2025 Transfer Portal

[MUbiz]

I think you are using a lot of hindsight here.

Not at all - going into 2023, you could look at the predictive metrics and see we were going to be better than what people were saying. Alan wrote on this and called it out before the season started.

Assuming we get zero xfers, our metrics will not be as strong going into next year as they were heading into 2023.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'm not sure that matters. Is using the portal only wise/necessary when you lose players to the portal?
We're losing high-end players to graduation and replacing them with question marks.
Will Sean Jones not only look like himself pre-injury, but be a better version of himself to be given the keys to the offense?
Can Tre Norman bounce back, or is this who he is?
Can Parham at least replicate what Joplin provided?
Can Owens figure it out?

I can't be the only one who'd be more comfortable with a proven commodity in the post next year instead of just crossing our fingers and hope ... what? Ben hits the weight room really hard and adds at least a little variety to his game? Caedin Hamilton takes a massive leap? Josh Clark is a revelation, the way Hamilton was supposed to be this year?
Sure, all those things could happen. But hope isn't a strategy.

I've said this before but you'd have been clamoring to use the portal going into the 22-23 season with all of the question marks surrounding that team. 

How did that season turn out?

Now, I'm certainly not saying to expect a protected seed next year but it's pretty f'n clear that Shaka's strategy is not "hope". 

[Pakuni]

I'm not saying this will happen again but in 2023 did you foresee us sweeping the big east titles and getting a 2 seed after losing Darryl Kur and Justin?

It'd be great to pull in portal guys but if not pulling them in gets these guys a ton of experience and we're back as a protected seed in 2027 then I'm here for it.

I nearly mentioned this in my post because I expected this response.

You're not wrong. Something similar could happen. But I think the cast of returning players from 2022-23 was far more proven than this group.

TK started 32 games the previous year and led the Big East in assists. There were questions about whether his shooting would ever come around, but there was no doubt he was a starting quality BE point guard.
Kam was unanimous all-newcomer team. It was obvious he was going to be a good one.
OMax, Oso and Stevie were less known qualities, but all showed more than the current group of young players outside of Zaide.

So, yeah, definitely some similarities, but I think the questions are much larger with next year's group than that one.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I think there was quite the difference between 2023 and next year:

Omax was a top 20 power forward coming out of high school and was not being used right at Clemson. Kolek was freshman of the year in A10. We saw that Kam could be good his freshman year.

Next year, we have Tre Norman, who has regressed. We have Sean Jones, who will not have played in nearly 2 years. And we do not have anyone that has shown they can consistently be the alpha and lead the team in scoring.

We didn't have anyone going into 22-23 that had remotely shown they could consistently be the alpha and lead the team in scoring. 

[MUbiz]

We didn't have anyone going into 22-23 that had remotely shown they could consistently be the alpha and lead the team in scoring. 

We will have to agree to disagree, but we had more talent on that 22-23 roster than next year. We will have to wait to kenpom is updated for next year to compare, but the reason the numbers nerds were so excited about 22-23 was because the numbers were saying something different than what the media was. 

[MUbiz]

https://x.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1907161093367058733

[MU82]

We didn't have anyone going into 22-23 that had remotely shown they could consistently be the alpha and lead the team in scoring. 

Yeah, Big East coaches picked us to finish 9th, and it wasn't because they just didn't like the "Pray" video.

Even the guys who turned out to be NBAers: Kolek couldn't shoot, couldn't go right, turned the ball over too much, had no float game; Oso had shown zero offensive ability and was skinny; Offensively, OMax was mostly known for falling on the floor and being a bad ballhandler. Plus, Stevie was an offensive liability and Joplin was not exactly a 5-star incoming freshman.

None of which means that Shaka shouldn't consider a transfer or two this offseason, BTW.

[NCMUFan]

I have to believe the biggest issue of MU not using the portal is that MUSCOOP cannot comment on it.  What fun is that?

[Galway Eagle]

I nearly mentioned this in my post because I expected this response.

You're not wrong. Something similar could happen. But I think the cast of returning players from 2022-23 was far more proven than this group.

TK started 32 games the previous year and led the Big East in assists. There were questions about whether his shooting would ever come around, but there was no doubt he was a starting quality BE point guard.
Kam was unanimous all-newcomer team. It was obvious he was going to be a good one.
OMax, Oso and Stevie were less known qualities, but all showed more than the current group of young players outside of Zaide.

So, yeah, definitely some similarities, but I think the questions are much larger with next year's group than that one.

I think there was quite the difference between 2023 and next year:

Omax was a top 20 power forward coming out of high school and was not being used right at Clemson. Kolek was freshman of the year in A10. We saw that Kam could be good his freshman year.

Next year, we have Tre Norman, who has regressed. We have Sean Jones, who will not have played in nearly 2 years. And we do not have anyone that has shown they can consistently be the alpha and lead the team in scoring.

Regarding Omax: Wait till you find out was Damarius Owens was... let alone that Zaide was 23rd.

Kolek I agree but Sean despite not having played in awhile is a proven commodity.

Chase is a proven veteran player that should more than compensate for Kam.

Ben has shown more at this point than Oso had going into his junior year.

Again I'm not saying we're going to be a 2 seed and sweep the titles or that it's a perfect comp but to act like the sky is falling and there's no precedent for success after not going into the portal is absurd.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have to believe the biggest issue of MU not using the portal is that MUSCOOP cannot comment on it.  What fun is that?

Oh we're commenting

[Vander Blue Man Group]

We will have to agree to disagree, but we had more talent on that 22-23 roster than next year. We will have to wait to kenpom is updated for next year to compare, but the reason the numbers nerds were so excited about 22-23 was because the numbers were saying something different than what the media was. 

Comparing returning talent is a different argument and, is in part, hindsight driven, IMO.

The fact remains that our leading returning scorer was Kam at 7 PPG.  Kolek was coming off a year where he could not shoot.  Oso was a solid back-up 5. 

There were a TON of legitimate questions about that team going into the season. 

[Its DJOver]

Again I'm not saying we're going to be a 2 seed and sweep the titles or that it's a perfect comp but to act like the sky is falling and there's no precedent for success after not going into the portal is absurd.

I'd also add, again, that we don't know that Shaka isn't pursuing players via the portal.  Everything, for the most part, is happening behind closed doors. It is April 1st, portal season has weeks to run, we could very well still land someone that hasn't been mentioned here at all.

[MUbiz]

Regarding Omax: Wait till you find out was Damarius Owens was... let alone that Zaide was 23rd.

Kolek I agree but Sean despite not having played in awhile is a proven commodity.

Chase is a proven veteran player that should more than compensate for Kam.

Ben has shown more at this point than Oso had going into his junior year.

Again I'm not saying we're going to be a 2 seed and sweep the titles or that it's a perfect comp but to act like the sky is falling and there's no precedent for success after not going into the portal is absurd.

Chase is a good player, but he will not fully take the place of Kam. Sean is not a proven commodity at this point, as he has not played in 2 years. Ben is not Oso - Oso is a NBA player. Ben has not shown NBA talent to date and he is a turnstile on defense against any competent big man. Owens has the ability to be Omax like, but of course has to prove it.

The sky is not falling, but next years team for me, is the true transition year that many thought this past year would be. But we will have to wait to November to see if that is the case.

[MUbiz]

Comparing returning talent is a different argument and, is in part, hindsight driven, IMO.

The fact remains that our leading returning scorer was Kam at 7 PPG.  Kolek was coming off a year where he could shoot.  Oso was a solid back-up 5. 

There were a TON of legitimate questions about that team going into the season. 

It is not hindsight driven if you look at the metrics from the pre season. That 22-23 team had much better metrics than what people were saying about them. We will have to wait until next year to see what the metrics look like on next years team.

[wadesworld]

Sigh.
Nobody is crying. It's a discussion forum. People are discussing things. Not every idea that isn't yours is crying.

But when every time a new big name pops up in the portal comes with a "Well wouldn't he look nice in MU colors?" or a big name in the portal commits somewhere and it's met with, "Huh, imagine attempting to improve your roster!" it definitely gets to the point of crying.  I don't remember you being much of a whiner before the late season slide.  But you've definitely been crying a lot here recently.

[wadesworld]

I'm not sure that matters. Is using the portal only wise/necessary when you lose players to the portal?
We're losing high-end players to graduation and replacing them with question marks.
Will Sean Jones not only look like himself pre-injury, but be a better version of himself to be given the keys to the offense?
Can Tre Norman bounce back, or is this who he is?
Can Parham at least replicate what Joplin provided?
Can Owens figure it out?

I can't be the only one who'd be more comfortable with a proven commodity in the post next year instead of just crossing our fingers and hope ... what? Ben hits the weight room really hard and adds at least a little variety to his game? Caedin Hamilton takes a massive leap? Josh Clark is a revelation, the way Hamilton was supposed to be this year?
Sure, all those things could happen. But hope isn't a strategy.

I'm guessing Shaka's seen these guys and has an idea of whether they can compete at a BE level or not.  He's been doing this for a while, and pretty successfully.  Shaka's a competitive guy.  He's a successful guy.  He's not just blindly crossing his fingers and hoping.  He knows what he has.  The next time he doesn't at least meet expectations, and the next time he doesn't make the Tournament, at MU will be the first.  Until then, giving him the benefit of the doubt is fair.

[Galway Eagle]

Chase is a good player, but he will not fully take the place of Kam. 

That's not the argument I'm making, the question at hand is whether he's comparable to Kam returning from Sophomore year. Absolutely he is.

Ben is not Oso - Oso is a NBA player. Ben has not shown NBA talent to date and he is a turnstile on defense against any competent big man. 

Oso after 2022 was not Oso either. Again the argument you're making is these players after the 2023 season. It's not the argument I made. Ben at this moment is a more proven player than Oso going into 2023

Owens has the ability to be Omax like, but of course has to prove it. 

Similar to how Omax had to. If you use the argument of Omax's recruiting rankings as proof to a players potential and reasoning why we weren't panicking back then, then that same logic should apply to Owens.

Sean is not a proven commodity at this point, as he has not played in 2 years.

He is. The fact is he has 49 D1 basketball games under his belt and was averaging a decent chunk of minutes (12 Fr yr and 16 So yr). He might not be the same player, but he is a proven player. Maybe we have different definitions of the term. I wouldn't call Tre a proven player for example.

The sky is not falling, but next years team for me, is the true transition year that many thought this past year would be. But we will have to wait to November to see if that is the case.

Agree 100%, I think Shaka has enough proof in his pudding to earn doubling down on it this year. If it fails then time to pivot

[Pakuni]

Again I'm not saying we're going to be a 2 seed and sweep the titles or that it's a perfect comp but to act like the sky is falling and there's no precedent for success after not going into the portal is absurd.

I'm pretty sure neither I or Biz are doing this.

[MuMark]

https://x.com/portal_updates/status/1907182571353452547?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw

[mileskishnish72]

None of which means that Shaka shouldn't consider a transfer or two this offseason, BTW.

I like the way Shaka has been doing things and it's hard to argue with his results (2025 excepted). Other than his needing to find transfers to field a team his first year, this would seem to be the point in time that would make a transfer necessary and desirable - and I think it can be accomplished without destroying team chemistry. He has the board numbers from what we did this year and can easily project what that will likely mean for next year.

He's said he might use the portal to replace outgoing players. Does this extend to Big AL?

[bilsu]

Knowing what we know now, how would you predict the order next year's Big East teams?
My gut feeling is the Big East may only get three bids. I can see MU finishing in the top 3.

[wadesworld]

Knowing what we know now, how would you predict the order next year's Big East teams?
My gut feeling is the Big East may only get three bids. I can see MU finishing in the top 3.

I'll just assume SJU, MU, Creighton, and UCONN are going to be good until they aren't with Pitino, Shaka, McDermott, and Hurley running those programs.

It's impossible to know what rosters will look like going into next season at this point.  Willard seems like a guy who should be able to land some decent transfers, so maybe they can be a bubble type team next year.  Pitino Jr. will have a complete rebuild.  Georgetown could be a bubble type team depending on who stays and who comes in.  Butler has a nice recruiting class and just landed a high scoring mid major transfer.  Holtmann has DePaul heading in the right direction, but doubt they're a Tourney team in year 2.

If I had to blindly guess I'd say 5 bids for the BE.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is not hindsight driven if you look at the metrics from the pre season. That 22-23 team had much better metrics than what people were saying about them. We will have to wait until next year to see what the metrics look like on next years team.

We will have to agree to disagree, but we had more talent on that 22-23 roster than next year. We will have to wait to kenpom is updated for next year to compare, but the reason the numbers nerds were so excited about 22-23 was because the numbers were saying something different than what the media was. 

What are you talking about? KenPom ranked us 76th in the preseason metrics that year. I have no idea what we will be ranked preseason next year but it will likely be higher

[The Sultan]

What are you talking about? KenPom ranked us 76th in the preseason metrics that year. I have no idea what we will be ranked preseason next year but it will likely be higher

Thank you.

[Billy Hoyle]

Nice get for Butler. A guy I'd mentioned as being someone I'd MU could get as a scoring PG

https://x.com/DushawnLondon1/status/1907130605860426214?t=RXlsu4hrnkDUhODBpuJeLA&s=19