Shooting at the Trump rally 7/13

[Pakuni]

I think its cause the two "likely" explanations are both very disconcerting.  One, that it is some sort of inside job (which doesn't necessarily mean Deep State or whatever the hell they want that to be)...or two, a MASSIVE f-up by the Secret Service to let someone have a clear shot that close.

And on the second, people aren't perfect and make mistakes, absolutely, but the whole point of a plan like that is to have double checks and fail-safes to mitigate that imperfection.  That also seems to have failed here, which isn't great.

You're much smarter than to suggest that an inside job is a likely explanation.

[MU82]

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that the Secret Service might have effed-up pretty bad in this case.

[lawdog77]

I think its cause the two "likely" explanations are both very disconcerting.  One, that it is some sort of inside job (which doesn't necessarily mean Deep State or whatever the hell they want that to be)...or two, a MASSIVE f-up by the Secret Service to let someone have a clear shot that close.

And on the second, people aren't perfect and make mistakes, absolutely, but the whole point of a plan like that is to have double checks and fail-safes to mitigate that imperfection.  That also seems to have failed here, which isn't great.

I am not sure it is either. Sounds, so far, that it was a massive f-up by local law enforcement. We'll see when the investigation moves forward.

[Pakuni]

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that the Secret Service might have effed-up pretty bad in this case.

I don't think it's outrageous to be open to that possibility.
I do think it's silly for a bunch of keyboard jockeys to be coming to conclusions one way or the other with such little pertinent information combined with no actual expertise when it comes to security.

The irony is that many of the same people who shrug their shoulders after mass shootings and say "you can't stop someone who's intent on doing evil" are now outraged by the failure to stop someone intent on doing evil.

[The Sultan]

I don't think it's outrageous to be open to that possibility.
I do think it's silly for a bunch of keyboard jockeys to be coming to conclusions one way or the other with such little pertinent information combined with no actual expertise when it comes to security.

The irony is that many of the same people who shrug their shoulders after mass shootings and say "you can't stop someone who's intent on doing evil" are now outraged by the failure to stop someone intent on doing evil.

Yep yep.

[JWags85]

You're much smarter than to suggest that an inside job is a likely explanation.

Hence saying "likely".  A FUBAR situation by Secret Service and/or their local liasons is the most logical conclusion.  But an inside job by some people involved is FAR more likely (but still insanely far fetched) than some vast Deep State conspiracy or kill order given by the Biden administration or whatever people are proposing.

I am not sure it is either. Sounds, so far, that it was a massive f-up by local law enforcement. We'll see when the investigation moves forward.

I don't claim to be an expert or fully versed in this, but its wild to me that local law enforcement would have that much unchecked responsibility/autonomy less than 200 yards away.  That in and of itself may be an oversight/contingency planning failure.

[Jockey]

I think its cause the two "likely" explanations are both very disconcerting.  One, that it is some sort of inside job (which doesn't necessarily mean Deep State or whatever the hell they want that to be)...or two, a MASSIVE f-up by the Secret Service to let someone have a clear shot that close.

And on the second, people aren't perfect and make mistakes, absolutely, but the whole point of a plan like that is to have double checks and fail-safes to mitigate that imperfection.  That also seems to have failed here, which isn't great.

No arguments with what you say, but the real failure of the SS was relying on a small-town police department as a major part of its protection plan. They simply are not capable of providing what is needed.

[Pakuni]

Hence saying "likely".  A FUBAR situation by Secret Service and/or their local liasons is the most logical conclusion.  But an inside job by some people involved is FAR more likely (but still insanely far fetched) than some vast Deep State conspiracy or kill order given by the Biden administration or whatever people are proposing.

I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario in which those plotting to murder a former/perhaps future president would rely upon someone like Matthew Thomas Crooks to do the job. Perhaps I lack the imagination of a John Grisham novel.

If someone gets a shot off at a current/former president, it's safe to say there was a security failure somewhere along the line. Beyond that, we know nothing.

[jesmu84]

I don't think it's outrageous to be open to that possibility.
I do think it's silly for a bunch of keyboard jockeys to be coming to conclusions one way or the other with such little pertinent information combined with no actual expertise when it comes to security.

The irony is that many of the same people who shrug their shoulders after mass shootings and say "you can't stop someone who's intent on doing evil" are now outraged by the failure to stop someone intent on doing evil.

Also, for the last 8? Years: Words don't matter. Rhetoric doesn't matter. Stochastic terrorism isn't a thing.

Beginning 7/13: Democrat rhetoric led to this! Words matter!

[cheebs09]

I would be interested to see if this was scheduled on short notice or security was focused on the RNC. I'm kind of stunned they didn't park one person on that roof.

It sounds like the officer who encountered him on the roof would have basically just been a sitting duck if he tried to engage. I think he was to confirm the threat to the SS, and the shooter shot quickly after. The officer may have sped up the shooter and caused the miss.

From what it sounds like, it wasn't too difficult of a shot, so the fact they didn't have that roof secured is stunning.

[Jay Bee]

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that the Secret Service might have effed-up pretty bad in this case.

Rocky draws the line. You're not allowed to suggest this as a possibility!

[Jockey]

I would be interested to see if this was scheduled on short notice or security was focused on the RNC. I'm kind of stunned they didn't park one person on that roof.

It sounds like the officer who encountered him on the roof would have basically just been a sitting duck if he tried to engage. I think he was to confirm the threat to the SS, and the shooter shot quickly after. The officer may have sped up the shooter and caused the miss.

From what it sounds like, it wasn't too difficult of a shot, so the fact they didn't have that roof secured is stunning.

Normally there should be SS snipers on all high vantage points.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I would be interested to see if this was scheduled on short notice or security was focused on the RNC. I'm kind of stunned they didn't park one person on that roof.

It sounds like the officer who encountered him on the roof would have basically just been a sitting duck if he tried to engage. I think he was to confirm the threat to the SS, and the shooter shot quickly after. The officer may have sped up the shooter and caused the miss.

From what it sounds like, it wasn't too difficult of a shot, so the fact they didn't have that roof secured is stunning.

FWIW, I did read the SS was going full bore prepping for the RNC.  Not saying it should have affected preparation for other events.

[Herman Cain]

AB weighs in on events of the weekend.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nfl-player-antonio-brown-weighs-after-trump-shooting

[Skatastrophy]

AB weighs in on events of the weekend.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nfl-player-antonio-brown-weighs-after-trump-shooting

Shut up and dribble, eh?

[Pakuni]

Shut up and dribble, eh?

Just one felon supporting another felon.

[MU82]

I don't think it's outrageous to be open to that possibility.
I do think it's silly for a bunch of keyboard jockeys to be coming to conclusions one way or the other with such little pertinent information combined with no actual expertise when it comes to security.

True, but even some "keyboard jockeys" are thoughtful individuals who, while not jumping to a conclusion that the SS effed up, acknowledge that the SS very well might have effed up after taking in all the evidence available to us right now.

Here's this from the Washington Post:

Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said Monday that Saturday's shooting at Donald Trump's campaign rally in Pennsylvania marked "a failure" of security.

"When I say that something like this cannot happen, we are speaking of a failure," Mayorkas told CNN's Kate Bolduan. "We are going to analyze, through an independent review, how that occurred, why it occurred, and make recommendations and findings to make sure it doesn't happen again. I couldn't be clearer."

The Secret Service, which is under Department of Homeland Security, is facing a wave of scrutiny over the breach, in which a 20-year-old man wielding a semiautomatic rifle, identified by officials as Thomas Matthew Crooks, was able to gain access to a roof around 140 yards from the stage where Trump was delivering his remarks.

Secret Service members fatally shot Crooks and surrounded Trump — who was not seriously injured — before rushing him into a vehicle. While the FBI has taken the lead in the investigation into the apparent assassination attempt, Mayorkas said DHS "will carefully analyze, in an independent and thorough fashion, what occurred."

Mayorkas on Monday also pushed back on lawmakers' suggestions that the agency had rebuffed requests for additional security for Trump, calling such claims "unequivocally false" during an interview with ABC News.

"We had enhanced security for the former president beginning at least in June," Mayorkas said. "We have not received any requests for additional security measures that were rebuffed."

So it's not just keyboard jockeys wondering about this.

The irony is that many of the same people who shrug their shoulders after mass shootings and say "you can't stop someone who's intent on doing evil" are now outraged by the failure to stop someone intent on doing evil.

Oh, absolutely. One thing the shooter didn't kill was the inclination of many people to be hypocrites.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

AB weighs in on events of the weekend.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nfl-player-antonio-brown-weighs-after-trump-shooting

Lmao

[cheebs09]

AB weighs in on events of the weekend.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nfl-player-antonio-brown-weighs-after-trump-shooting

I don't have an opinion until I hear from Ja Rule.

[lawdog77]

AB weighs in on events of the weekend.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/former-nfl-player-antonio-brown-weighs-after-trump-shooting

Mine says need to join  Fox news to access. What does the article say? I am on pins and needles.

[MU82]

You think that a national news reporter calling a presidential candidate Hitler isn't hate speech that can inspire violence? Sure.

Not too many years ago, J.D. Vance called the previous president "noxious," "reprehensible," "cultural heroin," and an "idiot." Vance also was worried that the previous president would be "America's Hitler."

So I guess Joy Reid has a chance to be vice president someday.

[GB Warrior]

Not too many years ago, J.D. Vance called the previous president "noxious," "reprehensible," "cultural heroin," and an "idiot." Vance also was worried that the previous president would be "America's Hitler."

So I guess Joy Reid has a chance to be vice president someday.

82 beat me to it - Look forward to the moral outrage at Vance

[Skatastrophy]

Not too many years ago, J.D. Vance called the previous president "noxious," "reprehensible," "cultural heroin," and an "idiot." Vance also was worried that the previous president would be "America's Hitler."

So I guess Joy Reid has a chance to be vice president someday.

Maybe this is an effort to keep other young conservatives from trying to assassinate Trump?

[Pakuni]

Not too many years ago, J.D. Vance called the previous president "noxious," "reprehensible," "cultural heroin," and an "idiot." Vance also was worried that the previous president would be "America's Hitler."

So I guess Joy Reid has a chance to be vice president someday.

JD Vance needs to be held responsible for what happened Saturday.
- Lenny, probably

[The Sultan]

Not too many years ago, J.D. Vance called the previous president "noxious," "reprehensible," "cultural heroin," and an "idiot." Vance also was worried that the previous president would be "America's Hitler."

So I guess Joy Reid has a chance to be vice president someday.

The problem, of course, is that people don't really care. As long as their desires are being met, they can simply ignore what someone said or did before. There is no honor in standing up for your words or your beliefs. Everything is malleable and justifiable.

So I doubt Lenny's will say much of anything. Or he will soft-pedal it to the point where his initial outrage was simply meaningless.