2024-25 NBA Thread

[MuggsyB]

That Bleacher Report top 100 NBA players all-time was amusing.  Moses Malone #21,  Elgin Baylor #26, Rick Barry #41.  These guys are well before my time but in the case of Moses and Elgin this is totally inexcusable when you look at the some of the guys they ranked ahead of them.  Moses won 3 MVP'S. 

[The Sultan]

That Bleacher Report top 100 NBA players all-time was amusing.  Moses Malone #21,  Elgin Baylor #26, Rick Barry #41.  These guys are well before my time but in the case of Moses and Elgin this is totally inexcusable when you look at the some of the guys they ranked ahead of them.  Moses won 3 MVP'S. 

I mean, there may be an argument for each of them to move a spot or two, but Moses and Elgin seem properly placed.  Barry seems a little low but there are a lot of similar players around him so its hard to mount a huge argument there.

[MuggsyB]

I mean, there may be an argument for each of them to move a spot or two, but Moses and Elgin seem properly placed.  Barry seems a little low but there are a lot of similar players around him so its hard to mount a huge argument there.

I completely disagree. Was Dr J the best player on the "83 team or was Moses?  David Robinson?  Nowitzki?  Garnett?  Jerry West was #14 and stated many times Baylor was better than him.  Barry was the best player on a championship team.  He has the highest scoring average for the Finals in history.  Look at some of the guys ahead of him.  Isaiah Thomas at #27 is also absurd. 

[Uncle Rico]

I completely disagree. Was Dr J the best player on the "83 team or was Moses?  David Robinson?  Nowitzki?  Garnett?  Jerry West was #14 and stated many times Baylor was better than him.  Barry was the best player on a championship team.  He has the highest scoring average for the Finals in history.  Look at some of the guys ahead of him.  Isaiah Thomas at #27 is also absurd. 

Not having Bob Cousy first is absurd

[The Sultan]

I completely disagree. Was Dr J the best player on the "83 team or was Moses?  David Robinson?  Nowitzki?  Garnett?  Jerry West was #14 and stated many times Baylor was better than him.  Barry was the best player on a championship team.  He has the highest scoring average for the Finals in history.  Look at some of the guys ahead of him.  Isaiah Thomas at #27 is also absurd. 

Dr. J is one spot ahead of him so its not much of a difference. And, while I agree that Robinson is quesitonable, Dirk and Garnett were better basketball players. (Both had better career win shares per 48 for instance.) Furthermore the Dirk / Garnett era was way deeper talent wise than the Malone era. I could actually make the argument that Garnett was one of the more underrated playes of his era, largely because he was toiling away on bad Wolves teams.

Jerry West was being complementary of a teammate.

Barry spent much of his peak years in the ABA, had a couple great seasons upon his return, but dropped off rather quickly to where he was a sixth man at the end of his career.

[MuggsyB]

Dr. J is one spot ahead of him so its not much of a difference. And, while I agree that Robinson is quesitonable, Dirk and Garnett were better basketball players. (Both had better career win shares per 48 for instance.) Furthermore the Dirk / Garnett era was way deeper talent wise than the Malone era. I could actually make the argument that Garnett was one of the more underrated playes of his era, largely because he was toiling away on bad Wolves teams.

Jerry West was being complementary of a teammate.

Barry spent much of his peak years in the ABA, had a couple great seasons upon his return, but dropped off rather quickly to where he was a sixth man at the end of his career.

Wade should be ahead of Garnett, Robinson, and Nowitzki.  Moses won 3 MVP's.  Barry shoukd be behind Drexler, Iverson, and others?  Isaiah was the best player on two title teams.  WTF?  And Baylor at #26?  Please.  The guy is the reason we saw Dr.J's, Dominique's, and Jordan type players. 

[MuggsyB]

Nm

[MuggsyB]

Nm

[JWags85]

Dirk and Garnett were better basketball players. (Both had better career win shares per 48 for instance.) Furthermore the Dirk / Garnett era was way deeper talent wise than the Malone era. I could actually make the argument that Garnett was one of the more underrated playes of his era, largely because he was toiling away on bad Wolves teams.

Garnett's team deficiencies probably prevented him from having multiple MVPs.  He stacks up pretty damn close to Duncan for that stretch in the mid 2000s.  But one was on a championship level team with multiple HOFs and the other was playing with Terrell Brandon and Anthony Peeler (and those were the pretty good Wolves teams, not the disasters shortly before he went to Boston)

[The Sultan]

Wade should be ahead of Garnett, Robinson, and Nowitzki.  Moses won 3 MVP's.  Barry shoukd be behind Drexler, Iverson, and others?  Isaiah was the best player on two title teams.  WTF?  And Baylor at #26?  Please.  The guy is the reason we saw Dr.J's, Dominique's, and Jordan type players. 

OK, you're not engaging in a serious conversation. Just doing the ole Muggsy emotion and vibes thing. Moses had a great peak, but he simply did not have the quality of career that others have had. You admit you didn't see him play - I did pretty much his entire peak era. He was great. Saying he's one of the top-20ish players in NBA history is hardly a diss.

And I will point out inconsistencies about how you think Isaiah is not ranked high enough because of his titles, but Elgin is ranked too low - despite never winning an NBA title.

And I guess you will just ignore what I said about Barry.

Next time please bring smart arguments to the table instead of your usual nonsense.

[MuggsyB]

Garnett's team deficiencies probably prevented him from having multiple MVPs.  He stacks up pretty damn close to Duncan for that stretch in the mid 2000s.  But one was on a championship level team with multiple HOFs and the other was playing with Terrell Brandon and Anthony Peeler (and those were the pretty good Wolves teams, not the disasters shortly before he went to Boston)

Duncan was better and won 5.  The guy had no weaknesses and was consistently great on both ends of the floor.  Team deficiencies?  Did Baylor have teams with the talent of the Celtics?  Did Wilt?

[MuggsyB]

OK, you're not engaging in a serious conversation. Just doing the ole Muggsy emotion and vibes thing. Moses had a great peak, but he simply did not have the quality of career that others have had. You admit you didn't see him play - I did pretty much his entire peak era. He was great. Saying he's one of the top-20ish players in NBA history is hardly a diss.

And I will point out inconsistencies about how you think Isaiah is not ranked high enough because of his titles, but Elgin is ranked too low - despite never winning an NBA title.

And I guess you will just ignore what I said about Barry.

Next time please bring smart arguments to the table instead of your usual nonsense.

Did Moses win 3 MVP'S or not?  Did he not own the glass? 

[MuggsyB]

Garnett's team deficiencies probably prevented him from having multiple MVPs.  He stacks up pretty damn close to Duncan for that stretch in the mid 2000s.  But one was on a championship level team with multiple HOFs and the other was playing with Terrell Brandon and Anthony Peeler (and those were the pretty good Wolves teams, not the disasters shortly before he went to Boston)

Garnett's team deficiencies probably prevented him from having multiple MVPs.  He stacks up pretty damn close to Duncan for that stretch in the mid 2000s.  But one was on a championship level team with multiple HOFs and the other was playing with Terrell Brandon and Anthony Peeler (and those were the pretty good Wolves teams, not the disasters shortly before he went to Boston)

And he played with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo.  Duncan would have dome just fine in Boston 2008+

[Uncle Rico]

Did Moses win 3 MVP'S or not?  Did he not own the glass? 

He was a stad padder.  Paul Mokeski shut him down in '84

[MuggsyB]

He was a stad padder.  Paul Mokeski shut him down in '84

Did he not ruthlessly dominate in "83?  I like the guy.  May he rest in peace.   I'd like to average 24.5 ppg and 15 rebs. 

[MuggsyB]

My 9 man rotation 2026 rules would probably be:

Curry
Jordan
Lebron
Hakeem
Bird

Jokic
Bryant
Nowitzki
Giannis.

[The Sultan]

Did Moses win 3 MVP'S or not?  Did he not own the glass? 

He obviously won 3 MVPs. As I said, a great peak. But not as good of a career.

[The Sultan]

And he played with Pierce, Allen, and Rondo.  Duncan would have dome just fine in Boston 2008+

Garnett's peak years were in Minnesota where he was a one man band.

[Uncle Rico]

My 9 man rotation 2026 rules would probably be:

Curry
Jordan
Lebron
Hakeem
Bird

Jokic
Bryant
Nowitzki
Giannis.

Not having Cousy is a slap in the face of the troops

[MuggsyB]

Garnett's peak years were in Minnesota where he was a one man band.

They didn't do much. 

[MuggsyB]

Tiny Archibald was #80.  This reeks of DCB.  The only player to lead the league in points and dimes in a season. 

[Hards Alumni]

My 9 man rotation 2026 rules would probably be:

Curry
Jordan
Lebron
Hakeem
Bird

Jokic
Bryant
Nowitzki
Giannis.

Magic
Jordan
Lebron
Duncan
KAJ

Wilt
Malone
Oscar
Kobe

[cheebs09]

My 9 man rotation 2026 rules would probably be:

Curry
Jordan
Lebron
Hakeem
Bird

Jokic
Bryant
Nowitzki
Giannis.

Only one player shorter than 6'6. Why do you discount shorter players? Even Curry is 6'2. I thought you were better than this.

[Uncle Rico]

Only one player shorter than 6'6. Why do you discount shorter players? Even Curry is 6'2. I thought you were better than this.

The list is as bad a list as I've ever seen in my life in the history of all lists.

[tower912]

Make a list of worst lists.