Tyler Kolek's "legacy"

[Elonsmusk]

Retire 11 right after we retire 0

Teal?

[Tha Hound]

I would die for Tyler

[Hards Alumni]

Teal?

No.  He's right.

[Herman Cain]

TyKo has been an extremely fun player to watch these last three years. His Excellent unselfish play, winning focused attitude and dedication to his teammates success on the court have been phenomenal .  The results for the MU program because of these efforts have been superb.

As far as his legacy goes, I would put him somewhere in the grouping of Lloyd Walton/ Travis Diener as far as MU point guards go, with a nod to Dean Meminger as Number 1 ( Butch Lee for these purposes defined as Shooting Guard).

All Time TyKo probably in top 20 at MU at this point. That is a very high ranking considering how many excellent players have appeared in an MU uniform. A deeper run this year could place him higher.

[cheebs09]

Retire 11 right after we retire 0

Retire 11 after Tyler takes us to the moon over the next two weeks.

[Elonsmusk]

No.  He's right.

Want to retire the jersey of a player who never won an NCAA tournament game, never was voted Big East POY, never won a Big East Championship, BEFORE a guy who has done all of the above and advanced us to our first Sweet 16 in 10 years?  Nah.

Markus was a prolific scorer, good student and great representative while at MU.  His leadership left a lot to be desired - was a me first player and teammate, despite what his most die hard fans want to believe.

[Goose]

Herman

Post Al era, who do you have ahead of TK in the top twenty list of all time greats? IMO, there are a good number of players in the AL era that are better than TK, but nowhere near twenty.

[WarriorDoc]

Want to retire the jersey of a player who never won an NCAA tournament game, never was voted Big East POY, never won a Big East Championship, BEFORE a guy who has done all of the above and advanced us to our first Sweet 16 in 10 years?  Nah.

Markus was a prolific scorer, good student and great representative while at MU.  His leadership left a lot to be desired - was a me first player and teammate, despite what his most die hard fans want to believe.

Your point stands completely and I agree with it, but Markus was BE POY in 2019-20 season.

[tower912]

 

Tyler's legacy is not yet complete.   I have been on the TKo train since the Illinois game during his first season at MU.  (Brunson!)  I argued passionately with silverwarrior on the other board who wanted to move Tyler off the ball or to the bench and hand Sean the keys.   I admired his statement in NY prior to his second season at MU.    And then he backed it up.   I chuckled at barbecue chicken and repeated it on Sunday about Lampkins.    He has had bad games and slumps.   He is human.    I will always appreciate the passion, the fight, the attitude he brought.    Retire his jersey.    Not his number.   

[Its DJOver]

Your point stands completely and I agree with it, but Markus was BE POY in 2019-20 season.

He's never been one to let facts get in the way of his opinions.  Both deserve to be retired IMO, and you don't need to try to diminish the accomplishments of one in order to prop up the other.  Both outstanding players.

[tower912]

I agree.   I am a big fan of both.   

[The Sultan]

Want to retire the jersey of a player who never won an NCAA tournament game, never was voted Big East POY, never won a Big East Championship, BEFORE a guy who has done all of the above and advanced us to our first Sweet 16 in 10 years?  Nah.

Markus was a prolific scorer, good student and great representative while at MU.  His leadership left a lot to be desired - was a me first player and teammate, despite what his most die hard fans want to believe.

I generally agree with you but Markus was not only BEPOY, but he was a first team consensus AA. The first since Wade.

And you can stop with the hyperbole in the second paragraph. There is no indication anywhere that he was a "me first" player.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Want to retire the jersey of a player who never won an NCAA tournament game, never was voted Big East POY, never won a Big East Championship, BEFORE a guy who has done all of the above and advanced us to our first Sweet 16 in 10 years?  Nah.

Markus was a prolific scorer, good student and great representative while at MU.  His leadership left a lot to be desired - was a me first player and teammate, despite what his most die hard fans want to believe.

Tyler deserves it more than Markus. But Markus has a few years on Tyler so I think he would be retired one year and TKo in the following years.

Markus actually was BE POY his junior season. He was also a two time All American ( including first team All American). He doesnt have the team success but he makes up for it by being not only the programs all time leading scorer but also the Big Easts. That profile gets your number retired IMHO.

[Hards Alumni]

Want to retire the jersey of a player who never won an NCAA tournament game, never was voted Big East POY, never won a Big East Championship, BEFORE a guy who has done all of the above and advanced us to our first Sweet 16 in 10 years?  Nah.

Markus was a prolific scorer, good student and great representative while at MU.  His leadership left a lot to be desired - was a me first player and teammate, despite what his most die hard fans want to believe.

Yes.  I do want to retire the jersey of a player who was a first team All-American, 2020 NCAA scoring champ, won the Senior CLASS award, was one of the best human beings to put on the Blue and Gold, and who routinely put a poorly coached team on his back and won a ton of games... and who was robbed of his Senior finale due to Covid.  He is the all time scoring leader in Marquette history BY 776 POINTS.  Kam Jones would have to double all of the points he has every scored and even then he wouldn't catch Markus.  Markus is one of three players in the history of the NCAA to drop three 50 point games in a season.  The numbers that Markus put up were eye watering, and should be appreciated.

I get it.  You don't like Wojo.  Not many do, I was very happy to see him go.  But that isn't a prerequisite for acknowledging that Markus Howard was an enormous talent and a huge part of Marquette's history.  His accomplishments should be acknowledged, and it should be done ASAP.

Tyler is still playing.  It's been four years since Markus picked up a ball with Marquette on his jersey.  Get it up there.

[Galway Eagle]

Markus was also instrumental in getting Oso to MU so he showed his chops on the recruiting trail as well.

[BrewCity83]

Yes.  I do want to retire the jersey of a player who was a first team All-American, 2020 NCAA scoring champ, won the Senior CLASS award, was one of the best human beings to put on the Blue and Gold, and who routinely put a poorly coached team on his back and won a ton of games... and who was robbed of his Senior finale due to Covid.  He is the all time scoring leader in Marquette history BY 776 POINTS.  Kam Jones would have to double all of the points he has every scored and even then he wouldn't catch Markus.  Markus is one of three players in the history of the NCAA to drop three 50 point games in a season.  The numbers that Markus put up were eye watering, and should be appreciated.

I get it.  You don't like Wojo.  Not many do, I was very happy to see him go.  But that isn't a prerequisite for acknowledging that Markus Howard was an enormous talent and a huge part of Marquette's history.  His accomplishments should be acknowledged, and it should be done ASAP.

Tyler is still playing.  It's been four years since Markus picked up a ball with Marquette on his jersey.  Get it up there.

Amen, brother!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Agree with all the Kolek sentiment...definitely an all timer. I feel the same way about Diener, by the way.

[Shooter McGavin]

I do agree that MH should have his number retired (Jersey for those so inclined, but think all retired numbers should be changed to jerseys as well.  To me it's the stature we are talking about and not tiers of stature.  Either way it should be extremely rigorous criteria).  Markus was the best scorer in MU history and with his Brig East and All-American accolades deserves retirement.  The scoring was so ridiculous I think it has to be recognized in this fashion. I don't think bad coaching should be held against him.

But Kolek seems to be a program changer at a time when MU needed it badly (a slight indictment on Howard perhaps).  His accolades, performance and yet to be tournament success should be recognized even before MH if he takes MU to a final four. 

[Elonsmusk]

He's never been one to let facts get in the way of his opinions.  Both deserve to be retired IMO, and you don't need to try to diminish the accomplishments of one in order to prop up the other.  Both outstanding players.

I forgot Markus was Big East POY.  I'm not knocking Markus down to prop up Tyler.  Tyler needs no "propping up."  His merits stand on their own, regardless of Markus Howard's accomplishments.  As I said, Markus was a prolific scorer, good student, and great representative of MU.  I don't necessarily feel the being a prolific scorer, and all-time program leading scorer, while not winning any NCAA games in 4 years qualifies one for jersey retirement.

Yes, it is true Markus played for a poor coach.  Yet Markus 100% chose to hoist up contested, early shot clock shots, which frustrated his other talented teammates (some more than others), and led to transfers.  Thus my opinion that he was a me first player versus a team player.

[tower912]

Both, and.

[MU82]

When I started this thread, I wasn't expecting it to become a Markus (and Wojo) discussion, but I guess I shoulda known better cuz I ain't new here.

I also wasn't aware at the time that Ben Steele had written an article about Kolek's legacy:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2024/03/24/tyler-kolek-and-shaka-smart-lead-marquette-to-sweet-16-of-ncaa-tournament-by-beating-colorado/73084748007/?utm_source=jsonline-dailybriefing-strada&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailybriefing-greeting&utm_term=hero&utm_content=pmjs-milwaukee-nletter65

I won't cut-and-paste the article because I want to honor the paywall, but here's the quote from Kolek:

"It's not something I really reflect on because I'm still in the moment. We're still winning games. We got more to come. My legacy isn't a closed book. It's not already finished. Just trying to continue to do things that this program hasn't done in a long time is our goal."

[CountryRoads]

Few questions:

What is the criteria for retiring a player's number?

Is it only on court accomplishments while at MU? For example, if Kolek becomes an NBA all-star does that have any impact on retiring his MU jersey? I don't think Wade's legacy at MU finished with the Kansas loss.

Lastly, who decides if a player's number gets retired?

[Uncle Rico]

Few questions:

What is the criteria for retiring a player's number?

Is it only on court accomplishments while at MU? For example, if Kolek becomes an NBA all-star does that have any impact on retiring his MU jersey? I don't think Wade's legacy at MU finished with the Kansas loss.

Lastly, who decides if a player's number gets retired?

If they weren't part of a natty, take their numbers down.  End of story

[BrewCity83]

Doc Rivers decides.

[Pakuni]

Can't retire the number of a player who got through Marquette without learning to read.