Grade Non-Con

[wadesworld]

The terribly scheduled road game at a mid major who we are so far above dropped us 2 spots in Kenpom and 3 spots in the AP poll.

Guess the boys have to strap up the laces and show up to the game Wednesday.  The season that was over appears to be back on after all.

By the way, Dayton won a Tournament game last year, lost 3 of their top 4 scorers, and will be a first round favorite this year.  The idea that they'll be some awful mid-major next year is just as crazy as thinking Marquette is about to fall off a cliff because we lose Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, and David Joplin.

[🏀]

ABD

[loid walden]

B   and I'm a hard grader

[brewcity77]

If youre going to give casual fans enough credit to know that Buffalo that Buffalo was a good low major opponet that year,  you gotta give them enough credit to know that Dayton is one of the top mid majors every season.

Unless we tank, that game will be packed

Buffalo was undefeated and ranked. It wasn't casuals knowing Buffalo was good. I'm taking the under on Dayton being top-14 and the over on losses at zero.

It's pretty much a once in a lifetime situation to get a buy game level opponent like Buffalo or Dayton to be undefeated and top-15. We're not adding STHs because they see Dayton and think "I gotta see that!"

[wadesworld]

Buffalo was undefeated and ranked. It wasn't casuals knowing Buffalo was good. I'm taking the under on Dayton being top-14 and the over on losses at zero.

It's pretty much a once in a lifetime situation to get a buy game level opponent like Buffalo or Dayton to be undefeated and top-15. We're not adding STHs because they see Dayton and think "I gotta see that!"

I'm guessing Dayton won't be 11-0 because their schedule won't consist of St. Francis, West Virginia (finished 15-21 after losing to Coastal Carolina in the CBI that year), Southern Illinois, Dartmouth, Marist, Milwaukee, San Francisco, Le Moyne, St. Bonaventure, Southern Illinois (yes, they played the same team twice in the non-conference), and Syracuse (a good win against a 20-14 team that lost in the first round).

[The Sultan]

Buffalo was undefeated and ranked. It wasn't casuals knowing Buffalo was good. I'm taking the under on Dayton being top-14 and the over on losses at zero.

It's pretty much a once in a lifetime situation to get a buy game level opponent like Buffalo or Dayton to be undefeated and top-15. We're not adding STHs because they see Dayton and think "I gotta see that!"

Well, no. I guess I never thought that the quality of the non-conference slate is why STHs are added anyway. I would guess than about 90% of STHs are added because Marquette is doing well.

If Marquette is good, and the game is on a weekend, it will draw a big crowd.

[Uncle Rico]

Well, no. I guess I never thought that the quality of the non-conference slate is why STHs are added anyway. I would guess than about 90% of STHs are added because Marquette is doing well.

If Marquette is good, and the game is on a weekend, it will draw a big crowd.

Hope we add Wake Forest or Nebraska next year

[K1 Lover]

Buffalo was undefeated and ranked. It wasn't casuals knowing Buffalo was good. I'm taking the under on Dayton being top-14 and the over on losses at zero.

It's pretty much a once in a lifetime situation to get a buy game level opponent like Buffalo or Dayton to be undefeated and top-15. We're not adding STHs because they see Dayton and think "I gotta see that!"

Honest question. Do you work for Marquette's ticket office? I'm trying to understand why you have such heavy concern over season ticket holders.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Buffalo was undefeated and ranked. It wasn't casuals knowing Buffalo was good. I'm taking the under on Dayton being top-14 and the over on losses at zero.

It's pretty much a once in a lifetime situation to get a buy game level opponent like Buffalo or Dayton to be undefeated and top-15. We're not adding STHs because they see Dayton and think "I gotta see that!"

Buffalo didn't add any STHs. And thats okay because that's not how STHs get added. They get added by the team being consistently good. We're at a record for STHs and that will continue as long as we are at this level.

What Buffalo added was some single ticket buyers and those 1. Do not make or break a program 2. Are just as likely to know that Dayton is a quality non con opponet that they were that Buffalo was.

[Jay Bee]

B   and I'm a hard grader

Pawz

[MuMark]

Or we could use a pass/fail system?

Did our non conference performance put us in a position to make the NCAA tournament and get a high seed if we perform well in conference?

Pass

[K1 Lover]

Or we could use a pass/fail system?

Did our non conference performance put us in a position to make the NCAA tournament and get a high seed if we perform well in conference?

Pass

Fail because we're hosting Dayton at home next season.

[brewcity77]

Honest question. Do you work for Marquette's ticket office? I'm trying to understand why you have such heavy concern over season ticket holders.

Because we should act like a big boy program, not a mid-major. We're not UW-Milwaukee or even DePaul. This series is zero gain. You win, you're supposed to. You lose, you hand them at at-large bid that potentially hurts the Big East by shrinking the field. In the return, again, no gain. People aren't going out of their way for that game unless there's an unusual circumstance, and you have to win.

This is why we don't give home games to UW-Green Bay or Milwaukee anymore. Dayton isn't Gonzaga or even San Diego State. They are worthy of a buy game, nothing more.

[wadesworld]

Because we should act like a big boy program, not a mid-major. We're not UW-Milwaukee or even DePaul. This series is zero gain. You win, you're supposed to. You lose, you hand them at at-large bid that potentially hurts the Big East by shrinking the field. In the return, again, no gain. People aren't going out of their way for that game unless there's an unusual circumstance, and you have to win.

This is why we don't give home games to UW-Green Bay or Milwaukee anymore. Dayton isn't Gonzaga or even San Diego State. They are worthy of a buy game, nothing more.

Dayton's not Milwaukee or Green Bay.

Dayton was already getting an at large bid.

There was no downside at all. Win? Q1 road win. Lose? Selection committee won't even blink at a Q1 road loss.

Dropped us so far that we're in the top 10 of human polls and computer metrics.

Quit acting like we're above playing a very good team. Pretending they're Milwaukee because they play in a 3 bid league (the same amount of bids the BE has last year and may have again this year) while ignoring they won a Tourney game last year and will be favored to do so again this year is crazy.

[CountryRoads]

People aren't going out of their way for that game unless there's an unusual circumstance, and you have to win.

There's a very small percentage of people in the market for MU tickets and those that are know who Dayton is and would understand that it is a high level game. It's especially more of a draw next year since we lost to them this year. Hell, I'm already excited to attend the game next year and get payback on them.

If they are nothing more than a worthy buy game, then why are they getting invited to prominent MTEs like Maui and Atlantis? Why aren't those tournaments inviting the bottom half of the high majors instead?

[brewcity77]

Quit acting like we're above playing a very good team. Pretending they're Milwaukee because they play in a 3 bid league (the same amount of bids the BE has last year and may have again this year) while ignoring they won a Tourney game last year and will be favored to do so again this year is crazy.

I'm not saying we're above playing them. If they want to be a buy game like George Mason, fine. But yes, we are above H/H with A10 teams. Which has been Marquette's policy for over a decade.

Unless we think UDPride was right...

[K1 Lover]

Because we should act like a big boy program, not a mid-major. We're not UW-Milwaukee or even DePaul. This series is zero gain. You win, you're supposed to. You lose, you hand them at at-large bid that potentially hurts the Big East by shrinking the field. In the return, again, no gain. People aren't going out of their way for that game unless there's an unusual circumstance, and you have to win.

This is why we don't give home games to UW-Green Bay or Milwaukee anymore. Dayton isn't Gonzaga or even San Diego State. They are worthy of a buy game, nothing more.

Thanks for answering. Though that didn't answer my question on why STH sales specifically are such a big deal for you - unless it relates to the conversation you mentioned you previously had with the athletic department.

In any case, you make a great point and I believe what you're saying is valid. Though it's not as large of an issue to me (at least not yet), I agree I'd rather have Dayton and the rest of the A10 stay right where they are. Dayton was good/beneficial competition for us and probably will be again next year. But the last thing the Big East needs is more reason for others to think we're closer to a mid-major conference than a high-major one. So to that end, I'm with you.

[brewcity77]

I care about program perception. There's a reason VCU has a clause in their contract that you have to play at Siegel if you poach their coach. Because no high major with an iota of sense goes there voluntarily.

Is VCU our next H/H because of Shaka's connection there? Should we give one to Bradley out of respect for Brian Wardle? Those are Q1 games right now too.

The answer to those should be no, just like it should be no to Drake, UC Irvine, and North Texas. Because playing those games as series can only hurt you. The A10, American, MVC, Big West, WCC, MWC, MAC, those are all leagues that we should only see in non-con as buy games or MTEs. That's it.

Saturday is the exact reason why teams like us don't play games like that, nor should we.

[Scoop Snoop]

I care about program perception. There's a reason VCU has a clause in their contract that you have to play at Siegel if you poach their coach. Because no high major with an iota of sense goes there voluntarily.

Is VCU our next H/H because of Shaka's connection there? Should we give one to Bradley out of respect for Brian Wardle? Those are Q1 games right now too.

The answer to those should be no, just like it should be no to Drake, UC Irvine, and North Texas. Because playing those games as series can only hurt you. The A10, American, MVC, Big West, WCC, MWC, MAC, those are all leagues that we should only see in non-con as buy games or MTEs. That's it.

Saturday is the exact reason why teams like us don't play games like that, nor should we.

All that you wrote could be said of Gonzaga over the years. Mark Few had the brass balls to take on the Big Boys and the little school from Spokane became known for a lot more than their funny sounding name.

[🏀]

I care about program perception. There's a reason VCU has a clause in their contract that you have to play at Siegel if you poach their coach. Because no high major with an iota of sense goes there voluntarily.

Is VCU our next H/H because of Shaka's connection there? Should we give one to Bradley out of respect for Brian Wardle? Those are Q1 games right now too.

The answer to those should be no, just like it should be no to Drake, UC Irvine, and North Texas. Because playing those games as series can only hurt you. The A10, American, MVC, Big West, WCC, MWC, MAC, those are all leagues that we should only see in non-con as buy games or MTEs. That's it.

Saturday is the exact reason why teams like us don't play games like that, nor should we.

Brilliant, have a reply.

[brewcity77]

All that you wrote could be said of Gonzaga over the years. Mark Few had the brass balls to take on the Big Boys and the little school from Spokane became known for a lot more than their funny sounding name.

When Dayton goes to 9 straight Sweet 16s with two Final Fours along the way, get back to me. Until then, they are closer to Bradley than Gonzaga.

[Scoop Snoop]

When Dayton goes to 9 straight Sweet 16s with two Final Fours along the way, get back to me. Until then, they are closer to Bradley than Gonzaga.

My point was that Gonzaga's scheduling boldly is the way to go. I'm confused by your response. Maybe I was not clear. Mea culpa.

[DoctorV]

What's wrong with Bradley

[BM1090]

I care about program perception. There's a reason VCU has a clause in their contract that you have to play at Siegel if you poach their coach. Because no high major with an iota of sense goes there voluntarily.

Is VCU our next H/H because of Shaka's connection there? Should we give one to Bradley out of respect for Brian Wardle? Those are Q1 games right now too.

The answer to those should be no, just like it should be no to Drake, UC Irvine, and North Texas. Because playing those games as series can only hurt you. The A10, American, MVC, Big West, WCC, MWC, MAC, those are all leagues that we should only see in non-con as buy games or MTEs. That's it.

Saturday is the exact reason why teams like us don't play games like that, nor should we.

To be honest. I've seen way more chatter about it being a cool thing that Marquette played at Dayton than people saying anything negative about MU losing.

Should we do this every year? No. But it's fine to schedule home and homes with good teams. If Shaka would rather play at Dayton because he thinks it's better for this team than playing Dayton at home or at Nebraska, then we should do that.

If MU keeps having seasons like they've been having nobody is going to think they are a lesser program for the occasional mid major home and home.

And yeah, if Shaka wants to play a home and home with VCU bc he values his time there then I'd support that too.

[The Sultan]

Brew I agree with you in general that we should not be scheduling H/H with A10 schools. I am convinced that either something fell through with another major opponent OR something else happened (Shaka connection to the school or to Grant) that lead this to be the best option. If they told you they were going to avoid this in May, then something changed right?

But if you're going to schedule a mid-major, this is the one to schedule. A quality opponent and historic rival.

Finally I would love to schedule like a top program. I would love to fly over the country for neutral site games against the likes of Kansas and Gonzaga a couple times a year. But we're not yet at that level. Hope we can be.