St. John's 2024-25 was overrated

[Jay Bee]

The more I dwell on it, they stunk.

18-2 in the Big East would normally be amazing.. and it still kinda is. Nonetheless, a lot of bad teams in the conference this year.

St. John's offense sucked, and it was largely by design. I suppose Aaron Scott is the one who jumps out as having a worse-than-expected 3FG% performance, but this team couldn't shoot for crap and didn't get to the line. The offense was freaking doomed. #88 in offensive efficiency, #68 kenpom Adj OE. Absolutely brutal.

RJ Luis was fun to watch at times, but here's a 29% %Shots guy had a 48.3% eFG% and was not connected with his coach in the tourney.

They started the year ranked #19 in kenpom.. ended at #14. Never reached the top 10. Offense blew it big time.

The highest KP ranked opponent the entire season? Marquette at 29. Give 'em credit for getting the job against solid but not great opponents, but their three highest KP wins were against the Warriors. Yeesh. 

Their highest KP nonconf win was at home against 41 New Mexico. Next highest? At home vs. 65 Kansas St., a sub-.500 team.

As a comparison, Marquette's highest 3 KP wins? At 10 Maryland, home vs. 12 uw-madison, and home vs. 15 Purdue.

Anyway, just wanted to say that for being 31-5 (18-2), when I look at St. John's in hindsight I say, 'what an eff'd up team.. they were never going to do anything nationally this past season'.

That said, would expect them to address the 3FG% shooting (and alter the 3FGA/FGA mix probably) to some extent -- difficult to not improve,  but would think they'll get after that because otherwise the ceiling is too low.

Crown 'em if you want, but for that record, they were BUMS.

[Galway Eagle]

I had St. John's losing in the second round in my bracket pools. I was the only one, couldn't put my finger on it and was too lazy to really investigate but it constantly seemed like a paper tiger with good defense

[tower912]

Too reliant on the mid range.

[Galway Eagle]

Too reliant on the mid range.

And that aircraft carrier

[Uncle Rico]

Too reliant on the mid range.

The offense was definitely their Achilles heel

Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died

[Jay Bee]

The offense was definitely their Achilles heel

Pitino failed to adapt to the modern game and then he died

Has never been strong when it comes to the deep game.

[withoutbias]

Has never been strong when it comes to the deep game.

Sounds like you're speaking from experience, ai'na?

[WolfganghisKhan]

Did they not win the regular season and BET???

[Jay Bee]

Did they not win the regular season and BET???

Yes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.

[MU82]

Yes, and High Point did the same in the Big South.

Buzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!

[MuMark]

Buzz was right about the Big East becoming a low-tier conference!

But he left the BE for the ACC which has become even worse!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

[Uncle Rico]

Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

Adapt or die. 

[MU82]

Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

RJ Luis is available.

[HutchwasClutch]

Im also not sure what they're planning for next season. They're collecting talent,  but who is going to run that offense? None of their current projected roster had an assist rate above 10 last season. Assists are a style stat.... but having no one who likes to pass will be interesting to watch.

Just think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

[tower912]

Just think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

Like Shaka had done two years prior.

[mileskishnish72]

A couple of prescient scoopers had opined that SJU wouldn't get far in the Dance because they were used to mugging BE teams and they wouldn't get away with it in the tournament.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just think if Pitino understood this concept, maybe he could figure out a way to start winning at this level. Heck, he might even figure out what it takes to win championships and turn programs around quickly that have been bottom feeders for years. 

So youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?

[HutchwasClutch]

So youre saying you should trust a coach who won a double big east championship and earned a 2 seed in year 2? Even if he got upset in the round of 32?

When you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When you have a HOF resume like Pitino, yes. 

So even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable

[HutchwasClutch]

So even HOF coaches get upset as 2 seeds in the round of 32? I thought it was unacceptable

When Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too.  Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt.  You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene. 

[MU82]

Pitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.

He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.

Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means  nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.

Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.

[Scoop Snoop]

Pitino has won 2 NCAAT games in his last 6 seasons as a head coach. He followed each of the 2 wins with second-round losses as a 2-seed, with Louisville in 2017 and with St. John's last month.

He has one fewer NCAAT win and one fewer Sweet 16 appearance over that span than Shaka does, and we all know that Shaka is an abject failure.

Folks say that Shaka hasn't been to a Final Four in so long that it means  nothing in the context of how he should be judged at Marquette, and those folks are probably correct.

Well, it's been 12 years since Pitino has coached a team to the Final Four. He has more major scandals in that time than FF appearances.

If Hutch is willing to consider cutting Shaka some slack , perhaps you could cut Pitino some also.

[willie warrior]

Like Shaka had done two years prior.

And has not sniffed closely since then. C'mon Tower, get current.

[wadesworld]

And has not sniffed closely since then. C'mon Tower, get current.

He was a 2 seed last year.

[tower912]

Rent free.

[The Sultan]

When Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too.  Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt.  You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene. 

Pitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

When Shaka's had multiple national titles, Final Fours, and second weekends, I'll cut him the same slack too.  Pitino's earned a few more benefits of the doubt.  You act like Pitino just arrived on the scene. 

You're missing the point.

If it can happen to a HOF coach, then it can certainly happen to a non HOF coach.  You should expect more of a HOF coach, not less.

[cheebs09]

Pitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.

Well, I still give him credit for 2013.

[HutchwasClutch]

You're missing the point.

If it can happen to a HOF coach, then it can certainly happen to a non HOF coach.  You should expect more of a HOF coach, not less.

You haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all.  I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully. 

[The Sultan]

You haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all.  I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully. 

His point was that he didn't know who was going to run the offense because they don't have a clear distributor. And provided evidence to support his question.

Your point was something along the lines of since he has been a winning coach, he has a good idea of what he is doing. Which is strange because he's hardly without error - I mean, look at this year's team as an example.

His argument is WAY more compelling than yours.

[HutchwasClutch]

His point was that he didn't know who was going to run the offense because they don't have a clear distributor. And provided evidence to support his question.

Your point was something along the lines of since he has been a winning coach, he has a good idea of what he is doing. Which is strange because he's hardly without error - I mean, look at this year's team as an example.

His argument is WAY more compelling than yours.

Thanks for your analysis Fluffy.  Your opinion is so important to me. 

[The Sultan]

Thanks for your analysis Fluffy.  Your opinion is so important to me. 

It should be. I'm very smart.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You haven't even responded to my original post, which wasn't meant as any commentary on Shaka or any other coaches for that matter at all.  I guess when you accuse strange roster building to a coach that has done nothing but win big at every program he's been and get called out for it, that's what you're left to change the argument so your first point is forgotten hopefully. 

Your original post didn't warrant a response. I didn't say anything negative about Pitino. I said "I'm not sure what theyre planning" and "it will be interesting to watch." I actually agree that Pitino is a great coach and will figure it out (though I think hes having to call an audible because I think he thought he had Xaivian Lee in the bag).

I was amused that the evidence you used to white knight for Pitino was also a word for word description of Shaka.

[HutchwasClutch]

Nm

[HutchwasClutch]

Your original post didn't warrant a response. I didn't say anything negative about Pitino. I said "I'm not sure what theyre planning" and "it will be interesting to watch." I actually agree that Pitino is a great coach and will figure it out (though I think hes having to call an audible because I think he thought he had Xaivian Lee in the bag).

I was amused that the evidence you used to white knight for Pitino was also a word for word description of Shaka.

So you "actually agree" all this time it turns out.  Guess I should have read your mind before my first response. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So you "actually agree" all this time it turns out.  Guess I should have read your mind before my first response. 

?

I don't know why you think mind reading was needed. I didn't feel the need to affirm that Pitino is a good coach so I didn't respond. In your last post,  you brought up that I hadnt responded so I did.

I was interested in your effusive praise for Pitonos accomplishments at St Johns given that Shaka accomplished the exact same thing at Marquette. So I posted about that topic. I thought we were having a conversation about that.

[BLWarrior91]

Pitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.

I see what you did here!  Well played.

Thinking of Rick's single title at UK, let's never forget when his 1994 team got rolled by KO's Warriors.  Still one of my favorite wins in program history.

[Galway Eagle]

Pitino won one national championship, 29 years ago.

Revoking championships is a stupid punishment. It's not like we were given a Bug East championship for 2012, it's not like 2013 never happened or that Michigan now won.

Sure on the record books Pitino has one championship, but he's won two.

[The Sultan]

Revoking championships is a stupid punishment. It's not like we were given a Bug East championship for 2012, it's not like 2013 never happened or that Michigan now won.

Sure on the record books Pitino has one championship, but he's won two.

He's won one. Cheating to win one doesn't count.

[Galway Eagle]

He's won one. Cheating to win one doesn't count.

Haha sure chip

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/330980097/michigan-louisville

[The Sultan]

Haha sure chip

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/game/_/gameId/330980097/michigan-louisville

Since rescinded bub. Try to keep up.

[Galway Eagle]

Since rescinded bub. Try to keep up.

So he did not win a second championship game? No. Fact is he won two championship games. Editing books because of the prostitution scandal doesnt erase reality that they won the championship in 2013.

[The Sultan]

So he did not win a second championship game? No. Fact is he won two championship games. Editing books because of the prostitution scandal doesnt erase reality that they won the championship in 2013.

Nope. Again try to keep up. It was recinded. He's won one championship.

[Galway Eagle]

Nope. Again try to keep up. It was recinded. He's won one championship.

Did Robert Traylor play basketball at Michigan?

[The Sultan]

Did Robert Traylor play basketball at Michigan?

Of course. Just like Pitino coached at Lousiville in 2013.

(You're not catching me in your simplistic trap by the way.)

[Galway Eagle]

Of course. Just like Pitino coached at Lousiville in 2013.

So reality happened. One person could count it as what happened one person can go by the official record. Without setting parameters beforehand determining what data set to work off of both would be accurate.

Traylor played basketball at Michigan, he never officially played at Michigan according to the record books.

[The Sultan]

False. Robert Traylor officially played at Michigan. Just like Rick Pitino officially coached at Louisville.

[Galway Eagle]

False. Robert Traylor officially played at Michigan. Just like Rick Pitino officially coached at Louisville.

Hell, Louisville won the national championship with a point guard with a worse FG% than Junior!!! 

[The Sultan]

Title was revoked in 2018.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As expected,  SJU lands Ian Jackson. Keeping with the trend, Jackson had a sub 10 assist rate. But Pitino tweeted that Jackson will be their starting PG. I will be very impressed if Pitino turns Jackson into a PG

[BCHoopster]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

[Uncle Rico]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

Pretty worrisome on April 21st

[tower912]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

That is always been an issue and in times past you said he was the savior.   
R-E-L-A-X.

[willie warrior]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

Sean will reject their shots with his hops gained from a bionic knee. That surely is why everybody is clamoring that he is definitely starting.

[Uncle Rico]

Sean will reject their shots with his hops gained from a bionic knee. That surely is why everybody is clamoring that he is definitely starting.

Everybody?  Bionic knee?  Who said that?  Maybe it's a knee made of dung?

[MU82]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

[Billy Hoyle]

Starting guards right now are 6,4" or 5, see how Sean Jones handles that? Can post him up all day!

but, but, but, family, growth and development...

[wadesworld]

but, but, but, family, growth and development...

Not even the right motto.  But you tried.