Grade Non-Con

[K1 Lover]

I know you're new here, but I didn't write that. I'm not Brewtown Andy nor have I ever written for Anonymous Eagle.

Apologies for the mix-up then. It was suggested to me otherwise. Yet, my point still stands.

[The Sultan]

Just so I'm not accused of being unfair or thinking our outstanding coach is in over his head...

I do think scheduling is going to be increasingly difficult moving forward. With the mega-leagues and diminishing role of MTEs it's going to be harder to get quality non-con games against power conference teams. They'll need to get creative.

And larger in conference schedules.

[Uncle Rico]

And larger in conference schedules.

Maybe a home-and-home with Radford

[K1 Lover]

Read the opening post. It says nothing about player performances. That's you putting your own feelings into my assessment.

Ask every sports fan in the world to rate their team's performance and I can guarantee you that less than 0.0001% answer that question the same way you did.

There's a comedic level of irony in you saying that I'm putting my own feelings into my assessment.

[The Sultan]

I mean we can ask Rico what he meant, but I don't think he meant anything but on court performance.

[🏀]

Scheduling a home and home with Dayton reeked mid-major at the time, now it's aging even worse.

There's no upside for MU, only the downside which they are in now.

[Uncle Rico]

I mean we can ask Rico what he meant, but I don't think he meant anything but on court performance.

That's what I meant but also appreciate the discussion.  If I wanted a topic to stay on-topic, I would not come to scoop anyway expecting that. 

I was not and am not thrilled with the scheduling of Dayton.  But it's such a low priority issue for me in the grand scheme of things I wouldn't include it anyway.  Had we been 9-2 with a loss to Maryland instead, it doesn't change what I think of this team.  I think the ceiling is quite high and will be disappointed if they don't challenge for the Big East regular season title

[Uncle Rico]

Scheduling a home and home with Dayton reeked mid-major at the time, now it's aging even worse.

There's no upside for MU, only the downside which they are in now.

If they schedule a home-and-home with South Carolina and lose there last night instead, would that be better?

[Billy Hoyle]

Scheduling a home and home with Dayton reeked mid-major at the time, now it's aging even worse.

There's no upside for MU, only the downside which they are in now.

The last time MU lost at Dayton the season ended up ok.

Playing at Dayton is a good decision and toughens us up going into conference play. UD arena is a tougher atmosphere than most BE venues and as we've already seen, Dayton is a legit squad and would be top four in the BE.

[Elonsmusk]

Ask every sports fan in the world to rate their team's performance and I can guarantee you that less than 0.0001% answer that question the same way you did.

There's a comedic level of irony in you saying that I'm putting my own feelings into my assessment.

I agree with this analysis.  And further, to expect the team to go 11-0 to meet expectations is a similarly unlikely probability of .0001%.

Buy hey, god damnit, Mike Broeker should have the power to wield over ESPN and get that ISU game on ESPN!!  What an amateur hour operation we have running our basketball scheduling.  (And open scrimmages without free tube steak available for the kids!!)

[Uncle Rico]

I do wonder if this discussion is different had they lost their 2nd game two weeks ago to someone in similar fashion versus last night.  Recency bias is a powerful thing in discussing sports, well, anything in general

[brewcity77]

Apologies for the mix-up then. It was suggested to me otherwise. Yet, my point still stands.

That I'm accountable for someone else's words?

Ask every sports fan in the world to rate their team's performance and I can guarantee you that less than 0.0001% answer that question the same way you did.

There's a comedic level of irony in you saying that I'm putting my own feelings into my assessment.

Really not comedic because you are the one trying to evaluate my personal evaluation. Last I checked, I'm not the one criticizing everyone else's grades because they don't conform with my own.

[Badgerhater]

B but AB on the traditional MU grading scale.

If the Dayton loss teaches some things on how MU needs to put away a solid opponent and win on the road against conference teams then it served its purpose.

Time to beat Butler and Xavier and enjoy Christmas.

[K1 Lover]

That I'm accountable for someone else's words?

Really not comedic because you are the one trying to evaluate my personal evaluation. Last I checked, I'm not the one criticizing everyone else's grades because they don't conform with my own.

No, the point that still stands is that you clearly appear to be so fixated and upset by the Dayton home-and-home that it outweighs anything else positive that's come out of the non-con.

And you're also wrong in that I'm criticizing anyone else's grades for not confirming with my own. You're not the only one said anything less the "AB" I gave. But you are the only one who's failed to answer the question in a way that is close to relevant. That is what I'm criticizing.

[brewcity77]

No, the point that still stands is that you clearly appear to be so fixated and upset by the Dayton home-and-home that it outweighs anything else positive that's come out of the non-con.

And you're also wrong in that I'm criticizing anyone else's grades for not confirming with my own. You're not the only one said anything less the "AB" I gave. But you are the only one who's failed to answer the question in a way that is close to relevant. That is what I'm criticizing.

I've answered it repeatedly. Record below expectations, metrics only meeting expectations, poor handing of television rights, poor setup for future non-con schedules.

And my feelings on Dayton are based on what the athletic department has said. After the Green Bay loss, they told me they were changing how they handled non-con scheduling and would no longer give home games up to non-HM teams. This was repeated multiple times since then.

If they're going to go against their own scheduling policies, they better get it right, and in this case, they didn't. I would say the same if it was SLU, Wichita State, Loyola Chicago, Boise State, St Mary's, or other mid-major.

[The Sultan]

A lot has changed since MU lost at Green Bay 13 years ago.

And they also won the BE and progressed to the E8 that season.

[Elonsmusk]

A lot has changed since MU lost at Green Bay 13 years ago.

Bingo.  To hold onto something one was told 13 years ago as it relates to college basketball scheduling is ridiculous.

[Billy Hoyle]

I've answered it repeatedly. Record below expectations, metrics only meeting expectations, poor handing of television rights, poor setup for future non-con schedules.

And my feelings on Dayton are based on what the athletic department has said. After the Green Bay loss, they told me they were changing how they handled non-con scheduling and would no longer give home games up to non-HM teams. This was repeated multiple times since then.

If they're going to go against their own scheduling policies, they better get it right, and in this case, they didn't. I would say the same if it was SLU, Wichita State, Loyola Chicago, Boise State, St Mary's, or other mid-major.

I'll take a home and home with a strong "mid major" over a low level "high major" team. The benefits of playing Dayton are greater than playing South Carolina, Va Tech, Mississippi State, or UCF. Would you oppose a home and home with Memphis because they're in a non-HM conference? Or any of the MVC teams that made the dance last year. Dayton is going to be a Q1 loss, I'm fine with that. We didn't lose to Illinois State or Davidson or, UWGB.

[brewcity77]

A lot has changed since MU lost at Green Bay 13 years ago.

And they also won the BE and progressed to the E8 that season.

Not that we won't give up home games to non-HM teams. That was repeated to me as recently as May of this year.

And nothing about my grade says this team can't still reach great heights. Contending for the Big East title and Elite 8 has been my expectation from the start and hasn't changed.

[MuMark]

Yeah I'd go B plus.....win last night and it's an A

I certainly would have taken 9-2 at the beginning of the year.

Ps I also had 1-2 in the poll for the last 3 but at the half I was feeling hopeful that I was going to be wrong..........unfortunately not.

[The Sultan]

Not that we won't give up home games to non-HM teams. That was repeated to me as recently as May of this year.

Well if that was just told to you in May, don't you think that there were some sort of circumstances that made the scheduling of Dayton the best of whatever options were also available?

Did the rumored discussions with NCST fall apart at the last minute? Did they want to give up a home buy game to get at least something decent on the books for next year? And maybe Shaka was fine with it due to his relationship with Grant and the fact that he used to work there.

It feels like you are being overly critical of a decision without understanding all the circumstances behind it.

And in the end, it is fine.

[K1 Lover]

I've answered it repeatedly. Record below expectations, metrics only meeting expectations, poor handing of television rights, poor setup for future non-con schedules.

And my feelings on Dayton are based on what the athletic department has said. After the Green Bay loss, they told me they were changing how they handled non-con scheduling and would no longer give home games up to non-HM teams. This was repeated multiple times since then.

If they're going to go against their own scheduling policies, they better get it right, and in this case, they didn't. I would say the same if it was SLU, Wichita State, Loyola Chicago, Boise State, St Mary's, or other mid-major.

Anything beyond player/coach performance is superfluous to me. I know you're a numbers guy, but basketball is qualitative too. This sport would be played by robots if it weren't. So although we can agree losing to Dayton is objectively bad for Marquette, that doesn't mean a loss like this doesn't have the opportunity to pay dividends down the road and result in a net positive later. Perhaps this is where we differ, but like it was mentioned previously, I'd gladly take a loss to tournament-level teams in a hostile environment over a win against bottom-feeding high-majors any day.

I don't know who "they" are, but I can only assume you're referring to MUBB staff. All I can say is I'm sorry they've wronged you. I get why you'd be upset, and though I don't completely agree with your logic, I understand why that frustration would influence your opinions on the non-con. I simply haven't had the same experience, so naturally my only concern is the actual playing of basketball.

All that said, you may not be Brewtown Andy (I was confused by the fact your names both start with A), but I'll still continue to enjoy your opinions and analyses. I just have to agree to disagree with you on this one. Hopefully the scheduling improves over time, and along with it, your opinion on MUBB.

[🏀]

If they schedule a home-and-home with South Carolina and lose there last night instead, would that be better?

No, losing is not acceptable.

But, yes.

[Newsdreams]

The ISU game could've been optioned to ESPNEWS, ESPNU, or FS2. That not happening is on par with the Georgia TV situation, where someone else had the rights, but Marquette has a vested interest and voice in how it's handled.

And exact same thoughts on SLU or VCU. It's the same reason we don't play Green Bay or Milwaukee anymore. You wanna be a big boy, act like it. Gonzaga is the only non-P4 program we should give a home and home to.

TV rights don't work the way you think they work.

[Billy Hoyle]

No, losing is not acceptable.

But, yes.

Losing to currently ranked #98 in the NET South Carolina would have been better? What about currently ranked #110 NC State who we were rumored to be negotiating with? That would have been more acceptable to you than #23 Dayton, currently ranked higher than all but two Big East teams? Let's buy out Dayton for next year and replace them with #168 Minnesota or #196 Boston College on the schedule for next year, they are in a high major conference after all.

If I didn't know better I'd think I was on the Badger board after they lost to us.