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Author Topic: Next Season  (Read 22203 times)

Vander Blue Man Group

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Next Season
« on: March 30, 2024, 10:13:08 AM »
It's hard not to continue to dwell on last night and replay the "what ifs" over and over again.  So for me, even though it's 7 and a half months away, my thoughts turn toward next season. 

The key will be does Kam come back.  He'll go through the draft process as he should but I think it's more likely than not that he's back.  Hopefully that's not just wishful thinking.  His presence gives us a go-to scorer that we need. 

From there, Jop and Stevie will be seniors.  Neither will be a star but both can and should continue to improve, hopefully bringing along more consistency (especially in Jop's case). 

Huge summers ahead for Chase and Ben.  We all see the potential there - if they can both take big leaps that changes what the team can become. 

And then a lot of questions.  How much can Zaide and Tre improve?  Zaide looks like he has an enormous ceiling.  What can Hamilton and Al provide?  Same with the incoming freshman...Parham and Owens seem to have a ton of offensive skill - how quickly can the develop defensively to get on the court? 

Obviously no idea if we'll have any transfers out or if Shaka will use the portal. 

Curious to read some other thoughts so I don't have to think about last night. 

forgetful

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2024, 10:19:46 AM »
First, you have to see what Kam, TK, and Oso decide to do.

Odds are 2/3 at least go Pro. If all 3 go pro, you have to bring in at least one person from the portal, and maybe you still bring in one from the portal regardless, with Sean Jones out until likely January.

Next, you have to react to any other potential transfers. If any of the younger players decide to enter the portal they have to be replaced from the portal. We can't go into next season with less than 12 on the roster, and although we typically do have 12 on the roster, with Sean Jones' injury, we might want to have a full 13 man roster this season.

nyg

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2024, 10:20:13 AM »
You posted this about a month too early.  Many of your questions should be answered by then and until the final roster is formalized, no clue as to what is in store for next year.   Should be a very interesting month to come.

tower912

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2024, 10:21:07 AM »
Yup.  Can't project or worry about next season for a while.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

CountryRoads

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2024, 10:26:00 AM »
First, you have to see what Kam, TK, and Oso decide to do.

Odds are 2/3 at least go Pro. If all 3 go pro, you have to bring in at least one person from the portal, and maybe you still bring in one from the portal regardless, with Sean Jones out until likely January.

Next, you have to react to any other potential transfers. If any of the younger players decide to enter the portal they have to be replaced from the portal. We can't go into next season with less than 12 on the roster, and although we typically do have 12 on the roster, with Sean Jones' injury, we might want to have a full 13 man roster this season.

Whatever the case may be with the three you mentioned, I hope they decide and commit quickly to what they are doing. I think Shaka will hold all of their spots until the moment they are officially not returning which may cause us to miss out on some good replacement opportunities.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2024, 10:27:57 AM »
Yup.  Can't project or worry about next season for a while.

There's really no rule that we can't start talking about it already when we likely have a pretty good idea with the roster will look like, although that mostly hinges on Kam. 

Warrior of Law

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2024, 10:30:47 AM »
I would very surprised if Shaka brings someone in from the transfer portal that he didn't heavily recruit out of HS. To that end, are there any former recruiting targets in the portal?
"You can only protect your liberties in this world by protecting the other man's freedom. You can only be free if I am free."  Clarence Darrow

tower912

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2024, 10:35:51 AM »
We can talk all day.  It is what we do.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

nyg

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2024, 10:38:37 AM »
There's really no rule that we can't start talking about it already when we likely have a pretty good idea with the roster will look like, although that mostly hinges on Kam.

Yes, but not just Kam.  Have no idea if any other current player leaves.  Portal players in.  Example: does Shaka redshirt Amadou to bring in experienced big?  Many questions. Appreciate your thoughts and you were the first, but Muggsy now started another thread sort of in the identical topics, shocked.   

DoctorV

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2024, 10:49:52 AM »
I’ll take a stab at it.

It clearly all depends on who leaves for the NBA and who returns.

Scenario A) Lets assume Oso, Tyler, Kam all leave- I’ll set that at extremely low probability but it’s possible.

— In this case, Shaka will have a lot of work to do starting this week. Marquette keeps things very close to the vest, but you’ll start seeing the program discussed with several high caliber guards/wings.
Losing Kam, Tyler, and SJ22 for at least half the season leaves you with Stevie and Tre at guard. You’ve got Chase and Zaide that can handle the ball some but they are 2/3s more than 1/2s.

This scenario becomes a big problem for Shaka- one that he doesn’t expect IMO because I’m sure he’s always thought Kam is coming back. The way he responded to Ben Steeles question to Kam about the NBA stock rising was telling. Part of the problem is that he likely won’t know for a while for certain, but in this case I expect 2-3 portal transfers, one that is a bonafide stud with 1 year remaining.

Scenario B) Oso and Tyler leave, Kam stays.
I’m not as certain as most scoopers on this, but I’ll go with the group think as this is the most likely scenario.

— In this case Kam becomes the star of the show. He’s our All BEPoY candidate and All American candidate. Backcourt of him and Stewie, with Jop, Chase, Ben and the others is sufficient to make the tourney.
I think in this case Shaka goes one of two ways. I still think he adds a piece for depth because of the SJ22 injury- maybe a role player shooter or combo guard? Maybe an upperclassman pg that can defend? Or maybe he goes out and tries to get another star to play alongside Kam and may the best man get the minutes when it comes to the others.

Scenario C) Oso leaves, Tyler and Kam return. Most consider pretty unlikely, but anything’s possible.

— Marquette is a top 5 program next season from the jump. This would probably lead to the highest expectations in my lifetime.
I would expect no additions, but wouldn’t be shocked with the addition of an elite 4/5 in the ilk of Grant Nelson to really make Marquette a bonafide title contender. This would mean a few transfers on the back end of the roster, and that’s ok.

Scenario D) Scenario B above (only Kam returns of the ‘Big 3’) and another player or two transfer.

— I won’t speculate on who, because I have no idea, but if we see someone transfer Shaka will go portalling in that position.
For example- Al or Caedin transfers, Shaka brings in a 5. Zaide or Jop transfer, brings in a 3/4.
Again, purely speculative. I think we would also see a 1/2 come in because of SJ22.

Last guess- this isn’t Shaka’s style, or hasn’t been thus far, but I would be a fan of bringing in a top portal guy regardless of position and fitting the parts around that. I don’t think Shaka will ever go “wild” in the portal, but I think he’s got the system in place and the trust from his team to do the right thing.
For example- you bring in a stud scoring PG and Stevie loses some minutes, as does Tre, but you have a more elite team that can make a run.
You bring in a stud 3/4 elite scorer and defender, like the Illini did with Shannon Jr, and Jop loses some minutes but your team is way better.

Worst case scenario a few guys have their feelings hurt, but at the end of the day winning cures everything and those athletes then have to decide if they want to stay and win at Marquette or go elsewhere to try to star in a different role. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2024, 10:54:52 AM »
I’ll take a stab at it.

It clearly all depends on who leaves for the NBA and who returns.

Scenario A) Lets assume Oso, Tyler, Kam all leave- I’ll set that at extremely low probability but it’s possible.

— In this case, Shaka will have a lot of work to do starting this week. Marquette keeps things very close to the vest, but you’ll start seeing the program discussed with several high caliber guards/wings.
Losing Kam, Tyler, and SJ22 for at least half the season leaves you with Stevie and Tre at guard. You’ve got Chase and Zaide that can handle the ball some but they are 2/3s more than 1/2s.

This scenario becomes a big problem for Shaka- one that he doesn’t expect IMO because I’m sure he’s always thought Kam is coming back. The way he responded to Ben Steeles question to Kam about the NBA stock rising was telling. Part of the problem is that he likely won’t know for a while for certain, but in this case I expect 2-3 portal transfers, one that is a bonafide stud with 1 year remaining.

Scenario B) Oso and Tyler leave, Kam stays.
I’m not as certain as most scoopers on this, but I’ll go with the group think as this is the most likely scenario.

— In this case Kam becomes the star of the show. He’s our All BEPoY candidate and All American candidate. Backcourt of him and Stewie, with Jop, Chase, Ben and the others is sufficient to make the tourney.
I think in this case Shaka goes one of two ways. I still think he adds a piece for depth because of the SJ22 injury- maybe a role player shooter or combo guard? Maybe an upperclassman pg that can defend? Or maybe he goes out and tries to get another star to play alongside Kam and may the best man get the minutes when it comes to the others.

Scenario C) Oso leaves, Tyler and Kam return. Most consider pretty unlikely, but anything’s possible.

— Marquette is a top 5 program next season from the jump. This would probably lead to the highest expectations in my lifetime.
I would expect no additions, but wouldn’t be shocked with the addition of an elite 4/5 in the ilk of Grant Nelson to really make Marquette a bonafide title contender. This would mean a few transfers on the back end of the roster, and that’s ok.

Scenario D) Scenario B above (only Kam returns of the ‘Big 3’) and another player or two transfer.

— I won’t speculate on who, because I have no idea, but if we see someone transfer Shaka will go portalling in that position.
For example- Al or Caedin transfers, Shaka brings in a 5. Zaide or Jop transfer, brings in a 3/4.
Again, purely speculative. I think we would also see a 1/2 come in because of SJ22.

Last guess- this isn’t Shaka’s style, or hasn’t been thus far, but I would be a fan of bringing in a top portal guy regardless of position and fitting the parts around that. I don’t think Shaka will ever go “wild” in the portal, but I think he’s got the system in place and the trust from his team to do the right thing.
For example- you bring in a stud scoring PG and Stevie loses some minutes, as does Tre, but you have a more elite team that can make a run.
You bring in a stud 3/4 elite scorer and defender, like the Illini did with Shannon Jr, and Jop loses some minutes but your team is way better.

Worst case scenario a few guys have their feelings hurt, but at the end of the day winning cures everything and those athletes then have to decide if they want to stay and win at Marquette or go elsewhere to try to star in a different role. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Appreciate the in-depth thoughts.

CountryRoads

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2024, 11:00:13 AM »
I would very surprised if Shaka brings someone in from the transfer portal that he didn't heavily recruit out of HS. To that end, are there any former recruiting targets in the portal?

I think Seth Trimble or Leon Bond would be a good natural fit should either enter the portal. Would be hyped for either. Highly doubt we make a big splash (ie Knecht, Grant Nelson, etc).

Viper

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2024, 11:32:11 AM »
I think Seth Trimble or Leon Bond would be a good natural fit should either enter the portal. Would be hyped for either. Highly doubt we make a big splash (ie Knecht, Grant Nelson, etc).
I’m assuming TK is gone. Trimble, a local Menomonee Falls product and relation to former UNC forward JP Tokoto, committed to Hubert Davis early so not sure how hard MU recruited him. But I agree with you, I would be excited to have him w/MU. A true PG w/experience will be a solid addition.

The Equalizer

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2024, 11:48:07 AM »
I’ll take a stab at it.

It clearly all depends on who leaves for the NBA and who returns.

Scenario A) Lets assume Oso, Tyler, Kam all leave- I’ll set that at extremely low probability but it’s possible.

— In this case, Shaka will have a lot of work to do starting this week. Marquette keeps things very close to the vest, but you’ll start seeing the program discussed with several high caliber guards/wings.
Losing Kam, Tyler, and SJ22 for at least half the season leaves you with Stevie and Tre at guard. You’ve got Chase and Zaide that can handle the ball some but they are 2/3s more than 1/2s.

This scenario becomes a big problem for Shaka- one that he doesn’t expect IMO because I’m sure he’s always thought Kam is coming back. The way he responded to Ben Steeles question to Kam about the NBA stock rising was telling. Part of the problem is that he likely won’t know for a while for certain, but in this case I expect 2-3 portal transfers, one that is a bonafide stud with 1 year remaining.

Scenario B) Oso and Tyler leave, Kam stays.
I’m not as certain as most scoopers on this, but I’ll go with the group think as this is the most likely scenario.

— In this case Kam becomes the star of the show. He’s our All BEPoY candidate and All American candidate. Backcourt of him and Stewie, with Jop, Chase, Ben and the others is sufficient to make the tourney.
I think in this case Shaka goes one of two ways. I still think he adds a piece for depth because of the SJ22 injury- maybe a role player shooter or combo guard? Maybe an upperclassman pg that can defend? Or maybe he goes out and tries to get another star to play alongside Kam and may the best man get the minutes when it comes to the others.

Scenario C) Oso leaves, Tyler and Kam return. Most consider pretty unlikely, but anything’s possible.

— Marquette is a top 5 program next season from the jump. This would probably lead to the highest expectations in my lifetime.
I would expect no additions, but wouldn’t be shocked with the addition of an elite 4/5 in the ilk of Grant Nelson to really make Marquette a bonafide title contender. This would mean a few transfers on the back end of the roster, and that’s ok.

Scenario D) Scenario B above (only Kam returns of the ‘Big 3’) and another player or two transfer.

— I won’t speculate on who, because I have no idea, but if we see someone transfer Shaka will go portalling in that position.
For example- Al or Caedin transfers, Shaka brings in a 5. Zaide or Jop transfer, brings in a 3/4.
Again, purely speculative. I think we would also see a 1/2 come in because of SJ22.

Last guess- this isn’t Shaka’s style, or hasn’t been thus far, but I would be a fan of bringing in a top portal guy regardless of position and fitting the parts around that. I don’t think Shaka will ever go “wild” in the portal, but I think he’s got the system in place and the trust from his team to do the right thing.
For example- you bring in a stud scoring PG and Stevie loses some minutes, as does Tre, but you have a more elite team that can make a run.
You bring in a stud 3/4 elite scorer and defender, like the Illini did with Shannon Jr, and Jop loses some minutes but your team is way better.

Worst case scenario a few guys have their feelings hurt, but at the end of the day winning cures everything and those athletes then have to decide if they want to stay and win at Marquette or go elsewhere to try to star in a different role. It’s just the nature of the beast.

Any of this would require a massive change in Shaka's perspective to building a team.

First, any portal transfer that is capable of keeping a Big East team in contention for a title is going to come with some hefty NIL expectations.  This is diametrically opposed to Shaka's publicly stated position on opposing paying new guys big NIL money ahead of the guys who have already paid their dues with MU.

Second, while not quite as explicitly stated, one of the tenets of a strong culture is a policy of not recruiting over your current players.  Shaka wasn't willing to do it this year and recruit over Stevie, Gold, Jop or Chase with a potential NCAA championship on the line.  It would be a huge shift in policy to start now.

Third, Shaka has publicly stated that he prefers to build his teams with overlooked guys out of HS and have them stay four years. Turning to the portal now is tantamount to an admission that his ability to find the "diamonds in the rough" and keep them four years isn't working.  And this was always the most curious tenet of his culture, given that nearly every top performer he's had at Marquette was found out of HS by someone else.  Oso, Kam, Stevie, and Lewis were found by Wojo.  Omax, Kuath, Kolek and Morsell were transfers and by definition found out of HS by someone else.   

I'd love for Shaka to accept a Hurley-like approach of blending lower-level "diamonds in the rough" (Karaban, ranked #118 out of HS) with top 50 recruits (Castle RCSI #9, Clingan RSCI #37) who you know aren't going to stick around 4 years, and round out with the best out of the portal (Newton from East Carolina, Spencer from Rutgers).   





  


mileskishnish72

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2024, 11:53:46 AM »
You posted this about a month too early.  Many of your questions should be answered by then and until the final roster is formalized, no clue as to what is in store for next year.   Should be a very interesting month to come.

Correct. But you can't blame VBMG - thinking about next year makes it easier to not think about last night.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2024, 01:18:16 PM »
I 100% expect Oso and Tyler to leave.  Kam is more up in the air.

Does Kam test the waters like Justin Lewis and leave, even if he's just a fringe draft prospect?

Does Kam test waters, see a meteoric rise in his draft stock like O-Max, and stay in the draft?

Or does Kam eschew the draft process entirely like Oso did last year?

Then we have to see if anyone transfers out.  Then see how Shaka addresses the roster.

Markusquette

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2024, 01:30:30 PM »
The newcomers need to make more of an immediate impact for 24-25, that's for sure. Ross showed flashes of potential. Perhaps he can have a Sacar-like trajectory at MU. Gold has been timid and lacks aggression. MU's not in a great spot with their big men from an experience and physicality standpoint.

Oso's late season collapse almost softens the blow of his departure. Tyler also got the best out of him a lot. Sad to say but Oso played his way out of the draft this past month.

I think Shaka has to grab a couple difference makers in the portal if he wants to compete in the NCAA's. More than 2 holes though as we need another PG, physical big man and shooter(s). It's hard to get too excited about the freshmen each year regardless of their HS performance.

Viper

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2024, 01:59:46 PM »
I use UConn as the benchmark. I had them as repeat champs from day 1. Hurley has it rolling and simply reloads. So…What will we have next season to stay with UConn? For me, that’s the question. 

Goose

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2024, 02:01:08 PM »
I think we are going to see exactly what a Shaka recruit looks like next season. I think he was somewhat handcuffed on who he could bring in this year because the core was set. Time will tell on Zaide and Tre, but they were safe bets this season. Bringing in guys that could get frustrated with lack of PT and then hit the portal would not have been a wise move.

I think all three of the incoming guys are going to be the start of the true Shaka era at MU. Add Chase, Sean Jones and Ben and you have a good core.

That said, I expect to lose the big three and 1-2 other guys in the coming weeks. There likely will be space for a couple of portal guys.

CountryRoads

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2024, 02:08:00 PM »
I use UConn as the benchmark. I had them as repeat champs from day 1. Hurley has it rolling and simply reloads. So…What will we have next season to stay with UConn? For me, that’s the question.

They are losing their top 5 or 6 players, which is more than we are. We should have a head start on them. Our incoming classes are very similar. It’ll be interesting to see what both programs do in the offseason to remain BE contenders next year. You can probably throw Creighton in there as well in terms of being in a similar position.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2024, 02:13:40 PM »
I think we are going to see exactly what a Shaka recruit looks like next season. I think he was somewhat handcuffed on who he could bring in this year because the core was set. Time will tell on Zaide and Tre, but they were safe bets this season. Bringing in guys that could get frustrated with lack of PT and then hit the portal would not have been a wise move.

I think all three of the incoming guys are going to be the start of the true Shaka era at MU. Add Chase, Sean Jones and Ben and you have a good core.

That said, I expect to lose the big three and 1-2 other guys in the coming weeks. There likely will be space for a couple of portal guys.

Why do you think Kam goes?

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2024, 02:14:47 PM »
Players aside, I hope the full staff returns. Smith has done wonders with the offense, and the continuity of the other assistants with recruiting has been very strong.

Goose

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2024, 02:18:53 PM »
Vander

You go when you are young and stock is high. If, and I say if, MU were to struggle a bit next year it could hurt Kam in the draft. Plus, he will never see more open 3’s in college basketball.
While Oso went out on a downer, Kam knocked out of the park the past handful of weeks.

As for anyone that thinks Oso hurt himself badly, I disagree. The good Oso is what the smart guys like about him and they always think they can make the good happen.I do not think he will be needing any charity events or go fund me set up for him.

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2024, 02:29:30 PM »
Vander

You go when you are young and stock is high. If, and I say if, MU were to struggle a bit next year it could hurt Kam in the draft. Plus, he will never see more open 3’s in college basketball.
While Oso went out on a downer, Kam knocked out of the park the past handful of weeks.

As for anyone that thinks Oso hurt himself badly, I disagree. The good Oso is what the smart guys like about him and they always think they can make the good happen.I do not think he will be needing any charity events or go fund me set up for him.

Fair points regarding Kam. He’ll go through the process, obviously.

I don’t see a team promising to take him in the 1st. So is being a potential 2nd rounder enough?  It certainly could be but I think there’s a solid chance he’s back.

Of course there’s a solid chance I’m completely wrong.

Goose

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Re: Next Season
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2024, 02:31:23 PM »
Vander

I could be wrong, but I think you always take the first chance you get to make the league. The gamble of coming back seems high to me, but time will tell.

 

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