Is the hiring process still flawed??

[Pakuni]

At the end of the day, to suggest this kid wasn't committed to MU by Crean while head coach is one of the silliest things I've read on this board.  He verballed to MU while Crean was head coach.  Crean hired Buzz to get recruits...Buzz got them.  That's what Buzz was paid to do...he did it well. 

Nobody .. and definitely not I ... is making that suggestion.
What we're pointing out though is that it is accurate and fair to call Erik Williams a Buzz Williams recruit.
He was contacted and recruited by Marquette because of Buzz Williams.
He verbally committed to Marquette because of Buzz Williams.
He re-affirmed that commitment to Marquette because of Buzz Williams.

This wasn't a simple case of an assistant doing to leg work and the head coach closing the deal. Nor is it a case of a new coach taking over and inheriting the former coach's recruits (a la Crean and Krunti Hester).
BW did the work on EW. Tom Crean just happened to he the head coach when EW gave his verbal.
As I've pointed out, if EW felt his commitment was to Tom Crean, or was coming to Marquette to play for Tom Crean, he had every opportunity to bail on his verbal and go to Indiana or anywhere else.
He didn't. He's sticking with Marquette.
And we know why.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Calling Cottingham a dimwit is an understatement. He was not qualified nor prepared to conduct the search. Buzz being successful will all be Buzz's doing. Give credit where credit is due.

Are you saying that if Buzz is successful that Cottingham just got lucky?

Why doesn't he deserve credit for hiring Buzz?

In the business world, the smartest people are the ones who can identify talent and utilize those people.

Doesn't that apply to Cottingham?

If he's going to get the blame if MU athletics tanks... he should at least get SOME credit if they do well.

[tonyreeder]

Could be...good thing the previous coaching administration got MU to where it was to help in that process.  We are in the best shape we've been in probably in 25 years....Buzz needs to take advantage of that.  So far he has.  Keep it going.


EDIT:  For Tony Reeder...the term "we" means Marquette University and the Athletic Department.  As an alumnus I felt compelled to use the term "we". 

I'm afraid to answer because you might have a moderator send me an e-mail at work again.   You continue to refer to the Marquette basketball team and coaches as "we" as much as you want, continue to respond to your own posts, refer to the women at work as "gals", and post 3000 times on message board.  I'll leave you alone.  I come here occasionally to get news on the basketball program-that's all I need.

[BrewCity83]

Are you saying that if Buzz is successful that Cottingham just got lucky?

Why doesn't he deserve credit for hiring Buzz?

In the business world, the smartest people are the ones who can identify talent and utilize those people.

Doesn't that apply to Cottingham?

If he's going to get the blame if MU athletics tanks... he should at least get SOME credit if they do well.

I'm with 2002mualum on this one.  Just like Mike McCarthy's success is making Ted Thompson look really smart, Buzz's success should reflect positively on Cottingham, process be damned.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pakuni...I said you weren't one of them....but "nobody"...hardly.  Read again some of the other messages here.  A few people are suggesting as if this kid never even verballed to us when Crean was the head coach...of course he did.  Why they are, I have no idea other then the correlation of hating Crean is a perfect 1:1 ratio so that's the only thing I can think of.

I see Reeder has responded but since I have Ignore User on,  I can read it.  What a fabulous feature of this site.  Thank you Scoop.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm with 2002mualum on this one.  Just like Mike McCarthy's success is making Ted Thompson look really smart, Buzz's success should reflect positively on Cottingham, process be damned.

Could we maybe wait until a few years from now to deem anyone a success on this front?  We got a verbal from a great player today...that's terrific.  Let's hope he's eligible, let's hope he's that good, let's hope we can get a guard that can get the ball to him and that our coach is ready to go in the coaching rigors of the Big East as well.  Until then, grade incomplete for the next couple of years.  So far, so good but a long way to go.  And again, I'd remind how many of those here thought the last guy wasn't a success...if that's the barometer, then Buzz has a lot to achieve before he can be considered a success.

The McCarthy comparison is an interesting one, especially since I read elsewhere how poor of a hire he was in year one, how great he was in year two, and maybe year three he goes back to not being a great hire...who knows.  I suppose it depends on how the team does.   

[THEGYMBAR]

IF EW indeed comes then Buzz deserves credit for getting him here. Until that point EW is TC's recruit.

[tonyreeder]

Pakuni...I said you weren't one of them....but "nobody"...hardly.  Read again some of the other messages here.  A few people are suggesting as if this kid never even verballed to us when Crean was the head coach...of course he did.  Why they are, I have no idea other then the correlation of hating Crean is a perfect 1:1 ratio so that's the only thing I can think of.

I see Reeder has responded but since I have Ignore User on,  I can read it.  What a fabulous feature of this site.  Thank you Scoop.

I think you meant to say, "I can't read it."     I'm sure that was just a slip though. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Could we maybe wait until a few years from now to deem anyone a success on this front? 

I agree with this 100%... and if you follow my logic through all of my posts.. .that is my point.

"the process" is certainly an interesting topic to discuss... but let's just be honest and say that the ends justify the means.

If Buzz is great, well, then I will say the "process" was successful. Again, I realize hindsight is always 20/20, but really I can't judge anything about the hiring until I see more.

You can have any process or business practices you want, but if the results aren't good... then the process won't matter too much.

MU hoops is in the results business... not the process business... and ultimately that is how the coach and AD will be judged.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Chicos states....

Williams (Erik) then decided after Crean left he would only play at IU or MU...he decided to stay at MU and even mentioned the Jesuit connection

only from chicos...this is not only laughable it is an outright fabrication.    I am calling you out Chicos as an absolute fabricator.  Show me one article ..one single quote where eric Willimas ever said he was or would consider IU.  absolutely made up by you.  What he did say was Iu called him and he was not interested.  again i am calling you out and your constant twisting of the truth/lying to defend your diarrhea of the keyboard and pompous attitude. 
Pakuni is correct...
EW knew of Mu because of Buzz, considered Mu becuase of Buzz, verballed to Mu beacuse of BUzz, and never wavered on his Mu commitment because of Buzz despite what Chicos might fabricate.

[bma725]

EW's coach said that he and Erik discussed it, and it was either Indiana or MU.  In an article that Rosiak did right after he reaffirmed his commitment.

"Interestingly, had MU not hired Williams to replace Crean, Williams might very well have wound up at Indiana with Crean. He and his coach at Cypress Springs, John Harmatuk, decided to wait MU's hiring process out before ultimately making a decision.

"The reason we weren't in a hurry is because it was going to be Indiana or Marquette".

[Pakuni]

EW's coach said that he and Erik discussed it, and it was either Indiana or MU.  In an article that Rosiak did right after he reaffirmed his commitment.

"Interestingly, had MU not hired Williams to replace Crean, Williams might very well have wound up at Indiana with Crean. He and his coach at Cypress Springs, John Harmatuk, decided to wait MU's hiring process out before ultimately making a decision.

"The reason we weren't in a hurry is because it was going to be Indiana or Marquette".

Correct. And therein lies the rub.
Williams could have gone to Indiana and played for Tom Crean. Instead, he re-affirmed his verbal to Marquette in order to play for Buzz Williams.
Given those known facts, I don't see how anyone could argue that he's not a Buzz Williams recruit, but rather a Tom Crean recruit. For Pete's sake, when given the option, he chose Buzz.

[Henry Sugar]

Correct. And therein lies the rub.
Williams could have gone to Indiana and played for Tom Crean. Instead, he re-affirmed his verbal to Marquette in order to play for Buzz Williams.
Given those known facts, I don't see how anyone could argue that he's not a Buzz Williams recruit, but rather a Tom Crean recruit. For Pete's sake, when given the option, he chose Buzz.

The Erik Williams argument is a stupid one.

He is a Buzz recruit.  Period. 

Trying to argue otherwise is playing with semantics.  Let's give Buzz credit where it's due. 

[Marquette84]

I think the unspoken reason some are reluctant to credit Buzz with Erik Williams' recruitment is that it undermines the whole "process was flawed" line of thought.

Buzz was hired largely because of his recruiting ability.  He's completely living up to that reputation.

He won the commitment of Erik Williams over a reported offer from Indiana.  
He landed Jimmy Butler, shoring up a hole created with the absence of Nick Williams.
He landed one of the top players in Wisconsin--the type that has eluded MU for much of the past five years.

Seems to me that Buzz is doing exactly what is expected of him.  He wasn't hired because his years of experience coaching a mid-major.  He was hired to land the type of players we need to win in the Big East.

Now that he's accomplishing that, somehow the process was still "flawed."

[MR.HAYWARD]

exactly, maybe he considered Indiana for a few days but only insomuch as Buzz might go there, for chico's to attempt to twist that to mean he was considering following Crean only there is a pure fabrication.  note the eery silence from the never silent one.  As was posted before the only ones saying EW is not a 100% total Buzz recruit and recommit are those still hanging on the "process" lunacy!!  if the EW recommitment, stealing jimmy Butler from miss. State and Kentucky to Mu, campus unseen, and now the JM verbal are not proof positive that Mu maybe made a good hire than they cannot possibly even be fans.  Reminds me of Chicos defending Deane for about two years and blathering on about how it would reflect bad on MU!!  that was a laffer too,  then he jumps on the bandwagon...big back slapper.  i will be sure to let Buzz know jaime has been a huge detractor to the point of ad nauseum. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos states....

Williams (Erik) then decided after Crean left he would only play at IU or MU...he decided to stay at MU and even mentioned the Jesuit connection

only from chicos...this is not only laughable it is an outright fabrication.    I am calling you out Chicos as an absolute fabricator.  Show me one article ..one single quote where eric Willimas ever said he was or would consider IU.  absolutely made up by you.  What he did say was Iu called him and he was not interested.  again i am calling you out and your constant twisting of the truth/lying to defend your diarrhea of the keyboard and pompous attitude. 
Pakuni is correct...
EW knew of Mu because of Buzz, considered Mu becuase of Buzz, verballed to Mu beacuse of BUzz, and never wavered on his Mu commitment because of Buzz despite what Chicos might fabricate.

Wow...it's like stealing candy from a baby. 

A fabricator you say...well, please call his High School basketball coach a fabricator too then.  Good grief you're a piece of work.  You continue to post things that are untrue, I correct you and then you move on to another.  Any other recruiting ratings you want to throw out there that are in absolute error as you have been 100% of the time the last month plus?  Please...it's been entertaining.

And I also said that of course Buzz got Williams to MU...but you make it sound like he didn't sign to play for Crean and Marquette.  That is a joke on every level possible.


So, back to your request.  Here is what John Harmatuk, head coach at Cypress Springs said. 

"The reason we weren't in a hurry is because it was going to be Indiana or Marquette," said Harmatuk. "He was never going to open it up to anybody else."

Pretty simple.  He signed with Marquette and to play for Crean.  Crean left.  He then considered IU or MU, those were the only two he would consider and he decided to stay with MU once Buzz got the job.  If Buzz didn't get the job, he might very well have gone to IU.  As his coach and Williams said, they trusted two people..CREAN and BUZZ.  That's it.

"If you're going to do recruiting right, you're going to do it on relationships because you're going to spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week with these guys for four years, and that's what it was all about. Erik had a good relationship with two people -- Coach Buzz and Coach Crean."

"There was that four- or five-day period when no head coach was named. As soon as Coach Buzz was named...it was easy."

“Despite everything that has gone on, I remain strongly committed to Marquette University,” Erik Williams said. “Coach Crean is a great person and coach, but the more I thought about it, I committed to Marquette because of everything that it stands for and has to offer. In the south, everything is football. At Marquette, basketball is the main focus.”



So you can say I'm a fabricator all you want or you can continue to post ratings on players and say untruthful things about them, that's fine.  It seems pretty clear by Erik's head high school coach that there were only two schools he would consider...INDIANA and MARQUETTE.  Once Buzz got the MU job, he stayed with MU.  I'd love to know what I fabricated.


I'll wait for your apology   

[ChicosBailBonds]

EW's coach said that he and Erik discussed it, and it was either Indiana or MU.  In an article that Rosiak did right after he reaffirmed his commitment.

"Interestingly, had MU not hired Williams to replace Crean, Williams might very well have wound up at Indiana with Crean. He and his coach at Cypress Springs, John Harmatuk, decided to wait MU's hiring process out before ultimately making a decision.

"The reason we weren't in a hurry is because it was going to be Indiana or Marquette".

Thanks BMA....but I'm just a fabricator you know.  I appreciate the assist, I'm sure Hayward will admit he's wrong again like he has so much of late. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

exactly, maybe he considered Indiana for a few days but only insomuch as Buzz might go there, for chico's to attempt to twist that to mean he was considering following Crean only there is a pure fabrication.  note the eery silence from the never silent one.  As was posted before the only ones saying EW is not a 100% total Buzz recruit and recommit are those still hanging on the "process" lunacy!!  if the EW recommitment, stealing jimmy Butler from miss. State and Kentucky to Mu, campus unseen, and now the JM verbal are not proof positive that Mu maybe made a good hire than they cannot possibly even be fans.  Reminds me of Chicos defending Deane for about two years and blathering on about how it would reflect bad on MU!!  that was a laffer too,  then he jumps on the bandwagon...big back slapper.  i will be sure to let Buzz know jaime has been a huge detractor to the point of ad nauseum. 

I didn't fabricate a damn thing...gave you direct quotes...you were just flat f'ing wrong again...maybe someday you'll have the stones to admit it.  Unlikely.

PS  I miss your other usernames...you should bring them back from year's gone past.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think the unspoken reason some are reluctant to credit Buzz with Erik Williams' recruitment is that it undermines the whole "process was flawed" line of thought.

Buzz was hired largely because of his recruiting ability.  He's completely living up to that reputation.

He won the commitment of Erik Williams over a reported offer from Indiana. 
He landed Jimmy Butler, shoring up a hole created with the absence of Nick Williams.
He landed one of the top players in Wisconsin--the type that has eluded MU for much of the past five years.

Seems to me that Buzz is doing exactly what is expected of him.  He wasn't hired because his years of experience coaching a mid-major.  He was hired to land the type of players we need to win in the Big East.

Now that he's accomplishing that, somehow the process was still "flawed."

So far, so good but let's put it into context.

MU won Maymon because Wisconsin didn't go after him.  The kid flat out stated UW-madison was his NUMBER ONE choice.  UW-Madison didn't recruit the kid because of grades and a few other reasons....so I'm not sure that one counts.

Second, is Jimmy Butler a better player then Nick Williams?  I don't think anyone can say that yet.

The process remains and always will be flawed.  It was a risky hire...let's hope it works out...so far...so good...especially if our stud recruit today is academically eligible.

[Pakuni]

MU won Maymon because Wisconsin didn't go after him.  The kid flat out stated UW-madison was his NUMBER ONE choice. 

Really?
When did Jeronne flat-out state that (or shout it)?

I mean, I don't want to call you a fabricator or anything, but this is news to me.
Source? Link? Anything?

[hoops12]

Buzz is the one that initially recruited Erik Williams out of Texas. Definitely deserves most, if not all of the credit for bringing Williams to Marquette. The posters that are worrying about the process in which we hired Coach Williams by saying it was risky........no kidding. The simple fact is whenever you hire any coach, even a seasoned veteran brings about a great deal of risk. There is no perfect way of doing things. Give it a break!

I'm pleased with with Buzz, and I'm looking forward to the future with him as our coach.

Maymon said UW didn't recruit him, but he also said he didn't like their style of play because it didn't match his strengths.

Lastly, add a good point guard and Wilson and we will be set for many years to come. (Wishful thinking at this point)

GO MU!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Really?
When did Jeronne flat-out state that (or shout it)?

I mean, I don't want to call you a fabricator or anything, but this is news to me.
Source? Link? Anything?

I believe I read it on WisSports.  Can't find the link...perhaps Mark Miller can assist if Maymon's top desire was Madison but since they didn't show the love it wasn't going to happen for him.

Best I can do is give you his father's quote from Friday's paper.

"He has been very interested in UW, but UW is not interested in him,'' Tim Maymon said. ``If they ever have to face him, they'll see why the should have got him.

I'll continue to look for you Pakuni and will provide it when I find it.  Essentially it was to the effect that he always wanted to play in his hometown for Wisconsin but they weren't recruiting him.  Hopefully I can find it soon, I'd hate to be called a fabricator.     Or worse, I'd hate for you to be considered in the same breath as Mr. Hayward...you're better than that.

[Pakuni]

I believe I read it on WisSports.  Can't find the link...perhaps Mark Miller can assist if Maymon's top desire was Madison but since they didn't show the love it wasn't going to happen for him.

Best I can do is give you his father's quote from Friday's paper.

"He has been very interested in UW, but UW is not interested in him,'' Tim Maymon said. ``If they ever have to face him, they'll see why the should have got him.

I'll continue to look for you Pakuni and will provide it when I find it.  Essentially it was to the effect that he always wanted to play in his hometown for Wisconsin but they weren't recruiting him.  Hopefully I can find it soon, I'd hate to be called a fabricator.   

So we've gone from Jeronne saying "flat-out" UW was his NUMBER ONE choice to his dad saying he was interested?
Suffice to say, there's a pretty big difference there both in the source and the content. Happy searching.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So we've gone from Jeronne saying "flat-out" UW was his NUMBER ONE choice to his dad saying he was interested?
Suffice to say, there's a pretty big difference there both in the source and the content. Happy searching.

Nope, I've not changed what I said at all...I said this is what I found thus far.  I can't remember where I read it but when I find it I'll post it.  Fair enough?  And perhaps Mark or some others that talk to these kids all the time can verify what I read.

Have a nice evening.