Best class in 25 years!!

[Pakuni]

Which class do you consider Buzz's first class?  Is it McMorrow, Butler, Fulce, Otule?  Or, the '09 class?  I think you have to give Buzz the '08 signees.  In three months, Buzz has locked up two classes.  In six, we may have three years signed up.

I agree the '08 class is a Buzz Williams class. Without Buzz, MU almost certainly doesn't get Fulce or Otule and quite possibly (likely?) both back out of their commitments if someone else were hired to replace. Butler and McMorrow obviously are Buzz recruits, having committed after his hiring.

[bma725]

Isn't the premise of this exercise to decide the best class upon entering / completion of recruiting season?  Seems to me, these guys might win that arguement.

Exiting the recruiting period is a possibility but right now, the 2005 class is higher than this one at the beginning of the recruiting period. At this point in the recruiting season for the 2005 class, Matthews was 40th and James 44th in the class in the 2005 Pre-Summer rankings, McNeal was 85th. 

We'll have to wait and see if they can jump up to that level by the end of the recruiting period this year, or even when the final rankings come out next year.

[dwaderoy2004]

i agree.  when ranking recruiting classes, i thought we were basing it off of how highly ranked they were coming into marquette, i.e., who we beat out, how high there potential was.  Buzz only has so much control on how these kids turn out, as well as their legacies in the program.  When ranking past classes against this one, you need to put on the blinders and forget about what they did, but just focus on how highly sought after they were when they committed. 

That being said, i still rank the three amigos class number 1, and this class slightly ahead of the 2000 class, based on the number of guys in the RSCI top 100.  i think only merritt was in the top 100, even though wade and sanders were ranked by certain sites.  i am willing to be corrected on that, however, because i'm only basing it off memory and didn;t bother to look it up.

This is the most balanced class I can remember, however.

[MR.HAYWARD]

 Thank you dwaderoy2004 for putting some sensibility back into the string.  Last i knew recruiting classes were ranked before they entered college.  now one can retrospectively go back and see how they panned out but if you go to the Espn, hoops scoop, rcsi or whatever those class rankignn are before they ever step foot on campus.  Now after they leave you can use whatever criteria you want team success, individual acchievement, whether their ranking went up or down, etc. 
But for right now simply looking at the current rankings and the trend I still say it is the best class in 25 years. 

If buycks was eligible for ranking you would have 4 concensus top 100 players.  Mu has not had that in 25 years!!  Additionally while the 2004 class may have had 3 players more higly ranked, although we should not set that in stone as maymon and Junior might just end up ranked higher than James was, we need to remeber Burke was only a two star player.  Also bringing down the 2004 class IMO is we essentially signed 2 players of PG dimensions, another guard and then a role playing big.  This class has much greater balance

[dwaderoy2004]

Buycks is the wild card here.  If he ends up next year as one of the top juco players, and the other three hold their spots, this might be the best class.

Either way, it's an awesome haul.

[nola03]

Buycks is the wild card here.  If he ends up next year as one of the top juco players, and the other three hold their spots, this might be the best class.

Either way, it's an awesome haul.

I disagree slightly. For me, Maymon remains the wildcard.

Cadougan, Buycks, and Williams is a solid threesome. If Maymon qualifies, his inclusion makes it a very good class and one that you would expect from a top 5 BE team plus it creates a strong base in which to recruit future years.

The key to all of this is the learning curve of the "bit-part" players over the next two seasons. It will be interesting to see what Butler, Fulce, Otule, and McMorrow bring to the team.

[RawdogDX]

If buycks was eligible for ranking you would have 4 concensus top 100 players. 

If he was eligible for ranking then all juco players would be and if all juco players were we have no idea how many of them would be in the top 100 which means that they very well could push some of the other three 'concensus top 100 players' (is that even true?  i thought certan sites didn't have some of them in it.) out of the top 100.  If you want to play the 'If' game.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Rawdag you are missing the point  I am comparing this incoming class to the 3 other classes that are arguably the best in the last 25 years.  those 3 1990, 2000 and 2004 each had 4 recruits all 4 were from HS and Prep therefore a somewhat quantitave number can be applied althought the ranking are subjective.   My point was not to blow up or question the entire ranking system of "if" jucos were rated and how it would affect all ranking and all classes for all schools, etc etc.  Simply saying that his ranking is kind of a wildcard becuse you cannot use the same system as you could for the other 15 recruits of the 4 years being compared.  Bottom line is the 1990, 2004 and 2009 class will all have 3 concensus top 100 kids...my bet is Buycks is better than Brakes or Burke and if he were now i realize i am using the word if but if he were eligible for the RCSI he might just be higher ranked too.   According to rivals he is a 3 star and Burke was only a 2. no if's in that one

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well the other problem in using the rankings which no one has brought up is the inaccuracy of comparing it year to year.


In other words, you may sign the 25th best player in this year's class but that doesn't mean in a previous class he would have been the 25th best player that year.

So saying you have a year where the aggregate rating of your recruits is say 50.  But 4 years later it's 59, that doesn't mean the class rated at 50 is better. It just means that given year with the talent available, those players were rated at that level but in a different year the nation's recruits could be a deeper field and thus a better player is 'pushed down' in the rankings but actually a better player then someone ranked higher in a previous year.

[MR.HAYWARD]

bob gibbons just said Junior will be in his top 60 in his new rankings and other scouts have had rave reviews too.  Looks like by the numbers this calss may inded end up the strongest in 25 years...and it looks like Mu recruits are moving on up not down.  Great sense of upside on Buzz!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

bob gibbons just said Junior will be in his top 60 in his new rankings and other scouts have had rave reviews too.  Looks like by the numbers this calss may inded end up the strongest in 25 years...and it looks like Mu recruits are moving on up not down.  Great sense of upside on Buzz!!

If I could make heads or tails out of that sentence I would publish a Rosetta Stone software version just for you.  Calss....inded...."great sense of upside on Buzz".   

It's a great get by Buzz.  Looking forward to seeing these kids on the court next year under Buzz's direction.

[bilsu]

There has been some discussion on this board about whether rankings drop after MU signs a player or go up when North Carolina signs a player. Maybe Crean could only sign players that other teams were losing interest in. His best recruit (Wade) was not sought after by the big programs. Once a recruit was targeted by North Carolina, Louisville, etc. he could never close the deal. Crean was good at targeting up and coming recruits, but if they got good to fast he would lose them. Their rankings improved because they improved, which resulted in the North Carolina's being interested in them. Buzz appears to be able to close the deal. I think this is because he is selling the Univeristy and not himself or Dwayne Wade. A player that seriously believes he is going to be a pro is going to go to North Carolina, before he is going to go to MU.

[NYWarrior]

There has been some discussion on this board about whether rankings drop after MU signs a player or go up when North Carolina signs a player. Maybe Crean could only sign players that other teams were losing interest in. His best recruit (Wade) was not sought after by the big programs. Once a recruit was targeted by North Carolina, Louisville, etc. he could never close the deal. Crean was good at targeting up and coming recruits, but if they got good to fast he would lose them.

Bingo. Buzz is a closer. 

[detroitwarrior]

Agreed Bilsu. Most of the comments coming from Erik Wilson ,Jeronne Maymon and Junior Cadougan and those close to them such as family and coaching staff have all indicated they liked the University and Coaching staff, not that they felt that they could use Marquette as a launching pad to a pro career or that they chose MU because DW went here.

[The Lens]

Buzz appears to be able to close the deal. I think this is because he is selling the Univeristy and not himself or Dwayne Wade.

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!

Kids may have a DWade poster on their wall, they may enjoy meeting him etc but at the end of the day we're talking about the Top 100 HS basketball players in the US.  After a few minutes of the D Wade lovefest they are ready to hear about themselves. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm just curious how many people here have been on an in home recruiting visit with Buzz or Crean?  Or on a three way call to know these things.

I know I haven't, but just curious.   

[Pakuni]

I'm just curious how many people here have been on an in home recruiting visit with Buzz or Crean?  Or on a three way call to know these things.

I know I haven't, but just curious.   

How many people here were in on the meetings, phone calls, interviews and overall process that took place leading up to Buzz Williams' hiring to know things about whether anyone panicked, whether coaches X, Y and Z were contacted (or why they were not contacted), etc.?

I know I wasn't, but just curious. 

I don't think one need to personally view Crean or Buzz recruiting to express an opinion on their recruiting styles and results.
And I say this as one of the remaining few Tom Crean defenders around here.

[mviale]

Agreed Bilsu. Most of the comments coming from Erik Wilson ,Jeronne Maymon and Junior Cadougan and those close to them such as family and coaching staff have all indicated they liked the University and Coaching staff, not that they felt that they could use Marquette as a launching pad to a pro career or that they chose MU because DW went here.

Just hearing the list makes me shiver - Erik Wilson ,Jeronne Maymon and Junior Cadougan

[ChicosBailBonds]

How many people here were in on the meetings, phone calls, interviews and overall process that took place leading up to Buzz Williams' hiring to know things about whether anyone panicked, whether coaches X, Y and Z were contacted (or why they were not contacted), etc.?

I know I wasn't, but just curious. 

I don't think one need to personally view Crean or Buzz recruiting to express an opinion on their recruiting styles and results.
And I say this as one of the remaining few Tom Crean defenders around here.

More people were privy to those interviews, calls, etc then are in a one on one recruiting session.  In fact, plenty of people were involved in the decision making process that have expressed their concerns or platitudes privately or publicly to other members of the BOT, etc.  Recruiting is a closed process with the coach(es) and player/family.   Far fewer people are involved in recruiting.


The only reason I bring it up is that let's not forget Crean's first recruiting class how many folks thought Crean was a closer or could get it done, etc.  When minutes are available, recruiting is easier.  As Bilsu correctly pointed out, Crean identified players that were up and comers and achieved to such a high level in the end that UNC or someone else swooped in at the end to grab them.  That's always a tough blow (happened to UW-madison football quite often after Alvarez went to the first Rose Bowl).

So far Buzz is kicking tail in the area that his reputation says he will kick tail.  I suspect it will get a little harder when the minutes are harder to sell, however.  So far, so good for the Buzz.  If he's as successful as the previous regime on the court, in the classroom then I'll be a happy camper.  So far so good.

[Mufflers]

I'd tend to go with results over pre-Marquette rankings.

Accordingly, I'd go:

1. Wade and co.
2. McIllvaine and co.
3. James, McNeal and Matthews and

I wouldn't rank the current class anywhere until they show results on the court.  Once they win an NCAA Tournament game, they'll compete for top three.