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wadesworld

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 27, 2024, 08:28:10 AMNova will be fine assuming they move on after this season. UNC made a bad inside the family hire in Doherty and rectified things quickly with the Roy Williams hire. They have the money and resources to stay elite. Sometimes staying within the family doesn't work out when the talent pool is so shallow; look at Syracuse with Autry and Butler hiring Jordan. More proof of the saying that you don't want to be the man who follows the man.

What Villanova grad is coaching at a blue blood and making Final Fours?

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: wadesworld on November 27, 2024, 10:30:06 AMWhat Villanova grad is coaching at a blue blood and making Final Fours?

I used Roy as an example of a blue blood moving on quickly from a hire that backfired and hurt the program (Doherty was a spectacular failure at UNC), regardless of whether UNC stayed "within the family." It doesn't have to be a grad, Roy just happened to be in the example I used. Shaka and Crean at MU are similar examples of programs recognizing the trajectory they were on and reversing that direction by cutting bait.
"You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked."

MU82

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2024, 08:20:07 AMWe'll hear Josh Schertz at St Louis (Indiana St last year), Ryan Odom at VCU, and Ben McCollum seems like he could rise fast.

Personally, what impressed me about Smart at VCU was not the Final Four, it was keeping VCU at that kind of level for years after. I'm skeptical of hires that build their rep off a mid-major tourney and 1-3 wins in March. I prefer coaches that elevate a program to levels their program haven't previously been at and sustain it. Self, Beard, Sampson, Few all did that.

If not for his tragic death, I'd have Amir Abdur-Rahim high on that list. Instead the guy I think should be at the fore is Bob Richey at Furman. Only one NCAA appearance (and win) but he took what Niko Medved did and brought them higher. And he's kept them there for years. He deserves that next step up.

This is a really good post, brew, and I appreciate you mentioning some names on the rise.

Agree 100% about Shaka keeping VCU as a relevant A-10 program even after the FF run. That matters.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

Coleman

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 27, 2024, 08:28:10 AMNova will be fine assuming they move on after this season. UNC made a bad inside the family hire in Doherty and rectified things quickly with the Roy Williams hire. They have the money and resources to stay elite. Sometimes staying within the family doesn't work out when the talent pool is so shallow; look at Syracuse with Autry and Butler hiring Jordan. More proof of the saying that you don't want to be the man who follows the man.

Nova is not UNC.


And I am not saying Nova will never return to respectability. They will.

What I am saying is they had a chance to climb into the very upper echelon of college basketball. I think that window has now closed.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Quote from: Coleman on November 27, 2024, 12:11:44 PMNova is not UNC.


And I am not saying Nova will never return to respectability. They will.

What I am saying is they had a chance to climb into the very upper echelon of college basketball. I think that window has now closed.

Who do you think that job would have attracted?
Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

Scoop Snoop

Quote from: Coleman on November 27, 2024, 12:11:44 PMNova is not UNC.


And I am not saying Nova will never return to respectability. They will.

What I am saying is they had a chance to climb into the very upper echelon of college basketball. I think that window has now closed.

So Nova is not a blueblood. But NC's 2017 natty was sandwiched between Nova's 2016 and 2018 nattys. I really do not get the "window is closed". It will reopen just as soon as Neptune is handed a couple of cardboard boxes.   
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

PGsHeroes32

Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Uncle Rico

Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

Galway Eagle

Quote from: Coleman on November 27, 2024, 12:11:44 PMNova is not UNC.


And I am not saying Nova will never return to respectability. They will.

What I am saying is they had a chance to climb into the very upper echelon of college basketball. I think that window has now closed.

I was curious if Nova could've said they were on par with UNC during Wrights tenure (which was objectively unreal) and I was shocked to realize just how far behind UNC they were during that time.

Nova Under Wright:

Nova goes 520–197

16 NCAA tournaments. 3 S16, Elite 8, 2 FF, 2 Championships

seeds: four 1 seeds, four 2 seeds, one 3 seed, two 5 seeds and a 6 seed.


Meanwhile UNC During Wright's era:

541–209


18 NCAA tournaments, 3 championships, 2 runner up, 1 FF, 3 E8, 2 S16

Seeds: eight 1 seeds, two 2 seeds, one 3 seed, one 4 seed, two 6 seeds.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Scoop Snoop

Thanks Galway. Fair enough comparing the 2 during Wright's tenure, but Jay's starting scenario was different. I went with relatively recent history and admittedly cherry picked.

I still simply do not get the "the window is now closed" bit. Really disagree. On the contrary, Neptune's tenure provides the next Nova coach with a clean slate, not living in Jay's shadow from day 1. There would be a honeymoon period. After that? Better have Nova looking damn good.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 27, 2024, 01:51:32 PMThanks Galway. Fair enough comparing the 2 during Wright's tenure, but Jay's starting scenario was different. I went with relatively recent history and admittedly cherry picked.

I still simply do not get the "the window is now closed" bit. Really disagree. On the contrary, Neptune's tenure provides the next Nova coach with a clean slate, not living in Jay's shadow from day 1. There would be a honeymoon period. After that? Better have Nova looking damn good.

In addition, with House and revenue sharing the Big East schools are going to be at an advantage over the Power 4 who have to share with 85-105 football players. Nova will be just fine. They won't have to settle for a mid-major coach (e.g. Medved, Odom) if they want to aid higher, they'll be able to pull someone to the Power 4 as we did with Shaka.
"You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked."

Scoop Snoop


At the age of 58, this may be Anthony Grant's big chance to get a HC position in a major conference before high majors pass him over due to his age. This year's team may be his ticket. I could see him at Nova and bringing most of his team with him.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

tower912

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Uncle Rico

Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

IrwinFletcher

Ben McCollum is a rising star.  He will not be at Drake very long.  I am wondering if someone will take a chance next spring and hire him after only 1 year at D1 level.

brewcity77

Quote from: MU82 on November 27, 2024, 11:49:17 AMThis is a really good post, brew, and I appreciate you mentioning some names on the rise.

Agree 100% about Shaka keeping VCU as a relevant A-10 program even after the FF run. That matters.

Another name I should mention. If I were an AD, I would strongly consider Brian Wardle. He built Green Bay into the best program in the Horizon and owns their top two kenpom finishes. He has Bradley top-100 in kenpom for the fourth straight year, something that has never happened there. Two MVC tourney titles and neither were with his best teams. They've been top-3 in both offense and defense in league play each of the past two years.

I know he divides opinions here, and I don't think he's the right fit for every program, but at a place that has the resources & patience for him to build a program, maybe like Iowa, K-State, or Oklahoma, he could be a really good high floor hire.
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Scoop Snoop

Quote from: tower912 on November 28, 2024, 08:49:46 AMHe is a Dayton alum.
but if

Yeah, he may be like Boeheim at Syracuse but if he wants to move to a major conference after keeping Dayton in the spotlight for years....?

In his late 50's, he may be saying to himself "don't mess with happy" and actually mean it.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: Scoop Snoop on November 28, 2024, 08:41:15 AMAt the age of 58, this may be Anthony Grant's big chance to get a HC position in a major conference before high majors pass him over due to his age. This year's team may be his ticket. I could see him at Nova and bringing most of his team with him.

He has been at a high major when he left VCU for Alabama and that didn't work out for him. Nova not having FBS football could appeal to him to make that move but he could also go the Mark Few route and finish his career at a place where he's comfortable and can do things on his terms.
"You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked."

MUBurrow


Biggie Clausen

#44
I think both Virginia and especially Villanova would go for a splashier hire than this, but what about Matt Langel at Colgate?  He's a 5x coach of the year in his league and has guided his team to five NCAA tournaments.  He's also only 47.  There's no telling if he can recruit at a high level, but he can clearly coach.  If Marquette had hired a guy like that after Buzz left, I would've been open to it.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

Quote from: Biggie Clausen on November 28, 2024, 11:43:28 AMI think both Virginia and especially Villanova would go for a splashier hire than this, but what about Matt Langel at Colgate?  He's a 5x coach of the year in his league and has guided his team to five NCAA tournaments.  He's also only 47.  There's no telling if he can recruit at a high level, but he can clearly coach.  If Marquette had hired a guy like that after Buzz left, I would've been open to it.

I think his career already reached its crest. They should act like the high major they are and aim higher.
Matthew 25:40: Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

Zog from Margo

Quote from: IrwinFletcher on November 28, 2024, 08:55:18 AMBen McCollum is a rising star.  He will not be at Drake very long.  I am wondering if someone will take a chance next spring and hire him after only 1 year at D1 level.

Depends upon how many "it's all about talent" ADs will bypass coaching for a Duke assistant.

wadesworld


oldwarrior81

isn't Nova paying Neptune (Inept-une) over $4 million a year?
They seem willing to pay for the "wright" coach.

They also just brought in a Nova grad as new AD that had been at Oregon.

Would they be willing to give someone like Archie Miller (Rhode Island) another chance at the top?  Although he hasn't been very impressive since his run at Dayton.  The Indiana/covid stint didn't end well.

Tyler COLEk

Villanova will be shooting higher than Archie Miller.

How about the man himself? Bring Jay Wright out of retirement. It'll take some finangling to fire his hand-picked successor, but let's make it happen.

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