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Author Topic: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition  (Read 17558 times)

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2008, 03:56:04 PM »
I didn't even look at the author when I read the post, but i just knew it was 2002alum.   Come on, you're really Riley, or maybe Joani...admit it.

Wow... them are fightin' words.

Can you just illustrate to me what Buzz's recruiting is impacted by Crean's recruiting?


MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2008, 04:11:36 PM »
BMA states:
It may fall off, but he'll still rise in the RSCI simply because of when these numbers are from.  He was ranked pre-summer by ESPN, now he's #33.  It's very unlikely he'll fall out of the top 100 since the ranking is done by Bob Gibbons and he played well at the Bob Gibbons TOC earlier this summer.  Gibbons tends to favor those guys, just look at Nick Williams for example.  He's also gone up on Rivals without playing since the NBPA camp. 

In fact all three players could rise when the next ranking comes out.  Part of it has to do with the fact that the RSCI usually includes PrepStars rankings, but didn't this time.  Cadougan is #50 on Prepstars, Williams #43.  The other part is that there have been some changes since the pre-summer.  Cadougan has moved up in HoopScoop's ranking, so couple that with Prepstars and he moves up.  Williams has made a major move up HoopScoop's list, and in all likelihood that should put him in the top 50 even without the PrepStars ranking.

Well how could that possibly happen when Chicos says it hasnt happened that way in 25!! years.  Gee maybe now a recruits rankings move up when they sign with Buzz given his respect in recruitng circles.  Bottom line is cadougan and maymon have BLOWN up Baby this summer!! 

mu-rara

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2008, 04:39:00 PM »
Wow... them are fightin' words.

Can you just illustrate to me what Buzz's recruiting is impacted by Crean's recruiting?



I just think it's kind of funny how you never let a jab at Tan Tommy go unanswered.  That's all.  Not looking to start a fight.  It's summer time,  time for a little light humor.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2008, 04:42:04 PM »
BMA states:
It may fall off, but he'll still rise in the RSCI simply because of when these numbers are from.  He was ranked pre-summer by ESPN, now he's #33.  It's very unlikely he'll fall out of the top 100 since the ranking is done by Bob Gibbons and he played well at the Bob Gibbons TOC earlier this summer.  Gibbons tends to favor those guys, just look at Nick Williams for example.  He's also gone up on Rivals without playing since the NBPA camp. 

In fact all three players could rise when the next ranking comes out.  Part of it has to do with the fact that the RSCI usually includes PrepStars rankings, but didn't this time.  Cadougan is #50 on Prepstars, Williams #43.  The other part is that there have been some changes since the pre-summer.  Cadougan has moved up in HoopScoop's ranking, so couple that with Prepstars and he moves up.  Williams has made a major move up HoopScoop's list, and in all likelihood that should put him in the top 50 even without the PrepStars ranking.

Well how could that possibly happen when Chicos says it hasnt happened that way in 25!! years.  Gee maybe now a recruits rankings move up when they sign with Buzz given his respect in recruitng circles.  Bottom line is cadougan and maymon have BLOWN up Baby this summer!! 

Hayward....I said "it doesn't always happen, but usually does" (in terms of the player rankings).  Talk about someone that continues to have a reading comprehension problem.  Good Lord.  Show me where I said it hasn't happened in 25 years?  I said there is 25 years of data showing "USUALLY" MU recruits sign and their stock drops.  Whether it's the RSCI or Gibbons old recruiting top 200 lists.  "it doesn't always happen, but usually does" now equals "it hasn't happened in 25 years".  Wow, you are quite the reader there Hayward.  A real gem.

Listings below starting with their verbal commitment to Marquette


Class of 2000 RSCI

Midseason:  Scott Merritt 63.  Final ranking:  Scott Merritt 85.   Net change = -22 ( that means he went DOWN 22 spots)


Class of 2001 RSCI

First RSCI ranking:  Travis Diener 47.  Final RSCI ranking: Travis Dienr 40.  Net change = +7  ( he went up 7 spots)


Class of 2002 RSCI

Post-Summer:  Steve Novak 55.   Final RSCI ranking:  Steve Novak 57.  Net change = -2


Class of 2003 RSCI

Post-Summer:  Dameon Mason 82.  Final RSCI ranking:  Dameon Mason 71.  Net Change +11


Class of 2005 RSCI

Fall:  Wes Matthews 48, Dj 40, Jerel McNeal 55.  Final RSCI ranking:  DJ 36 (+4 net change), Matthews 61 (-13 net change), McNeal 57 (-2 net change)


Class of 2006 RSCI

Summer:  Lazar Hayward 97.  Final RSCI ranking:  Not ranked  (minimum net change -3 and perhaps much more, impossible to tell)


Class of 2007 RSCI

Pre-Summer:  Trevor Mbakwe 55.  Final RSCI rankings:  Trevor Mbakwe 91  (net change -36)


Class of 2008 RSCI

Summer:   Nick Williams  100.  Final RSCI rankings:  Nick Williams 95  (net change +5)




6 guys went down....some of them drastically (-36, -22, -13)

4 guys went up....all mildly except Maseon who went up 11 spots.


I don't disagree with BMA's theory they will go up in the next ranking.  What I'm saying is they will likely go DOWN from there in the final ranking.  We shall see....how's Plymouth?

« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 04:45:31 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

MR.HAYWARD

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #29 on: July 07, 2008, 04:48:26 PM »
so out of 10, 6 went down and 4 went up or in other words it's a total crap shoot as to whetehr they go up or down at all...but then you state that over the last 25 years they usually go down....boy do you get sick of taking your shoe out of your mouth? 


Remeber this all started by stating that our recently completed class will probably go down  and that we have still not seen whether buzz can coach or not.  have a nice life.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2008, 05:24:14 PM »
I just think it's kind of funny how you never let a jab at Tan Tommy go unanswered.  That's all.  Not looking to start a fight.  It's summer time,  time for a little light humor.

Its a disservice to Buzz to pump his recruiting or performance by bashing Crean.

Crean's success/shortcomings has nothing to do with Buzz's successes.

Again, it's not about loving Crean or hating Crean.

Buzz is Buzz, and bashing Crean to make Buzz look good doesn't make any sense.

Call me any name you want... but my logic is correct.


ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2008, 06:08:39 PM »
so out of 10, 6 went down and 4 went up or in other words it's a total crap shoot as to whetehr they go up or down at all...but then you state that over the last 25 years they usually go down....boy do you get sick of taking your shoe out of your mouth? 


Remeber this all started by stating that our recently completed class will probably go down  and that we have still not seen whether buzz can coach or not.  have a nice life.

No junior...that was just a small amount of data (and still supported what I said...60% to 40%) but if you'd like, I invite you to examine more....like the Bob Gibbons lists, or other recruiting services.  I simply went back 8 years because it was easy to do and didn't take much time but will also give you a much larger sample size.

I'm not going to do the work for you....nor am I going to make up statements like you enjoy doing.  Seriously, enjoy Indiana now that your favorite coach is there.  Just knowing how much that will steam your hide makes me laugh.    Have you hung up a Crean in effigy outside your apartment door yet?  How about IU flag upside down to signal distress? 

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2008, 06:09:07 PM »
Its a disservice to Buzz to pump his recruiting or performance by bashing Crean.

Crean's success/shortcomings has nothing to do with Buzz's successes.

Again, it's not about loving Crean or hating Crean.

Buzz is Buzz, and bashing Crean to make Buzz look good doesn't make any sense.

Call me any name you want... but my logic is correct.



+1

mu-rara

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2008, 08:29:35 AM »
Its a disservice to Buzz to pump his recruiting or performance by bashing Crean.

Crean's success/shortcomings has nothing to do with Buzz's successes.

Again, it's not about loving Crean or hating Crean.

Buzz is Buzz, and bashing Crean to make Buzz look good doesn't make any sense.

Call me any name you want... but my logic is correct.



Dude,   chill....

Hank and Rick were compared to Al for as long as they coached at MU.  It is totally fair to compare TT to Buzz.  Get real.   

I am not yet declaring Buzz as the eternal solution.  I am very happy with what he has done so far.  I think he has shown himself to be as good a recruiter as the Tan One.  I may have a different take on this 2 years from now.

muwarrior87

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2008, 08:57:32 AM »
right. I'm not saying he'll plummet out of the rankings, just that the fact he is committed to MU now and is planning on focusing on getting his grades in order means that his name will not be out on the AAU circuits as someone to actively watch which will cause him to fall slightly.

muball

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 09:20:48 AM »
Rankings have a place but I am not sure they serve a real value outside of the top 10-20 players in the country. Everything else is so fluid and impacted by hype, AAU sponsor, and school selected. What I do like is MU brought in Maymon, Eric, and Junior who could all turn into high level BEast players. Dwight is one of the best JC players in the country. We now have several tall post players(yes they need to develop) but this ends up laying a very solid foundation for the future.  I prefer this class over the previous one with Nick and Tyshawn (good luck to them) as I feel our length and overall potential is higher.   IMO Buzz has done an A job given the circumstances.

Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 09:28:23 AM »
Dude,   chill....

Hank and Rick were compared to Al for as long as they coached at MU.  It is totally fair to compare TT to Buzz.  Get real.   

I am not yet declaring Buzz as the eternal solution.  I am very happy with what he has done so far.  I think he has shown himself to be as good a recruiter as the Tan One.  I may have a different take on this 2 years from now.


You make some smart ass remarks about my posts... I respond with a restatement of what I originally said... and now you are telling me to chill? What exactly did I do?

I realize that it is common for people to compare one thing to another (are apples better than oranges, is blue better than red, is buzz better than crean, etc.)

However, my point is that bashing Crean to make Buzz's case is silly. Buzz's successes and/or failures will have nothing to do with if Tom Crean was good at his job or not. It will also have nothing to do with if Tom Crean was too tan or not. It also has nothing to do with if Tom was a media whore or not.

Comparing coaching performances is expected, however bashing one coach over the head is getting back into the ex-girlfriend stuff that we had back in April.

Buzz will be given a chance to bring in AT LEAST a few classes of his own players, and then we will see if Buzz is the right man for the job (looking pretty good so far).

That's it. It's pretty simple.

Think about it this way, if you like apples... that's great. However, your enjoyment of apples shouldn't be proven by you telling everybody about the crappy oranges you had yesterday. That's doing a disservice to the apples that you are enjoying today.

If the apples are good... enjoy the apples.

77ncaachamps

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 03:11:55 PM »
Buzz has landed a nice class.

It has nothing to do with Crean's ability or inability to recruit.

Thanks.


I disagree. Though he was able to lure big name recruits, he was not consistent. He specifically targeted certain players (i.e., Shumpert) without much of a contingency plan. We signed Blackledge more or less on a whim, and though I liked a few glimpses of what I saw of Trend, he did not pan out.

I think Crean was recruiting for his "system" and that's fine and dandy as long as you get the top-notch recruits - which he wasn't really able to do after the three amigos. I think the DJ/McNeal/Wes class really impacted his recruiting efforts because no recruit saw significant playing time as long as they were there.
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ChicosBailBonds

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2008, 04:46:10 PM »
Jeff from RSCI contacted me today and said the final rankings for last year were not done because he can't get his hands on the Prepstars final rankings.  So if anyone has them, he's looking for them.


Canned Goods n Ammo

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Re: New RSCI for 2009, pre-summer edition
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2008, 06:53:54 AM »
I disagree. Though he was able to lure big name recruits, he was not consistent. He specifically targeted certain players (i.e., Shumpert) without much of a contingency plan. We signed Blackledge more or less on a whim, and though I liked a few glimpses of what I saw of Trend, he did not pan out.

I think Crean was recruiting for his "system" and that's fine and dandy as long as you get the top-notch recruits - which he wasn't really able to do after the three amigos. I think the DJ/McNeal/Wes class really impacted his recruiting efforts because no recruit saw significant playing time as long as they were there.

I think I'm missing something... What are you disagreeing with?

How does Crean's ability/inability to recruit have anything to do with Buzz?