To frat or not to frat

[spartan3186]

Thats an ignorant comment, how many SigEps do you actually know?

[mu-rara]

No more Rabbits.

What happened to the Bunnies?

[only a warrior]

Look at his board handle - should be changed to just "strokin".  What an ignorant comment.

Thats an ignorant comment, how many SigEps do you actually know?

[Strokin 3s]

During my days at Marquette I knew enough to know that I did not need to know anymore.

[MU gimp ONE]

actually i would agree with Strokin 3's.  Personally i knew of a bunch of frat kids and didn't really care for any of them.  when they were separate from their "brothers" they were tolerable.  put them all together, like at one of their "awesome" parties, they acted like complete d-bags.

to respond to one of the original posts regarding fun activities you do with your frat brothers on an annual basis... i still do most of those with my friends and I'm 4 years removed from college.  I would actually put money that my group of friends are are a closer group of guys than most if not all frat brothers are.  we chose eachother because we got along, not because we all paid "dues."  we also don't have that homosexual hand shake crap.  

when i was in college Sig Ep's definitely headed up the list for being douches.  

[sigep80]

You shouldn't be talking about "homosexual" hand shakes with your icon - a fat man in underware

See,  I can be just as nasty as the rest of you who lump people together and are disdainful of them. 

Please grow up and treat people as individuals, regardless of their affiliations, race or sexual preference. 

[Hards Alumni]

look dude, you are obviously just going to say what you want and think what you want without understanding where everyone else is coming from.

We do understand that you have friends with and are friends with your 'guys'

it has just been a GENERAL (NOT PERSONAL, READ: NOT PERSONAL) opinion among most people here that frat people are GENERALLY douchey.

We probably would treat people as individuals if that is what this thread was about... but OBVIOUSLY its about FRATS (aka GROUPS).

[MU gimp ONE]

You shouldn't be talking about "homosexual" hand shakes with your icon - a fat man in underware

See,  I can be just as nasty as the rest of you who lump people together and are disdainful of them. 

Please grow up and treat people as individuals, regardless of their affiliations, race or sexual preference. 

wow, now you are calling Homer Simpson a homosexual?  you frat guys are really stooping to a new low.  Also, since when does drinking beer in your underwear make you gay?  i thought it was called being a football fan. 

seriously SigEP, you want to talk about being individuals??? how come if there was a hint of any trouble, frat guys need to get 15 of their "brothers" to help.  usually all they do is make it worse thanks to their douchebag mob mentality.  15 on 1, sounds like they would handle things as individuals.  I guess you guys also showed a lot of individuality by joining a group where you had to do organized activities that are set up by one guy... that's pretty much the definition of being an individual.  (i don't use the sarcasm text, sorry)

[Henry Sugar]

it has just been a GENERAL (NOT PERSONAL, READ: NOT PERSONAL) opinion among most people here that frat people people in groups are GENERALLY douchey.

We probably would treat people as individuals if that is what this thread was about... but OBVIOUSLY its about FRATS (aka GROUPS).

I fixed your post for accuracy.  All groups, not just fraternities, are subject to douchebaggery.

All groups involve some sort of common identification with each other and with a common ideal.  This common identification results in conformity via social norms or informational influence.  (In other words, what is accepted conduct and a view of reality within the group).  As a result, all groups can result in the negative behaviors associated with GroupThink.  Here are some behaviors of GroupThink:

• Belief in Inherent Morality of the In-Group
• Stereotypes of Out-Groups
• Pressuring Deviates to Conform
• Illusion of Unanimity

A fraternity is particularly susceptible to these types of behaviors, especially when you add booze and 18-22 year olds together.  However, that makes them no different than any other group, be it the band, rugby team, basketball team, young republicans/democrats, stoners, ten guys living in a Row house, or even people posting on MUScoop.  Pick any group (formal or not) and I can probably show you that they're a bunch of douchebags, especially if that group has a pre-determined set of stereotypical qualities.

Furthermore, the GroupThink mentality that people ascribe to fraternities is actually being represented in this same thread.  Inherent morality of the In-Group (non-frats), stereotyping of the out-group (frats are lame), pressuring deviates (MUScoop frat supporters) to conform, and an Illusion of Unanimity (the poll).

You are what you hate.  You're probably also a douchebag (but so am I). 

[MU gimp ONE]

agreed....
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.
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henry sugar is a d-bag.   Everyone has a little d-bag in them, it's just a matter of to what extent and how often they show it.  Frats i believe tend to have a larger concentration of d-baggery and tend to show it more often than others. 

[Henry Sugar]

agreed....
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.
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henry sugar is a d-bag.   Everyone has a little d-bag in them, it's just a matter of to what extent and how often they show it.  Frats i believe tend to have a larger concentration of d-baggery and tend to show it more often than others. 

coming from the douchebag with a Simpsons avatar and a "Spaceballs" quote.

Were there just too many "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" quotes from which to choose?

Tell me straight... were you in the band? 

[MURFC]

I fixed your post for accuracy.  All groups, not just fraternities, are subject to douchebaggery.

All groups involve some sort of common identification with each other and with a common ideal.  This common identification results in conformity via social norms or informational influence.  (In other words, what is accepted conduct and a view of reality within the group).  As a result, all groups can result in the negative behaviors associated with GroupThink.  Here are some behaviors of GroupThink:

• Belief in Inherent Morality of the In-Group
• Stereotypes of Out-Groups
• Pressuring Deviates to Conform
• Illusion of Unanimity

A fraternity is particularly susceptible to these types of behaviors, especially when you add booze and 18-22 year olds together.  However, that makes them no different than any other group, be it the band, rugby team, basketball team, young republicans/democrats, stoners, ten guys living in a Row house, or even people posting on MUScoop.  Pick any group (formal or not) and I can probably show you that they're a bunch of douchebags, especially if that group has a pre-determined set of stereotypical qualities.

Furthermore, the GroupThink mentality that people ascribe to fraternities is actually being represented in this same thread.  Inherent morality of the In-Group (non-frats), stereotyping of the out-group (frats are lame), pressuring deviates (MUScoop frat supporters) to conform, and an Illusion of Unanimity (the poll).

You are what you hate.  You're probably also a douchebag (but so am I). 

Absolutely true.  I was captain of the men's rugby club when I was at MU and there was some extreme group think there.  I am sure we came off to many people as barbaric, and a bit psychotic, but I do not ever recall the word  "docuhebag" being used to describe our club members.  While I am sure things were far different in the 70's/80's, in general, the SigEp's were really massive d-bags in the late 90's and early 00's.  I mean...seriously...in general...those guys sucked.

[drewm88]

coming from the douchebag with a Simpsons avatar and a "Spaceballs" quote.

Were there just too many "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" quotes from which to choose?

Tell me straight... were you in the band? 

Hilarious.

[sigep80]

Sugar, very well said, thank you.

[Strokin 3s]

DoooooouuuuchheBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG!!

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Absolutely true.  I was captain of the men's rugby club when I was at MU and there was some extreme group think there.  I am sure we came off to many people as barbaric, and a bit psychotic, but I do not ever recall the word  "docuhebag" being used to describe our club members.  While I am sure things were far different in the 70's/80's, in general, the SigEp's were really massive d-bags in the late 90's and early 00's.  I mean...seriously...in general...those guys sucked.

I can vouch that all the sigeps I have encountered since I started school (Fall 06) have been pretty good guys. I even had one of them in a class I was a TA for and he was pretty smart. (Note: I am not a sig ep)

I know that their chapter had a huge turnover the year before I got to MU. (I think they got in trouble or something and the whole chapter got kicked out. I don't know for sure, it was before my time) This might be why you don't like the sig eps from about 2000.

Also, I can personally say the type of guy in a particular fraternity can change A LOT over a few years. The alums from my fraternity today have different personalities than the alums from 5 years ago, and different personalities from 30 years ago. You may not have liked the sigeps/triangles/sig phis/delta chis from when you were in school in 1983/1993/2003, but I don't think that gives people the right to instantlly call all of them d-bags.

[MU gimp ONE]

coming from the douchebag with a Simpsons avatar and a "Spaceballs" quote.

Were there just too many "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" quotes from which to choose?

Tell me straight... were you in the band? 

i guess two can play this game... this coming from a guy with a The Office avatar and no quote...  really, please comeback with something a little better.  but then again, I'm not expecting much from a frat guy.  Do you guys have to get taught how to make childish comments or inside jokes then turn and high five the closest d-bag frat brother near you?  or does that just come natural which is why you all gravitate to hanging out with one another.

i was probably the farthest thing from being in the band, but i can tell you that i would rather hang out with those kids then frat guys.  atleast band kids don't tend to judge and look down on others. 

so settle down d-bag

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I fixed your post for accuracy.  All groups, not just fraternities, are subject to douchebaggery.

All groups involve some sort of common identification with each other and with a common ideal.  This common identification results in conformity via social norms or informational influence.  (In other words, what is accepted conduct and a view of reality within the group).  As a result, all groups can result in the negative behaviors associated with GroupThink.  Here are some behaviors of GroupThink:

• Belief in Inherent Morality of the In-Group
• Stereotypes of Out-Groups
• Pressuring Deviates to Conform
• Illusion of Unanimity

A fraternity is particularly susceptible to these types of behaviors, especially when you add booze and 18-22 year olds together.  However, that makes them no different than any other group, be it the band, rugby team, basketball team, young republicans/democrats, stoners, ten guys living in a Row house, or even people posting on MUScoop.  Pick any group (formal or not) and I can probably show you that they're a bunch of douchebags, especially if that group has a pre-determined set of stereotypical qualities.

Furthermore, the GroupThink mentality that people ascribe to fraternities is actually being represented in this same thread.  Inherent morality of the In-Group (non-frats), stereotyping of the out-group (frats are lame), pressuring deviates (MUScoop frat supporters) to conform, and an Illusion of Unanimity (the poll).

You are what you hate.  You're probably also a douchebag (but so am I). 

+1

We had an old saying in school (I can't remember who said it first)... but it goes something like:

"big groups of guys don't like other big groups of guys"

The first thing you do at a house party/bar is size up the "dudes" who just walked in. "Check out these dudes."

I don't know why, but everybody did it.

[RawdogDX]

I fixed your post for accuracy.  All groups, not just fraternities, are subject to douchebaggery.

All groups involve some sort of common identification with each other and with a common ideal.  This common identification results in conformity via social norms or informational influence.  (In other words, what is accepted conduct and a view of reality within the group).  As a result, all groups can result in the negative behaviors associated with GroupThink.  Here are some behaviors of GroupThink:

• Belief in Inherent Morality of the In-Group
• Stereotypes of Out-Groups
• Pressuring Deviates to Conform
• Illusion of Unanimity

A fraternity is particularly susceptible to these types of behaviors, especially when you add booze and 18-22 year olds together.  However, that makes them no different than any other group, be it the band, rugby team, basketball team, young republicans/democrats, stoners, ten guys living in a Row house, or even people posting on MUScoop.  Pick any group (formal or not) and I can probably show you that they're a bunch of douchebags, especially if that group has a pre-determined set of stereotypical qualities.

Furthermore, the GroupThink mentality that people ascribe to fraternities is actually being represented in this same thread.  Inherent morality of the In-Group (non-frats), stereotyping of the out-group (frats are lame), pressuring deviates (MUScoop frat supporters) to conform, and an Illusion of Unanimity (the poll).

You are what you hate.  You're probably also a douchebag (but so am I). 

+1

Go ask any group you despise and they probably despise you (with the exception of people from IL not despising people from WI).  If you think you are correct and they are wrong they think the same thing.  And you are probably both right when you call the other group douche bags.

[MUCrisco]

I'm a SigEp.  I was at Marquette in the late 90's.  I don't consider myself to be a douchebag and I didn't have to buy any of my friends.  Our parties, as described by the basketball teams, were by far the best on campus.  People threw rocks through our doors because they were so upset they weren't allowed in.  Quite frankly, it's gutless to call people douchebags on a message board.  Whenever my group of friends and I are at weddings or other social events, people always comment to me how jealous they were how close were were.  They only had a few friends that they kept in contact with after college.  I consider myself to be close with at least 50 guys.  We also have a very diverse group of friends from whom I've learned a lot because they have a different perspective about things.  If you didn't want to be in a fraternity, that's your choice.  I'm confident in saying you missed out.

[Hards Alumni]

I'm a SigEp.  I was at Marquette in the late 90's.  I don't consider myself to be a douchebag and I didn't have to buy any of my friends.  Our parties, as described by the basketball teams, were by far the best on campus.  People threw rocks through our doors because they were so upset they weren't allowed in.  Quite frankly, it's gutless to call people douchebags on a message board.  Whenever my group of friends and I are at weddings or other social events, people always comment to me how jealous they were how close were were.  They only had a few friends that they kept in contact with after college.  I consider myself to be close with at least 50 guys.  We also have a very diverse group of friends from whom I've learned a lot because they have a different perspective about things.  If you didn't want to be in a fraternity, that's your choice.  I'm confident in saying you missed out.

Thank you for proving every point we have been trying to make.

[MU gimp ONE]

I'm a SigEp.  I was at Marquette in the late 90's.  I don't consider myself to be a douchebag and I didn't have to buy any of my friends.  Our parties, as described by the basketball teams, were by far the best on campus.  People threw rocks through our doors because they were so upset they weren't allowed in.  Quite frankly, it's gutless to call people douchebags on a message board.  Whenever my group of friends and I are at weddings or other social events, people always comment to me how jealous they were how close were were.  They only had a few friends that they kept in contact with after college.  I consider myself to be close with at least 50 guys.  We also have a very diverse group of friends from whom I've learned a lot because they have a different perspective about things.  If you didn't want to be in a fraternity, that's your choice.  I'm confident in saying you missed out.

you're right crisco... you are so much better than the average person. 

hate to break it to you, but the basketball players also used to say our parties were the best on campus and i wasn't in a frat.  pretty sure they said that to every party host that provided large amounts of freshman girls. 

come to think of it, we had many parties where we were so full that we turned people away... yet no rocks thrown at our house.  hmm interesting.  maybe that says something about the people that were turning them away.

I'd like to know exactly how close you can really stay with 50 guys?  unless you all still live in the same house to where you can do your elephant walk everyday.  either that or you must have one heck of a phone bill and more hours in the day than me.

i would gladly meet you to call you a d-bag to your face, but I'm sure you would show up with 15 other guys, because i have never met a frat guy that can fight his own battle.  just an observation, they might exist, but i just haven't met one yet.

[Strokin 3s]

Oh snap, I do believe that was an open handed b1tch slap to the face Ari Gold style!

[MUCrisco]

Actually, I lived with the basketball players in Humphrey and I was good friends with them.  This wasn't something they said to me just at our parties.  Sorry if you guys had bad experienced with people in fraternities and you have a lot of anger from it.  You have to get over it.  But hey, if it makes you guys feel better calling me a douchebag, go nuts.

[reinko]

One point that has not been brought up, is the fact the many frats make pledges do humiliating and stupid things in the name of "brotherhood". 

Drinking until puking, washing cars, cleaning houses, carrying books, running errands, are just a few of things I know some of my friends had to do in frats during while they pledged.

Making people doing crap work in the name of "brotherhood" is d-baggy.  It's just a giant cycle.  Frats guys make freshmen to do dumb things, so that one day, you can make freshmen do dumb things. 

Now do all frats do this, no.  But would I guess that many do?  Yes.