Xavier BET Game Thread

[The Sultan]

n what universe is a -5 in four minutes of action not a problem?

I am not reading this whole thing, but will just answer this question.

I never claimed it wasn't a problem. I am claiming that the problem has been exaggerated by many posters who, you know, can just look up the data.

For instance...

We lost this game with the 9 and 8 point runs by Xavier when Hamilton was in the game....

And...

Xavier had a 9 - 0 run this half and an 8 - 0 run in the first half when Hamilton was in the game.....

This didn't happen. We can have discussions about a player without resorting to exaggerations.

[Zog from Margo]

As Ben Steele said, Hamilton and Norman are not BE-level players even on a rotational basis. As a result, the only depth MU had was Phillips and Owens. Phillips played like a freshman all season and made a ton of mistakes. Owens was spotty but played a little better down the stretch. Owens still did not provide reliable bench play and still has a lot to prove. Clark remains a project who is pretty clueless on the floor. As a result, MU had only 5 guys who could play and it took the freshmen and Parham a number of games to start playing like BE players. The fault lies with Shaka in grossly overestimating the team's talent. Norman, Hamilton, and Jones, at a minimum, need to join Lowery.

[WhiteTrash]

So Scoop is reduced to arguing the degree of ineptness of Hamilton? Uhhg!

CH is not worthy of this level of attention. He was reduced to a bit part on a poor team. Regardless if he stays or goes, Shaka has way more important issue to deal with. Get the top 12 players set then worry about the last 3 spots.

[willie warrior]

So Scoop is reduced to arguing the degree of ineptness of Hamilton? Uhhg!

CH is not worthy of this level of attention. He was reduced to a bit part on a poor team. Regardless if he stays or goes, Shaka has way more important issue to deal with. Get the top 12 players set then worry about the last 3 spots.

Agreed. Hamilton has shown some improvement bit has a low bar. But the amount of criticism he receives is unfair considering all the other issues MU faces. Biggest one is Shakas recruiting strategy/failures.

[MU82]

Not sure if it was addressed while the game was still going on because I don't hang out in game threads, but ...

It was absolutely idiotic for Tre Carroll to foul with less than 2 seconds left and with us having to make a 90-foot shot to tie. It's hard to believe L'il Rickie wanted that foul; if so, shame on him. The foul actually gave us a chance to tie the game if we had been a little luckier with the way Parham's intentional miss bounced.

I hope no Marquette player ever does anything so stoopid.

[Small Orange Soda]

So Scoop is reduced to arguing the degree of ineptness of Hamilton? Uhhg!

CH is not worthy of this level of attention. He was reduced to a bit part on a poor team. Regardless if he stays or goes, Shaka has way more important issue to deal with. Get the top 12 players set then worry about the last 3 spots.

I think when your starting center gets reduced to a bit part then that's a real misevaluation, which is a problem. Nobody who dismisses the complaints about him ever defends his basketball skills, they just deflect. Why defend a guy who is a consistent net negative when everyone except the coach appears to realize that? In a close game, five minutes of Caedin is five too many.

[WhiteTrash]

I think when your starting center gets reduced to a bit part then that's a real misevaluation, which is a problem. Nobody who dismisses the complaints about him ever defends his basketball skills, they just deflect. Why defend a guy who is a consistent net negative when everyone except the coach appears to realize that? In a close game, five minutes of Caedin is five too many.

While I agree Hamilton would be better elsewhere than MU, his presence or absence doesn't move the needle on MU next year nearly as much as other moves that need to be made. 

[Rimrocker]

Here is where numbers can skew the reality.  Basketball is a game of runs.  When caedin and Tre check in, for some reason seemingly always together.  The other team almost always goes on a run.
A perfect example was the Depaul home game.  MU is up 9-4, in come Normalton and Depaul goes on a 21-0 run.  Now they came out long before all the 21 points were scored but it was their horrendous play that gave Depaul confidence and made it easy for that run to start.  It has been happening all year.

[Zog from Margo]

While I agree Hamilton would be better elsewhere than MU, his presence or absence doesn't move the needle on MU next year nearly as much as other moves that need to be made. 

Why should he take a roster spot from someone who might provide positive minutes?

[wisblue]

Not sure if it was addressed while the game was still going on because I don't hang out in game threads, but ...

It was absolutely idiotic for Tre Carroll to foul with less than 2 seconds left and with us having to make a 90-foot shot to tie. It's hard to believe L'il Rickie wanted that foul; if so, shame on him. The foul actually gave us a chance to tie the game if we had been a little luckier with the way Parham's intentional miss bounced.

I hope no Marquette player ever does anything so stoopid.

I thought the same thing.

At that point MU's chances of winning were somewhere between very slim and none. But that foul inched the needle a little closer to very slim.

Whenever I see a situation Like that I think of a rec league game I played in about 45 years ago. My team grabbed a rebound and got fouled with one second left and a one point lead. We were patting ourselves on the back while our teammate went to the line to shoot two free throws. He made the first one, but the second one fell off the rim and a guy grabbed it and heaved at the length of the court (probably about 80 feet on the junior high school court) and swished it.

We were stunned, and also somewhat incredulous that a second hadn't run off the clock, but we managed to regroup and win the game in overtime. We were grateful the guy made the first free-throw that we didn't think would make any difference.

[wisblue]

Why should he take a roster spot from someone who might provide positive minutes?

A 15 man roster is going to have several players who won't provide minutes.

[Pakuni]

A 15 man roster is going to have several players who won't provide minutes.

The roster should include two types of players: those who can provide productive minutes, and those expected to provide productive minutes in the future.
The program shouldn't be expending its resources on anyone who doesn't fit into one of those groups.

[Zog from Margo]

A 15 man roster is going to have several players who won't provide minutes.

That's a luxury MU cannot afford with this roster. Until MU knows it has all of their minutes adequately covered, they should not waste any spots.

[WhiteTrash]

That's a luxury MU cannot afford with this roster. Until MU knows it has all of their minutes adequately covered, they should not waste any spots.

IMO, I'd rather Shaka focused on landing 4 top ten transfers and leave CH at the end of the bench, than showing CH the door and striking out in the portal. Priorities.

[Small Orange Soda]

IMO, I'd rather Shaka focused on landing 4 top ten transfers and leave CH at the end of the bench, than showing CH the door and striking out in the portal. Priorities.

What's the difference between striking out in the portal and keeping Hamilton?

[Pakuni]

IMO, I'd rather Shaka focused on landing 4 top ten transfers and leave CH at the end of the bench, than showing CH the door and striking out in the portal. Priorities.

How would showing CH the door affect Shaka's ability to hit the portal?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I'm more interested on who is getting mins than who is on the team.  It doesn't seem like number of scholarships are a real constraint anymore.

[WhiteTrash]

What's the difference between striking out in the portal and keeping Hamilton?

Presumably, the transfers are being recruited to play significant roles on the team. CH has become a bit player. Portal failure would be 100x more impactful than 4 mpg of CH.

MU can be a damn good team with the right transfers and CH, but they will not be very good without good transfers and CH off the team.

[WhiteTrash]

How would showing CH the door affect Shaka's ability to hit the portal?

I don't think it does. CH is a minor issue compared to the real problems with the team.

[mileskishnish72]

But the amount of criticism he receives is unfair considering all the other issues MU faces. Biggest one is Shakas recruiting strategy/failures.

Willie, oddly enough I agree with you, at least partially. When I see him out there and watch the multiple flaws I have to keep reminding myself that it's not his fault. I think he gets continually criticized because he is the personification of what don't have, but certainly need: a 5 who can keep track of his man, supply some D at the rim, and contribute at least a little something on offense. The root cause, as you point out, is roster construction. The next couple of months should be interesting as regards that issue.
 

[Scoop Snoop]

Willie, oddly enough I agree with you, at least partially. When I see him out there and watch the multiple flaws I have to keep reminding myself that it's not his fault. I think he gets continually criticized because he is the personification of what don't have, but certainly need: a 5 who can keep track of his man, supply some D at the rim, and contribute at least a little something on offense. The root cause, as you point out, is roster construction. The next couple of months should be interesting as regards that issue.
 

Nice post.

Shaka was so determined and confident that he could turn Hamilton into a BE center that he ignored reality. His lack of good judgement in the fiasco still haunts me. Has he learned from this? I sure hope so.