Scrimmage

[brewcity77]

its hurt their ability to make the NCAA tournament

This is silly and patently false.

[tower912]

Shaka has thoughts.  Thank you, MuMark for posting his presser.



Owens out with a groin.
Tre out with a shoulder after a collision with Stevie.
Still no ETA for Sean.

[Nukem2]

Wow. Ya think?

Obviously I was being sarcastic.

[brewcity77]

Purdue had streaming for their tour last summer, a public fan day event, a charity scrimmage, and a televised exhibition against Arkansas. That competitive disadvantage must be why they lost to UConn in the championship game.

Edit: UConn uploaded all of their foreign trip games for fans immediately after the conclusion, that must be why they lost to Seton Hall.

[Shooter McGavin]

Thanks WRFF for the update.  Any idea who the secret scrimmages are against?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Thanks WRFF for the update.  Any idea who the secret scrimmages are against?

IIRC, Missouri and Oklahoma.

[Shooter McGavin]

IIRC, Missouri and Oklahoma.

Thank you! 

[GOO]

Brew, those of us who take/took young kids to ball games and scrimmages understand your pain. Two hours is an eternity for a  bored and hungry young one. I imagine for some adult scoopers as well.

[Skatastrophy]

I eat before I go places. I don't trust anyone to feed me. That goes for Marquette, weddings, work events, etc. People are terrible at ordering enough food if they even bother thinking about food in the first place. It's saved me a lot of grief in my life.

[Jay Bee]

Purdue had streaming for their tour last summer, a public fan day event, a charity scrimmage, and a televised exhibition against Arkansas. That competitive disadvantage must be why they lost to UConn in the championship game.

Edit: UConn uploaded all of their foreign trip games for fans immediately after the conclusion, that must be why they lost to Seton Hall.

The exhibition being televised required special approval, yes? I think it was a charity event — not usual at all. I forgive MU for this one.

That said, no sh1tty hot dogs being sold for $6 a pop today is inexcusable and lost countless fans who aren't yet able to read.

[MUfan12]

Brew, those of us who take/took young kids to ball games and scrimmages understand your pain. Two hours is an eternity for a  bored and hungry young one. I imagine for some adult scoopers as well.

Brought my 3 year old with a bag of snacks in tow and we made it until lunch at 1. No sweat.

Gotta know better than to count on any sort of decent concession options at these things.

[The Sultan]

I think they should have had concessions available.

[We R Final Four]

Brought my 3 year old with a bag of snacks in tow and we made it until lunch at 1. No sweat.

Gotta know better than to count on any sort of decent concession options at these things.

Yeah.....alot of kids stuck around for the poster signings after the scrimmage.

[Richie]

I eat before I go places. I don't trust anyone to feed me. That goes for Marquette, weddings, work events, etc. People are terrible at ordering enough food if they even bother thinking about food in the first place. It's saved me a lot of grief in my life.

Exactly! I had 4 kids all 2 years apart...I fed them before we left in case there was no food available where we were going. A ridiculous discussion point in a thread about the game.

[wisblue]

Thanks WRFF for the update.  Any idea who the secret scrimmages are against?

I thought one was TSUFCS.

The Top Secret University For the Children of Spies.

[duanewade]

A take from the most intelligent, perceptive, forward thinking poster on the board...

The Bad:
Very disappointed in the coaching staff today.  This is not the day for any new/newer player to be timid as there is no game on the line that could hinder our tournament resume.  Therefore I was expecting all the players would be aggressive offensively today to show us what they could do. Unfortunately, Caedin Hamilton passed up almost all his opportunities to create a shot for himself in the post and was always looking to pass.  It got to the point that the defenders were cheating off him and instead trying to deflect his passes as they knew he wouldn't try to go around them or try to shoot with some kind of post move.  This was the most disappointing development for me today as it appears the staff is telling Caedin to have a Oso sophomore year role where Oso played about 18 minutes a game and only scored when he was fed dunks off of penetration.  Caedin did show some good defensive rebounding chops, but I'd be surprised if he averages more than 4 points a game this year.

Al Amadou also looked afraid to shoot and passed up many good looks, however late in the 2nd half he had a little run and showed some offense.  Once again he is very thin but springy... he could have used last year to red shirt to save a year of eligibility to allow his body to mature and hit his 20's with three to four years of eligibility left.  Once again I don't think he'll have an impact this year but think he could still develop into a good player next year and beyond.

Kam is a very good player but he can't physically dominate a game even though he's a our main offensive cog.  He's not a dynamic enough athlete who can take over a game by blowing by his opponents or finishing with dunks at the rim.  Hence why some said he struggled and looked frustrated in the first half as I think he's more comfortable and effective in a support role than a lead role.  Regardless he did a lot of real good things in the 2nd half and is still definitely an impact player.

Unlike some of the timid offensive players mentioned above, Joplin played with no conscious and will launch regardless if it's a good shot or not.  He was also turnover prone at times... so Joplin is what he is, which is a mixed bag of good and bad but he did play pretty well at times today. 

We know Ben Gold as he has a fairly large body of work.  He's a nice player but it doesn't appear he has another level of play and will continue to just be a sporadic 3 point shooter and marginal rebounder.  So sadly as a team we will have no back to the basket post play threat this year which really could be our downfall and lead to a disappointing season. 

The Good:
Stevie was good.  He gets every ounce out of his God given talent, even though it's less than some other players on our team. 

Chase Ross is even more built this year and looks like a borderline bruiser.  However, although he does some nice things I don't see him taking a huge jump this year either as far as scoring or anything else.  He'll be good for a big dunk once a game, good defense and some three point shots.  A very nice player but not a star either... I admit that he could surprise me to the upside as he does have a lot of physical talent.   

Zaide Lowery is a very smooth and capable athlete.  I think he takes a step up from last year and has some real nice nights where he scores 20+ points and is the stud of the game.  However, I don't know why the coaching staff hasn't converted his set shot to a jump shot yet... the later is when you jump and release your shot at the top of your jump instead of shooting and jumping at the same time.  At this level every player should have a jump shot, as it's harder to block or alter. 

Royce Parham will have to play more than the coaches want to play a freshman because he's too valuable to keep off the floor.  I think he was the leading scorer in the first half and scored a number of different ways that included hitting open threes, to creating his own shot, to finishing in transition for a 3 point play.  He's also a good rebounder... just an overall high IQ player who gets it and has the ability to do a lot of positive things to help us win. 

Josh Clark... early in the scrimmage he was pulled at the first sub each time and the coaches always called him over to point out something they didn't like what he was doing.  Then as the game went on he probably ended up being the overall leading scorer or close to it.  Granted many were lob dunks but someone with his length and athletic ability makes the game easier for everyone else.  He has a freshman body but it's still a pretty sturdy frame and I could see him being scary good by his junior year with 20 to 30lbs of muscle, game experience, savvy and developing a couple go to post moves.  He might be too valuable to even red shirt as we could use his talent in the rotation this year in my opinion.  I'd prefer to redshirt Al Amadou this year, and play Josh Clark in the rotation now instead.  No point in redshirting Josh too if he might be an NBA prospect in 3 to 4 years. 

Damarius Owens partook in the warm up drills and looked very athletic and physically impressive.  He will be an impact player for us this year as he's essentially Chase Ross with an extra 3 to 4 inches of height and more offensive explosion. 

Tre Norman didn't play.  I love Tre's high school tape and hope he can have a big jump this year as last year he didn't look like he had the quickness or explosion to be an impact player at this level.  I admit and hope I'm wrong as he still did some good things and is a very tough and smart player.  Having Kolek as a mentor gave him a great blue print on how to be a great point guard even if you aren't the most athletic player at this level. 

Conclusion:
Once again, lots of collective talent/athletic ability/length that can overwhelm opponents in transition when we're getting a lot of team deflections.  However, I'm very concerned we won't have any post offense in slower tempo games were we have to rely on half court sets to score.  Also very concerned we won't be a very good rebounding team which seems to be a regular trademark for Shaka Marquette teams thus far.

Ceiling: Sweet 16, maybe even Elite 8
Floor: NIT 

[avid1010]

I didn't see what Shaka and W R saw in Hamilton, but I'm clearly on the wrong side of that argument which is good because they will need him.

Parham looks like the type of big Nova would have during their Jay Wright days...he's going to be really good in time...and should get minutes this year.

My 7 year old didn't ask or get any food, and it never crossed my mind to care.

[Herman Cain]

A take from the most intelligent, perceptive, forward thinking poster on the board...

The Bad:
Very disappointed in the coaching staff today.  This is not the day for any new/newer player to be timid as there is no game on the line that could hinder our tournament resume.  Therefore I was expecting all the players would be aggressive offensively today to show us what they could do. Unfortunately, Caedin Hamilton passed up almost all his opportunities to create a shot for himself in the post and was always looking to pass.  It got to the point that the defenders were cheating off him and instead trying to deflect his passes as they knew he wouldn't try to go around them or try to shoot with some kind of post move.  This was the most disappointing development for me today as it appears the staff is telling Caedin to have a Oso sophomore year role where Oso played about 18 minutes a game and only scored when he was fed dunks off of penetration.  Caedin did show some good defensive rebounding chops, but I'd be surprised if he averages more than 4 points a game this year.

Al Amadou also looked afraid to shoot and passed up many good looks, however late in the 2nd half he had a little run and showed some offense.  Once again he is very thin but springy... he could have used last year to red shirt to save a year of eligibility to allow his body to mature and hit his 20's with three to four years of eligibility left.  Once again I don't think he'll have an impact this year but think he could still develop into a good player next year and beyond.

Kam is a very good player but he can't physically dominate a game even though he's a our main offensive cog.  He's not a dynamic enough athlete who can take over a game by blowing by his opponents or finishing with dunks at the rim.  Hence why some said he struggled and looked frustrated in the first half as I think he's more comfortable and effective in a support role than a lead role.  Regardless he did a lot of real good things in the 2nd half and is still definitely an impact player.

Unlike some of the timid offensive players mentioned above, Joplin played with no conscious and will launch regardless if it's a good shot or not.  He was also turnover prone at times... so Joplin is what he is, which is a mixed bag of good and bad but he did play pretty well at times today. 

We know Ben Gold as he has a fairly large body of work.  He's a nice player but it doesn't appear he has another level of play and will continue to just be a sporadic 3 point shooter and marginal rebounder.  So sadly as a team we will have no back to the basket post play threat this year which really could be our downfall and lead to a disappointing season. 

The Good:
Stevie was good.  He gets every ounce out of his God given talent, even though it's less than some other players on our team. 

Chase Ross is even more built this year and looks like a borderline bruiser.  However, although he does some nice things I don't see him taking a huge jump this year either as far as scoring or anything else.  He'll be good for a big dunk once a game, good defense and some three point shots.  A very nice player but not a star either... I admit that he could surprise me to the upside as he does have a lot of physical talent.   

Zaide Lowery is a very smooth and capable athlete.  I think he takes a step up from last year and has some real nice nights were he scores 20+ points and is the stud of the game.  However, I don't know why the coaching staff hasn't converted his set shot to a jump shot yet... the later is when you jump and release your shot at the top of your jump instead of shooting and jumping at the same time.  At this level every player should have a jump shot, as it's harder to block or alter. 

Royce Parham will have to play more than the coaches want to play a freshman because he's too valuable to keep off the floor.  I think he was the leading scorer in the first half and scored a number of different ways that included hitting open threes, to creating his own shot, to finishing in transition for a 3 point play.  He's also a good rebounder... just an overall high IQ player who gets it and has the ability to do a lot of positive things to help us win. 

Josh Clark... early in the scrimmage he was pulled at the first sub each time and the coaches always pulled him over to point out something they didn't like what he was doing.  Then as the game went on he probably ended up being the overall leading scorer or close to it.  Granted many where lob dunks but someone with his length and athletic ability makes the game easier for everyone else.  He has a freshman body but it's still a pretty sturdy frame and I could see him being scary good by his junior year with 20 to 30lbs of muscle, game experience, savvy and developing a couple go to post moves.  He might be too valuable to even red shirt as we could use his talent in the rotation this year in my opinion.  I'd prefer to redshirt Al Amadou this year, and play Josh Clark in the rotation now instead.  No point in redshirting Josh too if he might be an NBA prospect in 3 to 4 years. 

Damarius Owens partook in the warm up drills and looked very athletic and physically impressive.  He will be an impact player for us this year as he's essentially he's Chase Ross with an extra 3 to 4 inches of height and more offensive explosion. 

Tre Norman didn't play.  I love Tre's high school tape and hope he can have a big jump this year as last year he didn't look like he had the quickness or explosion to be an impact player at this level.  I admit and hope I'm wrong as he still did some good things and is a very tough and smart player.  Having Kolek as a mentor gave him a great blue print on how to be a great point guard even if you aren't the most athletic player at this level. 

Conclusion:
Once again, lots of collective talent/athletic ability/length that can overwhelm opponents in transition when we're getting a lot of team deflections.  However, I'm very concerned we won't have any post offense in slower tempo games were we have to rely on half court sets to score.  Also very concerned we won't be a very good rebounding team which seems to be a regular trademark for Shaka Marquette teams thus far.

Ceiling: Sweet 16, maybe even Elite 8
Floor: NIT

Excellent Report. Thanks for putting the time into all the details.

[We R Final Four]

A take from the most intelligent, perceptive, forward thinking poster on the board...

The Bad:
Very disappointed in the coaching staff today.  This is not the day for any new/newer player to be timid as there is no game on the line that could hinder our tournament resume.  Therefore I was expecting all the players would be aggressive offensively today to show us what they could do. Unfortunately, Caedin Hamilton passed up almost all his opportunities to create a shot for himself in the post and was always looking to pass.  It got to the point that the defenders were cheating off him and instead trying to deflect his passes as they knew he wouldn't try to go around them or try to shoot with some kind of post move.  This was the most disappointing development for me today as it appears the staff is telling Caedin to have a Oso sophomore year role where Oso played about 18 minutes a game and only scored when he was fed dunks off of penetration.  Caedin did show some good defensive rebounding chops, but I'd be surprised if he averages more than 4 points a game this year.

Al Amadou also looked afraid to shoot and passed up many good looks, however late in the 2nd half he had a little run and showed some offense.  Once again he is very thin but springy... he could have used last year to red shirt to save a year of eligibility to allow his body to mature and hit his 20's with three to four years of eligibility left.  Once again I don't think he'll have an impact this year but think he could still develop into a good player next year and beyond.

Kam is a very good player but he can't physically dominate a game even though he's a our main offensive cog.  He's not a dynamic enough athlete who can take over a game by blowing by his opponents or finishing with dunks at the rim.  Hence why some said he struggled and looked frustrated in the first half as I think he's more comfortable and effective in a support role than a lead role.  Regardless he did a lot of real good things in the 2nd half and is still definitely an impact player.

Unlike some of the timid offensive players mentioned above, Joplin played with no conscious and will launch regardless if it's a good shot or not.  He was also turnover prone at times... so Joplin is what he is, which is a mixed bag of good and bad but he did play pretty well at times today. 

We know Ben Gold as he has a fairly large body of work.  He's a nice player but it doesn't appear he has another level of play and will continue to just be a sporadic 3 point shooter and marginal rebounder.  So sadly as a team we will have no back to the basket post play threat this year which really could be our downfall and lead to a disappointing season. 

The Good:
Stevie was good.  He gets every ounce out of his God given talent, even though it's less than some other players on our team. 

Chase Ross is even more built this year and looks like a borderline bruiser.  However, although he does some nice things I don't see him taking a huge jump this year either as far as scoring or anything else.  He'll be good for a big dunk once a game, good defense and some three point shots.  A very nice player but not a star either... I admit that he could surprise me to the upside as he does have a lot of physical talent.   

Zaide Lowery is a very smooth and capable athlete.  I think he takes a step up from last year and has some real nice nights were he scores 20+ points and is the stud of the game.  However, I don't know why the coaching staff hasn't converted his set shot to a jump shot yet... the later is when you jump and release your shot at the top of your jump instead of shooting and jumping at the same time.  At this level every player should have a jump shot, as it's harder to block or alter. 

Royce Parham will have to play more than the coaches want to play a freshman because he's too valuable to keep off the floor.  I think he was the leading scorer in the first half and scored a number of different ways that included hitting open threes, to creating his own shot, to finishing in transition for a 3 point play.  He's also a good rebounder... just an overall high IQ player who gets it and has the ability to do a lot of positive things to help us win. 

Josh Clark... early in the scrimmage he was pulled at the first sub each time and the coaches always pulled him over to point out something they didn't like what he was doing.  Then as the game went on he probably ended up being the overall leading scorer or close to it.  Granted many where lob dunks but someone with his length and athletic ability makes the game easier for everyone else.  He has a freshman body but it's still a pretty sturdy frame and I could see him being scary good by his junior year with 20 to 30lbs of muscle, game experience, savvy and developing a couple go to post moves.  He might be too valuable to even red shirt as we could use his talent in the rotation this year in my opinion.  I'd prefer to redshirt Al Amadou this year, and play Josh Clark in the rotation now instead.  No point in redshirting Josh too if he might be an NBA prospect in 3 to 4 years. 

Damarius Owens partook in the warm up drills and looked very athletic and physically impressive.  He will be an impact player for us this year as he's essentially he's Chase Ross with an extra 3 to 4 inches of height and more offensive explosion. 

Tre Norman didn't play.  I love Tre's high school tape and hope he can have a big jump this year as last year he didn't look like he had the quickness or explosion to be an impact player at this level.  I admit and hope I'm wrong as he still did some good things and is a very tough and smart player.  Having Kolek as a mentor gave him a great blue print on how to be a great point guard even if you aren't the most athletic player at this level. 

Conclusion:
Once again, lots of collective talent/athletic ability/length that can overwhelm opponents in transition when we're getting a lot of team deflections.  However, I'm very concerned we won't have any post offense in slower tempo games were we have to rely on half court sets to score.  Also very concerned we won't be a very good rebounding team which seems to be a regular trademark for Shaka Marquette teams thus far.

Ceiling: Sweet 16, maybe even Elite 8
Floor: NIT

Thank you for providing the definition of a jump shot.

[Dickthedribbler]

For my money, Josh Clark was the player of the day. I saw the August scrimmage and he has gotten noticeably better since then. I think this young man has a huge upside. Just needs to put on some weight ; get stronger ;and just play.

And I'm not talking about a 7'1 guy dunking over an Al Amadou in a scrimmage. I'm talking about his footwork and quickness to put himself in a position to dunk the ball. I'm also talking about his ability to receive entry passes around his head and go right to the rim. And pretty good hands----few if any fumbles.

The kid ( and whichever coach he's working with) are clearly putting in a lot of time., IMO.

[BCHoopster]

Rebounding should be better than last as the team will just be bigger, I can see 2 bigs playing more together with Hamilton Gold and Parham.  Also Owens is very athletic, then Ross and Stevie are dogs, Jop can replaced if they have to get bigger or Jop  can play the wing more.  Rotation will be decided by how there opponents line up, more concerned in the last 5 minutes wh can create there own shot, that's were Sean Jones would be a nice addition

[DoctorV]

I didn't see what Shaka and W R saw in Hamilton, but I'm clearly on the wrong side of that argument which is good because they will need him.

Parham looks like the type of big Nova would have during their Jay Wright days...he's going to be really good in time...and should get minutes this year.

My 7 year old didn't ask or get any food, and it never crossed my mind to care.

I wasn't at the scrimmage but oftentimes on highlights of these things I key in on the defensive side of the ball more than the offensive, and the most glaring defensive crutch seemed to be Caedin getting beat to the basket for an easy dunk, usually at the hands of Josh.

Someone said he hedges well, comparisons have been made to Oso with regards to ball handling and vision abilities, but the clips I saw made him look not very fleet of foot on the defensive end.

This will have to improve greatly for both Hamilton and Gold. The Big East is loaded with quality bigs and offenses that can beat you going to the hoop, and if Marquettes defense is a turnstile in that capacity it will drive Shaka crazy and lead to a long season.

If the bigs cannot recover to defend the paint and prevent dunks and layups they will need to stay at home more and allow of good perimeter defenders to do their thing the best they can, or just give up more open jumpers on those screen and rolls.

In the same token, I'd like to see Ben and Caedin being the guys rolling to the hoop and finishing those dunks/layups instead of Josh at this point. I worry that we see too much perimeter play from Mr Gold and that he hasn't taken the step needed to at least partially fit into that Oso mold of diving to the lane for an easy finish off a good pass.

The 5 positions is easily my biggest concern of the season, running away from the 1 position.
I love what I'm seeing from Kam and there are enough secondary and tertiary ball handlers and good passers to make the offense flow, albeit nowhere as smooth as the TyKo show

[tower912]

Thank you to all who attended and posted their thoughts.

[Dickthedribbler]

Not having concessions was a big miss. Lots of families here, we weren't the only ones to meant early. In the past we always got hot dogs and chips, nothing fancy but with 1,000+ there they left a lot of cash on the table. We left early because I didn't want to spend 2 hours listening to "I'm hungry" on repeat.

Line of the day from my 6-year-old daughter: "I'm pissed, I'm hungry, I didn't get to see Iggy. This was bad."

Incomprehensible decision to hold a scrimmage from 11-1 in the afternoon and not open the concession stands that have typically been open for these events in the past.

Sorry that your 6 year old didn't have the opportunity to purchase a nitrate-laden tube steak, washed down with a 16 Oz cup of sugar water, for breakfast.

I am concerned about what this says about our program and the development of the program going forward. He!!, when I first started going to Marquette games at the old Milwaukee Arena, you could smoke cigarettes in your seat DURING the game and there were cigarette machines in all the concourses.No longer. Now no candy bars. Looks like Marquette basketball continues to erode, inch by inch.

[GoldenWarrior11]

When you probably have 300 kids in the building and hold it at lunchtime, that's an inexplicable miss. If Marquette wants to build the next generation of fans, they should plan these events with them in mind. On the way out, three other families leaving early were talking about the lack of food.

It's also been standard in the past. We planned our day around this event and expecting Marquette to provide food we could purchase like they always have in the past isn't a big ask. Instead, as we left my 6-year-old said "I'm pissed, I'm hungry, I didn't get to see Iggy. This was bad." That's some great fan outreach.

Sounds like the sauerkraut was delish.