Seton Hall thoughts

[GGGG]

Haanif was at point, no? 

Maybe they both were, but the times I saw Duane bringing it up I saw him take a couple shots real early.

I would consider a line-up of...

Duane
JJJ
Haanif
Hank
Luke

JJJ looked like he wasn't overwhelmed by the athleticism while Sandy looked a little out of place.  MU was at its best with that line up out there last night, and I know JJJ drives some people nuts, but his game might be better for BE play right now.

And Wally should have played more in the second half.  He isn't a great player by any means, but the guy has major D1 experience.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Maybe they both were, but the times I saw Duane bringing it up I saw him take a couple shots real early.

I would consider a line-up of...

Duane
JJJ
Haanif
Hank
Luke

JJJ looked like he wasn't overwhelmed by the athleticism while Sandy looked a little out of place.  MU was at its best with that line up out there last night, and I know JJJ drives some people nuts, but his game might be better for BE play right now.

And Wally should have played more in the second half.  He isn't a great player by any means, but the guy has major D1 experience.

Agree. Sandy and Haanif had zero rebounds. Duane, Traci and JJJ had one each.  Wally had four.  Why Wally only saw garbage minutes in the 2nd half was a head scratcher.  In the War of Attrition, MU got beat up.

[Silkk the Shaka]

And Derrick Wilson as an on-ball defender.

No.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Maybe they both were, but the times I saw Duane bringing it up I saw him take a couple shots real early.

I would consider a line-up of...

Duane
JJJ
Haanif
Hank
Luke

JJJ looked like he wasn't overwhelmed by the athleticism while Sandy looked a little out of place.  MU was at its best with that line up out there last night, and I know JJJ drives some people nuts, but his game might be better for BE play right now.

And Wally should have played more in the second half.  He isn't a great player by any means, but the guy has major D1 experience.

Yeah JJJ needs more run. He can get a bucket off the dribble in the half court offense, Sandy can't yet (and I really like Sandy). Wojo needs to insert him quicker when the offense goes flat/can't get dribble penetration. He'll figure it out.

[jsglow]

I love coming here after a loss. Fact is, they are playing to form. Some nights they will thrill and other times they will frustrate.

This is a very young team so it is overly ambitious to expect consistent excellence. Also, because they do have talent it is unreasonable to expect persistent failure.

Enjoy the ride gents. This is like golf - find the beauty and overlook the hooks and slices. You'll appreciate it better.

Exactly why I hate golf.

[brewcity77]

Maybe they both were, but the times I saw Duane bringing it up I saw him take a couple shots real early.

I would consider a line-up of...

Duane
JJJ
Haanif
Hank
Luke

JJJ looked like he wasn't overwhelmed by the athleticism while Sandy looked a little out of place.  MU was at its best with that line up out there last night, and I know JJJ drives some people nuts, but his game might be better for BE play right now.

And Wally should have played more in the second half.  He isn't a great player by any means, but the guy has major D1 experience.

I do think that would be a better lineup right now. We need what experience we have out there. My main issue is not having Traci at the point, but he's sloppy right now. I think having Duane and Haney share the point might work, then bring Traci in to help when teams press. If those guys are your 1/2 options, run them like we did last year with Derrick, Carlino, and Duane. All three should be able to get 20+ mpg.

I'm conflicted on Sandy. He had a rough go last night. Whitehead was difficult for him to handle. He's generally done well handling the other team's best offensive player. Not just the cupcakes, either. The problem last night was that he couldn't keep up with Whitehead and he didn't offset the mediocre defense with offense. I don't expect JJ would do a ton better defensively, but at least he brings more on offense.

Another issue, that three-point shooting was woeful. So woeful, it was worse than Woelfel. It wasn't just the percentage, but it felt like many of those were forced. I hate the three-point shots where a guy catches, looks around, then puts up the three. Those never feel in rhythm and rarely seem to fall. With how bad our rebounding was, those were killers. Not only missing out on points, but giving up the possession completely. I wasn't a fan of any of Hank's threes last night, even the one that managed to go in (one had to fall, right?).

[Windyplayer]

I thought Delgado did an excellant job on Fischer. There were several times in the second half where Fischer backed him down and missed the shot. Delgado played great defense without fouling.

Fisher is and will be a force in the BEast, but I would like to see a little more trajectory on those hook shots. A lot of them were just flat. Suspect it's merely a mechanical issue that can be worked out in short order.

[Lighthouse 84]

I also agree that would be a better lineup, with Du and Hanie sharing the point.  I'm a big Du fan but there were times he just stood around the 3 arc waiting and watching the ball being passed around.  He doesn't move much without the ball. 

Sandy looked like he hadn't played much major college ball last night, as opposed to other games this season when he looked comfortable attacking the basket and playing good D.  I thought JjJ attacked the hoop at times and deserves to get a little more run. 

Put me in the camp of those believing this isn't how every game will go.  Shots need to fall and Wojo needs to make adjustments when needed.

[brewcity77]

Fisher is and will be a force in the BEast, but I would like to see a little more trajectory on those hook shots. A lot of them were just flat. Suspect it's merely a mechanical issue that can be worked out in short order.

Agreed. It was really frustrating to watch in the second half how he could consistently back Delgado down then throw up a weak effort that inevitably careened out and into the waiting defenders arms.

[muwarrior69]

No doubt this game was ugly. Ooh! We lost to Seton Hall. Can't get any worse. I happen to think the Pirates have a good team and most of them are only Sophs. Hope we bounce back.

[Class71]

We're overreacting just like we overreacted after Iowa. We have a young team. Nights like this are going to happen. It'll happen again this year too.

Let's see how we play against Georgetown on Saturday. We can win that game. If we come out flat and get rolled over, then maybe we have a problem. But I'm not going to freak out after one bad half.

GU is not that good this year but it is another but weaker test. So far we are 0-2 against good teams this year.. Always hope for the best but realistically, at best NIT.

[bilsu]

Fisher is and will be a force in the BEast, but I would like to see a little more trajectory on those hook shots. A lot of them were just flat. Suspect it's merely a mechanical issue that can be worked out in short order.

He was taking them from to far out as Delgado held his ground on defense. The way I saw it is that Fischer made up his mind he was going to shoot instead of passing the ball out and maybe reestablishing himself.
Other things that went wrong that also can be fixed. Cohen had a bad game highlighted by him getting an offensive foul when he should of passed the ball to Haanif. We were down, but still in the game at that point. Wilson took a couple of quick threes. In some games that is okay, if you have been hitting your threes. However, Wilson was not on so he should of been in less of a hurry to shoot it. This is more of a comment, does Ellenson's strength keep him from getting foul calls? To me he seems to get hit a lot on drives and never seems to get a fouled called.

[MU82]

Henrys stock won't drop regardless if he ever steps on the college court again.
Who, by the way, had these thoughts? I havent read one of them.

I don't have the kind of memory that lets me instantly recall who said what on Scoop, but there have been a few folks who regularly say silly stuff like, "Henry is nowhere near ready for the NBA. He'll be here four years."

Similarly, there have been some folks on here claiming that Luke can be an NBA player. Again, I'm not knocking Luke. I agree with those who say he is the best pure center we've had here in many years, that he has improved and that he can continue to do so. But he will not be an NBAer, no how, no way.

I will submit that the folks who say the above stuff about Henry and about Luke are in the minority. I wasn't trying to paint these as majority opinions, so if that is how it came across I apologize.

Most Scoopers know the score pretty well: Henry will collect a lovely paycheck for many years; Luke might, too, but it will be less lovely and will be paid in foreign dollars.

[Windyplayer]

GU is not that good this year but it is another but weaker test. So far we are 0-2 against good teams this year.. Always hope for the best but realistically, at best NIT.

Very difficult to declare that so early on considering the youth and corresponding potential of this team. If something clicks, this team can rattle off a nice little streak.

[hdog1017]

Seems like Wojo would rather coach with platitudes and meaningless yelling than actually trying to come up with a good gameplan. 

[We R Final Four]

Luke has 1.5 years left at MU. If he continues to develop, I am one of those people who believe that he will get a look from the NBA.

[MerrittsMustache]

Aside from the unforced TOs, the thing that stood out to me the most was how MU's missed shots seemed to affect their defense, particularly Henry's. The team was clearly frustrated offensively in the second half and things snowballed. MU was flustered and lost confidence while SH gained confidence and the rout was on. Time for this team to mature. I think they will.

[Windyplayer]

Seems like Wojo would rather coach with platitudes and meaningless yelling than actually trying to come up with a good gameplan.

Don't confuse game planning with what's discussed during timeouts. I really think the game planning is reinforced before and after timeouts and during stoppages when assistants/Wojo call players over to go over assignments, scouting, etc.

[MU82]

Aside from the unforced TOs, the thing that stood out to me the most was how MU's missed shots seemed to affect their defense, particularly Henry's. The team was clearly frustrated offensively in the second half and things snowballed. MU was flustered and lost confidence while SH gained confidence and the rout was on. Time for this team to mature. I think they will.

I also have noticed that certain players get back better on defense after they have made shots than after they have missed. Henry and Duane leap to mind there.

IMHO, they are also the two players who are most likely to think, "It's my turn to shoot now," if they haven't had a chance to do so in several possessions.

I'd chalk it up to immaturity, but many NBA players also have similar characteristics. They're just "wired" that way.

[willie warrior]

Seems like Wojo would rather coach with platitudes and meaningless yelling than actually trying to come up with a good gameplan.

Wojo is a good recruiter, but his gametime coaching still has huge question marks. There is plenty of talent on this team, and they are mostly guys he brought in/or wanted. This is the year that his game coaching can be fairly evaluated. I guess MU already believes he is the man, judging by giving him an extension. Wojo has all he has wanted, so now he needs to produce. Not a very auspicious start against SH!

[MerrittsMustache]

Don't confuse game planning with what's discussed during timeouts. I really think the game planning is reinforced before and after timeouts and during stoppages when assistants/Wojo call players over to go over assignments, scouting, etc.

Exactly. When the TV broadcast shows an "inside the huddle," they are only allowed to show the rah-rah stuff. They aren't going to broadcast the x's and o's.

[Norm]

I think the contract extension came way too early for Wojo. Not sure how this team manages to win a game against Xavier, Providence, Butler and Villanova. Doubt they will win on the road at Georgetown, Seton Hall, or Creighton. Will probably split between St. John's and DePaul. I hope I'm wrong, but this is probably another 8th place to 10th place finish again this year in the Big East.

[Windyplayer]

I think the contract extension came way too early for Wojo. Not sure how this team manages to win a game against Xavier, Providence, Butler and Villanova. Doubt they will win on the road at Georgetown, Seton Hall, or Creighton. Will probably split between St. John's and DePaul. I hope I'm wrong, but this is probably another 8th place to 10th place finish again this year in the Big East.

I actually think this team is going to play really well in DC. Aside from just playing poorly last night, nothing was falling, can calls were going against us. Wojo will have these guys raring to go and law of averages will come to the fore.

[brewcity77]

Way too much being made of the contract extension. Way too much.

If Marquette wants to fire him, they still can. That's a positive. When Wojo walks into a recruit's house, he can assure them he'll be here for 6 years. That's a positive (and one UW can't promise). It indicates a healthy relationship between the coaching staff and management. That's a positive. It helps reinforce Wojo's loyalty. That's a positive.

The ONLY negative is that if Marquette wants to fire him, it will probably cost a little more. This doesn't guarantee he's here 6 more years, this doesn't tie Marquette to him for the length of the contract.

I bet you can count on one hand the number of coaches that annual leave jobs when contracts expire. Most are fired or leave before their contact runs out. The contract is a good move on every level.

[MarquetteDano]

1. Whoever said Luke had an NBA career? And if he doesn't, so what?

2. Not sure why Fisher is getting the brunt of the complaints here.  12 points, 9 rebounds, 6 of 11 shooting.On the other hand- Henry: 3 for 14, Duane: 0 -4 from 3, Haanif and Sandy: o rebounds between them.

Agreed.  Cheatham got smoked all game on the defensive end and so did Sandy.  Sandy was atrocious on the offensive end as well.  I can remember twice where he brought his defender over to the person with the ball and we had a turnover.