself.
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We sport the jerseys here, what can I say. Hard to go to a hockey game these days without a jersey and the same deal here in So. Cal for baseball. Not sure how it is in Chicago. I do here you, however. I used to hate it, but it kind of grew on me to be honest.
No, mom is definitely not a runner anymore. She has her share of health issues that prevent that. She's active, but in a slow, methodical way. Elevating her heart rate has led to a few trips to the hospital in the last few years so she stays within herself.
At hockey games in Chicago "sweaters" are the rule, not the exception. Common but not "required" at other sporting events. My boys wear them, my girls don't yet though it wouldn't surprise me in the future. I would feel foolish (at least initially) but I'm sure I'd get over it.
Sorry about your Mom's health issues - she looks very fit, which makes dealing with them easier.
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A few hours with Mike is pretty awesome. He comes across as very measured and reserved on television, but he can spin a yarn of baseball stories. It's pretty awesome. Here is Chico's mom and him on the field last year as I surprised her when she flew in and we went to a game. She hadn't seen him or Anne (his wife) in about 5 years. He's a delight. Went to the game last night....a ton of fun and great 9th inning. Go Halos (tough season, hope to get it going)
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/318150_4227108359244_355743138_n.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533393_4227109039261_1139795597_n.jpg)
Say, how can that be Chico's mom?? That's Hoopaloop's mother!
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Spare crowd, hey? If Mother Chicos can play first base, the Brewers could use some help there.
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Spare crowd, hey? If Mother Chicos can play first base, the Brewers could use some help there.
Actually, she looks like a pretty tough gal. I'll bet she can still play some ball.
And if you notice, Scioscia is listening to her every word. She has the man's attention.
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Actually, she looks like a pretty tough gal. I'll bet she can still play some ball.
And if you notice, Scioscia is listening to her every word. She has the man's attention.
So. Cal teacher of the year in the 1990's and repeated that in Colorado. 40 years as a Catholic school teacher...Mike's a good Catholic, he knows when to listen to the teacher. :)
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Sorry about your Mom's health issues - she looks very fit, which makes dealing with them easier.
She's doing fine...thank you. As long she doesn't exert herself too much, she's good. Appreciate the warm thoughts.
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;D Yeah, I need to get her a new one this year... Torii one of our all-time favorites. Hell, my wife wore her Adam Kennedy jersey last night and my daughter her Vlad Guerrero jersey. Looks like I need to get them all some new duds.
We still love Torii in Minnesota. Can't believe he's almost 38. The power seems to be dwindling, but at least he's hitting for average and knocking doubles around (albeit for the kitties).
Still have the first ball I got at a California game. Foul ball, pitch from Donnie Moore :/
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Still have the first ball I got at a California game. Foul ball, pitch from Donnie Moore :/
Donnie Moore. If memory serves he was a murder-suicide. Shot his wife then himself. He is the biggest goat in Halos' history. Moore came in for the Angels against the Red Sox with an opportunity to close out the game to win the pennant. The Angels were 1 strike away when Moore gave up a dinger to Hendu and the Sox went on to lose to the Mets (the Buckner Series.)
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We still love Torii in Minnesota. Can't believe he's almost 38. The power seems to be dwindling, but at least he's hitting for average and knocking doubles around (albeit for the kitties).
Still have the first ball I got at a California game. Foul ball, pitch from Donnie Moore :/
His enthusiasm is infectious. A great, great leader. Solid ball player, defensive whiz with an arm to knock your socks off. One of the best smiles I have ever seen. Miss him. Class act.
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Donnie Moore. If memory serves he was a murder-suicide. Shot his wife then himself. He is the biggest goat in Halos' history. Moore came in for the Angels against the Red Sox with an opportunity to close out the game to win the pennant. The Angels were 1 strike away when Moore gave up a dinger to Hendu and the Sox went on to lose to the Mets (the Buckner Series.)
Correct, though what most people forget is the Halos actually tied the game in the bottom of the 9th. People also forget it was 5-2 going into the 9th inning that day. Witt gave up a 2 run homer with 1 out to make it 5-4. With 2 outs in the 9th, Gene Mauch lifted Witt for Lucas who hit catcher Rich Gedman in the arm. It was the first hit batter for Lucas in 4 years. Then Moore gave up the 2 run homer to Henderson. 4 runs given up in the top of the 9th. In the bottom of the 9th, not only did the Halos tie it up, but they also loaded the bases with one out. They couldn't get in the 2nd run.
He took his life for other reasons.....people forget all that happened in that game and he was hardly the goat, but that's what people made him out to be.
That was the Angels way, we never won anything. In 2002 when we won it all, it was unbelievable. We had never even won a series before that in the playoffs. I was at games 6 and 7 of the WS as well as games for the Yankees and Twins playoffs. Grown men crying and hugging....it was one of those times you just had to be there because we always lost even when we were good. Game 6 is still the most important sporting event I went to in my life and I've had the privilege of going to Final Fours, Super Bowls, World Series, Stanley Cup Finals, Olympics, World Cup, etc...game 6 from the 7th inning on I will never forget....I had a vested interest which is a big reason, but I've also never been in a stadium where the stadium shook to such extremes it felt like it would collapse. It was insane trailing 5-0 in the 7th and to rally and win that game 6-5 and force a game 7 (which the Halos won) still gives me goosebumps many years later. I'll take it to my grave...that and the Final Four win against Kentucky and a few others have been the pinnacle for me.
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We still love Torii in Minnesota. Can't believe he's almost 38. The power seems to be dwindling, but at least he's hitting for average and knocking doubles around (albeit for the kitties).
Still have the first ball I got at a California game. Foul ball, pitch from Donnie Moore :/
As a Sox fan, my team has been beaten single handedly by Hunter more than anyone else. Most Sox fans I know (myself included) love the guy and were bummed out when the Angels stole him from Kenny's grasp. Great player, plays hard, plays the right way, plays tough. Just a great player.
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AAA, as far as the Sox system, is not usually stacked. They are mostly guys who are not going to make it and it is pretty much the same in most organIzations. AA are where the studs are at especially in the Soxes system.
Josh Phegley has been promoted and already looks better than the mess the team has had at catcher this season. Erik Johnson has been stellar since his promotion to Charlotte. He may be the next starter called up in case of injury or trade.
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Leyland/Tigers being punks again. Barely glanced over fat boy's shoulder.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/pitches_gif.gif)
Hey, I figured it out...pat on the back.
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Leyland/Tigers being punks again. Barely glanced over fat boy's shoulder.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/pitches_gif.gif)
Hey, I figured it out...pat on the back.
And before you doubt me.......look at Sale's face after the pitch and where the catcher's glove is.
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Leyland/Tigers being punks again. Barely glanced over fat boy's shoulder.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/pitches_gif.gif)
Hey, I figured it out...pat on the back.
Hopefully Ramirez doesn't have to spend any time on the DL after taking a fastball to the shadow. ::)
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Leyland/Tigers being punks again. Barely glanced over fat boy's shoulder.
(http://www.csnchicago.com/sites/csnchicago/files/pitches_gif.gif)
Hey, I figured it out...pat on the back.
Another reason why it will be so great if Detroit fails to win the WS again.
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I can't watch the game here but was wondering what score/inning/circumstances when fat boy was supposedly thrown at?
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Hopefully Ramirez doesn't have to spend any time on the DL after taking a fastball to the shadow. ::)
He threw at him and missed completely behind him so what it your point?
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Cabrera hit a home run, the next pitch buzzed Fielder under his chins. I'm glad Pitkonen (sp?) threw behind the batter, I'm glad Leyland raised hell. At least it showed a little passion. Getting tired of pitchers throwing at Cabrera and Fielder. And so is Leyland. I have been watching the Tigers for 40 years and I have never seen so many pitches buzzing the tower. And this is the first year I have ever seen the Tigers pitchers retaliating.
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Cabrera hit a home run, the next pitch buzzed Fielder under his chins. I'm glad Pitkonen (sp?) threw behind the batter, I'm glad Leyland raised hell. At least it showed a little passion. Getting tired of pitchers throwing at Cabrera and Fielder. And so is Leyland. I have been watching the Tigers for 40 years and I have never seen so many pitches buzzing the tower. And this is the first year I have ever seen the Tigers pitchers retaliating.
Believe me Sale does not throw at batters. I know it for a fact.
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And Putkonen clearly throws behind batters, not at them, so what's the big deal?
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Sale probably threw at Fielder, it was right after a Cabrera home run. Putkonen threw behind Alexei soon after Phegley hit his slam. I don't think it is a big deal in any regard. That is just baseball no one got hit, not one got hurt. Personally I think Sale's pitch was a bit too high if it was a message pitch.
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Cabrera hit a home run, the next pitch buzzed Fielder under his chins. I'm glad Pitkonen (sp?) threw behind the batter, I'm glad Leyland raised hell. At least it showed a little passion. Getting tired of pitchers throwing at Cabrera and Fielder. And so is Leyland. I have been watching the Tigers for 40 years and I have never seen so many pitches buzzing the tower. And this is the first year I have ever seen the Tigers pitchers retaliating.
The reason Leyland thew a fit is because his pitcher was ejected and Ramirez was not.
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I wish the Halos could play Detroit all the time. 6-0 against Detroit (9 straight back to last season)....pretty crappy against everyone else. But Puig didn't make it today, so that makes me happy.
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Honestly doesn't much matter if he threw at him intentionally or not. WhenFielder was with the Brewers, he and Braun (and the Brewers in general) led the league in HBP by a wide margin if I remember correctly. Sometimes intentional, sometimes not. If its a one time thing, fine, but when it happens as often as it does, and one comes under Fielders chin like that, perfectly appropriate to throw at someone in retaliation. If you're gonna come inside, you better be able to control it.
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Leyland/Tigers being punks again. Barely glanced over fat boy's shoulder.
Fat boy? Really?
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Honestly doesn't much matter if he threw at him intentionally or not. WhenFielder was with the Brewers, he and Braun (and the Brewers in general) led the league in HBP by a wide margin if I remember correctly. Sometimes intentional, sometimes not. If its a one time thing, fine, but when it happens as often as it does, and one comes under Fielders chin like that, perfectly appropriate to throw at someone in retaliation. If you're gonna come inside, you better be able to control it.
Completely agree.
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The Sox have started unloading players. Thornton to Boston for an AA (just recently promoted) Of-er.
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Did anyone see Aaron Hicks throw out Vernon Wells? Holy Crap what a throw.
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/07/13/aaron-hicks-makes-the-throw-of-the-year-to-catch-vernon-wells-trying-to-leg-out-a-triple-video/
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Did anyone see Aaron Hicks throw out Vernon Wells? Holy Crap what a throw.
http://www.thebiglead.com/index.php/2013/07/13/aaron-hicks-makes-the-throw-of-the-year-to-catch-vernon-wells-trying-to-leg-out-a-triple-video/
Yeah that was incredible. It's weird because the height the ball reaches seems like it would suggest the ball wouldn't be able to travel the distance that it did.
Also, Lincecum with 13 Ks in a no-no. Just about as dominant as you can get.
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http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=9500252
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Duplicate post to chicos. My bad.
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"There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked," Braun said, "that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened."
-Ryan Braun 2/29/2012
I think he owes Dino Laurenzi an apology.
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"There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked," Braun said, "that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened."
-Ryan Braun 2/29/2012
I think he owes Dino Laurenzi an apology.
I completely agree. Glad he is exposed and suspended.
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Wades and Naivin?
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Can we all now agree than O.J. is guilty too?
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I think he owes Dino Laurenzi an apology.
I don't agree with that. He should have won his arbitration case. Yeah, he got off on a technicality, but it was Laurenzi's fault that he got off.
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I completely agree. Glad he is exposed and suspended.
Have said before any of this ever came out that I would've been more surprised if he hadn't juiced with ARod when he was at The U and ARod was working out there in the offseason. Am more surprised by professional athletes who don't juice, if there is such a thing. Maybe now the younger generation of players is clean. Doubt even that though.
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Clearly MLB had a lot more on Braun than he (and his lawyers) initially believed.
65 games is something, but it's not enough. He would have got 50 had he not gotten off on a technicality but then he lied about it, ripped MLB's drug policy, falsley proclaimed his innocence and attempted to ruin an innocent man's life. Give him 162 games, at least. Actually, I'm a firm believe that if a player violates MLB's drug policy, he should be required to re-pay his organization all of the money that they've paid him as a Major Leaguer. Think that would be a deterrent?
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I don't agree with that. He should have won his arbitration case. Yeah, he got off on a technicality, but it was Laurenzi's fault that he got off.
But he didn't need to call him out and blame him for the test coming up positive.
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I suppose it's more like 90 games, given a month on the DL for a sore finger that was mostly spent trying to escape, then eventually mitigate this. Seems it's the "white flag" Brewers fans were wishing he'd throw in a couple months ago since the season was lost already.
I'm a firm believe that if a player violates MLB's drug policy, he should be required to re-pay his organization all of the money that they've paid him as a Major Leaguer. Think that would be a deterrent?
What should be and isn't enforceable (confirmed already in this case and previously by the Yankees/A-Rod) is the inability for a team to void the contract of a player. Unless everything he's ever done is completely due to PEDs, Braun's contract is likely still below market for his ability, but a small market organization relies on huge commitments like this for marketability as much as to put up big numbers. Think a few fans might decide not to come to the park now, and even more will not bother to buy a certain player's jersey?
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I don't agree with that. He should have won his arbitration case. Yeah, he got off on a technicality, but it was Laurenzi's fault that he got off.
It wasn't entirely Laurenzi's fault since he followed the procedure that was laid out by his company. And I understand that Braun's argument was completely valid in court, but Braun didn't present his innocence as a technicality, instead he essentially attacked the Laurenzi.
“We spoke to biochemists and scientists, and asked them how difficult it would be for someone to taint the sample. They said, if they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.”
I think there is serious implication in multiple quotes.
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Wades and Naivin?
What?
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65 games is something, but it's not enough. He would have got 50 had he not gotten off on a technicality but then he lied about it, ripped MLB's drug policy, falsley proclaimed his innocence and attempted to ruin an innocent man's life.
Well, at least you're looking at it objectively. Not only is Braun a PED user, but he's also as malicious as the day is long.
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Think a few fans might decide not to come to the park now, and even more will not bother to buy a certain player's jersey?
Maybe a few, but I honestly believe most people don't really care. They like to say they do, but when push comes to shove, they just want their baseball. Whether they admit It or not, everybody knows Braunis far from the only one, but ballparks were packed all over the country tonight (except Miami of course).
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Can we all now agree than O.J. is guilty too?
(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/349/990/304.gif)
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Well, at least you're looking at it objectively. Not only is Braun a PED user, but he's also as malicious as the day is long.
He accused Dino of tampering with his sample all while knowing that he didn't. You don't have a problem with that? That's a pretty low move if you ask me.
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Have said before any of this ever came out that I would've been more surprised if he hadn't juiced with ARod when he was at The U and ARod was working out there in the offseason. Am more surprised by professional athletes who don't juice, if there is such a thing. Maybe now the younger generation of players is clean. Doubt even that though.
Maybe a few, but I honestly believe most people don't really care. They like to say they do, but when push comes to shove, they just want their baseball. Whether they admit It or not, everybody knows Braunis far from the only one, but ballparks were packed all over the country tonight (except Miami of course).
Pretty much what's to be expected from the Braun apologists: "Everyone else is doing it too."
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Actually, I'm a firm believe that if a player violates MLB's drug policy, he should be required to re-pay his organization all of the money that they've paid him as a Major Leaguer. Think that would be a deterrent?
LOL but where are they going to come up with the money to re-pay every $$$.
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LOL but where are they going to come up with the money to re-pay every $$$.
That's the point. Basically, if you get caught cheating, you become homeless ;)
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Pretty much what's to be expected from the Braun apologists: "Everyone else is doing it too."
They are, and I don't care about the others any more than I do about Braun. How exactly does that make me an apologist? Unless of course you are suggesting that Braun is the only one.
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As if I wrote it myself...
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2013-07-22/ryan-braun-suspension-biogenesis-peds-mlb-brewers-barry-bonds (http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2013-07-22/ryan-braun-suspension-biogenesis-peds-mlb-brewers-barry-bonds)
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They are, and I don't care about the others any more than I do about Braun. How exactly does that make me an apologist? Unless of course you are suggesting that Braun is the only one.
I think your stance on the issue is fine.
There is no way for us to go back in time to see how you felt about Sosa hitting 60+ homers. If you were cool with Sammy, McGuire, and you consider Bonds the all-time home run king, then that's cool.
If you didn't like the other guys doing steroids, then you can't give Braun a pass (IMO).
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It wasn't entirely Laurenzi's fault since he followed the procedure that was laid out by his company. And I understand that Braun's argument was completely valid in court, but Braun didn't present his innocence as a technicality, instead he essentially attacked the Laurenzi.
“We spoke to biochemists and scientists, and asked them how difficult it would be for someone to taint the sample. They said, if they were motivated, it would be extremely easy.”
I think there is serious implication in multiple quotes.
No he was stating the case for why chain of custody is important. Laurenzi's a big boy...he can handle it.
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"There were a lot of things that we learned about the collector, about the collection process, about the way that the entire thing worked," Braun said, "that made us very concerned and very suspicious about what could have actually happened."
-Ryan Braun 2/29/2012
I think he owes Dino Laurenzi an apology.
Yep, so do a lot of brewer fans.
It is hilarious to think about the number of people who thought that 'giving someone the benefit of the doubt' meant believing that synthetic substances can magically appear in a tamperproof cup, sealed in a tamperproof bag, stored in a tamperproof box.
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No he was stating the case for why chain of custody is important. Laurenzi's a big boy...he can handle it.
Handle it? He got fired. He had a career that he was proud of.
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I think your stance on the issue is fine.
There is no way for us to go back in time to see how you felt about Sosa hitting 60+ homers. If you were cool with Sammy, McGuire, and you consider Bonds the all-time home run king, then that's cool.
If you didn't like the other guys doing steroids, then you can't give Braun a pass (IMO).
In the interest of full disclosure and honesty, I did/do view those guys and the other roided up freaks of that era just a little differently (kinda like the NFL players of today - those reveling in this Braun suspension, may want to choose their words carefully, as they are coming to an NFL stadium near you before long. To your point). Where that was about HGH, etc. and getting as big and strong as possible, I view the PED use of today more about recovery, staying on the field, etc. which I still think is very widespread. I understand that may be a difference without a distinction, and I have acknowledged, perhaps in this very thread, that it is admittedly difficult to reconcile, but its how I feel. All of that said, i dont even much care about those guys anymore. I guess I'm not too into the whole "Home Run King" or other things like that (in all honesty I really did not understand the fascination with the Sosa-MacGuire home run battle while it was going on.). I know Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, etc. we're the best players of all time. That's good enough for me. Robin Yount and George Brett were two of my all time favorites (but what do we not know about them?).
Fact is, I view much of this as feigned indignation. I am not going to buy into it because I didn't doubt it was going on all along, and when I am at Miller Park tonight, I don't doubt that there will players on both teams doing the same thing. I just don't care. The game is the same. I want my baseball (and football, and basketball). Is there a more messed up organization than the NCAA? Yet we all flood into the Bradly Center and are glued to the TV when MU plays, and then pretend to be outraged when coaches/players are shown to be scum bags, violations are exposed, etc. I know what's going on, and I readily admit that I provide tacit endorsement with my dollars, and have absolutely no right to criticize after the stuff becomes public knowledge, or try to pretend I didn't know what was happening.
If you want to criticize Braun for strong public denials, etc. when he knew what he was doing, that's fair, but even then, an athlete that didn't turn out to be the guy the public built him up to be? There's a shock. I don't hold them in particularly high esteem to begin with, so its hard to be disappointed. I guess it's times like these that my healthy (or unhealthy) cynicism pays off.
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Handle it? He got fired. He had a career that he was proud of.
Completely incorrect. He is collecting samples for other teams this very day. The only guy who got fired was the arbitrator, even though MLB subsequently made changes to correct the errors that he correctly found were made in the Braun case.
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Yep, so do a lot of brewer fans.
It is hilarious to think about the number of people who thought that 'giving someone the benefit of the doubt' meant believing that synthetic substances can magically appear in a tamperproof cup, sealed in a tamperproof bag, stored in a tamperproof box.
I always thought Braun did it. However the sample was not treated the way it should have been. He rightfully got off on a technicality.
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I always thought Braun did it. However the sample was not treated the way it should have been. He rightfully got off on a technicality.
True. He rightfully got off on a technicality...but he also held a press conference proclaiming his innocence and implying that his sample was tampered with by the collector all while knowing that he got caught, was fortunate enough to get off on a technicality and that the collector had nothing to do with the test being positive.
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No he was stating the case for why chain of custody is important. Laurenzi's a big boy...he can handle it.
Yes and in this case Laurenzi was the only one who handled the sample, implying that Laurenzi would be the one with intent to tamper with the sample. The same way he implied that the only way his test could be 3 times higher than any other positive test was if someone tampered with it.
He threw the guy under the bus and put the blame on him. A simple, normal act might have been to add this guy's name in the long list of apologies he dished out yesterday. In reality of all the hardship he put on his family, his team, and the organization, this collector really got it worse than anyone as a result of Braun doing steroids.
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I always thought Braun did it. However the sample was not treated the way it should have been. He rightfully got off on a technicality.
True. He rightfully got off on a technicality. Then he held a press conference and went Lance Armstrong on us with his denials and his indignation. That "performance" will make him an anathema to many. He has earned it.
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True. He rightfully got off on a technicality. Then he held a press conference and went Lance Armstrong on us with his denials and his indignation. That "performance" will make him an anathema to many. He has earned it.
I don't disagree with that. I just don't think he owes Laurenzi an apology.
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In the interest of full disclosure and honesty, I did/do view those guys and the other roided up freaks of that era just a little differently (kinda like the NFL players of today - those reveling in this Braun suspension, may want to choose their words carefully, as they are coming to an NFL stadium near you before long. To your point). Where that was about HGH, etc. and getting as big and strong as possible, I view the PED use of today more about recovery, staying on the field, etc. which I still think is very widespread. I understand that may be a difference without a distinction, and I have acknowledged, perhaps in this very thread, that it is admittedly difficult to reconcile, but its how I feel. All of that said, i dont even much care about those guys anymore. I guess I'm not too into the whole "Home Run King" or other things like that (in all honesty I really did not understand the fascination with the Sosa-MacGuire home run battle while it was going on.). I know Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, etc. we're the best players of all time. That's good enough for me. Robin Yount and George Brett were two of my all time favorites (but what do we not know about them?).
Fact is, I view much of this as feigned indignation. I am not going to buy into it because I didn't doubt it was going on all along, and when I am at Miller Park tonight, I don't doubt that there will players on both teams doing the same thing. I just don't care. The game is the same. I want my baseball (and football, and basketball). Is there a more messed up organization than the NCAA? Yet we all flood into the Bradly Center and are glued to the TV when MU plays, and then pretend to be outraged when coaches/players are shown to be scum bags, violations are exposed, etc. I know what's going on, and I readily admit that I provide tacit endorsement with my dollars, and have absolutely no right to criticize after the stuff becomes public knowledge, or try to pretend I didn't know what was happening.
If you want to criticize Braun for strong public denials, etc. when he knew what he was doing, that's fair, but even then, an athlete that didn't turn out to be the guy the public built him up to be? There's a shock. I don't hold them in particularly high esteem to begin with, so its hard to be disappointed. I guess it's times like these that my healthy (or unhealthy) cynicism pays off.
I appreciate the honesty, I guess it seems a bit hypocritical that guys from other teams were/are considered steroid freaks, while your guy is simply trying to stay on the field.
But, at least you are being honest, which most fans struggle with.
We all have our own biases.
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I don't disagree with that. I just don't think he owes Laurenzi an apology.
So, Braun pinned his positive test on a guy he knew did not tamper with his sample and you think that's fine?
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So, Braun pinned his positive test on a guy he knew did not tamper with his sample and you think that's fine?
He made an implication over what could have been done with a chain of command error. I don't have a problem with that at all. Do your job correctly and it wouldn't be a problem.
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I appreciate the honesty, I guess it seems a bit hypocritical that guys from other teams were/are considered steroid freaks, while your guy is simply trying to stay on the field.
Don't get me wrong, its a function of the era, and likely technology and testing. Not sure anyone could take HGH today and get away with it, so the PEDs themselves have changed, and will continue to do so. I'm sure there were plenty of guys I liked who were doing it (not that it helped the Brewers back then). Again, I know it sounds stupid, but they don't look different now like they did then, so maybe just a psychological difference, and im not sure it has as much impact, and if some testosterone, or whatever the heck they're taking that we don't even know about, helps more players stay on the field, as a fan who just wants his baseball, it doesn't bother me a whole lot.
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Don't get me wrong, its a function of the era, and likely technology and testing. Not sure anyone could take HGH today and get away with it, so the PEDs themselves have changed, and will continue to do so. I'm sure there were plenty of guys I liked who were doing it (not that it helped the Brewers back then). Again, I know it sounds stupid, but they don't look different now like they did then, so maybe just a psychological difference, and im not sure it has as much impact, and if some testosterone, or whatever the heck they're taking that we don't even know about, helps more players stay on the field, as a fan who just wants his baseball, it doesn't bother me a whole lot.
I don't disagree, but I think the problems are:
#1 Where do we draw the line between "help you stay on the field" vs "Help you throw 99mph". I don't think you can, so you have to do what you can to eliminate what you can.
and
#2 Baseball is a game of numbers, so if you allow a certain level or artificial PEDs, then be prepared for the record books to look weird. Not that it really matters much to me, but people get weird about that stuff. People want to believe Ted Williams was the best hitter, or Aaron is the home run king. But, truth be told, Bond was better than both of them. No doubt. So, if you allow PEDs in the sport, what does that do to the records? How about the HOF? People have strong emotional ties to that kind of stuff.
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He made an implication over what could have been done with a chain of command error. I don't have a problem with that at all. Do your job correctly and it wouldn't be a problem.
What should have he done differently?
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too bad they kept Braun and let Prince go
because I'm sure Prince would never....
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I have another question for everyone so up in arms about this that has always evaded me about the whole PED discussion...guys like Gaylord Perry, The Neikros, Don Sutton, etc. are actually celebrated in the annals of baseball lore for their ability to scuff the ball, use Vaseline, etc. They sit comfortably in the Hall of Fame, and their cheating is considered little more than a colorful baseball anectdote. How is this any different?
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The votes for these guys to get in the HOF is going to be such a sh*t show.
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I have another question for everyone so up in arms about this that has always evaded me about the whole PED discussion...guys like Gaylord Perry, The Neikros, Don Sutton, etc. are actually celebrated in the annals of baseball lore for their ability to scuff the ball, use Vaseline, etc. They sit comfortably in the Hall of Fame, and their cheating is considered little more than a colorful baseball anectdote. How is this any different?
It's not really different, it's cheating.
But, realistically I don't know if people cared that much because these guys were never obliterating records.
Once all of the records started to fall, then the public outrage began with PEDs, and continues today.
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I have another question for everyone so up in arms about this that has always evaded me about the whole PED discussion...guys like Gaylord Perry, The Neikros, Don Sutton, etc. are actually celebrated in the annals of baseball lore for their ability to scuff the ball, use Vaseline, etc. They sit comfortably in the Hall of Fame, and their cheating is considered little more than a colorful baseball anectdote. How is this any different?
They were pitchers and many fans associated steroids/PED use with bulking up and hitting HRs. Pitchers gaining 30-40 extra pounds of muscle wasn't really thought of as a way to succeed.
It was a different era and their antics were somewhat comical and many viewed it merely as gamesmanship.
Most importantly, they didn't break any hallowed records. Steroids and PEDs were in baseball before the McGwire/Sosa HR race in 1998 but they didn't become a hot topic until players started shattering HR records. Sure, it was in the back of people's minds with Brady Anderson, Albert Belle, Ken Caminiti, the early 90s Rangers, etc but no one was really getting all that close to Maris' 61 or Aaron's 755 so it was all in good fun. From 1928-1997, only one player hit 60+ HR in a season. From 1998-2001, it was done 6 times. Obviously that raised some red flags and then when a guy in the twilight of his career starting hitting HRs at a record pace and getting within shouting distance of 755, the outrage really began.
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I have another question for everyone so up in arms about this that has always evaded me about the whole PED discussion...guys like Gaylord Perry, The Neikros, Don Sutton, etc. are actually celebrated in the annals of baseball lore for their ability to scuff the ball, use Vaseline, etc. They sit comfortably in the Hall of Fame, and their cheating is considered little more than a colorful baseball anectdote. How is this any different?
I think it's different because they aren't injecting poisons into their bodies to improve thus encouraging young baseball players to follow suit. There's no health issue with vaseline.
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It's not really different, it's cheating.
But, realistically I don't know if people cared that much because these guys were never obliterating records.
Once all of the records started to fall, then the public outrage began with PEDs, and continues today.
I think you actually just helped clarify the point I was trying to make earlier about the differences between the Bonds/McGuire era and the Braun/Cabrera era. I don't see today's PED user obliterating records, and in fact the discussion has very much changed more recently to it being more about them pressuring young players to feel that they have to do it to compete, or that the guys using are taking jobs from the guys that aren't. If it truly is the latter, then I think the Gaylord Perry comparison is extremely relevant and exposes incredible hypocrisy on the part of many people.
I think you are right that is why people care(ed) or claim to care. I guess I just don't think that's the case anymore, and why I don't much care.
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I think you actually just helped clarify the point I was trying to make earlier about the differences between the Bonds/McGuire era and the Braun/Cabrera era. I don't see today's PED user obliterating records, and in fact the discussion has very much changed more recently to it being more about them pressuring young players to feel that they have to do it to compete, or that the guys using are taking jobs from the guys that aren't. If it truly is the latter, then I think the Gaylord Perry comparison is extremely relevant and exposes incredible hypocrisy on the part of many people.
I think you are right that is why people care(ed) or claim to care. I guess I just don't think that's the case anymore, and why I don't much care.
The PED door has already been opened. If a guy is breaking records or just trying to get over the hump as a so-called quadruple-A player, there's no going back now.
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"#MLBMath Word Problem: Ryan Braun cheated & got a contract for $105 Million. He got caught & lost $3.25 Million. How much does he care?"
Not to mention that's only going to encourage others to do the same thing.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/la-sp-sn-ryan-braun-brewers-20130729,0,7175634.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/la-sp-sn-ryan-braun-brewers-20130729,0,7175634.story)
$10 voucher to August Milwaukee Brewers games for food/merchandise.
(http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/season_14/sp_1411_clip07.jpg)
WE'RE SORRY
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/la-sp-sn-ryan-braun-brewers-20130729,0,7175634.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/la-sp-sn-ryan-braun-brewers-20130729,0,7175634.story)
$10 voucher to August Milwaukee Brewers games for food/merchandise.
(http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/shows/southpark/vertical_video/season_14/sp_1411_clip07.jpg)
WE'RE SORRY
Better than not doing anything about it. Plus, it's not like they're spending money they weren't expecting to. Ryan Braun was scheduled to make over $3 million during the time he is suspended. The Brewers are expecting to give just over $3 million in vouchers.
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Terribly boring trade deadline.
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I'm pleased with the trades Detroit did. With Peralta likely gone for 50 games and a UFA at the end of this season, the Tigers got their shortstop of right now and for the next few years. Peralta is very steady and reliable at short, but having two infielders with limited range next to each other does not help guys like Porcello or Pfister. They gave up a reliever with a great arm but one who seems to lack the confidence and command necessary to pitch in the majors. Perhaps a change of scenery will help him. Having Avisail Garcia end up with the White Sox is the only real downside. I think that kid is going to be a solid major leaguer, and I am not looking forward to facing him 18 times a year.
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Dempster should have been run. That was bush league. He threw the first one behind ARod, the next two in, and then drilled him on 3-0. The ump warned the benches but didn't toss Dempster. Girardi justifiably lost his mind. So egregiously wrong, it made me a Yankee fan for the night.
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Dempster should have been run. That was bush league. He threw the first one behind ARod, the next two in, and then drilled him on 3-0. The ump warned the benches but didn't toss Dempster. Girardi justifiably lost his mind. So egregiously wrong, it made me a Yankee fan for the night.
Haha. Tough to argue with. Arod made his bed though. It is tough to feel for him. He may get hit a few times more than normal. But seriously, if you can't hit him on the first try, give it up.
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http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=9579944
So is Braun gonna get plunked a couple times next season?
And seriously... Calling the handler/delivery guy an anti-semite? Jeez
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Haha. Tough to argue with. Arod made his bed though. It is tough to feel for him. He may get hit a few times more than normal. But seriously, if you can't hit him on the first try, give it up.
Supposedly he plunked him because Arod snubbed him at a charity event. Not because of PEDs/snitching.
I hate both of these teams but that was a "clown move bro."
It is curious that Arod's pitcher didn't retaliate.
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Supposedly he plunked him because Arod snubbed him at a charity event. Not because of PEDs/snitching.
I hate both of these teams but that was a "clown move bro."
It is curious that Arod's pitcher didn't retaliate.
Not really. The benches were warned. If he would have hit someone he'd have been thrown out.
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Not really. The benches were warned. If he would have hit someone he'd have been thrown out.
Boston pitchers hit 3 more batters. Were they tossed?
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Boston pitchers hit 3 more batters. Were they tossed?
No but they could have been. Certainly not worth the risk for CC. I thought Girardi more than stood up for Arod.
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The PED door has already been opened. If a guy is breaking records or just trying to get over the hump as a so-called quadruple-A player, there's no going back now.
What is your stance on Sammy Soser (can't remember who pronounced it that way)?
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I thought Girardi more than stood up for Arod.
Probably right. And I have now discussed those 2 teams far more than I care to.
Anybody see Strasburg get tossed. That was an odd one.
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What is your stance on Sammy Soser (can't remember who pronounced it that way)?
Sosa was a douche and a crummy teammate - similar to ARod. But this guy Braun, with his "the sample collector's an anti-semetic Cub fan defense takes the cake as lamest cheater ever.
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Sosa was a douche and a crummy teammate - similar to ARod. But this guy Braun, with his "the sample collector's an anti-semetic Cub fan defense takes the cake as lamest cheater ever.
+1. Pathetic.
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Sosa was a douche and a crummy teammate - similar to ARod. But this guy Braun, with his "the sample collector's an anti-semetic Cub fan defense takes the cake as lamest cheater ever.
Not denying anything you say. I was curious about Merritt's take on Sammy.
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What is your stance on Sammy Soser (can't remember who pronounced it that way)?
Well, he never did test positive. Like McGwire, they were linked to Androstenedione, which was not banned by the MLB at the time.
That being said, Sosa is a top-shelf penis.
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Wow. what a douche.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9592788/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-apologizes-ped-use
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Braun released a statement. He was using in 2011 to get over a nagging injury, and he's very sorry.
Nothing else to see here, everything can go back to normal now.
http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/08/22/braun-issues-statement/ (http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/08/22/braun-issues-statement/)
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As apologies go .. that wasn't bad. I don't see a lot of word parsing or blame. Just, I did it, I was wrong, I screwed people over and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry. Not sure what else he could have said to make it a better statement.
The only thing that piqued my interest was the concept that the substances were to heal an injury. There's a spectrum of PED usage .. on one end is "I wanna be a big ogre, swatting home runs" .. on the other would be "I want to heal from an injury quicker." One is massive cheating, the other .. hmm.
Assuming, of course, that Braun is telling the truth there.
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Wow. what a douche.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9592788/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-apologizes-ped-use
Braun released a statement. He was using in 2011 to get over a nagging injury, and he's very sorry.
Nothing else to see here, everything can go back to normal now.
http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/08/22/braun-issues-statement/ (http://brewersbeat.mlblogs.com/2013/08/22/braun-issues-statement/)
Obviously Braun is as big of a douche as they come. There is no denying that. But this statement is not testament to that fact. Everyone was screaming for him to apologize to the sample collector (who deserves blame for not doing his job the way he was supposed to, but obviously not for the failed drug test), to admit his use, to explain his use, and to accept responsibility. He did exactly all of those things. But now it's further proof that he's a douche?
The fact that he lobbied for support, lied to everyone, disappeared for the last month and left everyone else out to hang and answer questions for him, denied his involvement, blamed others, etc. show he's a complete douche. This statement, the words he said? Well done, did exactly what he needed to do.
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As apologies go .. that wasn't bad. I don't see a lot of word parsing or blame. Just, I did it, I was wrong, I screwed people over and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry. Not sure what else he could have said to make it a better statement.
The only thing that piqued my interest was the concept that the substances were to heal an injury. There's a spectrum of PED usage .. on one end is "I wanna be a big ogre, swatting home runs" .. on the other would be "I want to heal from an injury quicker." One is massive cheating, the other .. hmm.
Assuming, of course, that Braun is telling the truth there.
He's not telling the truth. He's been using PEDs to gain a competitive advantage since his days at The U with ARod coming back in the offseasons. I have no proof but apparently MLB had proof (and was ready to release it) of his use throughout his professional career, which is why he suddenly went from denying it to all of a sudden striking a deal for a 65 game suspension.
Apparently the specific incident in which he failed a drug test went something along the lines of:
- Human beings have a 1:1 testosterone:epitestosterone ratio
- Anything that is at or below a 3:1 ratio will pass MLB's drug testing
- A HUGE number of professional baseball players remain on a cycle (take PEDs on a schedule) that keeps them at right around a 3:1 ratio (but never above), and thus they do not fail their drug tests (but still increases their testosterone level by up to 200%, a huge advantage)
- Braun had done this throughout his career
- Whatever PEDs Braun was taking, they were in a gummie form and they disolve under your tongue (absorbed into the body the quickest way possible)
- When the Brewers made it to the Playoffs in 2011 Braun said "eff it, there's no way I'm getting tested so I'm just going to get my nut in the Playoffs"
- Braun went nuts on the PEDs, raising his T:ET ratio to 20:1, and continued to hit .500 in the 5 game win over the Diamondbacks in the 1st round of that Playoffs
- When the collector came into the clubhouse and Braun was notified that he would have a drug test, he was beyond livid
Or so the story goes. Who really knows? But, in my opinion, he's been using PEDs throughout his career, and the cycle (which isn't a new concept) kept him from failing previous drug tests throughout his career (originally I thought Braun roided with ARod when Braun was in college and ARod was in the pros and going back to Miami in the winters, and I was beyond surprised when Braun actually failed a drug test thinking that the newer generation of star players cannot be stupid enough to take PEDs to the point of getting caught...turns out I was wrong). Just like many baseball players do now. Braun was an idiot and let his greed get the best of him, thinking he'd shine the brightest on the biggest stage.
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"Here is what happened. During the latter part of the 2011 season, I was dealing with a nagging injury and I turned to products for a short period of time that I shouldn’t have used."
That's the part I have a problem with. Even if it's 100% true, thinking that the average fan is naive enough to let him play the "I only used once.. it was just to get through an injury" card after his Spring Training press conference makes him look like a douche, IMHO.
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"Here is what happened. During the latter part of the 2011 season, I was dealing with a nagging injury and I turned to products for a short period of time that I shouldn’t have used."
That's the part I have a problem with. Even if it's 100% true, thinking that the average fan is naive enough to let him play the "I only used once.. it was just to get through an injury" card after his Spring Training press conference makes him look like a douche, IMHO.
Yeah, I don't know how anyone can take what he says with a straight face.
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As apologies go .. that wasn't bad. I don't see a lot of word parsing or blame. Just, I did it, I was wrong, I screwed people over and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry. Not sure what else he could have said to make it a better statement.
The only thing that piqued my interest was the concept that the substances were to heal an injury. There's a spectrum of PED usage .. on one end is "I wanna be a big ogre, swatting home runs" .. on the other would be "I want to heal from an injury quicker." One is massive cheating, the other .. hmm.
Assuming, of course, that Braun is telling the truth there.
I remember the specific leg injury he was dealing with late in 2011, if it is the same injury he is referencing. He was on a 22 game hit streak when he hurt his calf, missed like 10 games. That is the only significant amount of time he missed in 2011. Not sure if that was the same injury, though.
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Sosa was a douche and a crummy teammate - similar to ARod. But this guy Braun, with his "the sample collector's an anti-semetic Cub fan defense takes the cake as lamest cheater ever.
Tulowitzki and Votto have both stated Braun didn't lobby them for support, and that the anti-Semitic thing was made up.
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"Here is what happened. During the latter part of the 2011 season, I was dealing with a nagging injury and I turned to products for a short period of time that I shouldn’t have used."
That's the part I have a problem with. Even if it's 100% true, thinking that the average fan is naive enough to let him play the "I only used once.. it was just to get through an injury" card after his Spring Training press conference makes him look like a douche, IMHO.
Exactly. This explanation was a logical explanation that fans really believed at the time; he did have nagging injuries at that time, it was the last go with Fielder and possibly the best shot he'd ever have to make a deep playoff run. Say that when he was caught and it's accepted, and if not forgiven at least digested. After the spring training thing, turning up in the BioGenesis records later, and tripping over lies for a year and a half...nobody will believe anything he says now, nor should they.
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I just heard that some guy (ex friend) is suing Braun. Lots of crap in the suit I don't care about, but one interesting allegation is that Ryan has been using PEDs since high school. If true, his entire career could be a fraud.
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I just heard that some guy (ex friend) is suing Braun. Lots of crap in the suit I don't care about, but one interesting allegation is that Ryan has been using PEDs since high school. If true, his entire career could be a fraud.
And what's his punishment? Essentially nothing. Miss a few games and a few dollars. A slap on the wrist. If any normal guy was caught lying, cheating, etc at his job he'd be fired and possibly sued or jailed. Guys like braun? Nothing. What a unnatural carnal knowledgeed up world we live in.
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I just heard that some guy (ex friend) is suing Braun. Lots of crap in the suit I don't care about, but one interesting allegation is that Ryan has been using PEDs since high school. If true, his entire career could be a fraud.
That suit is going nowhere. In fact it may actually come back to haunt the guy who filed it.
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That suit is going nowhere. In fact it may actually come back to haunt the guy who filed it.
Especially considering I believe the guy is representing himself.
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Braun (and he ain't alone) is a fraud. The apology isn't terrible, but it includes more lies. And, while the apology isn't a testament to his douchieness (it was the right thing to do and not badly done), it is an admission by him that he is a douche.
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He really uck-fayed the Brewer organization in a big way. Love to see Attanasio bite the big one and trade his fraudulent ass. That would be makin' a statement
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He's obviously a d-bag for lying and I think all off us have totally lost any respect we had for him. But....
the whole drug thing astounds me. We are a society that is based on drugs every day and in every way. Turn on the TV and you'll see adds PUSHING drugs. The ads don't even say what they are for. Just "ask your doctor for some". US has 5% of world's population and consumes 75% of world's painkillers.
Where do kids get drugs - from the medicine cabinets of the adults who are appalled by Ryan Braun's actions (their parents). And I haven't even mentioned anti-depressants- usage is up over 400% in last 20 years.
Close to 50% of the population in the 40 - 60 age range need drugs or alcohol to get thru the day - but they function at their job everyday.
We allow players to be surgically enhanced to play - ripping a tendon from one part of the body to use elsewhere - but not medicinally enhanced.
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He's obviously a d-bag for lying and I think all off us have totally lost any respect we had for him. But....
the whole drug thing astounds me. We are a society that is based on drugs every day and in every way. Turn on the TV and you'll see adds PUSHING drugs. The ads don't even say what they are for. Just "ask your doctor for some". US has 5% of world's population and consumes 75% of world's painkillers.
Where do kids get drugs - from the medicine cabinets of the adults who are appalled by Ryan Braun's actions (their parents). And I haven't even mentioned anti-depressants- usage is up over 400% in last 20 years.
Close to 50% of the population in the 40 - 60 age range need drugs or alcohol to get thru the day - but they function at their job everyday.
We allow players to be surgically enhanced to play - ripping a tendon from one part of the body to use elsewhere - but not medicinally enhanced.
This is beyond a reach. Totally different situations.
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And what's his punishment? Essentially nothing. Miss a few games and a few dollars. A slap on the wrist. If any normal guy was caught lying, cheating, etc at his job he'd be fired and possibly sued or jailed. Guys like braun? Nothing. What a unnatural carnal knowledgeed up world we live in.
First time offender got more than the 50 game norm. A few games? A few dollars?
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First time offender got more than the 50 game norm. A few games? A few dollars?
First time offender??? Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahanahahahahhahajahahahahahhhahahahahahhahahahahhahha
Good one, bro.
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First time offender??? Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahanahahahahhahajahahahahahhhahahahahahhahahahahhahha
Good one, bro.
Well to be honest it was a single/first offense as far as we know at this time. But he does sound like the classic kid getting caught smoking dope that tells his parents "it was my 1st time"
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Well to be honest it was a single/first offense as far as we know at this time. But he does sound like the classic kid getting caught smoking dope that tells his parents "it was my 1st time"
I know you are agreeing to a point, but stop the "as far as we know." That guy is a cheater, and has been his whole career. And what does single:first time mean? He used them once, or for "one cycle"? Please. He has used for years, cycling on and off (along with hundreds of others most of whom have not been caught). Let's stop pretending.
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Braun (and he ain't alone) is a fraud. The apology isn't terrible, but it includes more lies. And, while the apology isn't a testament to his douchieness (it was the right thing to do and not badly done), it is an admission by him that he is a douche.
I simply don't understand the excuse-making. Just say...
-I made mistakes in the past by using PEDs (no need to be specific)
-I apologize for lying, in particular to Laurenzi
-I will try to do better in the future
Boom. That's it.
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First time offender got more than the 50 game norm. A few games? A few dollars?
Yes a few dollars. Compared to what his contract is? I may have used a bit of hyperbole, but to him, it's "a few dollars." Again, compared to the rest of us and what would happen to us if we were caught cheating/lying at school, on the job, etc. it is just a slap on the wrist. There are no real long term ramifications for him.
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He's not telling the truth. He's been using PEDs to gain a competitive advantage since his days at The U with ARod coming back in the offseasons. I have no proof but apparently MLB had proof (and was ready to release it) of his use throughout his professional career, which is why he suddenly went from denying it to all of a sudden striking a deal for a 65 game suspension.
Apparently the specific incident in which he failed a drug test went something along the lines of:
- Human beings have a 1:1 testosterone:epitestosterone ratio
- Anything that is at or below a 3:1 ratio will pass MLB's drug testing
- A HUGE number of professional baseball players remain on a cycle (take PEDs on a schedule) that keeps them at right around a 3:1 ratio (but never above), and thus they do not fail their drug tests (but still increases their testosterone level by up to 200%, a huge advantage)
- Braun had done this throughout his career
- Whatever PEDs Braun was taking, they were in a gummie form and they disolve under your tongue (absorbed into the body the quickest way possible)
- When the Brewers made it to the Playoffs in 2011 Braun said "eff it, there's no way I'm getting tested so I'm just going to get my nut in the Playoffs"
- Braun went nuts on the PEDs, raising his T:ET ratio to 20:1, and continued to hit .500 in the 5 game win over the Diamondbacks in the 1st round of that Playoffs
- When the collector came into the clubhouse and Braun was notified that he would have a drug test, he was beyond livid
Or so the story goes. Who really knows? But, in my opinion, he's been using PEDs throughout his career, and the cycle (which isn't a new concept) kept him from failing previous drug tests throughout his career (originally I thought Braun roided with ARod when Braun was in college and ARod was in the pros and going back to Miami in the winters, and I was beyond surprised when Braun actually failed a drug test thinking that the newer generation of star players cannot be stupid enough to take PEDs to the point of getting caught...turns out I was wrong). Just like many baseball players do now. Braun was an idiot and let his greed get the best of him, thinking he'd shine the brightest on the biggest stage.
So, you think MLB has proof he has used PEDs throughout his entire career, knowing this, Braun releases a statement saying it was only once. We all know MLB never leaks anything at all, but if you were right, his drug test results from the past 10 years would magically appear in Jeff Passans email box.
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"Here is what happened. During the latter part of the 2011 season, I was dealing with a nagging injury and I turned to products for a short period of time that I shouldn’t have used."
That's the part I have a problem with. Even if it's 100% true, thinking that the average fan is naive enough to let him play the "I only used once.. it was just to get through an injury" card after his Spring Training press conference makes him look like a douche, IMHO.
Frankly, that's the only part of the "apology" that I believe is sincere. But I don't construe that as the "hey, I only did it once and I got caught" card.
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What is your stance on Sammy Soser (can't remember who pronounced it that way)?
As a Cubs fan, Sammy Sosa was very entertaining to watch both at the plate and in the field (for different reasons) but he was a cheater. Admittedly, I was caught up in the 1998 Sammy hype as a naive 17-year-old, but even then I knew that something just wasn't right about his transformation and subsequent production. The guy went from being Lee May to being Willie Mays seemingly in one offseason.
As a whole, I have fond memories of watching Sosa play, but I look at it similarly to having fond memories playing in a Nintendo RBI Baseball "league" with my friends - it was fun and entertaining but it wasn't real.
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As a Cubs fan, Sammy Sosa was very entertaining to watch both at the plate and in the field (for different reasons) but he was a cheater. Admittedly, I was caught up in the 1998 Sammy hype as a naive 17-year-old, but even then I knew that something just wasn't right about his transformation and subsequent production. The guy went from being Lee May to being Willie Mays seemingly in one offseason.
As a whole, I have fond memories of watching Sosa play, but I look at it similarly to having fond memories playing in a Nintendo RBI Baseball "league" with my friends - it was fun and entertaining but it wasn't real.
It's going to be interesting see the fallout when Sosa (and others) are banned from Cooperstown without ever testing positive for steroids.
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It's going to be interesting see the fallout when Sosa (and others) are banned from Cooperstown without ever testing positive for steroids.
While not offically "banned," many players who never tested positive but were probably (definitely) using are already being left out of Cooperstown. Last year McGwire (who admitted without failing a test) and Sosa received under 20% of the writers' votes, (as did Palmerio, but he tested positive once).
Clemens and Bonds only received 37% and 36% of votes, and both should probably be elgible even if you ignored their "enhanced years." Piazza and Bagwell--who are guilty of playing during the era as much as anything else--received only 67% of votes.
The writers have spoken, and it doesn't look like these players are getting in.
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While not offically "banned," many players who never tested positive but were probably (definitely) using are already being left out of Cooperstown. Last year McGwire (who admitted without failing a test) and Sosa received under 20% of the writers' votes, (as did Palmerio, but he tested positive once).
Clemens and Bonds only received 37% and 36% of votes, and both should probably be elgible even if you ignored their "enhanced years." Piazza and Bagwell--who are guilty of playing during the era as much as anything else--received only 67% of votes.
The writers have spoken, and it doesn't look like these players are getting in.
It will never happen but I'd love to see McGwire, Sosa, Clemens and Bonds all be inducted in the same year just to watch Bud Selig put on a happy face and smile for the cameras next to these guys. He's the one who looked the other way and allowed PEDs to nearly overrun his sport before feigning outrage once records started falling, so he should be forced to welcome these cheaters in Cooperstown.
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As apologies go .. that wasn't bad. I don't see a lot of word parsing or blame. Just, I did it, I was wrong, I screwed people over and I shouldn't have, and I'm sorry. Not sure what else he could have said to make it a better statement.
The only thing that piqued my interest was the concept that the substances were to heal an injury. There's a spectrum of PED usage .. on one end is "I wanna be a big ogre, swatting home runs" .. on the other would be "I want to heal from an injury quicker." One is massive cheating, the other .. hmm.
Assuming, of course, that Braun is telling the truth there.
I thought it was well written.
I don't really believe a word of it (why should I?)
But, it was well written.
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I thought it was well written.
I don't really believe a word of it (why should I?)
But, it was well written.
Can Marquette afford the firm who wrote it? Somebody make a phone call!
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I thought it was well written.
I don't really believe a word of it (why should I?)
But, it was well written.
Agreed. It was nicely done albeit completely false.
After he held a presser vehemently proclaiming his innocence, e-mailing out a lawyer-written statement is cowardly. The least he could do is stand up in front of a room of reporters and speak for himself. Even just reading the lawyer-written statement and exiting would have been a better option than remaining out of site.
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Agreed. It was nicely done albeit completely false.
After he held a presser vehemently proclaiming his innocence, e-mailing out a lawyer-written statement is cowardly. The least he could do is stand up in front of a room of reporters and speak for himself. Even just reading the lawyer-written statement and exiting would have been a better option than remaining out of site.
To be fair, I think the statement was written by a PR flak and then reviewed by a lawyer.
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Yea, I mean, he didn't write it... I don't think a lawyer wrote it either.
It's a communications professional (Yeah college of communications!).
Anyways, as far as a live presser and whatnot, I don't care at all. BUT, I'm not a Brewer/Braun fan, so I don't have the same sense of betrayal that some others do.
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To be fair, I think the statement was written by a PR flak and then reviewed by a lawyer.
True. I guess "lawyer-approved" would have been a better way of putting it.
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Maybe I'm dumb, but can someone explain why PEDs aren't just lifetime bans? Or, perhaps more importantly, why player's unions and the sporting group (mlb, nfl, etc) never agree on testing, etc? If it's bad for the player's health, bad PR when people get caught, bad for league records, etc... Why is it not outlawed and tested for like crazy? If no one is doing it, then everyone is on the same playing field. I would think it would be in everyone's best interest to have it that way.
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Maybe I'm dumb, but can someone explain why PEDs aren't just lifetime bans? Or, perhaps more importantly, why player's unions and the sporting group (mlb, nfl, etc) never agree on testing, etc? If it's bad for the player's health, bad PR when people get caught, bad for league records, etc... Why is it not outlawed and tested for like crazy? If no one is doing it, then everyone is on the same playing field. I would think it would be in everyone's best interest to have it that way.
The players who do it and get away with it often make a lot more money than they'd make without it. Unions want to protect their players' wallets more than their lives.
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Maybe I'm dumb, but can someone explain why PEDs aren't just lifetime bans?
Imposing the equivalent of a "death sentence" is risky in most aspects.
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Unions have compromised on PEDs. More testing is being done and they aren't helping the players with their appeals. That being said, lifetime bans are viewed by the unions as overreaction. And I don't disagree with that.
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Maybe I'm dumb, but can someone explain why PEDs aren't just lifetime bans? Or, perhaps more importantly, why player's unions and the sporting group (mlb, nfl, etc) never agree on testing, etc? If it's bad for the player's health, bad PR when people get caught, bad for league records, etc... Why is it not outlawed and tested for like crazy? If no one is doing it, then everyone is on the same playing field. I would think it would be in everyone's best interest to have it that way.
The union is the adversary of management. They don't view drug testing as a "good of the game" or a "health of the player" issue. They see it as part of the power struggle and a player's rights issue.
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The problem is that we don't know if it is a health issue. I don't know of any long term study on the effects of PEDs or even steroids for that matter. Most reports come from case studies rather than epidemiological studies
It is quite possible that there are serious implication with long term use, but maybe not. Most symptoms will go away after usage is stopped, but not all.
But I see an awful lot of articles as well as posts on this board stating flat out that these drugs are dangerous as though it is a proven fact.
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So, you think MLB has proof he has used PEDs throughout his entire career, knowing this, Braun releases a statement saying it was only once. We all know MLB never leaks anything at all, but if you were right, his drug test results from the past 10 years would magically appear in Jeff Passans email box.
Well they only have 1 failed drug test, but the information they were provided about the Biogenesis Lab essentially proved that he had been using PEDs since day 1 of his professional career. That is what I have heard.
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Well they only have 1 failed drug test, but the information they were provided about the Biogenesis Lab essentially proved that he had been using PEDs since day 1 of his professional career. That is what I have heard.
In all honesty, heard from who? Do you have connections to this case? And again, if MLB had anything to contradict Braun, knowing their record of trying to punish every PED user to the highest extent, wouldn't they release it? Braun made a mockery of Selig, Selig got him on the Biogen docs, now Braun outright lies in his first statement?
If MLB had shreds of evidence of what you claim, why would sit on their hands? I'm no Braun defender, but your logic doesn't pass the smell test.
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In all honesty, heard from who? Do you have connections to this case? And again, if MLB had anything to contradict Braun, knowing their record of trying to punish every PED user to the highest extent, wouldn't they release it? Braun made a mockery of Selig, Selig got him on the Biogen docs, now Braun outright lies in his first statement?
If MLB had shreds of evidence of what you claim, why would sit on their hands? I'm no Braun defender, but your logic doesn't pass the smell test.
No connection to the case at all, just what I've heard "going around." And no, the MLB wouldn't release it, at least not right away, not right after Braun "had his (2nd) day in court." The MLB got what they wanted (punish Ryan Braun), and Ryan Braun got what he wanted (avoid any sort of suspension during the 2014 season). Both parties are happy, and Braun can say what he wants because the investigation is over. The details couldn't "ironically" be left out for somebody to see and talk about to the public, not days after Braun's statement. That's not "ironic" at all. Now maybe in 2 years there could be an "accident" where the details come out.
Let's look at what Braun said. Braun claims he used "cream" and "lozenges" to get over a "nagging injury." Braun's failed drug test was taken on October 1, the same day as Game 1 of the NLDS. Braun missed time during the 2011 season...in July (missing the All-Star Game). In September, Braun hit .333 with 8 home runs. I think Braun was over his "nagging injury" by October 1. Braun also tested 22:1 (originally heard it had been 20:1) in his testosterone:epitestosterone ratio. TWENTY-TWO:ONE! That is TWENTY-TWO TIMES the normal human being ratio. That is also the HIGHEST to ever have been tested in the MLB drug testing. He needed THAT MUCH for a "nagging injury?" Right.
And again, what about when the MLB first questioned him about the Biogenesis clinic? He refused to answer any questions, he continued to deny any wrongdoing. What changed his mind? Over a year and a half of denying everything. Then suddenly he's ready to come clean? Hmm. I'm thinking there was more than just October 1, especially considering he had already beaten that one.
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He's obviously a d-bag for lying and I think all off us have totally lost any respect we had for him. But....
the whole drug thing astounds me. We are a society that is based on drugs every day and in every way. Turn on the TV and you'll see adds PUSHING drugs. The ads don't even say what they are for. Just "ask your doctor for some". US has 5% of world's population and consumes 75% of world's painkillers.
Where do kids get drugs - from the medicine cabinets of the adults who are appalled by Ryan Braun's actions (their parents). And I haven't even mentioned anti-depressants- usage is up over 400% in last 20 years.
Close to 50% of the population in the 40 - 60 age range need drugs or alcohol to get thru the day - but they function at their job everyday.
We allow players to be surgically enhanced to play - ripping a tendon from one part of the body to use elsewhere - but not medicinally enhanced.
This isn't bad. Maybe not entirely analgous, but not bad, and precisely what I don't give a rip about any of this. He did what he did as dozens of other players have, and continue to do. I dont care about them either, and i dont know whay anyone does, if they actually do. Why anyone feels they are entitled to criticize the quality of his apology letter, or say that he needs to stand up and answer questions from reporters is beyond me. He doesn't owe you or I anything. There is a population out there that was going to rip him no matter what he said or didn't say.
This feigned indignation over PED use is ridiculous. It's rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, yet nobody says a word - including most of he same people ripping Braun, ARod, etc. folks like to rip on Braun on Saturday, then praise the likes of Clay Matthews, JJ Watt, Adrian Peterson, Collin Kapernick, etc. on Sunday. Goes byond just PEDs too as far as ripping on the guy as a person (not limited to Braun). How many people at Lambau Field the other night were cheering Johnny Jolly, were ripping on Braun in the parking lot two hours earlier? It's all nonsense.
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This isn't bad. Maybe not entirely analgous, but not bad, and precisely what I don't give a rip about any of this. He did what he did as dozens of other players have, and continue to do. I dont care about them either, and i dont know whay anyone does, if they actually do. Why anyone feels they are entitled to criticize the quality of his apology letter, or say that he needs to stand up and answer questions from reporters is beyond me. He doesn't owe you or I anything. There is a population out there that was going to rip him no matter what he said or didn't say.
This feigned indignation over PED use is ridiculous. It's rampant in the NFL. Everyone knows it, yet nobody says a word - including most of he same people ripping Braun, ARod, etc. folks like to rip on Braun on Saturday, then praise the likes of Clay Matthews, JJ Watt, Adrian Peterson, Collin Kapernick, etc. on Sunday. Goes byond just PEDs too as far as ripping on the guy as a person (not limited to Braun). How many people at Lambau Field the other night were cheering Johnny Jolly, were ripping on Braun in the parking lot two hours earlier? It's all nonsense.
Disagreed with most of your point. I agree that *everyone* does it, and frankly I don't really care as a result. But I do think he owes everyone an apology and the truth. He got caught breaking the rules of his profession, and he needs to own up to it. He is getting paid $150 million by the Milwaukee Brewers and screwed the organization over. Again, I don't really care that he did it, but he does owe the fans the truth. If the NFL tested for PEDs, I'd expect the same from players who get caught. Just because people use them and don't get caught doesn't mean Braun shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.
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Just because people use them and don't get caught doesn't mean Braun shouldn't be held responsible for his actions.
I guess this is my point...he is currently serving a suspension, has had private conversations with Attanasio, ARodge, teammates, etc., and has issued a formal public apology. The fact that public apology doesn't meet with your approval is completely irrelevant. He didn't even owe you or I what he gave, but he did it anyway. No matter what he had done, I suspect you and others would have been criticizing for one reason or another. He is frankly no better off in the eyes of those looking to bury him, than if he had said absolutely nothing (which in my opinion is what he should have done).
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I guess this is my point...he is currently serving a suspension, has had private conversations with Attanasio, ARodge, teammates, etc., and has issued a formal public apology. The fact that public apology doesn't meet with your approval is completely irrelevant. He didn't even owe you or I what he gave, but he did it anyway. No matter what he had done, I suspect you and others would have been criticizing for one reason or another. He is frankly no better off in the eyes of those looking to bury him, than if he had said absolutely nothing (which in my opinion is what he should have done).
I'm not a Braun basher. I defended him after his successful appeal originally. But the guy is a complete idiot. He was lucky to get out of a suspension when he KNEW he had taken PEDs. THAT is when he should have shut the hell up, rather than throwing people under the bus despite the fact that he was the only one to blame. After everything he said and all the denials he put up, he ABSOLUTELY owes us fans the truth. I have paid to go to Milwaukee Brewer baseball games. My support for the team, while as small of a percentage as it is, contributes to Ryan Braun's career and earnings. He screwed over the Brewers organization, his family, his friends, the fans, etc. Maybe he shouldn't "bet his life" that he hadn't put anything in his body. And yet he continues to lie. He did not take them to get over a "nagging injury." He failed his drug test in October. His nagging injury was in July. Just tell the truth. He failed his drug test, come clean with it. Quit lying, you don't look any better.
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That's my problem with the statement. This was really Braun's last opportunity to come clean about the extent of his PED use. If it comes out some time down the road that he was using at some time other than late in 2011, then he's lying more. That's why I'm still trying to give hime a chance to redeem himself. Because he can't be that stupid. As a Brewers fan, I just hope that he's finally being honest.
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And yet he continues to lie. He did not take them to get over a "nagging injury." He failed his drug test in October. His nagging injury was in July. Just tell the truth. He failed his drug test, come clean with it.
Perhaps, but you have no idea if that's true. The fact he happened to be injured in July doesn't mean a thing. You inferred it, but he you no idea what he may have been referring to.
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What the he!! was Carlos Gomez doing last night? I realize that he and Maholm have a bit of a history, but jeez...
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What the he!! was Carlos Gomez doing last night? I realize that he and Maholm have a bit of a history, but jeez...
Its getting to be that the Atlanta Braves sort of have a history with everyone.
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He got plunked by that pitcher earlier in the year. Swings out of his shoes, misses, nearly falling over. Jacks one, and then starts woofing all around the bases. Never actually touches home plate due to the discussion with McCann. Milwaukee still awarded the run. Shut up and run, dummy.
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What the he!! was Carlos Gomez doing last night? I realize that he and Maholm have a bit of a history, but jeez...
Yes he should've rounded the bases rather than admired his home run, but what is McCann doing dropping F bombs at him? And what is Freeman doing stepping in front of him as he's rounding first and getting into his face? And what is McCann doing blocking the plate on a home run? Again, yes Gomez should've gotten around the bases quicker, but he is far from the first player to ever admire a home run, especially after a history of being plunked by Maholm.
Its getting to be that the Atlanta Braves sort of have a history with everyone.
Bingo. The Braves get butthurt to easily, which is why I don't see them making the NLCS. Maybe they will prove me wrong.
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He got plunked by that pitcher earlier in the year. Swings out of his shoes, misses, nearly falling over. Jacks one, and then starts woofing all around the bases. Never actually touches home plate due to the discussion with McCann. Milwaukee still awarded the run. Shut up and run, dummy.
He didn't start woofing until McCann yelled "Run the f*cking bases God damnit!" Would've just been another guy with an overinflated ego watching his home run for a second too long. Nothing new there. But the Braves were offended. Shocking. Twice in a week now for them.
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I keep thinking about the scene in Bull Durham.....are you showing up my pitcher? Run, dummy.
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What the he!! was Carlos Gomez doing last night? I realize that he and Maholm have a bit of a history, but jeez...
That history was obviously all of it. Not typical at all for Gomez, which is of course why it was a thing. He wasnt necessarily wrong to do it, but McCann clearly chose to escalate matters as well. No good guys in this one.
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He got plunked by that pitcher earlier in the year. Swings out of his shoes, misses, nearly falling over. Jacks one, and then starts woofing all around the bases. Never actually touches home plate due to the discussion with McCann. Milwaukee still awarded the run. Shut up and run, dummy.
F*ck the Braves...F*ck Freeman...F*ck McCann.
And most of all, F*ck the "Unwritten Rules of Baseball." Seriously...he flipped his bat and watched the ball too long? Who the hell cares.
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F*ck the Braves...F*ck Freeman...F*ck McCann.
And most of all, F*ck the "Unwritten Rules of Baseball." Seriously...he flipped his bat and watched the ball too long? Who the hell cares.
Seriously?! You left out...and then Gomez screamed at the pitcher. McCann and Freeman were standing up for their guy. If Lucroy and whoever plays 1B for the Brewers did that, you'd be saying what great teammates they are.
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The Cardinals have passed the torch of unwritten rules enforcement to the Braves. In an unwritten ceremony.
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The Cardinals have passed the torch of unwritten rules enforcement to the Braves. In an unwritten ceremony.
lmao
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The Cardinals have passed the torch of unwritten rules enforcement to the Braves. In an unwritten ceremony.
Well done, sir!
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Seriously?! You left out...and then Gomez screamed at the pitcher. McCann and Freeman were standing up for their guy. If Lucroy and whoever plays 1B for the Brewers did that, you'd be saying what great teammates they are.
I wouldn't say that about Lucroy if he did it. It's a stupid, petulant thing to do. Let the batter have his day and move on.
The Cardinals have passed the torch of unwritten rules enforcement to the Braves. In an unwritten ceremony.
Gotta find a way to get both these teams to lose before the WS. Hoping for the Pirates, but will settle for the Dodgers or Reds.
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Don't worry, LA is taking care of the Braves in the NLDS.
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Don't worry, LA is taking care of the Braves in the NLDS.
I hope not, nothing would make me happier than to see the Doyers crash and burn.
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I think if they can put 4 runs up each game it will be likes out with Kershaw, Grienke, and Ryu.
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I think if they can put 4 runs up each game it will be likes out with Kershaw, Grienke, and Ryu.
Yes, very formidable staff.
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I meant "lights".
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Dont have a problem with the Braves. Would really like to see the Pirates do well and as always, love my Rays. So long as the Tigers or Red Sox dont win (I guess the Dodgers too) I am ok.
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The Cardinals have passed the torch of unwritten rules enforcement to the Braves. In an unwritten ceremony.
I was going to say the exact same thing. McCann looked exactly like Pujols did when Morgan and Carpenter yelled at each other. Carpenter strikes out Morgan and yells at him, Morgan yells back while walking to the bench and that should've been it. But Pujols has to be the tough guy and runs across the field from 1st base to escalate the situation. Loved when he'd whine about hitters watching their homers yet he'd do it worse than anyone.
For the record hoping for a Pirated vs. Indians World Series. If not that then the Dodgers or Red Sox can take place.
I fear the day when Molina and Carpenter are off the Cardinals with La Rusa and Pujols being gone already. Matheny seems like a good guy and it's hard not to respect how well run the organization is, especially for a smaller market.
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Cardinals vs Rays in the WS. GO REDBIRDS!!!
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Cardinals vs Rays in the WS. GO REDBIRDS!!!
I would say "snore," but as I thought about it, I doubt I will watch the WS no matter who is playing.
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I would say "snore," but as I thought about it, I doubt I will watch the WS no matter who is playing.
That's certainly your perrogative, but the Cards are generally one of the best draws in baseball. The Rays obviously have a much smaller fanbase but are generally thought to be exciting team, so if that's your definition of a "snore" then I don't think there are many matchups that won't be considered a "snore" to you; but maybe your Brewer fandom clouds your view of a much superior franchise in your division.
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That's certainly your perrogative, but the Cards are generally one of the best draws in baseball. The Rays obviously have a much smaller fanbase but are generally thought to be exciting team, so if that's your definition of a "snore" then I don't think there are many matchups that won't be considered a "snore" to you; but maybe your Brewer fandom clouds your view of a much superior franchise in your division.
Eh...trying to bait a Brewer fan after a bad season and the Packers have already kicked off is really a useless exercise. I mean it's obvious the Cardinals have a superior franchise. I just don't care.
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Eh...trying to bait a Brewer fan after a bad season and the Packers have already kicked off is really a useless exercise. I mean it's obvious the Cardinals have a superior franchise. I just don't care.
Seriously. Is there anyone who doesn't realize the Cardinals are a superior organization (to just about any other organization)? Doesn't mean they would make for an interesting World Series though.
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Eh...trying to bait a Brewer fan after a bad season and the Packers have already kicked off is really a useless exercise. I mean it's obvious the Cardinals have a superior franchise. I just don't care.
Here's a tough question: Would you rather be cheaters who win (Cardinals), cheaters who lose (Brewers) or (sigh...) the Cubs?
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Eh...trying to bait a Brewer fan after a bad season and the Packers have already kicked off is really a useless exercise. I mean it's obvious the Cardinals have a superior franchise. I just don't care.
Eh...I care so little, that I'm going to make a passive agressive comment about the Cardinals in a MLB thread on a MU basketball website, just to show you how much I don't care.
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Eh...trying to bait a Brewer fan after a bad season and the Packers have already kicked off is really a useless exercise. I mean it's obvious the Cardinals have a superior franchise. I just don't care.
Not sure how much of that was baiting, and how much of it was just an excuse to remind everyone of how superior the Cardinals are in every possible facet of the game.
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Not sure how much of that was baiting, and how much of it was just an excuse to remind everyone of how superior the Cardinals are in every possible facet of the game.
I'll admit it was baiting a little bit :)
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Here's a tough question: Would you rather be cheaters who win (Cardinals), cheaters who lose (Brewers) or (sigh...) the Cubs?
Yeah, the Cubs have never had a single cheater on their roster. Clean as a whistle organization. No juicers or guys who use corked bats or anything along those lines. It's just the select few players in the mlb who get caught who are actually cheating when they're listed in a Biogenesis lab. Splintered bats revealing cork doesn't prove anything. The guy mixed his batting practice bat up. He just wanted to do it for the fans during BP. And nothing ever went into his body or others on the Cubs that shouldn't have. Baseball has been very good to him.
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Eh...I care so little, that I'm going to make a passive agressive comment about the Cardinals in a MLB thread on a MU basketball website, just to show you how much I don't care.
It wasn't a passive aggressive comment about the Cardinals. It was a passive aggressive comment about the World Series.
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Yeah, the Cubs have never had a single cheater on their roster. Clean as a whistle organization. No juicers or guys who use corked bats or anything along those lines. It's just the select few players in the mlb who get caught who are actually cheating when they're listed in a Biogenesis lab. Splintered bats revealing cork doesn't prove anything. The guy mixed his batting practice bat up. He just wanted to do it for the fans during BP. And nothing ever went into his body or others on the Cubs that shouldn't have. Baseball has been very good to him.
Lighten up. It was a joke. Your blind hatred of the Cubs is embarrassing.
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Bud just said he is resigning next year
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Watching the homerun and the bat flip is fine, when he started jawing with Maholm right out of the batters box is when he took it too far.
You got him back for hitting you "on purpose" by hitting a homerun off of him, there was no need to for him to yell at Maholom. Gomez is a damn good player but he needs to grow up.
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Bud just said he is resigning next year
His contract is up. He's let it known over two years ago that he will not seek a new deal.
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Bud just said he is resigning next year
He's been saying that for a while. I guess it's "official" now.
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Ah, so that's where Fr. Pilarz is headed, hey?
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Ah, so that's where Fr. Pilarz is headed, hey?
No, that's where Bud is headed.
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Dont have a problem with the Braves. Would really like to see the Pirates do well and as always, love my Rays. So long as the Tigers or Red Sox dont win (I guess the Dodgers too) I am ok.
As a Red Sox fan I don't want to face the Rays with Price and Moore, but the Rays are really taking care of business now.
As an aside, if they're going to have two wild cards they need to balance the schedules. It's ridiculous that the Rays/Orioles had to fight off the Indians (38 games against the helpless Twins and White Sox) and the Rangers (38 games against Seattle and Houston). The doormat of the AL East (The Blue Jays) actually has a winning record when not playing other AL East teams.
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Yeah. It's not fair that the Cardinals, Pirates, and Reds had to spend all year beating up on each other. It practically ruined their playoff chances. ::)
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No, that's where Bud is headed.
Did Buddy get shi tcanned?
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Did Buddy get shi tcanned?
PRN thinks its a scandal...probably sexual.
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Yeah. It's not fair that the Cardinals, Pirates, and Reds had to spend all year beating up on each other. It practically ruined their playoff chances. ::)
Fortunately, while playing around .500 in the games against each other, they got to beat up on the Cubs and Brewers to offset their games against each other. Reds/Pirates were both 24-14 against Cubs/Brewers and Cards 23-12 with 3 left against the Cubs. They also got the advantage of not having to play the AL East in interleague games. So they benefitted from the schedule, too.
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All you can do is play the games in front of you. Now, if you want to make an argument for the end of interleague play and/or a balanced schedule, I don't necessarily disagree. But again, all you can do is play the games in front of you. From a Tiger fan perspective, I am thankful that we got to play Cleveland so much, because we owned them in the regular season. Take out the Indian/Tiger games, and they have a better record than Detroit.
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All you can do is play the games in front of you. Now, if you want to make an argument for the end of interleague play and/or a balance schedule, I don't necessarily disagree. But again, all you can do is play the games in front of you. From a Tiger fan perspective, I am thankful that we got to play Cleveland so much, because we owned them in the regular season. Take out the Indian/Tiger games, and they have a better record than Detroit.
My White Sox set a record yesterday by losing to the Indians for the 14th consecutive time...how depressing. At least I still have the BlackHawks.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/benches-clear-jose-fernandez-hits-first-career-home-022103628--mlb.html
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I am very annoyed the Brewers are winning games. Very. While the worst Brewers team since the early 2000's suddenly has found the will to win, their draft position is shooting down. Dropped three spots alone today. I may sound like a bad fan, but I just want to build a better future and a higher draft pick would help that.
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Don't care for the Yankees, but that was pretty cool
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Don't care for the Yankees, but that was pretty cool
I'm a Red Sox fan, but its hard not to like that guy.
I know I am in the minority, but the true value of a closer is wildly overrated. Using your best pitcher for only one inning in games you're going to win 92% of the time anyway is a tremendous waste of resources. In my opinion, Andy Pettitte had a more valuable regular season career than did Mariano (200+ innings/year of above average pitching vs 65-70 innings/year of dominant pitching). Rivera's true value was in the postseason, when they used him like they used to (and should) use relievers. Multiple innings in tight ballgames, to escape jams, etc.
It's so weird how tied managers are to the save statistic. If the save stat was never invented, I'd wager that Rivera would have pitched more like 100-110 innings a year, almost exclusively in high leverage situations. As it was, he pitched 70 innings a year, 20 of which were' to "get him some work" when save siutations hadn't popped up in a while, while lesser pitchers tried to escape jams in the 7th or 8th inning or pitched in tie ballgames. Makes no sense.
I read somewhere that the Yankees winning pecentage in games where they had the lead entering the 9th inning is about 1% better during the Mariano era than it was in the 18 years preceding it.
This is not meant to be a knock against Rivera, who is truly a great pticher.
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I'm a big Yankee fan and I could not go to bed until I watched everything.
The Andy Pettite & Derek Jeter "pitcher change" idea was only hatched by Joe Girardi in the 8th inning and he got the OK from the umpires and Tampa just before the start of the 9th.
2014 could be a long season.
CTWarrior - Red Sox did the Yanks in back in early September when the Yankees scored 25 runs against them in 3 games and lost all three. Incredible.
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I'm a Red Sox fan, but its hard not to like that guy.
I know I am in the minority, but the true value of a closer is wildly overrated. Using your best pitcher for only one inning in games you're going to win 92% of the time anyway is a tremendous waste of resources. In my opinion, Andy Pettitte had a more valuable regular season career than did Mariano (200+ innings/year of above average pitching vs 65-70 innings/year of dominant pitching). Rivera's true value was in the postseason, when they used him like they used to (and should) use relievers. Multiple innings in tight ballgames, to escape jams, etc.
It's so weird how tied managers are to the save statistic. If the save stat was never invented, I'd wager that Rivera would have pitched more like 100-110 innings a year, almost exclusively in high leverage situations. As it was, he pitched 70 innings a year, 20 of which were' to "get him some work" when save siutations hadn't popped up in a while, while lesser pitchers tried to escape jams in the 7th or 8th inning or pitched in tie ballgames. Makes no sense.
I read somewhere that the Yankees winning pecentage in games where they had the lead entering the 9th inning is about 1% better during the Mariano era than it was in the 18 years preceding it.
This is not meant to be a knock against Rivera, who is truly a great pticher.
While I do generally agree with you about the save statistic, I don't think a lot of people realize that not only is he the best closer ever....but whomever is second really isn't all that close.
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While I do generally agree with you about the save statistic, I don't think a lot of people realize that not only is he the best closer ever....but whomever is second really isn't all that close.
Trevor Hoffman. He is pretty close.
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Trevor Hoffman. He is pretty close.
He's probably second, but it isn't all that close. I'm not going to go through the details, but just look at them statistically. Especially post season.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hoffmtr01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/riverma01.shtml
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While I do generally agree with you about the save statistic, I don't think a lot of people realize that not only is he the best closer ever....but whomever is second really isn't all that close.
Being the best closer is a lot like being the tallest midget, they just don't pitch enough to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. Rivera is a very good pitcher and role model, but the celebrations of his career have been way over the top; it's not like Rivera is a baseball legend. If you're in to statistics, Rivera is only 70th in career ptiching WAR per baseball reference.
This is a pretty good article on the overrating of Rivera and closers in general:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9718373/mariano-rivera-overrated-well-beloved-respected (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9718373/mariano-rivera-overrated-well-beloved-respected)
Also, the HOF comparables for Rivera from baseball reference:
Black Ink
Pitching - 9 (272), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 51 (503), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 262 (8), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 30 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Relief Pitcher (2nd), 57.0 career WAR/28.9 7yr-peak WAR/43.0 JAWS
Average HOF RP (out of 5) = 40.6 career WAR/28.2 7yr-peak WAR/34.4 JAWS
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I'm a Red Sox fan, but its hard not to like that guy.
I know I am in the minority, but the true value of a closer is wildly overrated. Using your best pitcher for only one inning in games you're going to win 92% of the time anyway is a tremendous waste of resources. In my opinion, Andy Pettitte had a more valuable regular season career than did Mariano (200+ innings/year of above average pitching vs 65-70 innings/year of dominant pitching). Rivera's true value was in the postseason, when they used him like they used to (and should) use relievers. Multiple innings in tight ballgames, to escape jams, etc.
It's so weird how tied managers are to the save statistic. If the save stat was never invented, I'd wager that Rivera would have pitched more like 100-110 innings a year, almost exclusively in high leverage situations. As it was, he pitched 70 innings a year, 20 of which were' to "get him some work" when save siutations hadn't popped up in a while, while lesser pitchers tried to escape jams in the 7th or 8th inning or pitched in tie ballgames. Makes no sense.
I read somewhere that the Yankees winning pecentage in games where they had the lead entering the 9th inning is about 1% better during the Mariano era than it was in the 18 years preceding it.
This is not meant to be a knock against Rivera, who is truly a great pticher.
Agree 100%. A starter with 12 wins and 200 innings pitched is more valuable than almost any closer.
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While I do generally agree with you about the save statistic, I don't think a lot of people realize that not only is he the best closer ever....but whomever is second really isn't all that close.
He's the best "closer" ever, and I agree it's not even close. But closers in their current sense have only been around for 25 years or so. He's got the most saves by a good amount, but he's not in the top 50 of guys with saves of 2 or more innings. He's like the best guy ever at kicking field goals under 40 yards. There's value in that, but is it really that important that your guy makes those kicks 100% of the time vs the other guys who make it 95% of the time?
The thing is, he's not going to be that hard to replace. The Yanks used Rafael Soriano last year when Rivera got hurt, and he had your basic Rivera season. There was no drop-off. Check out Papelbon or Kimbrel or Chapman, etc. There are lots of guys who can do what he did. Not for 18 years, though. That's what seperates him from the other guys. That and his brilliant post-season career, where he was a relief pitcher, not just a closer.
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I'm a Red Sox fan, but its hard not to like that guy.
I know I am in the minority, but the true value of a closer is wildly overrated. Using your best pitcher for only one inning in games you're going to win 92% of the time anyway is a tremendous waste of resources. In my opinion, Andy Pettitte had a more valuable regular season career than did Mariano (200+ innings/year of above average pitching vs 65-70 innings/year of dominant pitching). Rivera's true value was in the postseason, when they used him like they used to (and should) use relievers. Multiple innings in tight ballgames, to escape jams, etc.
It's so weird how tied managers are to the save statistic. If the save stat was never invented, I'd wager that Rivera would have pitched more like 100-110 innings a year, almost exclusively in high leverage situations. As it was, he pitched 70 innings a year, 20 of which were' to "get him some work" when save siutations hadn't popped up in a while, while lesser pitchers tried to escape jams in the 7th or 8th inning or pitched in tie ballgames. Makes no sense.
I read somewhere that the Yankees winning pecentage in games where they had the lead entering the 9th inning is about 1% better during the Mariano era than it was in the 18 years preceding it.
This is not meant to be a knock against Rivera, who is truly a great pticher.
The game has changed a lot. I think to win it all you usually need a very good closer as one of the pieces, along with a good setup man. There is something to be said when you only need your starter to go 7 innings because they aren't going to score in the last 2 innings. I agree with you that they are easier to find and definitely replaceable.
I'm not sure he is the greatest closer, either, because the game is so different. The days of Goose Gossage coming in and throwing for 3 innings are gone. I think the save rules are also way to lax. You get a save if the tying run is in the on deck circle...really? A bit generous for my tastes.
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I am very annoyed the Brewers are winning games. Very. While the worst Brewers team since the early 2000's suddenly has found the will to win, their draft position is shooting down. Dropped three spots alone today. I may sound like a bad fan, but I just want to build a better future and a higher draft pick would help that.
I really dislike the way most leagues operate their drafts. I think that the NBA lottery is the closest, but still not quite right. I think that each league should institute a draft lottery where the first team to miss the playoffs gets the highest odds. The only real downside is that you risk putting absolutely top talent on an already good team. But odds are also that those teams might also already have good players at that top talent position. Not out of the ordinary example: in the 2011 NFL draft, the Giants would have had the top pick. Would they have picked Cam Newton with Eli around? Probably not. And if they looked to trade out, then at least its more of a market system. And trades. Everyone loves trades.
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Being the best closer is a lot like being the tallest midget, they just don't pitch enough to make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. Rivera is a very good pitcher and role model, but the celebrations of his career have been way over the top; it's not like Rivera is a baseball legend. If you're in to statistics, Rivera is only 70th in career ptiching WAR per baseball reference.
This is a pretty good article on the overrating of Rivera and closers in general:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9718373/mariano-rivera-overrated-well-beloved-respected (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9718373/mariano-rivera-overrated-well-beloved-respected)
Also, the HOF comparables for Rivera from baseball reference:
Black Ink
Pitching - 9 (272), Average HOFer ≈ 40
Gray Ink
Pitching - 51 (503), Average HOFer ≈ 185
Hall of Fame Monitor
Pitching - 262 (8), Likely HOFer ≈ 100
Hall of Fame Standards
Pitching - 30 (144), Average HOFer ≈ 50
JAWS
Relief Pitcher (2nd), 57.0 career WAR/28.9 7yr-peak WAR/43.0 JAWS
Average HOF RP (out of 5) = 40.6 career WAR/28.2 7yr-peak WAR/34.4 JAWS
Haha, wow. Someone hasn't watched a baseball game since 1975. Bullpens have become just as important as a great rotation, or offense. Rivera is the best pitcher ever to walk onto the field to close a game. I think he actually is a baseball legend. He is the guy that all closers will ever be judged by. If that isn't a legend, I don't know what is.
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Haha, wow. Someone hasn't watched a baseball game since 1975. Bullpens have become just as important as a great rotation, or offense. Rivera is the best pitcher ever to walk onto the field to close a game. I think he actually is a baseball legend. He is the guy that all closers will ever be judged by. If that isn't a legend, I don't know what is.
I didn't even bother reading the post you quoted but I'm guessing the person was claiming Rivera's importance is incredibly overrated. And it is. Sure he shut down teams when he came in. But regardless of whether it was Rivera or any other Yankees relieved, when you have a lead and 3 outs to get, the probability of winning the game is VERY high. Compare that to a 0-0 game with 27 outs to get and the chance you win that game are much lower, thus the importance of a stud starter is much more important than that of a stud closer.
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Rivera is the best pitcher ever to walk onto the field to close a game. I think he actually is a baseball legend. He is the guy that all closers will ever be judged by. If that isn't a legend, I don't know what is.
This is true - until the paradigm shifts for closers again. Ironic that you criticize OP for having a short baseball memory, then in turn speak of today's closers as if the position has been consistent over baseball history. As long as closers only perform in today's limited capacity, Rivera will be the standard. But with the rate analytics are taking over the game, that will probably be only another ten years or so. Then, Rivera will always be remembered as the best closer during the one inning only, save situation era. I would bet that a decade from now, you see "closers" getting a lot more statistical wins and a lot fewer statistical saves as they will evolve to be more like middle relievers brought in when games are close in the sixth or seventh inning.
Actually, I'm surprised more teams don't treat their closers that way now as they try to transition them into the rotation. I'm thinking teams with young stud closers like Feliz in TX, Chapman in Cin, Rosenthal in StL. Instead, TX was wedded to the idea of a traditional closer, tried to keep Feliz in that role for an entire year, then stretch him out in the offseason and bring him into the rotation. Boom, his arm exploded. Maybe that happens anyway, but if they slowly stretch him out during high-pressure situations during the season to the point where its not unusual for him to go three innings, then rest him more in the offseason like a traditional starting pitcher, I have to wonder if that wouldn't be more effective.
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I'm not sure he is the greatest closer, either, because the game is so different. The days of Goose Gossage coming in and throwing for 3 innings are gone. I think the save rules are also way to lax. You get a save if the tying run is in the on deck circle...really? A bit generous for my tastes.
I think we are in agreement. I don't consider Goose Gossage or Dan Quisenberry to be closers in the current sense. They were relief pitchers, used when they were needed most regardless of the save situation. A great season from one of those guys (100-125 IP almost exclusively in high leverage situations)was much more impactful to your W/L record than a great season from Rivera. To me closers are the one inning guys that started in the late 80s with guys like Eckersley, and truthfully, he came into games in the 8th a lot more often than the Rivera/Hoffman guys.
As for the save rule, all baseball stats are a little subject to context. You can pitch 5 innings and give up 6 runs, but get a win if your team scores 7 while you're in the game. You can come in in the 9th and blow a 3 run lead and get the win if your team scores a run in the bottom of the 9th. You canget an RBI for hitting a lazy flyball or a weak grounder to second with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. Think about this, if you score a run because you got 3 singles, the first guys gets a run scored and the last guy gets an RBI, but the guy who got the middle hit was just as important and gets nothing extra. OTOH, you can argue that the save is the most important stat in baseball because it is the only one that comes to mind that, for some strange reason, dictates strategy.
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Unless Detroit collectively grows a set, Cleveland is going to win the central. Right now, Detroit is incapable of getting a clutch hit, getting a big out, or making the big defensive play. Two hitters on the team are driving in runs, the bullpen is leaky. Francona has the Indians playing loose and is getting the most out of his talent. Now that Raburn is no longer the whipping boy for everything that went wrong in Detroit up to and including Hoffa, it turns out he is a decent hitter. Cleveland has the momentum right now and Detroit has feet of clay. 80 games to get it sorted out.
I was close. Francona for manager of the year. I can only hope that the Tigers were playing rope-a-dope and are going to flip the batting switch to 'on'.
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I was close. Francona for manager of the year. I can only hope that the Tigers were playing rope-a-dope and are going to flip the batting switch to 'on'.
The Indians were bum-slayers though. Going 17-2 against the White Sox and 13-6 against the Twins really helped. OTOH they went 4-15 v. Detroit.
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The Indians were bum-slayers though. Going 17-2 against the White Sox and 13-6 against the Twins really helped. OTOH they went 4-15 v. Detroit.
The Indians were incredibly fortunate to have their last 10 games (and 14 of their last 17) against the three worst teams in the AL. I'll take it. Go Tribe!
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The Indians were bum-slayers though. Going 17-2 against the White Sox and 13-6 against the Twins really helped. OTOH they went 4-15 v. Detroit.
Not sure I understand...are you criticizing them for beating up on the bad teams on their schedule? Isn't that what your supposed to do? What about the 5-1 vs. TEX? 5-2 vs. OAK? DEt was 0-6 vs. LAA. Works both ways.
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Not sure I understand...are you criticizing them for beating up on the bad teams on their schedule? Isn't that what your supposed to do? What about the 5-1 vs. TEX? 5-2 vs. OAK? DEt was 0-6 vs. LAA. Works both ways.
Not criticizing them. Just don't think they are very good.
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Not criticizing them. Just don't think they are very good.
Yeah, lots of teams just win 92 games with out being very good.
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Yeah, lots of teams just win 92 games with out being very good.
Yep. Especially when they get lots of games versus bottom-feeder opponents.
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Cleveland was very strange this year. They were 41-11 against the AL's true bottom feeders (CHW, MIN, SEA and HOU) but they were also 5-2 vs OAK and 5-1 vs TEX. Their impressive finishing stretch was against a trio of teams that had totally surrendered and were even worse at the end of the season than they were during the season. I really can't see them getting past the Red Sox should they win the wild card game.
I think any of Oakland/Boston/Detroit can win the AL and any of LA/Atlanta/Saint Louis can win the NL. Should be an excellent postseason with no dominant team.
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The Indians were incredibly fortunate to have their last 10 games (and 14 of their last 17) against the three worst teams in the AL. I'll take it. Go Tribe!
Go Tribe!
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The Dale Sveum Era has ended in Chicago.
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The Dale Sveum Era has ended in Chicago.
Buy the man a razor. Maybe he can shave more than once a week when he goes on job interviews. He made Quade look awake.
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Buy the man a razor. Maybe he can shave more than once a week when he goes on job interviews. He made Quade look awake.
Hard to blame him. Would have you wanted to be awake and watch that for 2 years.
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Sveum was hired as the sacrificial lamb during rebuilding, and I suspect he was well aware of that. Still, I gotta believe they had intended for him to be around one more year at least, before they hire the guy they want once they are closer to being a finished product. Seems as though the (lack of) development of Rizzo, Castro, Lake, etc. was key to this decision, unless of course they have an opportunity, and feel like their only opportunity to hire Girardi is now.
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Sveum was hired as the sacrificial lamb during rebuilding, and I suspect he was well aware of that. Still, I gotta believe they had intended for him to be around one more year at least, before they hire the guy they want once they are closer to being a finished product. Seems as though the (lack of) development of Rizzo, Castro, Lake, etc. was key to this decision, unless of course they have an opportunity, and feel like their only opportunity to hire Girardi is now.
My assumption is that they're going to make a run at Girardi and I don't blame them. If you can get a top 5 manager, you go for it. If not, they can bring in Dale Sveum 2.0 and be right where they are now.
Castro was a "see the ball, hit the ball" type of hitter for his first 3 seasons in the Majors. He hit .297 with a .336 OBP during that time. The Cubs wanted him to be more selective, take more walks and go the other way more often. As a result, they got him all out of sorts at the plate and his average, OBP and slugging all plummeted while his K's increased, walks decreased and his WAR dropped by over 4 points. If a team has a 23-year-old who's a proven .300 in big leagues, let him do his thing. I'm not pinning that all on Sveum but when something like that happens, there's going to be a fall guy.
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I wouldn't count the Maddux brothers out of this race.
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My assumption is that they're going to make a run at Girardi and I don't blame them. If you can get a top 5 manager, you go for it. If not, they can bring in Dale Sveum 2.0 and be right where they are now.
Castro was a "see the ball, hit the ball" type of hitter for his first 3 seasons in the Majors. He hit .297 with a .336 OBP during that time. The Cubs wanted him to be more selective, take more walks and go the other way more often. As a result, they got him all out of sorts at the plate and his average, OBP and slugging all plummeted while his K's increased, walks decreased and his WAR dropped by over 4 points. If a team has a 23-year-old who's a proven .300 in big leagues, let him do his thing. I'm not pinning that all on Sveum but when something like that happens, there's going to be a fall guy.
Fall guy should be Epstein. I'm sure he's behind the effort to "convert" Castro into something he's never been and never will be. Don't want to draft, trade for or sign as free agents free swingers who don't fit your "model"? Fine. Don't even want those guys on your team? Again, fine. He could have traded Castro for a ton rather than trying to turn him into Wade Boggs. He's worth a lot less now, and that's on Theo.
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Fall guy should be Epstein. I'm sure he's behind the effort to "convert" Castro into something he's never been and never will be. Don't want to draft, trade for or sign as free agents free swingers who don't fit your "model"? Fine. Don't even want those guys on your team? Again, fine. He could have traded Castro for a ton rather than trying to turn him into Wade Boggs. He's worth a lot less now, and that's on Theo.
Be that as it may, Theo isn't going to fire himself, Ricketts sure as hell isn't going to fire him and Hoyer's not going anywhere. That makes Sveum the fall guy, especially when you consider that Epstein/Hoyer wanted Castro to be their type of player and Sveum (fairly or unfairly) couldn't turn him into that.
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I wouldn't count the Maddux brothers out of this race.
Or Ozzie.
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Go Tribe!
Got tougher for the tribe after last night. I liked their chances much better against Texas than Tampa Bay.
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Be that as it may, Theo isn't going to fire himself, Ricketts sure as hell isn't going to fire him and Hoyer's not going anywhere. That makes Sveum the fall guy, especially when you consider that Epstein/Hoyer wanted Castro to be their type of player and Sveum (fairly or unfairly) couldn't turn him into that.
Theo et. al. may be to blame for overestimating Sveum's abilities as a manager, but he has done a pretty good job (from what I understand) in building up the farm system. A guy like Girardi would not have considered the Cubs job a couple years ago because there wasn't much of a light at the end of the tunnel. Now there is.
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Yes he should've rounded the bases rather than admired his home run, but what is McCann doing dropping F bombs at him? And what is Freeman doing stepping in front of him as he's rounding first and getting into his face? And what is McCann doing blocking the plate on a home run? Again, yes Gomez should've gotten around the bases quicker, but he is far from the first player to ever admire a home run, especially after a history of being plunked by Maholm.
Bingo. The Braves get butthurt to easily, which is why I don't see them making the NLCS. Maybe they will prove me wrong.
Shocking that the Braves were swept.
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Shocking that the Braves were swept.
Ahem....sure about that?
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F*ck the Braves...F*ck Freeman...F*ck McCann.
Karma bitches.
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Dodgers will likely have the chance to knock off both arbiters of the game to reach the World Series.
Also, noticed McCann didn't block the plate after Uribe's bat flip/celebration.
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Dodgers will likely have the chance to knock off both arbiters of the game to reach the World Series.
Also, noticed McCann didn't block the plate after Uribe's bat flip/celebration.
And went something like 0-13 for the series.
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Ahem....sure about that?
Haha oops. Early exit either way.
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As an aside, does anybody know how accurate that Pitch Trax graphic is on these games? The Red Sox-Rays umpire seemed to get every pitch around the edges of the strike zone wrong. Just brutal.
All time classic at bat for Ben Zobist in the fourth. He hit a foul pop-up with the first baseman camped under it, but it stuck in the lights. Then on the 1-1 pitch, he hit a foul pop-up with the catcher camped under it. He caught it, but it scraped the lights so it was a foul ball. Next pitch the entire baseball is within the strike zone, part of it touching the middle of the nine sqaures on Pitch Trax (not even close to a ball) and the ump calls it a ball 2. The next pitch 3/4 of the ball has the inside corner of the plate and its ball 3. A foul or two later and he walks. He was actually out 4 times and managed to walk. The Red Sox got a slew of calls their way, too, so no sour grapes. People make a big deal about instant replays on close calls and the like, but it would have a far bigger impact on the sport of baseball if balls and strikes were called more accurately.
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And went something like 0-13 for the series.
And K'd 4 times last night.
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And K'd 4 times last night.
And then there's this.
http://deadspin.com/report-braves-players-boycotted-chipper-joness-first-1442463473
What a joyless bunch of asshats.
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Dodgers will likely have the chance to knock off both arbiters of the game to reach the World Series.
Also, noticed McCann didn't block the plate after Uribe's bat flip/celebration.
$240Million payroll can do wonders....the payroll will be even higher next year, perhaps $300 million being thrown around.
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And then there's this.
http://deadspin.com/report-braves-players-boycotted-chipper-joness-first-1442463473
What a joyless bunch of asshats.
Wow.
Shocked McCann didn't block Uribe from touching home plate.
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Dodgers will likely have the chance to knock off both arbiters of the game to reach the World Series.
Also, noticed McCann didn't block the plate after Uribe's bat flip/celebration.
Yeah completely different from what Fernandez did.
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And then there's this.
http://deadspin.com/report-braves-players-boycotted-chipper-joness-first-1442463473
What a joyless bunch of asshats.
That is absolutely ridiculous. When you are making class act, franchise cornerstone Chipper Jones out to be a bad guy there is something very wrong. If McCann was behind this he is now a 10 on the scumbag meter in my eyes.
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That is absolutely ridiculous. When you are making class act, franchise cornerstone Chipper Jones out to be a bad guy there is something very wrong. If McCann was behind this he is now a 10 on the scumbag meter in my eyes.
While Chipper was an outstanding ballplayer but hardly a class act off the field.
A child with another woman while still married, public drunkenness, and probable steroid use are hardly the definition of class.
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And then there's this.
http://deadspin.com/report-braves-players-boycotted-chipper-joness-first-1442463473
What a joyless bunch of asshats.
What happened to going out and proving them wrong? Something the a braves were incapable of doing, but seriously, to get offended because someone doesn't pick you to win. Good grief.
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While Chipper was an outstanding ballplayer but hardly a class act off the field.
A child with another woman while still married, public drunkenness, and probable steroid use are hardly the definition of class.
The true measure of how big of a douche McCann is lies in the fact he's made Chipper the "good guy" in this scenario.
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The true measure of how big of a douche McCann is lies in the fact he's made Chipper the "good guy" in this scenario.
Let's not forget that the Braves made the team with the $220M payroll look like the "good guys."
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Hey now...Just because they make a lot of money and swam in someone else's pool, it doesn't make them bad guys.
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Hey now...Just because they make a lot of money and swam in someone else's pool, it doesn't make them bad guys.
I don't necessarily think they're bad guys but your average sports fan typically doesn't root for the team with the highest payroll in the league.
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Might have a ridiculous payroll but are missing kemp and ethier on the field. $8 billion dollar tv deal goes a long way. Helps to have 55K in attendance as well
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I am going to be very upset of the conference series will be between, Detroit, Boston, St. Louis and LA. Those four teams are my least favorite teams in the entire league and to know that one of them has to win would be sickening.
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I am going to be very upset of the conference series will be between, Detroit, Boston, St. Louis and LA. Those four teams are my least favorite teams in the entire league and to know that one of them has to win would be sickening.
I'd LOVE to see a Pittsburgh-Oakland World Series...especially if the teams both wear 70s-style uniforms.
I'd HATE to see a Boston-St. Louis World Series. So naturally, I'm predicting a Boston-St. Louis World Series.
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I'd LOVE to see a Pittsburgh-Oakland World Series...especially if the teams both wear 70s-style uniforms.
I'd HATE to see a Boston-St. Louis World Series. So naturally, I'm predicting a Boston-St. Louis World Series.
Mount rushmore of 70s throwbacks.
Pittsburgh
(http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/pirates-uniform.jpg)
San Diego Dads
(http://throwbackattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/padres70s_medium.jpg)
Stros
(http://throwbackattack.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/attachment.jpg)
Phils
(http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2013/0515/play_g_phillies_cr_576.jpg)
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Might have a ridiculous payroll but are missing kemp and ethier on the field. $8 billion dollar tv deal goes a long way. Helps to have 55K in attendance as well
That TV deal doesn't start until next season and it's going to be fun to see who actually decides to carry it and who tells the Doyers to pound sand.
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I'd LOVE to see a Pittsburgh-Oakland World Series...especially if the teams both wear 70s-style uniforms.
I'd HATE to see a Boston-St. Louis World Series. So naturally, I'm predicting a Boston-St. Louis World Series.
The Cardinal's win tonight makes it extremely likely that I have watched my last baseball game for this year. With the possible exception of Detroit, I find the remaining teams/series quite uncompelling. Good teams, and maybe even quality series, but I'm falling asleep just thinking about it.
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The Cardinal's win tonight makes it extremely likely that I have watched my last baseball game for this year. With the possible exception of Detroit, I find the remaining teams/series quite uncompelling. Good teams, and maybe even quality series, but I'm falling asleep just thinking about it.
How can you not root for the A's?
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How can you not root for the A's?
Balfour
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How can you not root for the A's?
Tiger fan.
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How can you not root for the A's?
I like the A's, but I would understand why someone would have trouble with a team that had Bartolo Colon win 18 games for them this season.
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I like the A's, but I would understand why someone would have trouble with a team that had Bartolo Colon win 18 games for them this season.
Much like it's understandable if someone had trouble with a team that had David Ortiz hit 30 HR for them this season.
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Much like it's understandable if someone had trouble with a team that had David Ortiz hit 30 HR for them this season.
Perhaps, but Ortiz has never been caught of anything. Colon has.
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Perhaps, but Ortiz has never been caught of anything. Colon has.
Ortiz tested positive in 2003.
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Colon looks like a circus clown.
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Colon looks like a circus clown.
The guy is full of s#!t, if you ask me.
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Ortiz tested positive in 2003.
Fair point...I should have said caught and suspended. I don't believe he has tested positive since the new rules were put in place, but Colon has and was suspended as a result.
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As a White Sox and Rays fan I hope to god its not a Tigers, Red Sox ALCS. Im pulling for the As like no other or else im gonna have to settle for cheering for the Dodgers...
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The guy is full of s#!t, if you ask me.
That right there is pretty funny, if you ask me.
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As a White Sox and Rays fan I hope to god its not a Tigers, Red Sox ALCS. Im pulling for the As like no other or else im gonna have to settle for cheering for the Dodgers...
ABB - Anyone but Boston. But this could just be my Yankee fandom talking. And Mattingly is a Yankee.
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Fair point...I should have said caught and suspended. I don't believe he has tested positive since the new rules were put in place, but Colon has and was suspended as a result.
How about a showdown tonight between Colon (ERA+ 113) & Peralta (OPS+ 119)! MustSeeTV.... Who got the better juice from Biogenesis? Maybe we'll find out.
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How about a showdown tonight between Colon (ERA+ 113) & Peralta (OPS+ 119)! MustSeeTV.... Who got the better juice from Biogenesis? Maybe we'll find out.
Colon isn't pitching.
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Fair point...I should have said caught and suspended. I don't believe he has tested positive since the new rules were put in place, but Colon has and was suspended as a result.
I would wager that every single team had at least 5-10 guys using something illegal in 2003. Seems odd to pick on one guy because his name was leaked and who hasn't tested positive since.
The Sox are one of the richest (though not in the same ballpark as the Yankees or Dodgers) and one of the smartest (along with the A's, the Rays, the Braves and the Cardinals), which is a tough combo to beat.
I'll be the first to admit that the fanbase was insufferable before we finally won. Even though they hadn't won a World Series for a long time before 2004, they were in the thick of things just about every summer, so they were still fun to follow until late September. It's not like we were the Cubs or something.
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I would wager that every single team had at least 5-10 guys using something illegal in 2003. Seems odd to pick on one guy because his name was leaked and who hasn't tested positive since.
The Sox are one of the richest (though not in the same ballpark as the Yankees or Dodgers) and one of the smartest (along with the A's, the Rays, the Braves and the Cardinals), which is a tough combo to beat.
I'll be the first to admit that the fanbase was insufferable before we finally won. Even though they hadn't won a World Series for a long time before 2004, they were in the thick of things just about every summer, so they were still fun to follow until late September. It's not like we were the Cubs or something.
And the fanbase is even more insufferable now.
Legit question: Do Red Sox fans admit that their team has won by doing things the "Yankee way" (i.e. throw money at their issues) or do they refuse to accept that and still view the Yanks as the Evil Empire?
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I would wager that every single team had at least 5-10 guys using something illegal in 2003. Seems odd to pick on one guy because his name was leaked and who hasn't tested positive since.
The Sox are one of the richest (though not in the same ballpark as the Yankees or Dodgers) and one of the smartest (along with the A's, the Rays, the Braves and the Cardinals), which is a tough combo to beat.
I'll be the first to admit that the fanbase was insufferable before we finally won. Even though they hadn't won a World Series for a long time before 2004, they were in the thick of things just about every summer, so they were still fun to follow until late September. It's not like we were the Cubs or something.
I wouldn't disagree with your wager. I left the Angels in 2000 and my guess is your number is probably fairly accurate based on what I heard retroactively. I also agree that as far as we know, he's been clean since.
Sox fans are more insufferable now then they were then, IMO.
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And the fanbase is even more insufferable now.
I believe the late arrivals to the bandwagon are what make the fanbase insufferable.
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I would wager that every single team had at least 5-10 guys using something illegal in 2003. Seems odd to pick on one guy because his name was leaked and who hasn't tested positive since.
The Sox are one of the richest (though not in the same ballpark as the Yankees or Dodgers) and one of the smartest (along with the A's, the Rays, the Braves and the Cardinals), which is a tough combo to beat.
I'll be the first to admit that the fanbase was insufferable before we finally won. Even though they hadn't won a World Series for a long time before 2004, they were in the thick of things just about every summer, so they were still fun to follow until late September. It's not like we were the Cubs or something.
Agreed. It baffles me that fans actually think there are teams out there who are without someone on their team who has used/is using PEDs.
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Legit question: Do Red Sox fans admit that their team has won by doing things the "Yankee way" (i.e. throw money at their issues) or do they refuse to accept that and still view the Yanks as the Evil Empire?
They have wised up since the Crawford/Beckett/Gonzalez signings. Just like the Yankees in the 90s, the Red Sox plan is to agument a productive farm system with targeted free agents. When you look at the guys they signed this past winter, Victorino is the only guy they signed for big money, and they were widely panned for signing him. All of their other acquisitions (Uehara, Gomes, Napoli, Drew) were short term guys at reasonable money that didn't require them to give up a draft pick and guys that most teams could have afforded. They will be outbid for Ellsbury this winter, but they have Bradley, Jr. ready to take his place.
You can't win consistently using the Yankees 2000s model anymore. Those huge long term contracts cripple you over the back half no matter how much money you have. The Dodgers are the Yankees now and will be good for the next couple of years. It will be interesting if they can maintain that simply by spending. That said, I fully acknowledge that the Red Sox outspend all but a handful of other teams, and that is the biggest reason why they are consistently good.
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I believe the late arrivals to the bandwagon are what make the fanbase insufferable.
Defintely, they are more insufferable now. Connecticut is split between Yankee & Red Sox fans (with a few Mets fans sprinkled in) so the rivalry can get intense at times.
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Well, see you guys in March. Screw every single team left, it could not be a worse final four. Go Dodgers? I guess thats what its coming down to
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Defintely, they are more insufferable now. Connecticut is split between Yankee & Red Sox fans (with a few Mets fans sprinkled in) so the rivalry can get intense at times.
Oh man, is that ever the pot calling the kettle black (or in deference to the other threads in the Superbar, the pot calling the kettle African-American). There has never been a more insufferable fan base than Yankees fans, circa 2000. Basically, Red Sox fans in CT had to put up with gloating Yankees fans for about 86 years, only natural they'd want to exact a little revenge when finally given the opportunity. And while other fan bases can gripe about the Red Sox payroll, Yankees fans sure can't, since they average about $50M/year higher payroll than the Sox since the turn of the millenium.
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My pre-playoff prediction of a Dodgers-Sox World Series is still alive. Guessed everything right besides picking Oakland to get past Detroit.
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Things I don't like about last night:
1. Removing A Gonz for Dee Gordon and not even trying to steal.
2. Sending Ellis on a shallow fly to right, especially after he just legged out a 3B.
3. Michael Young.
I hate to same a game 2 is a must win, but u have to get at least one win out of Kershaw and Greinke.
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Things I don't like about last night:
1. Removing A Gonz for Dee Gordon and not even trying to steal.
2. Sending Ellis on a shallow fly to right, especially after he just legged out a 3B.
3. Michael Young.
I hate to same a game 2 is a must win, but u have to get at least one win out of Kershaw and Greinke.
I think you had to try on #2. Force them to make a play late in the game.
Go Cards or anyone playing the Doyers
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#2 I know...
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Things I don't like about last night:
1. Removing A Gonz for Dee Gordon and not even trying to steal.
2. Sending Ellis on a shallow fly to right, especially after he just legged out a 3B.
3. Michael Young.
I hate to same a game 2 is a must win, but u have to get at least one win out of Kershaw and Greinke.
#1 was the big one. You either have Gordon running right away or wait until Gonzalez is on 2nd before using the pinch runner.
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#1 was the big one. You either have Gordon running right away or wait until Gonzalez is on 2nd before using the pinch runner.
That was pretty bad.
There's a chance Gordon would've been sent if Puig got ahead in the count (he was 0-1 and grounded out on the third pitch), but if you're subbing for Gonzalez, you need to make sure.
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#1 was the big one. You either have Gordon running right away or wait until Gonzalez is on 2nd before using the pinch runner.
Agree 100%. The odds of a gapper (if you're not going to steal the only way the speed difference would be important is on a double in the gap) is miniscule compared to the likelihood of that spot coming up again in a tie game. Not only that, but Donnie Baseball compounded the stupidity of pinch-running by bunting in front of Hanley Ramirez in extras, taking the bat out of his hands. With A-Gon gone, no way you pitch to Hanley in extras with first base open, so why would you invite that situation.
One thing about bunting. It is almost always stupid with your regular position players. You are more likely to score one run with a runner on first and nobody out than you are with a runner on second and one out. So even if it is successful, you are decreasing your chance of scoring a run and greatly decreasing your chances of scoriing more than one run.
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Agree 100%. The odds of a gapper (if you're not going to steal the only way the speed difference would be important is on a double in the gap) is miniscule compared to the likelihood of that spot coming up again in a tie game. Not only that, but Donnie Baseball compounded the stupidity of pinch-running by bunting in front of Hanley Ramirez in extras, taking the bat out of his hands. With A-Gon gone, no way you pitch to Hanley in extras with first base open, so why would you invite that situation.
One thing about bunting. It is almost always stupid with your regular position players. You are more likely to score one run with a runner on first and nobody out than you are with a runner on second and one out. So even if it is successful, you are decreasing your chance of scoring a run and greatly decreasing your chances of scoriing more than one run.
Agree with all you say. Mattingly made the mistakes that mattered in this game. And while there are times to sacrifice (8 or 9 spot late in game), your assessment is right on.
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BoSox showed how to use a pinch-runner last night. Q had Tiger fans terrified. Stealing game one on the road is always good.
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BoSox showed how to use a pinch-runner last night. Q had Tiger fans terrified. Stealing game one on the road is always good.
He had Benoit terrified.
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I am pretty sure that every player that has tried to steal on Benoit this year has been successful. Benoit pitches glacially slow anyway. Berry just made it worse.
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I am pretty sure that every player that has tried to steal on Benoit this year has been successful. Benoit pitches glacially slow anyway. Berry just made it worse.
Scherzer was awesome last night. The Red Sox are going to have to change their approach against the Tigers starters and start swinging a little earlier in the count. Seems like every batter was down in the count 1-2 after 3 pitches against Scherzer. Sanchez was terrific in game 1, too. Electric stuff, and he was hitting the edges of the strike zone all night.
Fielder is not aptly named. His lazy attempt to block Iglesias' poor throw, which he should have easily knocked down, followed by dropping that foul pop-up were killers, though the horse was out of the barn by then.
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Game 2 of the ALCS was absolutely fantastic. There has been a string of very good postseason games this year.
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Scherzer was awesome last night. The Red Sox are going to have to change their approach against the Tigers starters and start swinging a little earlier in the count. Seems like every batter was down in the count 1-2 after 3 pitches against Scherzer. Sanchez was terrific in game 1, too. Electric stuff, and he was hitting the edges of the strike zone all night.
Fielder is not aptly named. His lazy attempt to block Iglesias' poor throw, which he should have easily knocked down, followed by dropping that foul pop-up were killers, though the horse was out of the barn by then.
Fielder seems to be far more of a defensive liability than Miggy ever was at first. He went through a streak in '12 where he simply could not dig the ball out of the dirt. Detroit's bullpen meltdown was perpetrated by the exact same cast of characters that was so stellar in game one. And therein lies the Achilles heel of the Tigers. For all of their hitters, they go extended teamwide slumps. Normally, Cabrera can be enough to carry them, but right now he just isn't healthy enough. The bullpen can go through a week of solid pitching and then have a performance like game 2. Hell, the A's blew up 4 of our starting pitchers in a row back in August. There is not a single aspect of the Tigers that their fans feel like they can count on game-in and game-out. The maddening thing is that they win it all or lose the next 3 in a row and not shock their fans.
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This pretty well sums it up. Go Dodgers!
http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646 (http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646)
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This pretty well sums it up. Go Dodgers!
http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646 (http://deadspin.com/why-your-cardinals-suck-1443513646)
You need to spend about 4 nanoseconds with Doyers fans to come away with the same feelings.
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Huge start from Ryu tonight. Does Greinke go in game 4? And then 7...
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/story/_/id/9827666/2013-mlb-playoffs-yasiel-puig-los-angeles-dodgers-annoys-carlos-beltran-st-louis-cardinals
Anybody think Puig gets hit tonight?
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Anybody think Puig gets hit tonight?
I don't think so, though if he comes up with two outs and first base open wouldn't dig in too deep. But I am constantly amazed how major league hitters don't bust it out of the box, even in playoff games with the season on the line. I can see if you hit one of those Reggie Jackson moonshots that land 50 rows deep, but how many times do you see guys admire balls that barely do or don't make it to the stands? A base could be the difference between winning and losing.
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Anybody think Puig gets hit tonight?
The only way he gets plunked is if it's a blowout and the Cards bring in the last reliever on the roster in mop-up duty. Otherwise, there's too much at stake, especially with only 9 runs scored total in 3 games. Teams can't afford to be giving free passes. It's more likely that he'll get drilled next season.
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I don't think so, though if he comes up with two outs and first base open wouldn't dig in too deep. But I am constantly amazed how major league hitters don't bust it out of the box, even in playoff games with the season on the line. I can see if you hit one of those Reggie Jackson moonshots that land 50 rows deep, but how many times do you see guys admire balls that barely do or don't make it to the stands? A base could be the difference between winning and losing.
I can't believe despite the pose and bat flip, he still made it in to third standing.
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I can't believe despite the pose and bat flip, he still made it in to third standing.
Brian McCann thinks the Cardinals are a bunch of hairy wet cats.
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As a Cardinals fan, I don't think there was anything wrong with what he did. Beltran should be mad at himself for not properly backing up the play.
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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304106704579136491224643238
"The game would be better off if more players handled success like Puig, or at the very least, felt like they were free to do so. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be entertaining. Somewhere along the line, U.S. baseball players became the most sensitive athletes in all of sports. Clap once after a hit, and they'll tolerate it. Clap twice, and you're showing them up, an offense punishable by a fastball off your leg the next time you come to the plate."
A-Frickin'-MEN!!
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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304106704579136491224643238
A-Frickin'-MEN!!
If the European Ryder Cup Team and fans can learn to celebrate competition, baseball players should also be able to.
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http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304106704579136491224643238
"The game would be better off if more players handled success like Puig, or at the very least, felt like they were free to do so. It's supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be entertaining. Somewhere along the line, U.S. baseball players became the most sensitive athletes in all of sports. Clap once after a hit, and they'll tolerate it. Clap twice, and you're showing them up, an offense punishable by a fastball off your leg the next time you come to the plate."
A-Frickin'-MEN!!
Agree 100%, but wait until the play is over to celebrate. Don't celebrate when you should be running. Beltran shouldn't be mad at Puig, his pause at home plate could only help the Cardinals.
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Balfour's chirpdown with Victor Martinez woke up his bat. Big hits, big pitches, big runs are the best revenge.
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Balfour's chirpdown with Victor Martinez woke up his bat. Big hits, big pitches, big runs are the best revenge.
This collection of videos if fantastic.
Why don't the Cardinals respect the game?
http://deadspin.com/why-dont-the-st-louis-cardinals-respect-the-game-1445679050 (http://deadspin.com/why-dont-the-st-louis-cardinals-respect-the-game-1445679050)
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Balfour's chirpdown with Victor Martinez woke up his bat. Big hits, big pitches, big runs are the best revenge.
Was it Balfour or Jobu who woke up Victor's bat?
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I'm not sure, but it appears it has gone back to sleep.
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I'm not sure, but it appears it has gone back to sleep.
Martinez and Peralta are doing fine. The rest of the lineup is scuffling. That Hunter through Peralta (2-6) stretch is terrifying. The Red Sox offense are bullies, they crush mediocre pitching but only the singles hitters (Ellsbury, Victorino, Pedroia and Nava, who inexpicably is not playing for Gomes) usually do much damage against the top flight pitchers. And they aren't doing anything, either. Surprised that Verlander threw the only pitch Napoli can hit with two outs and nobody on.
I think tonight we may see another 6-5 game instead of another 1-0. At any rate these games are tense and tremendous.
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Hey, I am enjoying the heck out of these games. Tight, intense. For the last 6 weeks, Detroit's offense has scuffled. IMO, it can be traced to Cabrera's injury. Historically, when the offense has scuffled, he has bailed them out until it turned around. Right now, he can't carry the team. Martinez and Peralta are trying, but the other 7 bats right now are just not in a good place. I am curious if Leyland will move Infante into the leadoff spot and drop Jackson to 8th. That is about the only move he has right now as there just is not a difference maker coming off of that bench.
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http://www.freep.com/article/20131016/SPORTS02/310160148/detroit-tigers-lineup-boston-red-sox
Jackson dropped to 8th. Everybody slides up one slot. I think I would have preferred Infante batting leadoff and Jackson batting 8th, but Leyland gets the big bucks.
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http://www.freep.com/article/20131016/SPORTS02/310160148/detroit-tigers-lineup-boston-red-sox
Jackson dropped to 8th. Everybody slides up one slot. I think I would have preferred Infante batting leadoff and Jackson batting 8th, but Leyland gets the big bucks.
Everyone will make a big deal about the line-up change, but the Tigers won because Jake Peavy had no control. First he couldn't throw a strike and then he found the middle of the plate. After watching so much great pitching in these playoffs it was jarring to see a guy who totally didn't have it. Sox bullpen 5 IP, 4 H 0 R. Pedroia screwed up that double play in the 2nd, which should have kept it to 1-0, but it really didn't matter, since Farrell's MO is to leave the starter in until he has irretrievably screwed up the game or gives up a baserunner or 2 in the 7th or later, whichever comes first. So if the Red Sox got out of the 2nd, Peavy eventually would have been roughed up because he didn't have anything working last night. Must win for the Sox tonight. There is no way Buccholz and Lackey will beat Scherzer and Verlander back to back, even in Boston.
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Holy hell.
http://deadspin.com/how-long-can-you-listen-to-this-cardinals-fans-terribl-1447035171
Go Dodgers.
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Everyone will make a big deal about the line-up change, but the Tigers won because Jake Peavy had no control. First he couldn't throw a strike and then he found the middle of the plate. After watching so much great pitching in these playoffs it was jarring to see a guy who totally didn't have it. Sox bullpen 5 IP, 4 H 0 R. Pedroia screwed up that double play in the 2nd, which should have kept it to 1-0, but it really didn't matter, since Farrell's MO is to leave the starter in until he has irretrievably screwed up the game or gives up a baserunner or 2 in the 7th or later, whichever comes first. So if the Red Sox got out of the 2nd, Peavy eventually would have been roughed up because he didn't have anything working last night. Must win for the Sox tonight. There is no way Buccholz and Lackey will beat Scherzer and Verlander back to back, even in Boston.
I agree with everything here. Peavy wasn't sharp, plus the Tigers have seen him so many times (with the White Sox) that he has nothing to surprise them. Pedroia's bobble was huge. And there wasn't a Tiger anywhere that expected anything other than a bullpen meltdown, even up 7-1. From a Detroit standpoint, tonight is a must win (assuming the game isn't rained out, which is a possibility), because Boston can't be beat twice in a row in Fenway, even with Scherzer and Verlander.
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Holy hell.
http://deadspin.com/how-long-can-you-listen-to-this-cardinals-fans-terribl-1447035171
Go Dodgers.
36 seconds. It would have been 32 if I hadn't hesitate trying to decide whether to stop the video, close my browser or throw my computer out the window.
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Doyers done ; Doyers fans can put away their car flags they bought 2 months ago around here.
I know the Cards and their fans taking grief, but I thought it was pretty classy to see them give Shumaker a standing ovation.
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The Tigers were who I thought they were. Immensely talented tin men. Lacking in fundamentals, lacking in heart. Without Cabrera playing at an insane level, an average team with a phenomenal rotation. I look for Scherzer to be traded in the offseason, probably for a speedy corner outfielder and a couple of solid relievers. Fielder will be shopped but there isn't a market for him with that contract. Re-signing of Infante, Peralta, and V-Mart are the big decisions to be made. I think only one of the 3 come back, and I think it is V-Mart.
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The Tigers were who I thought they were. Immensely talented tin men. Lacking in fundamentals, lacking in heart. Without Cabrera playing at an insane level, an average team with a phenomenal rotation. I look for Scherzer to be traded in the offseason, probably for a speedy corner outfielder and a couple of solid relievers. Fielder will be shopped but there isn't a market for him with that contract. Re-signing of Infante, Peralta, and V-Mart are the big decisions to be made. I think only one of the 3 come back, and I think it is V-Mart.
Kinda taken back by this. Why would they begin to dismantle with Illitch on his way out?
Scherzer would net a decent haul, still think this season won't be repeated. The Yanks could kick the tires on Fielder if they wanted to move him, but I don't see it. They should definitely move on from Peralta, he's bound to fall off the PED cliff soon.
Was really hoping Detroit would knock off Boston. Instead we have to deal with a completely insufferable World Series.
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BTW, kudos to the Red Sox. They played better, more fundamentally sound baseball and deserved to win.
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Kinda taken back by this. Why would they begin to dismantle with Illitch on his way out?
Scherzer would net a decent haul, still think this season won't be repeated. The Yanks could kick the tires on Fielder if they wanted to move him, but I don't see it. They should definitely move on from Peralta, he's bound to fall off the PED cliff soon.
Was really hoping Detroit would knock off Boston. Instead we have to deal with a completely insufferable World Series.
Detroit has been right there for the last 3 years and has been unable to get over the hump. An overall lack of team speed, an erratic bullpen, and a lack of fundamentally sound grinders have been their weaknesses. There really aren't any major impact position players in their farm system who are ready. Castellanos was touted as ready, but he stunk it up in a September call up. So, how to add the right pieces and the right chemistry? Scherzer is the logical big piece because he will be in the final year of his contract, has Boras as his agent, and the Tigers are already paying huge bucks to Cabrera, Fielder, Verlander, and Sanchez. Smyly is ready to step in and be an effective major league starter. A rotation of Verlander, Sanchez, Fister, Porcello, Smyly is very good. Pick up a speedy leftfielder and two good relievers for Max.
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The Tigers have got to be a frustrating team to root for. Everyone picks on Fielder for that game-turning DP, and rightly so, but worse was Victor Martinez first not reaching second on his bases loaded hit (I've seen that ball off the wall in that spot a million times over the last 45 years and that's a standing double 100% of the time, even with catchers or David Ortiz running) and then running right into Pedroia so he didn't have to throw to second to get the out and allowing Fielder to get doubled.
Red Sox got a huge break in the bottom of the 7th, as that 3-2 pitch to Bogaerts could easily have been called a strike, which probably would have led to Leyland keeping Scherzer in the game.
Going into that series, I thought, "Seems like every guy on that team (except Avila) is hitting close to .300, they have 3 of the best 5/6 starters in the AL and a very good 4th starter, how did they only win 93 games playing in the AL Central?" Then you watch them play and you can see how. They are glacially slow, poor baserunners and poor defenders. Even with all that, a healthy Cabrera and that could have been a completely different series.
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The Tigers have got to be a frustrating team to root for. Everyone picks on Fielder for that game-turning DP, and rightly so, but worse was Victor Martinez first not reaching second on his bases loaded hit (I've seen that ball off the wall in that spot a million times over the last 45 years and that's a standing double 100% of the time, even with catchers or David Ortiz running) and then running right into Pedroia so he didn't have to throw to second to get the out and allowing Fielder to get doubled.
Red Sox got a huge break in the bottom of the 7th, as that 3-2 pitch to Bogaerts could easily have been called a strike, which probably would have led to Leyland keeping Scherzer in the game.
Going into that series, I thought, "Seems like every guy on that team (except Avila) is hitting close to .300, they have 3 of the best 5/6 starters in the AL and a very good 4th starter, how did they only win 93 games playing in the AL Central?" Then you watch them play and you can see how. They are glacially slow, poor baserunners and poor defenders. Even with all that, a healthy Cabrera and that could have been a completely different series.
That play was more on Fielder. He needed to put his head down and go home. If he does that, Pedroia's throwing home and, at best, getting only one out.
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Leland is retiring and I've heard from some of my friends back in Detroit that Dombrowski is going to put his name in for the commish job. I have no idea if he'll get it, but that would be a huge blow.
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That play was more on Fielder. He needed to put his head down and go home. If he does that, Pedroia's throwing home and, at best, getting only one out.
Agree that the play was more on Fielder. My syntax wasn't the greatest, but what I meant was that Martinez not getting a double in the first place was a bigger screw up and he had a hand in the DP as well. If he is hustling out of the batter's box he jogs in with a stand-up double. I could not believe he wasn't standing on second when that play finished. He played for the Red Sox for a season plus so he should know the park.
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Interesting for Leyland to Commish job... not sure how well that would work out.
As a Tigers fan I say come on down, Kirk Gibson!
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Interesting for Leyland to Commish job... not sure how well that would work out.
As a Tigers fan I say come on down, Kirk Gibson!
I believe he meant that Dombrowski was putting his own name in for commish, not Leyland's name.
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I believe he meant that Dombrowski was putting his own name in for commish, not Leyland's name.
Dombrowski and the Indians' Mark Shapiro both might have a chance at getting 24/30 MLB owners to vote for them. Most experts seem to be picking Rob Manfred, Selig's current right-hand man.
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The Tigers have got to be a frustrating team to root for. Everyone picks on Fielder for that game-turning DP, and rightly so, but worse was Victor Martinez first not reaching second on his bases loaded hit (I've seen that ball off the wall in that spot a million times over the last 45 years and that's a standing double 100% of the time, even with catchers or David Ortiz running) and then running right into Pedroia so he didn't have to throw to second to get the out and allowing Fielder to get doubled.
Red Sox got a huge break in the bottom of the 7th, as that 3-2 pitch to Bogaerts could easily have been called a strike, which probably would have led to Leyland keeping Scherzer in the game.
Going into that series, I thought, "Seems like every guy on that team (except Avila) is hitting close to .300, they have 3 of the best 5/6 starters in the AL and a very good 4th starter, how did they only win 93 games playing in the AL Central?" Then you watch them play and you can see how. They are glacially slow, poor baserunners and poor defenders. Even with all that, a healthy Cabrera and that could have been a completely different series.
Hence the thoughts that Detroit should trade Scherzer for a speedy outfielder and bullpen help. I think Infante comes back unless he prices himself out of Detroit's range. Peralta is gone, though he says that he would come back to play leftfield. Detroit does not need another below average defender. Benoit comes back on a short-term deal. But you are correct with your assessment of the team. And, if Cabrera was healthy, the series could have been different. Ah, well.
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Hence the thoughts that Detroit should trade Scherzer for a speedy outfielder and bullpen help. I think Infante comes back unless he prices himself out of Detroit's range. Peralta is gone, though he says that he would come back to play leftfield. Detroit does not need another below average defender. Benoit comes back on a short-term deal. But you are correct with your assessment of the team. And, if Cabrera was healthy, the series could have been different. Ah, well.
We will give you Peter Borjous (speedy out fielder) for Scherzer in a heartbeat. We'll throw in some bullpen help as well.
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Can he stay healthy? And how good is the bullpen help? Dombrowski will probably demand and get a king's ransom for Scherzer. But Bourjos is a good start. Him, two quality relievers, one of them preferably lefthanded, and a high level prospect might get it.
It's the kind of decision that drives GM's nuts. Detroit clearly has the core to get close to a championship, and with a couple of breaks, win it all. Do you deal a Scherzer with one year left on his contract, knowing because of your already existing high payroll you simply can't afford to give him what Boras will get for him on an open market? Do you roll the dice on one last great push and live with getting nothing for him?
BTW, Cabrera likely to have surgery for a groin tear. And rest will not heal it.
http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2013/10/detroit_tigers_dave_dombrowski_25.html
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Can he stay healthy? And how good is the bullpen help? Dombrowski will probably demand and get a king's ransom for Scherzer. But Bourjos is a good start. Him, two quality relievers, one of them preferably lefthanded, and a high level prospect might get it.
It's the kind of decision that drives GM's nuts. Detroit clearly has the core to get close to a championship, and with a couple of breaks, win it all. Do you deal a Scherzer with one year left on his contract, knowing because of your already existing high payroll you simply can't afford to give him what Boras will get for him on an open market? Do you roll the dice on one last great push and live with getting nothing for him?
BTW, Cabrera likely to have surgery for a groin tear. And rest will not heal it.
- Trade Scherzer while his stock is as high as it's going to be.
- Rotation Options
- Move Smyly to the rotation
- Bring back a SP in the Scherzer trade
- Sign a low-risk veteran (Feldman, Vargas, etc)
- Sign Choo to play LF, providing speed and OPB.
- Give Castellanos another season playing the OF in the minors before he replaces Hunter in 2015 (Choo then moves to RF, Castellano to LF).
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Do you deal a Scherzer with one year left on his contract, knowing because of your already existing high payroll you simply can't afford to give him what Boras will get for him on an open market?
If it was my decision, I'd go all in for next year. Its always dangerous to put all of your eggs in one basket because an injury to one of your aces could derail everything, but they're building up a lot of innings on Verlander, who knows how long his window is? The Tigers biggest issues are bullpen depth/lack of team speed/defense. Their three best hitters are all 1B/DHs at this point, so if you are going to trade somebody, it should be one of those three guys. Fielder is untradeable unless they eat a big chunk of that contract, which would preclude them from improving their team. So that leaves Victor Martinez or Cabrera. While they could get a great return for Cabrera, I doubt they'd consider it. So trade VMart for a speedy leftfielder, re-sign Peralta (he shouldn't be too expensive) and rotate Peralta/Fielder/Cabrera through 1B/3B/DH so they all stay fresh and lessen injury chances. Of course that Martinez for an outfielder trade may not exist, but you should be able to trade him at worst for a live bullpen arm or two and see what you could get on the FA market to play left.
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If it was my decision, I'd go all in for next year.
Mike Ilitch, Detroit's owner, turns 85 next season and desperately wants to win a WS before the end. He's been "all in" since at least the signing of Prince, and I don't see him having the patience to rebuild.
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And the two previous posts explain why it is tough. IMO, Detroit has starting pitching depth. Smyly and Alvarez, both lefthanded, have shown they can be more than adequate as the 4-5 guy in the rotation. There is no market for Fielder. I can't see bringing back Peralta as a LF. Adding on chicos' thought, Scherzer for Bourjos and Kendrick, or the equivalent probably seals it. Then, neither Peralta nor Infante are re-signed. Castellanos gets one more year in the minors before sliding in when Hunter leaves in a year. Bring back Benoit, find a left-handed set up guy, and all of the pieces are there.
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I'm still trying to figure out what Fielder was doing on 3rd base in that running play. Between that play, the non block of the throw from SS last week, the pop-up, and no RBI's in the last 2+ series, he's definitely had some troubles.
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And the two previous posts explain why it is tough. IMO, Detroit has starting pitching depth. Smyly and Alvarez, both lefthanded, have shown they can be more than adequate as the 4-5 guy in the rotation. There is no market for Fielder. I can't see bringing back Peralta as a LF. Adding on chicos' thought, Scherzer for Bourjos and Kendrick, or the equivalent probably seals it. Then, neither Peralta nor Infante are re-signed. Castellanos gets one more year in the minors before sliding in when Hunter leaves in a year. Bring back Benoit, find a left-handed set up guy, and all of the pieces are there.
James Russell could probably be had from the Cubs in exchange for the Theo Special (i.e. a couple of injured guys who once had promise).
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I'm still trying to figure out what Fielder was doing on 3rd base in that running play. Between that play, the non block of the throw from SS last week, the pop-up, and no RBI's in the last 2+ series, he's definitely had some troubles.
Biggest problem with Fielder is that couldn't catch up with the fastball. If that is a real thing vs. a slump then his next 7 years aren't going to be too much fun.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9DHA2dJ7uQ
Classic Leyland and an old time managerial response to a star player.
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As a Tigers fan I say come on down, Kirk Gibson!
Fat chance - D'backs are very happy with him.
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Fat chance - D'backs are very happy with him.
You're right:
Arizona Diamondbacks chief executive officer Derrick Hall said manager Kirk Gibson will remain with the team Monday, Oct. 21. "I had a conversation with him first thing this morning," Hall said. "My first inclination was to say I would not grant permission (for the Tigers to interview Gibson) because we want him to stay here. But I asked him, 'If that's what you desire, to go interview, that's different.' But he said he wants to stay here. That's all we needed to hear. He's not going anywhere."
http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=876987-diamondbacks-kirk-gibson-staying-put (http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=876987-diamondbacks-kirk-gibson-staying-put)
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Leyland chewing out Bonds....for memory sake
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/10/one_more_time_jim_leyland_chew.html
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I believe he meant that Dombrowski was putting his own name in for commish, not Leyland's name.
that would make more sense
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9DHA2dJ7uQ
Classic Leyland and an old time managerial response to a star player.
Leyland chewing out Bonds....for memory sake
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/10/one_more_time_jim_leyland_chew.html
Anyone else see this video of Leyland and Barry Bonds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNttXpxZ1Kc
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Tigers reportedly hire Brad Ausmus as their new manager.
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Prince Fielder to the Rangers in exchange for Ian Kinsler. Did not see this one coming.
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Not a bad move though.
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Not a bad move though.
Hard to ever fault a team for saving that kind of cash.
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Makes sense for both. Texas opens up a spot in their lineup for Profar and gets a slugging first baseman, Detroit solves a middle infield problem, gets $ for Scherzer and moves Miggy off the hot corner.
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It'll be very interesting to see what happens to Cabrera's numbers without Prince batting behind him. He may not feast so much with Victor Martinez on deck.
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It'll be very interesting to see what happens to Cabrera's numbers without Prince batting behind him. He may not feast so much with Victor Martinez on deck.
The effect of protection is often overstated in baseball. Stats show that there is a negligible difference.
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The effect of protection is often overstated in baseball. Stats show that there is a negligible difference.
No doubt about it, and let's face it - Prince didn't provide what folks presume he did in that regard. There were 36 players in MLB who had a higher OPS than Fielder last season.
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It'll be very interesting to see what happens to Cabrera's numbers without Prince batting behind him. He may not feast so much with Victor Martinez on deck.
An argument could be made that Leyland should have had Cabrera batting behind Prince, because Miggy is going to hit .320 with 30+ dingers with nobody behind him. See 2009. Cabrera's presence means Prince sees more fastballs. VMart is going to hit .300, with HR's in the teens and RBI's around 100. The more interesting question from a Tiger perspective is who plays left and who bats 5th. I think Prince goes to Texas and explodes in that ballpark.
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An argument could be made that Leyland should have had Cabrera batting behind Prince, because Miggy is going to hit .320 with 30+ dingers with nobody behind him. See 2009. Cabrera's presence means Prince sees more fastballs. VMart is going to hit .300, with HR's in the teens and RBI's around 100. The more interesting question from a Tiger perspective is who plays left and who bats 5th. I think Prince goes to Texas and explodes in that ballpark.
It ain't Colorado - but it's not too far off.
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I think Prince goes to Texas and explodes in that ballpark.
Prince looks like he might explode at any moment.
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Their three best hitters are all 1B/DHs at this point, so if you are going to trade somebody, it should be one of those three guys. Fielder is untradeable unless they eat a big chunk of that contract...
I guess I was wrong about them being able to trade Fielder. I think this is a great move for the Tigers. Gets Cabrera to 1B/DH along with Martinez, so he won't be forced to play a position he can't really handle plus he can rest some at DH if he's banged up. I don't love Kinsler, but he's better than Infante and now you don't have to trade Scherzer and still can afford another bat to play 3B (maybe Peralta)?
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An argument could be made that Leyland should have had Cabrera batting behind Prince, because Miggy is going to hit .320 with 30+ dingers with nobody behind him. See 2009. Cabrera's presence means Prince sees more fastballs. VMart is going to hit .300, with HR's in the teens and RBI's around 100. The more interesting question from a Tiger perspective is who plays left and who bats 5th. I think Prince goes to Texas and explodes in that ballpark.
Depends on whether you think Prince had one bad year or if he's declining early, which lots of people suspected he might do because of his... unique body type. I certainly see what Texas is trying to do, and I think it makes sense for them, especially since they can just stick Prince at DH (which Detroit could not really do with VMart there). But man, it feels like a coup for Dombrowski to unload that contract after what could very easily prove to be the best 2 years of that contract.
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Read somewhere that the cat is a vegetarian. Guaranteed he's eatin' grains and too many carbs in general. No wonder he's got F*ckin's physique.
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I guess I was wrong about them being able to trade Fielder. I think this is a great move for the Tigers. Gets Cabrera to 1B/DH along with Martinez, so he won't be forced to play a position he can't really handle plus he can rest some at DH if he's banged up. I don't love Kinsler, but he's better than Infante and now you don't have to trade Scherzer and still can afford another bat to play 3B (maybe Peralta)?
Castellanos is going to be up for 3B, no?
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Castellanos is going to be up for 3B, no?
it's gotta be Castellanos ... Peralta to the Yankees, imho
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Depends on whether you think Prince had one bad year or if he's declining early, which lots of people suspected he might do because of his... unique body type. I certainly see what Texas is trying to do, and I think it makes sense for them, especially since they can just stick Prince at DH (which Detroit could not really do with VMart there). But man, it feels like a coup for Dombrowski to unload that contract after what could very easily prove to be the best 2 years of that contract.
That's it. Seems basically like the choice was either Fielder or Scherzer, Kinsler, & Castellanos. Pretty easy to pull the trigger on that one.
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I did not think there would be a market for Fielder. Dombrowski continues to amaze. I still think one of the starting pitchers gets traded, probably for a left-handed hitting corner outfielder and a reliever. Trade Porcello, use the money saved by the two trades to re-up Scherzer. Castellanos probably gets third. Perhaps another free agent in left. MClouth? Detroit has a number of corner outfielders in their system who are 2-3 years away. Need bullpen help.
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Miggy to DH?
Time for Trout to open up the trophy case for MVP awards....
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Miggy wants to leave Tigers to play with Pujols
http://network.yardbarker.com/all_sports/article_external/is_miguel_cabrera_looking_to_leave_tigers_and_play_with_albert_pujols/15112115
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Miggy to DH?
Time for Trout to open up the trophy case for MVP awards....
He should have won the last 2.
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He should have won the last 2.
He should not have won it last year. He is not the best overall player, he sucks as a third baseman, can't do anything on the base paths....he's a terrific hitter. That's only part of the game. Baseball America named him player of the year again, two straight years...they value the complete package.
It is what it is.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mike-trout-robbed-second-mvp-award-miguel-cabrera-155400421--mlb.html
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He should not have won it last year. He is not the best overall player, he sucks as a third baseman, can't do anything on the base paths....he's a terrific hitter. That's only part of the game. Baseball America named him player of the year again, two straight years...they value the complete package.
It is what it is.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mike-trout-robbed-second-mvp-award-miguel-cabrera-155400421--mlb.html
The award is not "best overall player." The award is Most Valuable Player.
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What would Miggy's WAR have looked like if he was playing 1B these last two years as opposed to 3B? Any way to take that into consideration?
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The award is not "best overall player." The award is Most Valuable Player.
Yeah but the Angels might have finished 4th instead of 3rd without Trout 8-)
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Yeah but the Angels might have finished 4th instead of 3rd without Trout 8-)
Exactly. Trout's WAR is higher, but so what? It would actually be better for the Angels to win 68 without Trout and get a higher draft pick. Without Miggy, the Tigers don't make the playoffs, let alone win the AL Central. Advantage Cabrera.
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Detroit was a .500 team after Miggy got hurt. The Angels weren't a .500 team with Trout. Miggy was clearly more valuable player to his team. Is Dawson the last MVP from a sub .500 team?
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Detroit was a .500 team after Miggy got hurt. The Angels weren't a .500 team with Trout. Miggy was clearly more valuable player to his team. Is Dawson the last MVP from a sub .500 team?
Your argument is basically that Miguel Cabrera is more valuable than Mike Trout because he has better teammates! That makes no sense. I'm sure the Angels would have been a lot better if they got to play in the AL Central and had Verlander, Scherzer and Sanchez pitching regularly.
I would have voted for Cabrera last year because Trout didn't do much for the Angels in April while he was in AAA and I would have voted for Trout this year because the injured Cabrera wasn't so great at the end. I don't know which one is truly the more valuable player, and I don't think anyone else does, either.
This is a great argument because you'll never convince the other side, and they are both truly great players. I will say this, players who do one thing spectacularly well are ususlly overrated, and players with a wide breadth of skills are usually underrated.
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My argument is that with an injured Cabrera, Detroit was a .500 team over the last 6 weeks. With a healthy Trout, the Angels were a .500 team all year. With a healthy Cabrera, Detroit was in the running for best record in the league.
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http://www.gammonsdaily.com/peter-gammons-mike-trout-was-deserving-of-mvp-award/
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/09/mike-trout-wont-win-the-mvp-but-hes-baseballs-most-valuable-player/
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mike-trout--baseball-s-best-player--deserved-mvp-once-again-over-miguel-cabrera-053640882.html
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/ana/los-angeles-angels-outfielder-mike-trout-is-mlbs-best-and-deserves-al-mvp-award?ymd=20131113&content_id=63867172&vkey=news_ana
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My argument is that with an injured Cabrera, Detroit was a .500 team over the last 6 weeks. With a healthy Trout, the Angels were a .500 team all year. With a healthy Cabrera, Detroit was in the running for best record in the league.
Baseball is made up of 25 guys, not one. When you have one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, there isn't much one guy can do to overcome that.
Last year, Trout's team did better than Miggys despite playing in a better division (thus losing out to the playoffs by one game....if if if Trout's team played in last year's AL Central, they would have cruised to the playoffs).
Just the way it goes. If Miggy is a DH moving forward, that ends the MVP stuff. He's a phenomenal hitter.
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My argument is that with an injured Cabrera, Detroit was a .500 team over the last 6 weeks. With a healthy Trout, the Angels were a .500 team all year. With a healthy Cabrera, Detroit was in the running for best record in the league.
But wait ... if he was injured and struggling -- that's all the more reason for him /not/ to get the award (players gotta play, right?)
In the end the writers doled out another 'best hitter on a playoff team' award. Of course there is a helluva lot more to being an everyday player than putting the bat on the ball.
Trout!
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There are currently 2 possible positions Miggy is playing next year. Neither is DH.
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My argument is that with an injured Cabrera, Detroit was a .500 team over the last 6 weeks. With a healthy Trout, the Angels were a .500 team all year. With a healthy Cabrera, Detroit was in the running for best record in the league.
But that's because the other 24 guys on Cabrera's team are way better than the other 24 guys on Trout's team. There is nothing in those three sentences that is relevant to the topic of whether Cabrera or Trout is the better player.
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He should not have won it last year. He is not the best overall player, he sucks as a third baseman, can't do anything on the base paths....he's a terrific hitter. That's only part of the game. Baseball America named him player of the year again, two straight years...they value the complete package.
It is what it is.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mike-trout-robbed-second-mvp-award-miguel-cabrera-155400421--mlb.html
I was actually saying Trout should have won the last 2. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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We can debate Trout vs. Miggy and there are stats to support either guy. But if starting a team, Trout would be the 1st pick. Period.
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We can debate Trout vs. Miggy and there are stats to support either guy. But if starting a team, Trout would be the 1st pick. Period.
I think very few people would disagree with you, even those that voted Miggy as MVP.
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We can debate Trout vs. Miggy and there are stats to support either guy. But if starting a team, Trout would be the 1st pick. Period.
Nobody who knows anything about baseball would argue against you.
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Nobody who knows anything about baseball would argue against you.
There would be a fair number of respected GMs who would take a young arm (Kershaw, Fernandez, Bumgarner, etc) over Trout.
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There would be a fair number of respected GMs who would take a young arm (Kershaw, Fernandez, Bumgarner, etc) over Trout.
I think Machado might have gotten a little run before his injury as well.
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I think Machado might have gotten a little run before his injury as well.
Future all-star definitely - and perennial Gold Glover, but I don't think he is in the same class
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Future all-star definitely - and perennial Gold Glover, but I don't think he is in the same class
OPS+ of 98 and 99 ... promising for a 20/21 year old but light years behind the figures Trout delivers, to wit
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/happy-22nd-birthday-mike-trout-2/ (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/happy-22nd-birthday-mike-trout-2/)
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OPS+ of 98 and 99 ... promising for a 20/21 year old but light years behind the figures Trout delivers
I do think he develops into a 25 homer guy, though.
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That's probably right. I was just thinking of the concerns re Trout's weight at the beginning of the year and how long he projects as a top flight CF - not to mention the relative beating you can take playing center. I didn't look at the #s though, didn't realize there was THAT much of a disparity.
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So Alex Rodriguez "crushed it" in his meeting with MLB today regarding PEDS. If he can be so defiant in the face of what has been p[ut to us (nonspecifically) as overwhelming evidence. Why does he fight on an Braun just accepted punishment?
I've felt the Braun was a relatively passive transgressor and took the penalty in a down season in order to get back on the field. Now, that's a lot of public scrutiny to face and a ruined image, so that's why I say he must have been guilty of something. But A-Rod is facing much more harsh penalties and sounds confident of beating the rap.
1) Is A-Rod right?
2) Might Braun have won if he fought on?
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So Alex Rodriguez "crushed it" in his meeting with MLB today regarding PEDS. If he can be so defiant in the face of what has been p[ut to us (nonspecifically) as overwhelming evidence. Why does he fight on an Braun just accepted punishment?
I've felt the Braun was a relatively passive transgressor and took the penalty in a down season in order to get back on the field. Now, that's a lot of public scrutiny to face and a ruined image, so that's why I say he must have been guilty of something. But A-Rod is facing much more harsh penalties and sounds confident of beating the rap.
1) Is A-Rod right?
2) Might Braun have won if he fought on?
Braun was totally passive.... Except for attacking the MLB urine collector as an anti-Semite and aggressively lying to teammates, the public and business partners.
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Braun was passive?
What?