Author Topic: Does Home Field not matter to Milwaukee? (Read 11564 times)

MU Chi_IL · « **on:** July 31, 2008, 09:54:35 AM »

After watching two of the Cubs V Brewers games it has become clear to me that the fine people of the greater Milwaukee area do not really care to protect home field. I thought it was bad when folks let Badger fans into our building, but after seeing how many cubs fans were in the stands for a critical series it is clear that dollar is more important to folks.

Henry Sugar · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2008, 10:37:09 AM »

<lights fuse. steps away.>

and seriously, don't buy tickets for Wisconsin fans!

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2008, 12:30:13 PM »

problem is this:

Cubs fans can drive 1 hour north or 1 hour towards chicago to watch a game, and a lot of them will choose to watch their team where ticket prices are cheaper. These fans buy the tickets early in the season because they will go no matter what.

Brewers fans have been tormented by seasons of awful teams and are willing to take a "wait and see" approach. By the time the team is good a good portion of the tickets for those games are sold to Cubs fans who bought their tickets the day they went on sale.

It isn't like you can walk up to Miller Park on gameday of the Brewers/Cubs series and buy anything but a standing room only ticket. As for people selling off their season tickets, I'm not sure you understand how Milwaukee does their ticket packages. In Wrigley (I'm told) 3/4 of the tickets are owned by season ticket holders. In Milwaukee, on the other hand, probably less than 1/4 of the tickets are owned by season ticket holders... and those that are willing to buy those season tickets are usually fanatical and won't sell their tickets to Cubs fans. BUT, in Milwaukee we have these "9-pack" and "20-pack) ticket packages where you get stated amount of games... you aren't a season ticket holder. I'm sure some of these people sold their tickets (since selling the cubs series pays for the rest of the tickets for the year).

I'd say that most of the reason the Brewers can't hold down Miller Park is because of zealous Cubs fans buying up tickets on day one, and a lot of casual Brewers fans find out the games are sold out when they finally decide they want to go.

RawdogDX · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2008, 12:57:05 PM »

and becase they are one of the few games that people can scalp so they do. You should talk to chico, he has tons of ideas on how to keep people from buying tickets.

MU Chi_IL · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:19:03 PM »

"Brewers fans have been tormented by seasons of awful teams" - I believe Cubs fans created the model for this, but you still see sell outs when they are bad. It stinks for the brewers that the fans only care when they are good.

AS long as we are touching on the topic of Wisconsin loyalties, I am also amazed at how easily people seem to have turned on Favre in Wisconsin, the guy was the face of the packers for over a decade and now people are happy to see him go for Rodgers, yikes. He single handedly beat the bears for my entire time at Marquette and I would welcome him in Chicago.

bma725 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:23:45 PM »

Quote from: MU Chi_IL on July 31, 2008, 01:19:03 PM

AS long as we are touching on the topic of Wisconsin loyalties, I am also amazed at how easily people seem to have turned on Favre in Wisconsin, the guy was the face of the packers for over a decade and now people are happy to see him go for Rodgers, yikes. He single handedly beat the bears for my entire time at Marquette and I would welcome him in Chicago.

There comes a point when the fact that the guy is an a**hat finally outweighs anything he did or may do on the field. People around here put up with him for 15 years, but the act has finally worn thin.

Henry Sugar · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:27:00 PM »

Is the support (or lack thereof) from local fans a reason why Major League Soccer stays away from Milwaukee?

MU Chi_IL · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:30:59 PM »

a**hat or not, he give the pack the best chance to win today, and they were a few plays away from the superbowl last year with the a**hat under center. The chances in sports to win a title are few and far between so why not open the position up for competition and if Rodgers wins out right all is settled.

Also, this has to be messing with Rodgers head, which is not what you want in your future QB.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:37:39 PM »

Quote from: RawdogDX on July 31, 2008, 12:57:05 PM

and becase they are one of the few games that people can scalp so they do. You should talk to chico, he has tons of ideas on how to keep people from buying tickets.

Rick (Schlessinger) is in a tough spot. I worked with Rick when we were both at the Angels. He's a very sharp guy. It's one thing to contain tickets for a MU game with limited seating in an arena, quite another when it's multiple games in a stadium that size.

For MU, they could pull it off if they wanted to get a bit more serious about it. For the Brewers, they're in a tough spot in a market that has always claimed to be rabid sports fans, but they talk more then they walk....I don't mean that as a slam, it's just reality. MU, Bucks, Brewers have had some lean years in attendance (yes, some of the teams are doing well now, but unlike some markets Milwaukee has to have a winner for people to show up, if they are competitive but not quite at the top, then fans don't come in droves like they do for some other teams). This is not exclusive to Milwaukee as many cities are like this, so again it's not a slam.

They already charge more for these tickets and they put them in the mini-ticket plans I believe. That's about what they are limited with unless they go totally draconian and don't sell them individually without forcing some other anchor to them....like forcing purchase of 2 other games or something.

JSwarriors08 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2008, 01:39:29 PM »

As a native Wisonconsonian and a long time Brewers Fan, I am equally as perplexed by the apparent passivity of Brewers fans toward this rivalry. I get fired up and excited when the Cubs are in town (especially amidst the buzz of a race for the division), but I feel as though I am part of the minority. I have watched the series from home, and been continuously amazed at the "Let's go Cubbies" chants that plague Miller Park. I wish Brewer fans would man up and defend their stadium, but it seems they are okay with letting the series pass them by.

I believe this is most probably, as Hards noted, a problem of fan disinterest. Many Milwaukee fans have only recently started to care again (aka the Bandwagon Effect), and won't rush to buy the tickets until they make sure the Crew is having a good year. I can't say I approve.

As for Favre, I think the fans (and I speak as one of those affected) turned on him as soon as he said he wanted to go to the Vikings. I don't blame them.

muwarrior87 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:08:03 PM »

i believe we are Wisconsinites

JSwarriors08 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:30:26 PM »

I thought Wisconsonians was more enjoyable to pronounce.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:45:19 PM »

Quote from: MU Chi_IL on July 31, 2008, 01:19:03 PM

"Brewers fans have been tormented by seasons of awful teams" - I believe Cubs fans created the model for this, but you still see sell outs when they are bad. It stinks for the brewers that the fans only care when they are good.

This is the biggest fallacy ever, that the Cubs have such great fans. I guess you forget that Wrigley only started drawing a lot of fans once the marketing gurus looked to turn it into more of an experience than a baseball game (genius move). Once Wrigley started being the cool place to be attenance skyrocketed. Prior to 1984, the Cubs had never averaged more than 21,000 fans a season. FYI, after rennoavations were completed in the late 20s, Wrigley held 38,396. Where were all those cubs "fans" in the lean years of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and early 80s? In fact the 90s and 2000s are the first decades the Cubs have significantly outdrew Milwaukee's baseball team. In addition, the Cubs haven't outdrawn St Louis (America's best baseball city) in the past 6 decades, including this one, even though they had similar sized stadiums for all years except last year.

All info derived from baseball almanac.com

Cubs average attendance by decade:

1950    11,242
1960    10,900
1970    16,908
1980    21,705
1990    29,594
2000    37,125

Milwaukee average attendance by decade (only years with a team included):

1953    25,831
1960    11,812
1970    13,795
1980    20,766
1990    19,034
2000    27,057

Cardinals average attendance by decade (only years with a team included):

1950    12,991
1960    17,383
1970    18,973
1980    29,170
1990    32,924
2000    40,677

jmayer1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2008, 02:46:05 PM »

oops, i hit the wrong button

JSwarriors08 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:07:06 PM »

RJax55 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:20:57 PM »

Jmayer-

If people are only fans of the Cubs due to the marketing gurus creation of the "Wrigley Field experience" ... Why then, is half the crowd at Miller Park filled with Cubs fans?

Henry Sugar · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:29:32 PM »

Quote from: RJax55 on July 31, 2008, 03:20:57 PM

Jmayer-

If people are only fans of the Cubs due to the marketing gurus creation of the "Wrigley Field experience" ... Why then, is half the crowd at ~~Miller Park~~ almost every road game filled with Cubs fans?

fixed

jmayer1 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:42:16 PM »

The Cubs have a huge fan base now, nobody is denying that. I think the reason you see them at other ballparks is people realize it has become awfully hard to get tickets at Wrigley. As such, those fans that move away tend to go to Cubs games locally or fans that have a tough time getting tickets attend games while on vacation / or make a vacation out of it. This is a phenomenon you see with most of the big fans bases (red sox, yankees, packers, red wings, cowboys, cardinals...etc). However, I believe the primary reason the Cubs have gotten such a large fan base (other than the fact they have been on WGN for so long) is that the Cubs have done a phenomenal of marketing the team and making it cool to be a Cubs fan. It sure isn't the long tradition of winning and you can see that only 25 years ago, fans weren't turning out in droves as they do now. I would imagine (I can only speculate here due to my age) that you didn't see many Cubs fans showing up at Braves/Brewers games or other team's ballparks before this fan renaissance. I was attempting to disprove in my prior post the point that the Cubs fans have always supported their team win or lose throughout their history, which is simply not the case, although it has been recently.

MU Chi_IL · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2008, 03:45:25 PM »

I guess they have only been really supported for the last 20 years, I stand corrected...but let's consider a couple of things a) The cubs had no night baseball before 1988 - around the time we see a spike in attendance numbers b) Wrigley Field is the fourth-smallest ball park in the league c) in the 1970 Wrigleyville was a hillbilly hell hole, where you were likely to get the crap kicked out of you d) chicago has a hell of a lot more going on at any given day, as well as a SECOND major league team.

If all it takes is marketing, why don't the Brewers hire some marketing people? I think the problem is Milwaukee fans don't care to support anything but a winner.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2008, 04:12:48 PM »

Quote from: MU Chi_IL on July 31, 2008, 03:45:25 PM

I guess they have only been really supported for the last 20 years, I stand corrected...but let's consider a couple of things a) The cubs had no night baseball before 1988 - around the time we see a spike in attendance numbers b) Wrigley Field is the fourth-smallest ball park in the league c) in the 1970 Wrigleyville was a hillbilly hell hole, where you were likely to get the crap kicked out of you d) chicago has a hell of a lot more going on at any given day, as well as a SECOND major league team.

If all it takes is marketing, why don't the Brewers hire some marketing people? I think the problem is Milwaukee fans don't care to support anything but a winner.

a) That is a valid point.
b) It is now, but it hasn't always been. Basically the same size as Miller Park. Also, if the stadium isn't filled to capacity and there are plenty of good seats available, Im not sure how this matters.
c) Its not like the Brewers/Braves play right downtown. I though Wrigleyville used to be more of a working class neighborhood. Not sure how this affected attendance too much. The Sox had seasons where they drew well despite location.
d) That's true, but they also have a hell of a lot more people.

I beleive the Cubs were marketed fanstastcally and a groundswell of support and fan momemntum/bandwagon has led them to their current fan base, not a longstanding tradition of fantastic success and support.

You act like Milwaukee is a minor league city but yet the Bears don't draw very good compared to other teams, the Sox have had their struggles with fan support when they haven't been good, and the Bulls didn't draw before MJ.

MU Chi_IL · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2008, 04:40:40 PM »

Quote

You act like Milwaukee is a minor league city

Milwaukee is a great city, especially in the summer. My point was the fair people of Milwaukee don't like to defend home court/field, that is all. We have beaten that horse in the Badgers in the building threads and it was very clear in this Cubs series.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2008, 04:47:14 PM »

Quote from: MU Chi_IL on July 31, 2008, 04:40:40 PM

Milwaukee is a great city, especially in the summer. My point was the fair people of Milwaukee don't like to defend home court/field, that is all. We have beaten that horse in the Badgers in the building threads and it was very clear in this Cubs series.

You're right, the ratio of Brewers to Cubs fans at that series was pathetic.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 07, 2008, 10:29:22 AM »

Quote from: RJax55 on July 31, 2008, 03:20:57 PM

Jmayer-

If people are only fans of the Cubs due to the marketing gurus creation of the "Wrigley Field experience" ... Why then, is half the crowd at Miller Park filled with Cubs fans?

I completely agree RJax.

I'd say a good portion of Cubs fans that came up to Miller Park have gone to Wrigley this year as well. The reason they came up (all on weekdays mind you) is to support the team.

EDIT: Also I think tickets were still available for Brewer fans. The CC game had the highest amount of Brewer fans so it was clear they came to see him. Also I bought all of my tickets the day before the game. While I chose to buy standing room, seats were still available for other sections of the park.

TallTitan34 · « **Reply #23 on:** August 07, 2008, 10:44:49 AM »

Quote from: jmayer1 on July 31, 2008, 02:45:19 PM

Where were all those cubs "fans" in the lean years of the 50s, 60s, 70s, and early 80s? In fact the 90s and 2000s are the first decades the Cubs have significantly outdrew Milwaukee's baseball team. In addition, the Cubs haven't outdrawn St Louis (America's best baseball city) in the past 6 decades, including this one, even though they had similar sized stadiums for all years except last year.

A. Busch Stadium (the one before the one they are at now) had a capacity of around 52,000 before they put all that stuff in their upper deck around 1998. Even after they did that their capacity was 49,676. Even after the Cubs expanded the bleachers at Wrigley in 2006 the capacity only made it up to 41,118. St. Louis has always had a far larger ballpark.

B. I will give you though that the Cubs didn't draw well in the 60's, 70's, and 80's but based on your numbers no one did.

C. I'll never understand Brewers fans claiming the Braves World Series. By that logic the Cubs won a World Series in 2005. Same city. Different franchise.

🏀 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 07, 2008, 10:56:09 AM »

Quote from: TallTitan34 on August 07, 2008, 10:44:49 AM

C. I'll never understand Brewers fans claiming the Braves World Series. By that logic the Cubs won a World Series in 2005. Same city. Different franchise.

Yep.

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Author Topic: Does Home Field not matter to Milwaukee? (Read 11564 times)

JSwarriors08

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