[Rosiak's Blog] ESPN.com's Katz calls Williams hire a gamble

[NavinRJohnson]

However, dredging up the posts of two years ago, no matter what point you are trying to make, is lame.  As is your constant, defend Buzz at all costs mentality.

Not necessarily something I would take the time to do, but I guess I don't see why. Using someone's own words to make a point, what's wrong with that?

[GGGG]

Not necessarily something I would take the time to do, but I guess I don't see why. Using someone's own words to make a point, what's wrong with that?

Because people make all sorts of lame predictions and observations given what they know at the time.  Playing Monday Morning Quarterback is easy for anyone to do.  But do people own up to their own mistakes?  Do they point out when other's predictions were accurate?

[MUSF]

Because people make all sorts of lame predictions and observations given what they know at the time.  Playing Monday Morning Quarterback is easy for anyone to do.  But do people own up to their own mistakes?  Do they point out when other's predictions were accurate?

Well if anyone predicted MU's season accurately last year, it was because they were trying to set Buzz up for failure.

[NersEllenson]

Seriously Ners?

What would make you happy?  The elimination of all dissent or debate?

It's one thing to disagree and let someone know that you think they are wrong, but why are you always trying to get people to leave or be removed from the site?  

There are some people that don't care for Buzz and some that aren't sold yet.  Does that mean they forfeit their right to call themselves MU fans?  What makes you the defender of Marquette fandom?  

If you don't want to hear differing opinions on our head coach then go start your own site with your own rules, but don't tell people here that they should get lost or be banned because their opinion of our coach is different than yours.

Ok - thanks for the good idea..but what would make me happy is for people to 1) Not make contradictory posts such as 3EMR - did.  Have an opinion..stick to it..and don't want it this way one day, and then another way the next. 2) Let's not cruicify our current coach who is well on his way to returning us to greatness.

And..if you aren't sold on Buzz yet..and don't care for Buzz..be sure not to celebrate in the greatness that is about to happen within this program.  Furthermore, continue to be self-righteous and judgemental about situations that you have NO concrete information over as to how things transpire withn the recruitment of MU players.

[reinko]

Ok - thanks for the good idea..but what would make me happy is for people to 1) Not make contradictory posts such as 3EMR - did.  Have an opinion..stick to it..and don't want it this way one day, and then another way the next. 2) Let's not cruicify our current coach who is well on his way to returning us to greatness.

And..if you aren't sold on Buzz yet..and don't care for Buzz..be sure not to celebrate in the greatness that is about to happen within this program.  Furthermore, continue to be self-righteous and judgemental about situations that you have NO concrete information over as to how things transpire withn the recruitment of MU players.

How long did it take you to master typing from your knees?

[MUBurrow]

And..if you aren't sold on Buzz yet..and don't care for Buzz..be sure not to celebrate in the greatness that is about to happen within this program.

I couldn't have more perfectly encapsulated why so many of us are preposterously frustrated by your posts if I had tried.

[Skatastrophy]

come on the 'Scoop and jerk themselves off silly

Oh sweet baby jesus, lol

[GGGG]

And..if you aren't sold on Buzz yet..and don't care for Buzz..be sure not to celebrate in the greatness that is about to happen within this program.  

So is it your opinion that those who weren't sold on Al after he went 22-30 after his first two years, shouldn't have been allowed to celebrate in 1977?

[NersEllenson]

I couldn't have more perfectly encapsulated why so many of us are preposterously frustrated by your posts if I had tried.

And I couldn't round up a bigger bunch of idiots who still have reservations as to if Buzz is a good coach/recruiter/ambassodor of the program.  If it isn't clear to you at this point, you are an idiot.  Period.  Why this is preposterously frustrating, I don't know??

It's like some of you have continued to try to take this wait and see approach..and the evidence that continues to come in is Buzz is landing top-tier talent, with no off the court incidents, and you are just grasping for straws to try to support your wait and see approach...when all real, tangible evidence..points to the fact we are going to have GREAT teams over the next 4 years..

[MUSF]

Ok - thanks for the good idea..but what would make me happy is for people to 1) Not make contradictory posts such as 3EMR - did.  Have an opinion..stick to it..and don't want it this way one day, and then another way the next. 2) Let's not cruicify our current coach who is well on his way to returning us to greatness.

And..if you aren't sold on Buzz yet..and don't care for Buzz..be sure not to celebrate in the greatness that is about to happen within this program.  Furthermore, continue to be self-righteous and judgemental about situations that you have NO concrete information over as to how things transpire withn the recruitment of MU players.

1.  As I mentioned in another post, I'm not sure that 3MER was really contradicting himself in this case.  They seem to be seperate issues that you are trying to connect.
3MER thought Buzz wasn't a good hire and he would lose high level recruits.  He was wrong.  Now, he is saying that Buzz shouldn't have revoked Newbill's offer because a better player was available.  You seem to think that these two points contradict each other.  Are you implying that the only way for Buzz to get the high level recruits that 3MER expected is to be willing to revoke scholarship offers when better players become available?

2.  I have no problem with you defending Buzz or calling people out when you think they are crucifying Buzz or being self-righteous.  In fact, I did the same thing to 3MER in another post.  My problem is with you feeling the need to take it a step further and call for people to be banned or telling them to "beat it."  

3.  I also don't follow your logic that not being sold on Buzz yet somehow excludes you from being an MU fan.  This makes no sense.  I may not be willing to say that Buzz is a great coach yet but I can still celebrate his and MU's accomplishments, and hopefully in a few years I will be calling Buzz a great coach.  Did all of the Crean haters not celebrate the Final Four?  Are all of the people who hate Crean now excluded from rooting for Dwyane Wade or remembering 2002-2003 fondly?

[GGGG]

It's like some of you have continued to try to take this wait and see approach..and the evidence that continues to come in is Buzz is landing top-tier talent, with no off the court incidents, and you are just grasping for straws to try to support your wait and see approach...when all real, tangible evidence..points to the fact we are going to have GREAT teams over the next 4 years..

Because recruiting top-tier talent with no off court incidents isn't the end-game.  That top-tier talent has to produce on the basketball court.  Until he can show that he can win with that talent, I am still in wait and see mode.  Believe me, I like what I see so far and I feel very positive about the future, but I can't declare him the next great coach until he takes his talent and wins with it.

[MUBurrow]

sorry.  being a Marquette hating idiot is just a preposterously frustrating existence, i guess.

[GGGG]

Ok - thanks for the good idea..but what would make me happy is for people to 1) Not make contradictory posts such as 3EMR - did.  Have an opinion..stick to it..and don't want it this way one day, and then another way the next.

People's opinions can change in two years you know...once additional information comes to light.

[Lennys Tap]

So is it your opinion that those who weren't sold on Al after he went 22-30 after his first two years, shouldn't have been allowed to celebrate in 1977?

Marquette was 5-21 the year before Al arrived. 8-18 his first year and 14-12 his second with George Thompson set to lead them the following year. I'd say yeah.

[damuts222]

 You have to wait until the program becomes Buzz's in which case he has seniors that play for him for 4 years and graduate with no issues. Thats my opinion about Buzz and the MU program.

 How would your opinion differ if say next season or the season after that, or both seasons, we miss the dance and are not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the Big East. Who do people point the finger at, I'm not saying I'm just saying.

[MUSF]

Question for the anti-wait and see crowd.

Does it work both ways?  If Buzz had 2 mediocre seasons would you be calling for him to be fired, or would you be willing to let him get 4-5 years to prove what he could do with his own recruits?

[NersEllenson]

It's not enough for Ners to defend Buzz at all costs.  I could deal with that, but Ners feels the need to attack anybody that questions Buzz.  He paints them as having an anti Buzz/MU agenda and actually tries to eliminate them from the board through harrassment or calling for their banishment.

Get over it MUSF - you wrote:  "I'm not calling for Buzz's head but I would like him or the university to take some corrective action."

And I wrote personally I'd call for some corrective action and your head/account on here is if you continued to perpetuate the "Buzz is a bad guy," type of posts you posted for 2 days after the Newbill situation.  Furthermore, we had another start a topic: "Is this a fireable offense?"  It got to the point of ridiculous on this board to where someone finall got it right in sarcasm and started the" Should Buzz Williams be sent to prison thread?"

Lstly, what if Buzz left MU in the next month..tok another job somewhere else..due to getting annoyed with all of the self righteousness of some of the MU fanbase..that want to hold him to the standard of Jesus Christ?  Just woke up one day and said..you know what..I don't need this sh$t?  Considering how many coahces turned us down when Crean left - Bennett, Anthony Grant, Keno Davis, Sean Miller, etc....who do you think MU is going to land??  I think some MU fans have this illusionary view of where our program is in the national landscape.we aren't a destination job..and the last hiring process was evidence of that....final point is..appreciate what we have..and stop with the nit picking of our current head coach.  We are LUCKY to have him.  Period.  Look at where IU is with Tom Crean..it is amazing to look at the talent disparity between MU and IU - which is considered much more of a destination program..than MU ever was/likely ever will be.

[MUSF]

You have to wait until the program becomes Buzz's in which case he has seniors that play for him for 4 years and graduate with no issues. Thats my opinion about Buzz and the MU program.

 How would your opinion differ if say next season or the season after that, or both seasons, we miss the dance and are not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the Big East. Who do people point the finger at, I'm not saying I'm just saying.

+1

You beat me to it.

[reinko]

Why not everyone take second, breathe, click this link and laugh at the headline.   

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6622I420100703

[MUSF]

Get over it MUSF - you wrote:  "I'm not calling for Buzz's head but I would like him or the university to take some corrective action."

And I wrote personally I'd call for some corrective action and your head/account on here is if you continued to perpetuate the "Buzz is a bad guy," type of posts you posted for 2 days after the Newbill situation.  Furthermore, we had another start a topic: "Is this a fireable offense?"  It got to the point of ridiculous on this board to where someone finall got it right in sarcasm and started the" Should Buzz Williams be sent to prison thread?"

Wow.  In what crazy world does asking MU and/or Buzz to take corrective action equal "Buzz is a bad guy?"   I would hate to be your boss and have to ask you to improve on some aspect of your job.  I imagine your response would be, "Why do you hate me?  Stop crucifying me or I'll ask the company to fire you!"

I challenge you to find any post where I specifically stated or even suggested that "Buzz is a bad guy."  Why don't you take a look at the posts where I called 3MER out for implying that Buzz doesn't live up to Jesuit values.  Of course doing that might shatter this illusionary black and white world you have created.

[NersEllenson]

Wow.  In what crazy world does asking MU and/or Buzz to take corrective action equal "Buzz is a bad guy?"   I would hate to be your boss and have to ask you to improve on some aspect of your job.  I imagine your response would be, "Why do you hate me?  Stop crucifying me or I'll ask the company to fire you!"

I challenge you to find any post where I specifically stated or even suggested that "Buzz is a bad guy."  Why don't you take a look at the posts where I called 3MER out for implying that Buzz doesn't live up to Jesuit values.  Of course doing that might shatter this illusionary black and white world you have created.

Did you specifically say "Buzz is a bad guy?"  NO.  Did you post approximately 30 replies to the Newbill threads insuiniating as much?  Yes.  Or at very least..did you not have 30 posts on the Newbill situation belaboring your point that you disagreed with what happened, etc..?  You may note that I too don't like what happened...but..I am not going to take the Newbill camp 100% as truthful, and the IWB account as 100% false..and discuss that our coach need to be reprimanded or the university take some corrective action..that to me is an overreaction..particularily when NO ONE other than Buzz/Monarch and DJ Newbill and his parents know exactly what happened...

I am glad that you eventually relented and called out 3EM'er for going off the deep end with saying Buzz doesn't live up to Jesuit values..and as already mentioned..we had soem here asking if this was a fireable offense.  Point being..I defend Buzz when the overreaction crowd goes WAY off the deep end here...

[ChicosBailBonds]

And I couldn't round up a bigger bunch of idiots who still have reservations as to if Buzz is a good coach/recruiter/ambassodor of the program.  If it isn't clear to you at this point, you are an idiot.  Period.  Why this is preposterously frustrating, I don't know??

It's like some of you have continued to try to take this wait and see approach..and the evidence that continues to come in is Buzz is landing top-tier talent, with no off the court incidents, and you are just grasping for straws to try to support your wait and see approach...when all real, tangible evidence..points to the fact we are going to have GREAT teams over the next 4 years..

There's a difference between recognizing if he is a good coach, good ambassador, and making him a deity  (here's an example, I liked very much the results that Crean delivered but didn't hesitate to call him a prick, an ego centric person, etc.  Or attacking him for having Jason Rab on his staff, etc).  Some people dare to question what tea the guy is drinking and you're branded a Maoist.

I'll stay consistent as I have from the very first day of his hiring....history will judge him.  Some of you will judge him now, and that's fine.  I'll let history be the ultimate judge.  Way too many examples of coaches starting out on fire and crashing within 5 years, it's too early to tell.  History will be the judge.  So far, so good...at least when he's not booting players off the team before they get a chance to prove themselves.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why not everyone take second, breathe, click this link and laugh at the headline.   

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6622I420100703

OK, I laughed my butt off.   You know the copy writers do this stuff on purpose, they have to.

[NersEllenson]

OK, I laughed my butt off.   You know the copy writers do this stuff on purpose, they have to.

That was quite hilarious..and definitely intentional..

[Lennys Tap]

Question for the anti-wait and see crowd.

Does it work both ways?  If Buzz had 2 mediocre seasons would you be calling for him to be fired, or would you be willing to let him get 4-5 years to prove what he could do with his own recruits?

If Buzz would have had a mediocre season with the mediocre team he was left with last year I'd say wait and see.

If Buzz hadn't produced 4 talented recruiting classes in 2 years I'd say wait and see.

I've seen him coach more than 70 games. I've seen the way he relates to and treats people.

I don't need to see a movie 175 times (5 years worth of games) to review it. If Buzz was treading water like TC was after 2 years I'd be cautiously optimistic and say wait and see. He's hit it out of the park so I think I've seen enough.