Tyler Kolek's "legacy"

[MU82]

Goose and I started a conversation in the SoG thread but I really think it deserves its own thread, so here we go.

I'll start with Goose's comment in that thread:

If TK and the team accomplishes their goal, 11 will be in the rafters of the FF. I stand by assessment that he is the second best player post AL, only behind DWade. Other guys may have better post MU careers, but none have played better at MU aside from DWade, imo.

Goose and I have had quite a few conversations about this over the last couple of years, and I've repeatedly said that to truly be "great," in my eyes, a player has to deliver in the NCAA tournament. Some might say that's not fair - for example, it "eliminates" the likes of Markus Howard, Wes Matthews, etc - but that's just how I feel.

So I was withholding my judgment on Kolek to: "He's been great for the program, no question, but ... "

Well, on top of all the incredible, important things he's done for the program overall, Tyler now has delivered with two outstanding performances to carry us to the Sweet 16.

He did so after returning from an injury that was serious enough to keep him out of the Big East tournament. He did so despite getting relatively little help from his running mate, Oso. He did so without getting anything in the second half yesterday from Kam, who committed 4 dopey fouls to take himself out of the game. He did so by taking over a game we absolutely needed him to take over.

Add that to his remarkable run in the conference season last year, and in the 2023 Big East Tournament, and all this season.

Tyler arrived at Marquette a time that the program desperately needed a leader like him. He struggled some his first season, but he worked incredibly hard during the following offseason to turn himself into one of the very best players in the country.

He has unique court vision, passing ability and unselfishness. My main criticism of him is that sometimes he's too freakin' unselfish. Add in his swagger, and it's the complete package.

I'll agree with Goose about Kolek's importance to the program. To that end, I give a ton of credit to Shaka Smart. Kolek wasn't even the point guard at George Mason, yet Shaka saw in Tyler a kid who could be a great PG for Marquette. And of course Shaka and his assistants deserve credit for their role in Tyler's development into a two-time All-American.

Kolek already has had a better career than a couple players whose numbers hang in the rafters, so I hope he gets consideration for that even in the very unlikely event that we don't win any more games this season. But yes, obviously I agree with Goose that if we get to the Final Four and beyond, it should be a no-brainer to put #11 up there.

It's been so much fun watching Tyler Kolek play for Marquette. We've been so fortunate, as fans, to get to see him - and Oso - become what they've become and to bring our proud program back to life.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Nice summary.  He's an all-timer.  He'd have the program assist record if he had played 4 years here. 

It's hard to imagine our offense without him (and Oso) so really excited to see what they have in store for us this weekend.  Feeling confident we'll be playing on Easter for a chance to go to the Final Four. 

[YaBlueIt]

Let's pump the brakes a little... Tyler Kolek's legacy at MU is still being written.

[CTWarrior]

His legacy is that he will do whatever it takes to win.

Agree he is best MU player since Wade.  I also think Kam Jones is underappreciated given the love to Oso and Kolek.

[Elonsmusk]

Goose and I started a conversation in the SoG thread but I really think it deserves its own thread, so here we go.

I'll start with Goose's comment in that thread:

Goose and I have had quite a few conversations about this over the last couple of years, and I've repeatedly said that to truly be "great," in my eyes, a player has to deliver in the NCAA tournament. Some might say that's not fair - for example, it "eliminates" the likes of Markus Howard, Wes Matthews, etc - but that's just how I feel.

So I was withholding my judgment on Kolek to: "He's been great for the program, no question, but ... "

Well, on top of all the incredible, important things he's done for the program overall, Tyler now has delivered with two outstanding performances to carry us to the Sweet 16.

He did so after returning from an injury that was serious enough to keep him out of the Big East tournament. He did so despite getting relatively little help from his running mate, Oso. He did so without getting anything in the second half yesterday from Kam, who committed 4 dopey fouls to take himself out of the game. He did so by taking over a game we absolutely needed him to take over.

Add that to his remarkable run in the conference season last year, and in the 2023 Big East Tournament, and all this season.

Tyler arrived at Marquette a time that the program desperately needed a leader like him. He struggled some his first season, but he worked incredibly hard during the following offseason to turn himself into one of the very best players in the country.

He has unique court vision, passing ability and unselfishness. My main criticism of him is that sometimes he's too freakin' unselfish. Add in his swagger, and it's the complete package.

I'll agree with Goose about Kolek's importance to the program. To that end, I give a ton of credit to Shaka Smart. Kolek wasn't even the point guard at George Mason, yet Shaka saw in Tyler a kid who could be a great PG for Marquette. And of course Shaka and his assistants deserve credit for their role in Tyler's development into a two-time All-American.

Kolek already has had a better career than a couple players whose numbers hang in the rafters, so I hope he gets consideration for that even in the very unlikely event that we don't win any more games this season. But yes, obviously I agree with Goose that if we get to the Final Four and beyond, it should be a no-brainer to put #11 up there.

It's been so much fun watching Tyler Kolek play for Marquette. We've been so fortunate, as fans, to get to see him - and Oso - become what they've become and to bring our proud program back to life.

Great post 82.  And to think at one point in Year 1 at MU during his struggles, Shaka related a story of finding him crying on the floor in the locker room or somewhere - some of which was the byproduct of criticism from our fanbase saying he wasn't High Major caliber.  Wish I could find that link to that story or video.

This is a really special team.  The confluence of the talents of Tyler, Stevie, Kam and Oso and how complementary each are to each other - simply amazing.  Kam stepped up big time in Tyler's absence and has been arguable the best player in all of D-1 since February 1.  Stevie just makes winning play after winning play.  And Oso has been such a swiss army knife of talents.

Truly hope this group of kids reaches their ultimate goal of a Natty.  A fine group of young men, who have worked incredibly hard, and repped MU with great class.

[BrewCity83]

Let's not forget he's a two-time All American.

Rafter him!

[TallTitan34]

Retire 11!  (Again)

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Let's not forget he's a two-time All American.

Rafter him!

So was Markus - and Markus was consensus first team. I say that not because I think Markus was "better." I think Kolek is better. But what if they lose this weekend?  Is that really "rafter worthy?"

But is he like George Thompson? Thompson was never an All American and never got to the Final Four, but he was symbolic of the beginning of the Al-era. If Shaka is here awhile, and meets with continued success, does his number get retired because he was the start of this new era?

That being said, this is why programs should sit back and wait before making these decisions.

And yeah he has a better case than Doc Rivers no doubt. But you could say that about a number of players.

[Galway Eagle]

I think he needs one more to be in the discussion. As it stands Crowder was also BE POY, All American and in the sweet 16. Yes Tyler has the winning the BE success from last year crowder didn't but Jae had two years of March success Tyler doesn't. If Tyler gets to E8 I'll start hopping on the retire his number bandwagon. Anything past that is just solidifying it.

[TallTitan34]

But what if they lose this weekend?  Is that really "rafter worthy?"

Two-time Consensus All-American
Big East Player of the Year
Big East Regular Season Champion
Big East Tournament Champion
Big East Tournament MVP
NCAA Sweet Sixteen (hopefully more)
NCAA appearance every year
Second all-time in assists (possibly only because he didn't play four years here)

Anyone who can top that resume has their number retired.

[GoFastAndWin]

   Not to in any way take away from Chase Ross, as he was so huge for MU yesterday, but that play where he split the CO defenders and knifed through for the dunk was all set up by Kolek’s deception. I just saw the highlight and Tyler was so deliberate bringing the ball up. Had he turned up his speed and intent just a bit, the defense would’ve been put on alert for a potential fast break. His stealthy nonchalance lulled the Buffalo defenders into thinking Marquette was getting into a set. Chase took the cue and attacked.
    And of course, Mr Ross is one of the few players in the NCAA capable of splitting that seam in an instant and dunking. Beautiful to watch! Bravo Tyler and Chase!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

**Tyler is a one-time consensus second team. 2023 he was a mix of second and third team. (Markus was one of only five MU consensus first team All Americans, and the only one with Wade from the non-Al years.)

**And yes, like Jae and Markus, was BEPOY.

**Is a BE title and a S16 enough of a team accomplishment to make up for that?  I don't know.  Final Four or better? Most definitely.

Not saying no, but I think waiting out to see how his legacy develops is the better step.

[Goose]

TK's legacy is still being built upon and I hope he adds some additional chapters to his story at MU. That said, I do not think MU has had a player aside from Wade that has changed the narrative of MU basketball more than Kolek since the Al era. I would retire his jersey simply for delivering on the fxxk 'em line, but that is only part of his story.

I think there are too many numbers in the rafters, but TK and the guys make a deep run, I 100% believe 11 belongs hanging in the FF. His legacy as an all time MU great is cast in stone already for me, and I hope he and the team take away any doubt that he is an all great MU player over the next two weeks.

[Uncle Rico]

Never beat the Badgers. 

[DienerTime34]

Math for me is simple. Take us to the Final Four = retired jersey.

Less than that puts him with Jae Crowder/Markus Howard ... and there's no shame in that! In fact, maybe MU should have a Circle of Honor in the Al for folks just below the retired jersey level.

[WarriorFan]

If he....
- takes MU to the Natty averaging a double double in the tournament... hell yess
- Loses Natty averaging double double... yes
- final four averaging double double... probably yes
- anything less... time will judge

he doesn't deserve to end his career at MU on a loss, that's for sure.

I also think that 4 or 5 years from now there will be about 22 NBA teams really kicking themselves for not picking him, and one GM very happy that he did.  He's better than a few NBA starting point guards today.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I am of the opinion
“ You Ain’t Seen Nothin Yet”

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If he....
- takes MU to the Natty averaging a double double in the tournament... hell yess
- Loses Natty averaging double double... yes
- final four averaging double double... probably yes
- anything less... time will judge

he doesn't deserve to end his career at MU on a loss, that's for sure.

I also think that 4 or 5 years from now there will be about 22 NBA teams really kicking themselves for not picking him, and one GM very happy that he did.  He's better than a few NBA starting point guards today.

Agree on all counts. Well stated.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Retire 11 right after we retire 0

[Its DJOver]

Retire 11 right after we retire 0

Yep, they'll both get up there, no huge rush though.

[TallTitan34]

Retire 11 right after we retire 0

While I'm in the Markus and Tyler retirement camp, Jim Chones would be first on my list.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

While I'm in the Markus and Tyler retirement camp, Jim Chones would be first on my list.

I don't disagree,  I just don't see it happening after 50 years

[Shooter McGavin]

I think post season success needs to be a part of the equation at a school like Marquette, with high standards for what it means to be “great”.  Tyler has hit all the other marks needed so far and he is on his way to the finish line.  I do not doubt he will get it done.  I said it before the NCAA tournament if Kolek leads this team to the final four his banner will be waiting. 

[tower912]

Retire jerseys, not numbers.   Howard and Kolek both deserve it. 

[TallTitan34]

Retire jerseys, not numbers.   

This.