Grade Non-Con

[muwarrior69]

All that you wrote could be said of Gonzaga over the years. Mark Few had the brass balls to take on the Big Boys and the little school from Spokane became known for a lot more than their funny sounding name.

...and once Few retires will Gonzaga be as successful? Just look at Nova; look at us during the 7-year run with Wojo.

[Scoop Snoop]

...and once Few retires will Gonzaga be as successful? Just look at Nova; look at us during the 7-year run with Wojo.

I'm not seeing the relevance here at all. Whether Gonzaga, Villanova, or any other team declines after a coach leaves, the principle of scheduling as tough of a slate as possible-realizing that your team will likely get beat up in some games-is what I posted about. The departure of a very successful coach is a separate subject.

Edit: And I really do not understand the fairly common assumption that Gonzaga will collapse when Few retires. Why is it so difficult to believe that Gonzaga will be able to hire an "A-list" coach?

[Newsdreams]

Brew I agree with you in general that we should not be scheduling H/H with A10 schools. I am convinced that either something fell through with another major opponent OR something else happened (Shaka connection to the school or to Grant) that lead this to be the best option. If they told you they were going to avoid this in May, then something changed right?

But if you're going to schedule a mid-major, this is the one to schedule. A quality opponent and historic rival.

Finally I would love to schedule like a top program. I would love to fly over the country for neutral site games against the likes of Kansas and Gonzaga a couple times a year. But we're not yet at that level. Hope we can be.

NC State cancelled on us

[Viper]

To be honest. I've seen way more chatter about it being a cool thing that Marquette played at Dayton than people saying anything negative about MU losing.

Should we do this every year? No. But it's fine to schedule home and homes with good teams. If Shaka would rather play at Dayton because he thinks it's better for this team than playing Dayton at home or at Nebraska, then we should do that.

If MU keeps having seasons like they've been having nobody is going to think they are a lesser program for the occasional mid major home and home.

And yeah, if Shaka wants to play a home and home with VCU bc he values his time there then I'd support that too.

agreed.  I feel like folks are stuck on Dayton being a 'mid major'. I don't see Dayton as that, even if most of their conference mates are mid majors. Is Butler a mid major over conferenced in the BE?  Was Creighton a mid that has elevated by way of the BE out of mid-major status? I think HH with programs such as Dayton, VCU, even Drake, are a lot more interest catching than one-offs vs the likes of Ark Pine Bluff, Stonehill etc. Heck, since we'll inevitably play some mids in the NC, I'd toss Green Bay/ Gottlieb a bone and sign a 3 yr deal...2 at FF and 1 at Resch, and Doug talks MU on his national FOX radio show everyday for a week preceding the game!

[The Sultan]

NC State cancelled on us

That is kinda what I heard as well. And if that's the case, then I really can't fault Marquette for doing the H/H with Dayton. But I do agree with brew that these arrangements with A10 schools, or any other mid-major, should not be a thing.

[The Sultan]

agreed.  I feel like folks are stuck on Dayton being a 'mid major'. I don't see Dayton as that, even if most of their conference mates are mid majors. Is Butler a mid major over conferenced in the BE?  Was Creighton a mid that has elevated by way of the BE out of mid-major status? I think HH with programs such as Dayton, VCU, even Drake, are a lot more interest catching than one-offs vs the likes of Ark Pine Bluff, Stonehill etc. Heck, since we'll inevitably play some mids in the NC, I'd toss Green Bay/ Gottlieb a bone and sign a 3 yr deal...2 at FF and 1 at Resch, and Doug talks MU on his national FOX radio show everyday for a week preceding the game!

Sorry but this just isn't smart scheduling. There is no way we should be playing Dayton, VCU or Drake regularly. Butler and Creighton automatically are better for our schedule because they are in the BE and play BE opponents. Dayton, VCU and Drake have to deal with the likes of LaSalle, St. Joes and Murry State as conference members.

And Gottlieb isn't going to be in Green Bay in three years - not to mention no one cares what he says anyway.

[Its DJOver]

Sounds like it was either a H+H with a top tier mid major, which Dayton is, or another buy game. Given that the Beast is down, grabbing another Q1 game seems like a fine decision to me.  Don't expect or think it will become the norm, but considering the circumstances we could have done much worse.

[Jay Bee]

Hopefully in future years our nonconf is just Stonehill at MU 11 times

[TallTitan34]

Hopefully in future years our nonconf is just Stonehill at MU 11 times

Only won 10 of the 11 games by 40.

F.

[Newsdreams]

Hopefully in future years our nonconf is just Stonehill at MU 11 times

Won't cover

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm not seeing the relevance here at all. Whether Gonzaga, Villanova, or any other team declines after a coach leaves, the principle of scheduling as tough of a slate as possible-realizing that your team will likely get beat up in some games-is what I posted about. The departure of a very successful coach is a separate subject.

Edit: And I really do not understand the fairly common assumption that Gonzaga will collapse when Few retires. Why is it so difficult to believe that Gonzaga will be able to hire an "A-list" coach?

GU has already named top assistant Brian Michaelson as the "coach in waiting," assuming he does not bolt for another job as Tommy Lloyd did.
https://collegehoopstoday.net/rothstein-files/mark-few-brian-michaelson-will-be-next-head-coach-at-gonzaga/

[Billy Hoyle]

Hope we add Wake Forest or Nebraska next year

#118 Wake Forest? Let's add #190 Boston College while we're at it. They did just beat mighty Stonehill by 4 and have a solid average attendance of 3900/game in an 8600 seat arena. Minnesota is a good regional rivalry, they're coming in at #169 in the NET. They're such a better opponent than #23 Dayton ever will be. Maybe Big 12 power Central Florida so we can play in a 70% full arena would be a better game and drive attendance when they come back to Milwaukee the following year.

Michigan State has played road games at Loyola Chicago, the Citadel, Bradley, Wright State (they lost that game the year they won the national championship) and Samford. Nobody is questioning their status as a high major. In fact, Izzo schedules those games because they provide a hostile environment that prepares them for Big Ten play.

[wadesworld]

Yeah literally every national basketball podcast I've listened to has praised Shaka for scheduling this game.  If you're concerned with the "perception of the program," this certainly didn't hurt it, outside of MUScoop.

[Newsdreams]

#118 Wake Forest? Let's add #190 Boston College while we're at it. They did just beat mighty Stonehill by 4 and have a solid average attendance of 3900/game in an 8600 seat arena. Minnesota is a good regional rivalry, they're coming in at #169 in the NET. They're such a better opponent than #23 Dayton ever will be. Maybe Big 12 power Central Florida so we can play in a 70% full arena would be a better game and drive attendance when they come back to Milwaukee the following year.

Michigan State has played road games at Loyola Chicago, the Citadel, Bradley, Wright State (they lost that game the year they won the national championship) and Samford. Nobody is questioning their status as a high major. In fact, Izzo schedules those games because they provide a hostile environment that prepares them for Big Ten play.

I'm all for adding an excellent Jesuit institution to our schedule

[Galway Eagle]

I'm all for adding an excellent Jesuit institution to our schedule

We jesuits should collectively beat the B1G and SEC to the punch and preemptively secede from the NCAA. BC can stay.

[Viper]

Sorry but this just isn't smart scheduling. There is no way we should be playing Dayton, VCU or Drake regularly. Butler and Creighton automatically are better for our schedule because they are in the BE and play BE opponents. Dayton, VCU and Drake have to deal with the likes of LaSalle, St. Joes and Murry State as conference members.

And Gottlieb isn't going to be in Green Bay in three years - not to mention no one cares what he says anyway.

I like the Gottlieb outside the box hire. Will it work? Rimming. I don't care who Dayton has to 'deal with' within their conf. Play em.

[Newsdreams]

We jesuits should collectively beat the B1G and SEC to the punch and preemptively secede from the NCAA. BC can stay.

We started by beating the easily top 2 B1G team

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm all for adding an excellent Jesuit institution to our schedule

Santa Clara? Loyola Marymount? Loyola Chicago? SLU? St. Joe's? Let's go get Fairfield and Holy Cross too.

[brewcity77]

I know NC State cancelled; they announced their H/H with Kansas in late May. The thing is, Baylor and Arkansas didn't agree terms on their neutral site game until August. We were in The Bahamas at the same time Baylor was. Most programs didn't announced non-con schedules until July and many of these were being finalized in June. There were other agreements still being negotiated well after NC State fell through. Play Baylor at a neutral, start a H/H on the road with Arkansas, or any of the other programs out there that were still finishing schedules.

In addition, there are always higher quality buy game options that struggle to get games, think about how many times mid-major coaches complain "no one will play us." Get that as a buy game and negotiate a better H/H the following year.

When there are 68 high-majors in other leagues and 282 mid-majors that weren't on their schedule, I'm skeptical that giving up a home game to play Dayton was the only option, and certainly not the best.

[The Sultan]

I like the Gottlieb outside the box hire. Will it work? Rimming. I don't care who Dayton has to 'deal with' within their conf. Play em.

You should care who Dayton has to deal with. It hampers their NET rating, which in turn hampers ours. And that matters for selection and seeding.

And we will see about Gottleib. So far looks over his head but who knows.

[wadesworld]

As a fan (and if I were a head coach), I'm willing to "give up" a game against Lindenwood to play a Q1 road game when I have a team that I think can compete for a BE title and make a deep tournament run.  I'd rather have a game that prepares me for those things than one that brings in a half empty Fiserv Forum, even if I get all the ticket sales from season tickets.

And fans seem to agree, considering the all important season ticket sales are at a record high, even with one less home game to go play at Dayton.

[Lennys Tap]

As a fan (and if I were a head coach), I'm willing to "give up" a game against Lindenwood to play a Q1 road game when I have a team that I think can compete for a BE title and make a deep tournament run.  I'd rather have a game that prepares me for those things than one that brings in a half empty Fiserv Forum, even if I get all the ticket sales from season tickets.

And fans seem to agree, considering the all important season ticket sales are at a record high, even with one less home game to go play at Dayton.

I don't know how anyone could argue with this. But several pages of back and forth here already have proven me to be wrong.

[Its DJOver]

I don't know how anyone could argue with this. But several pages of back and forth here already have proven me to be wrong.

Well as of right now, 92% seems to agree, 2% are clearly trolls, and one person is giving major "old man yells at clouds" vibes. Considering I'm not sure you could get 92% of Scoop to agree that the sky is blue, I'd take this as a win.

[Galway Eagle]

To me this is relatively simple,

Does playing an A10 team on any given year, where we don't know the talent they'll have, have equal or more upside than playing a major opponent? No. Could it potentially? Of course, the A10s about as respectable a mid major conference can get but even if it's a good year and this year it's likely fine, but if Dayton gets hit with injury bug their numbers bottom out much faster than say Georgia or Maryland they're a Toppin or Holmes twisted ankle in previous years from Ls to places like Duquesne and Lasalle. That's why Brew's saying it's risky and we shouldn't play them.

There's also the thumbing your nose at the mid majors which I find a bit funny but only because somewhere UDPride or Fieldhouse are definitely reading it and flipping out.

From a marketing perspective, is there an emotional element for alumni from >55yrs ago? Yes. Is there likely a friends and family overlap in the stakeholder bodies that creates some extra fun? Yes. From that side it's a fine game to schedule.

To me, it's a fine game but they likely could've scheduled a safer alternative but people who care more about Dayton seem to be happy so there's that. I'll personally wait for Loyola Chi.

[K1 Lover]

Funny that this conversation is still going because both "sides" are right, really.

Dayton being on our schedule this year was a good thing since they were great competition for us and the loss should ultimately help us in the long run. I'd MUCH rather have a tournament-level team expose our flaws during the non-con than in March. But from now, we definitely shouldn't have H&Hs with mid-majors that aren't guaranteed to offer the same competition Dayton did. It won't help us or the Big East.

I have a feeling Shaka's learned from this and seriously doubt we'll need to have a conversation like this again in the future. At least I hope not.