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Author Topic: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition  (Read 17557 times)

Pakuni

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New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« on: July 07, 2008, 10:08:44 AM »
This is the pre-summer list, so I'd expect Maymon and Cadougan to move up by the fall. It's early, so there are some pretty large discrepancies among the "gurus" (i.e. HoopScoop has Cadougan #37, Telep and Rivals don't rank him at all or Gibbons ranking E. Williams #48, but HoopScoop doesn't have him a top 100 player).
Regardless, per the early RSCI Buzz has landed three top 100 players in about three months' time. Last time MU had three top 100s was 2005 with the Three Amigos.

Junior Cadougan #70
Erik Williams #78
Jeronne Maymon #85

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_PreSummer_2009.htm

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 10:11:30 AM »
This is the pre-summer list, so I'd expect Maymon and Cadougan to move up by the fall. It's early, so there are some pretty large discrepancies among the "gurus" (i.e. HoopScoop has Cadougan #37, Telep and Rivals don't rank him at all or Gibbons ranking E. Williams #48, but HoopScoop doesn't have him a top 100 player).
Regardless, per the early RSCI Buzz has landed three top 100 players in about three months' time. Last time MU had three top 100s was 2005 with the Three Amigos.

Junior Cadougan #70
Erik Williams #78
Jeronne Maymon #85

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_PreSummer_2009.htm


Very true, though those 3 amigos were a little bit higher ranked.  Last year we would have had two I believe before the transfers.

Nice class by Buzz.....now it's time to see how the young man coaches. 

downtown85

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2008, 10:18:04 AM »

Regardless, per the early RSCI Buzz has landed three top 100 players in about three months' time.

Junior Cadougan #70
Erik Williams #78
Jeronne Maymon #85

http://home.nc.rr.com/rsci/RSCI_100_PreSummer_2009.htm


Has Cadougan committed? 

downtown85

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2008, 10:19:38 AM »
Has Cadougan committed? 

I see it now.... :-[ ...never mind. 

Pakuni

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2008, 10:19:55 AM »
Very true, though those 3 amigos were a little bit higher ranked.  Last year we would have had two I believe before the transfers.

Nice class by Buzz.....now it's time to see how the young man coaches. 

For some reason, there's no final RSCI for 2008 on the RSCI site. But in the fall rankings, only Nick Williams (#95) made the top 100. Taylor moved up most rankings toward the end of the year, so it's likely he'd have made it. On the other hand, Williams slipped (fell from Scout's #35 to unranked, was #146 on Rivals) as the year went on, so there's a good chance he would not have made the final rankings.

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 10:46:27 AM »
exactly....thanks for the actual facts...hopefully chicos read that...truly sad that a Big East team coached by a coach that saw him self as one of the top coaches in the country could not land a concensus top 100 player in his 9th season and had only signed a total of 2 in his last 3 years!!  i said it before if Crean did not sign the 3 amigos he would have been run out of town his recruitng has been so bad.  I will forever feel so bad for the big 3, such ability and talent was not only misutilized by Crean, but he never had the ability to surreound them with a sevicabel bigman aprt from OOze and he barely qualifies.  Such a tradegy that Mu had the worst front court in the BE the last 3 years, what those 3 could have accomplished.  One more chance for those kids i really hope they break through sort of like the kids in 1994, they deserve it. 

So in other words...Buzz has landed 50% more concensus top 100 kids in 75 days than Crean landed in his last three years.  Folks like chicos need to remember that 90% of success in BBAll is talent on the floor.  As a BBall coach myself i will tell you that as will anyother coach worth his salt.  the only people that dont realize that dont know anything about the game and coaches that wont admit it are egomaniacs.  example was Mike Deane all of a sudden a terrible coach his last year or did Oneills talent run out?   Was oneil a terrible caoch before his talent arrived on campus and matured?  Was mcGurie a terrible coach before he got his talent pipeline established?  You now calhoun was a terrible coach before he got the talent flowing into Uconn too!

Please this...can Buzz coach? tagline ad nauseum is pathetic.

I have said it since day 1, in short order people will be glad Crean is gone...not only was he an A-hole but he had underperformed since 2003.  5 years and 5 top 100 recruits, 1 ncaa tournement win and many recruiting whiffs and signing of non d1 type players.

Buzz has signed 3 top 100 players, a player that some have said maybe the 31 juco player in the country and a 7 footer.  Additionally he has added an outsatnding staff including an old veteran that has been successful as the sage that many said Crean always needed.  and more importantly he will actaully take his advise as opposed to the whole Pannagio debacle. 

Crean leaving at the perfect time was the best thing to happen to Mu bbal in 25 years.  mark it down.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 11:00:27 AM »
exactly....thanks for the actual facts...hopefully chicos read that...truly sad that a Big East team coached by a coach that saw him self as one of the top coaches in the country could not land a concensus top 100 player in his 9th season and had only signed a total of 2 in his last 3 years!!  i said it before if Crean did not sign the 3 amigos he would have been run out of town his recruitng has been so bad.  I will forever feel so bad for the big 3, such ability and talent was not only misutilized by Crean, but he never had the ability to surreound them with a sevicabel bigman aprt from OOze and he barely qualifies.  Such a tradegy that Mu had the worst front court in the BE the last 3 years, what those 3 could have accomplished.  One more chance for those kids i really hope they break through sort of like the kids in 1994, they deserve it. 

So in other words...Buzz has landed 50% more concensus top 100 kids in 75 days than Crean landed in his last three years.  Folks like chicos need to remember that 90% of success in BBAll is talent on the floor.  As a BBall coach myself i will tell you that as will anyother coach worth his salt.  the only people that dont realize that dont know anything about the game and coaches that wont admit it are egomaniacs.  example was Mike Deane all of a sudden a terrible coach his last year or did Oneills talent run out?   Was oneil a terrible caoch before his talent arrived on campus and matured?  Was mcGurie a terrible coach before he got his talent pipeline established?  You now calhoun was a terrible coach before he got the talent flowing into Uconn too!

Please this...can Buzz coach? tagline ad nauseum is pathetic.

I have said it since day 1, in short order people will be glad Crean is gone...not only was he an A-hole but he had underperformed since 2003.  5 years and 5 top 100 recruits, 1 ncaa tournement win and many recruiting whiffs and signing of non d1 type players.

Buzz has signed 3 top 100 players, a player that some have said maybe the 31 juco player in the country and a 7 footer.  Additionally he has added an outsatnding staff including an old veteran that has been successful as the sage that many said Crean always needed.  and more importantly he will actaully take his advise as opposed to the whole Pannagio debacle. 

Crean leaving at the perfect time was the best thing to happen to Mu bbal in 25 years.  mark it down.

Buzz has landed a nice class.

It has nothing to do with Crean's ability or inability to recruit.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 12:28:33 PM by 2002mualum »

Ready2Fly

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 11:03:27 AM »
The three amigos may have been ranked higher, but this is a much more well-rounded class.  I can't believe how much Buzz has done is his short tenure to make me change my tune about him.  We should be in the top half of the Big East for years to come now, which all but guarantees a tourney appearance.  That is the floor for this program, and I couldn't be happier.  If either Otule or McMorrow pan out, the sky is the limit for this class.

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 11:18:31 AM »
Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:00:27 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on Today at 10:46:27 AM
exactly....thanks for the actual facts...hopefully chicos read that...truly sad that a Big East team coached by a coach that saw him self as one of the top coaches in the country could not land a concensus top 100 player in his 9th season and had only signed a total of 2 in his last 3 years!!  i said it before if Crean did not sign the 3 amigos he would have been run out of town his recruitng has been so bad.  I will forever feel so bad for the big 3, such ability and talent was not only misutilized by Crean, but he never had the ability to surreound them with a sevicabel bigman aprt from OOze and he barely qualifies.  Such a tradegy that Mu had the worst front court in the BE the last 3 years, what those 3 could have accomplished.  One more chance for those kids i really hope they break through sort of like the kids in 1994, they deserve it. 

So in other words...Buzz has landed 50% more concensus top 100 kids in 75 days than Crean landed in his last three years.  Folks like chicos need to remember that 90% of success in BBAll is talent on the floor.  As a BBall coach myself i will tell you that as will anyother coach worth his salt.  the only people that dont realize that dont know anything about the game and coaches that wont admit it are egomaniacs.  example was Mike Deane all of a sudden a terrible coach his last year or did Oneills talent run out?   Was oneil a terrible caoch before his talent arrived on campus and matured?  Was mcGurie a terrible coach before he got his talent pipeline established?  You now calhoun was a terrible coach before he got the talent flowing into Uconn too!

Please this...can Buzz coach? tagline ad nauseum is pathetic.

I have said it since day 1, in short order people will be glad Crean is gone...not only was he an A-hole but he had underperformed since 2003.  5 years and 5 top 100 recruits, 1 ncaa tournement win and many recruiting whiffs and signing of non d1 type players.

Buzz has signed 3 top 100 players, a player that some have said maybe the 31 juco player in the country and a 7 footer.  Additionally he has added an outsatnding staff including an old veteran that has been successful as the sage that many said Crean always needed.  and more importantly he will actaully take his advise as opposed to the whole Pannagio debacle. 

Crean leaving at the perfect time was the best thing to happen to Mu bbal in 25 years.  mark it down.


Buzz has landed a nice class.

It has nothing to do with who Crean ability or inability to recruit.

Thanks.

gee thanks for your insight 2002alum

I never said it did.  it was simply a response to certain posters who feel the need to add the tagline "well we'll see if he can coach" to every positive that happens for Coach buzz!!   Not only is it a constant neagtive but it is a joke, give me the worst coach in the world and the best talent and i like my chances.  The Crean "legacy" will soon be overshadowed by that of Buzz and i think alot of Crean lovers will continue to struggle with that.   The same fans that beleive Crean made MU cannot beleive that Buzz might be more successfual for 'he has never proven himself as a good coach"....well when did crean ever prove himself as a good coach?...when he had Dwade?!?!.  Since then he proved himself a poor coach and a mediocre at best recruit.  the success he had was becuase of Marquette not the other way around.  Mu made Crean, Crean did not make MU! 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2008, 11:28:23 AM »
Sigh...first off, this is pre-summer Hayward, not the FINAL.  So perhaps you should be the one reading. 

Typically, MU signees FALL in the rankings because of the politics that involved.  We'll see what the FINAL rankings reveal.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2008, 11:29:19 AM »
For some reason, there's no final RSCI for 2008 on the RSCI site. But in the fall rankings, only Nick Williams (#95) made the top 100. Taylor moved up most rankings toward the end of the year, so it's likely he'd have made it. On the other hand, Williams slipped (fell from Scout's #35 to unranked, was #146 on Rivals) as the year went on, so there's a good chance he would not have made the final rankings.

I emailed Jeff at RSCI for the final 2008 rankings (you are correct they aren't listed there).  I'll see what he comes up with. 

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2008, 11:33:56 AM »
Typically, MU signees FALL in the rankings because of the politics that involved.  We'll see what the FINAL rankings reveal.....

Mybe typicall for the last coach...meanwhile Maymon's rankings have skyrocketed,  erik willimas has moved back up and cagougan appears to be moving up too...

it's a new era...like it or not....


Marquette made Crean...that is something he never understood.

NCMUFan

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2008, 11:47:22 AM »
Buzz has done a great job recruiting and I believe Buzz realizes Marquette is a great branded basketball school.  For us to snag Cadougan over the likes of Memphis, Louisville, Texas, etc. needs a basketball program with as strong a reputation as any of the afore mentioned.  I can hardly wait for the 2008-09 season to start and see our team under Buzz.  Future looks so bright I need shades!  Go Marquette!

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2008, 12:01:27 PM »
You better relax NCMUFan....remember what chicos says...we have an unproven coach and usually Mu's recruits ranking fall.  so you better just shut up and start worrying...tommy's not here to lead us anymore....you know to lead us to a double digit loss season and a first round flameout. 

PTM

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2008, 12:15:16 PM »
Mr. Hayward,

Agreeing with Chicos here. After a kid commits his rankings start a trend downward. It has been rather apparent for the last couple of years. Whether or not it's the kid protecting himself throughout the summer, or letting go a little bit and relaxing after he made his big decision, kids that haven't committed move up while the others push down.
New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

muwarrior87

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2008, 12:20:50 PM »
While Maymon's has risen, expect it to fall off. He already said he isn't playing AAU this summer but rather focusing on getting qualified academically.  And after the top 20 kids or so, there's a lot of discrepancy from one report to another and can many people tell a dramatic difference between the 50th ranked kid and the 110th ranked one? It matters how they fit into the system mostly and where they are in their learning curve. A top 50 recruit may not improve his game much from his sr yr of hs to his sr year of college whereas a recruit around 100-150 could continue to improve and end up better than the other recruit by the time they are both juniors.  God given talent only goes so far and after that, you need the passion and drive to continue to improve.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2008, 12:35:10 PM »
Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #6 on: Today at 11:00:27 AM » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: MR.HAYWARD on Today at 10:46:27 AM
exactly....thanks for the actual facts...hopefully chicos read that...truly sad that a Big East team coached by a coach that saw him self as one of the top coaches in the country could not land a concensus top 100 player in his 9th season and had only signed a total of 2 in his last 3 years!!  i said it before if Crean did not sign the 3 amigos he would have been run out of town his recruitng has been so bad.  I will forever feel so bad for the big 3, such ability and talent was not only misutilized by Crean, but he never had the ability to surreound them with a sevicabel bigman aprt from OOze and he barely qualifies.  Such a tradegy that Mu had the worst front court in the BE the last 3 years, what those 3 could have accomplished.  One more chance for those kids i really hope they break through sort of like the kids in 1994, they deserve it. 

So in other words...Buzz has landed 50% more concensus top 100 kids in 75 days than Crean landed in his last three years.  Folks like chicos need to remember that 90% of success in BBAll is talent on the floor.  As a BBall coach myself i will tell you that as will anyother coach worth his salt.  the only people that dont realize that dont know anything about the game and coaches that wont admit it are egomaniacs.  example was Mike Deane all of a sudden a terrible coach his last year or did Oneills talent run out?   Was oneil a terrible caoch before his talent arrived on campus and matured?  Was mcGurie a terrible coach before he got his talent pipeline established?  You now calhoun was a terrible coach before he got the talent flowing into Uconn too!

Please this...can Buzz coach? tagline ad nauseum is pathetic.

I have said it since day 1, in short order people will be glad Crean is gone...not only was he an A-hole but he had underperformed since 2003.  5 years and 5 top 100 recruits, 1 ncaa tournement win and many recruiting whiffs and signing of non d1 type players.

Buzz has signed 3 top 100 players, a player that some have said maybe the 31 juco player in the country and a 7 footer.  Additionally he has added an outsatnding staff including an old veteran that has been successful as the sage that many said Crean always needed.  and more importantly he will actaully take his advise as opposed to the whole Pannagio debacle. 

Crean leaving at the perfect time was the best thing to happen to Mu bbal in 25 years.  mark it down.


Buzz has landed a nice class.

It has nothing to do with who Crean ability or inability to recruit.

Thanks.

gee thanks for your insight 2002alum

I never said it did.  it was simply a response to certain posters who feel the need to add the tagline "well we'll see if he can coach" to every positive that happens for Coach buzz!!   Not only is it a constant neagtive but it is a joke, give me the worst coach in the world and the best talent and i like my chances.  The Crean "legacy" will soon be overshadowed by that of Buzz and i think alot of Crean lovers will continue to struggle with that.   The same fans that beleive Crean made MU cannot beleive that Buzz might be more successfual for 'he has never proven himself as a good coach"....well when did crean ever prove himself as a good coach?...when he had Dwade?!?!.  Since then he proved himself a poor coach and a mediocre at best recruit.  the success he had was becuase of Marquette not the other way around.  Mu made Crean, Crean did not make MU! 

Hold on, questioning whether buzz can coach or not really isn't a Crean issue either.

For the record, I like Buzz... and I'm excited about him. I think he's a young, up and coming.

However, let's just admit that his resume isn't the most impressive. Therefore, saying something like "We'll see if he can coach" is certainly a little pessimistic, it's not inaccurate. Buzz is still somewhat of an unknown (got some good things going so far though)

I know you are a pro-buzz guy... and I think that's great, I like the optimism.

I'm just not sure that bashing Crean over the head really helps your cause.

You don't have to hate Crean to like Buzz, right? I liked Crean and I like Buzz. That's legal, right?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2008, 12:49:50 PM »
Mr. Hayward,

Agreeing with Chicos here. After a kid commits his rankings start a trend downward. It has been rather apparent for the last couple of years. Whether or not it's the kid protecting himself throughout the summer, or letting go a little bit and relaxing after he made his big decision, kids that haven't committed move up while the others push down.

Shhh....don't confuse him with the reality of the situation.  There's only about 25 years of data showing this, but that's ok.  It doesn't always happen, but usually does.  Kids that sign with Duke, Memphis, etc that are ranked below our guys will suddenly be ranked ahead of them, whether they are better or not. It's the name on the front of the jersey that causes this along with the "experts" improperly inflating those that haven't committed so early.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2008, 12:51:07 PM »
Hold on, questioning whether buzz can coach or not really isn't a Crean issue either.

For the record, I like Buzz... and I'm excited about him. I think he's a young, up and coming.

However, let's just admit that his resume isn't the most impressive. Therefore, saying something like "We'll see if he can coach" is certainly a little pessimistic, it's not inaccurate. Buzz is still somewhat of an unknown (got some good things going so far though)

I know you are a pro-buzz guy... and I think that's great, I like the optimism.

I'm just not sure that bashing Crean over the head really helps your cause.

You don't have to hate Crean to like Buzz, right? I liked Crean and I like Buzz. That's legal, right?

Hayward still has trouble realizing who brought Buzz in and who pressed the administration hard to hire Buzz when he left.  It's ironic as hell because in Hayward's mind, Crean is 100% evil. 

RawdogDX

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2008, 12:57:29 PM »
You don't have to hate Crean to like Buzz, right? I liked Crean and I like Buzz. That's legal, right?

Nope, calling the cops as i type.  
We've got a Code 322 : Not agreeing with every nuance of what hayward says.  

a Code 614: Being a fan of the program who doesn't see everything in black and white  

and the most seriously of all Code 489: not classifying coaches(or members of the BOD) as either monsters or gods among men and instead claiming that they have strengths and weakness, selfish and unselfish motivations, as well as qualities that remain unknown until proven.

4thAndState

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2008, 01:01:32 PM »
Hold on, questioning whether buzz can coach or not really isn't a Crean issue either.

For the record, I like Buzz... and I'm excited about him. I think he's a young, up and coming.

However, let's just admit that his resume isn't the most impressive. Therefore, saying something like "We'll see if he can coach" is certainly a little pessimistic, it's not inaccurate. Buzz is still somewhat of an unknown (got some good things going so far though)

I know you are a pro-buzz guy... and I think that's great, I like the optimism.

I'm just not sure that bashing Crean over the head really helps your cause.

You don't have to hate Crean to like Buzz, right? I liked Crean and I like Buzz. That's legal, right?

Pretty much the way I feel; but to tell the truth, it's way better than I was feeling in early April about the situation. Some here (me too) were worrying about the program falling into DePaul or St. John's territory. I think that has been disproven, at least by this class of recruits. Like Homer likes to say, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2008, 01:25:50 PM »

and the most seriously of all Code 489: not classifying coaches(or members of the BOD) as either monsters or gods among men and instead claiming that they have strengths and weakness, selfish and unselfish motivations, as well as qualities that remain unknown until proven.


Well said.

These guys are just human.

Most of them are very bright, talented and driven... but they are just people.

mug644

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2008, 02:23:57 PM »
Well said.

These guys are just human.

Most of them are very bright, talented and driven... but they are just people.


True. I hear they even have to wipe their own butts, just like Queen Elizabeth does.

mu-rara

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2008, 02:52:55 PM »
Buzz has landed a nice class.

It has nothing to do with Crean's ability or inability to recruit.

Thanks.


I didn't even look at the author when I read the post, but i just knew it was 2002alum.   Come on, you're really Riley, or maybe Joani...admit it.

bma725

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2008, 03:32:10 PM »
While Maymon's has risen, expect it to fall off. He already said he isn't playing AAU this summer but rather focusing on getting qualified academically. 

It may fall off, but he'll still rise in the RSCI simply because of when these numbers are from.  He was ranked pre-summer by ESPN, now he's #33.  It's very unlikely he'll fall out of the top 100 since the ranking is done by Bob Gibbons and he played well at the Bob Gibbons TOC earlier this summer.  Gibbons tends to favor those guys, just look at Nick Williams for example.  He's also gone up on Rivals without playing since the NBPA camp. 

In fact all three players could rise when the next ranking comes out.  Part of it has to do with the fact that the RSCI usually includes PrepStars rankings, but didn't this time.  Cadougan is #50 on Prepstars, Williams #43.  The other part is that there have been some changes since the pre-summer.  Cadougan has moved up in HoopScoop's ranking, so couple that with Prepstars and he moves up.  Williams has made a major move up HoopScoop's list, and in all likelihood that should put him in the top 50 even without the PrepStars ranking.