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Author Topic: Post Mortem from NY Post  (Read 7266 times)

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2024, 07:10:34 PM »
You keeping saying it...but nope. Game was over. Signed, sealed and delivered.

I'm going to asking this.  But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?
TAMU

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wisblue

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2024, 07:18:17 PM »
I looked up the PBP from that game last March. Here is the summary of the last 29 seconds after Mitchell made 2 FTs to put MU ahead 93-83. (Kolek had missed 2 FTs just before that.

The crowd was calling for Senior walk on Michael Kennedy, who was in the game, to get the ball for a shot.

:21. SJU makes 3 pointer  93-86.

:18 SJU steals inbound pass and makes 3 pointer 93-89. (I remember this shot being a rainbow fall away from the corner)

:16. Mitchell makes 2 FTs  95-89

:12. SJU makes 3 pointer and adds FT. 95-93. On the play Omax stumbled, tripped over the leg of a SJ player and fell into the shooter as he was banking in a 30 foot shot.

:11 Joplin misses 2 FTs.

:02. SJU misses shot but is fouled going for rebound. Makes first FT but misses second. 95-94.

:01 MUrebounds. Jones makes FT, misses second

:00 Final 96-94.

So, MU had a 10 point lead with 29 seconds left and SJ had a possession with 11 seconds left where they could have won with a 3.

Draw your own conclusion about whether an 8 point lead with a minute left means the game is over.



« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 07:35:28 PM by wisblue »

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2024, 07:24:08 PM »
I'm going to asking this.  But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?

I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.

Saturday's game was 100% over.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Goose

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2024, 07:28:37 PM »
This really is vintage Fluff stuff. Simply an amazing MU Scooper. He is simply a one of a kind personality.

wisblue

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2024, 07:29:26 PM »
https://youtu.be/DE1NOVXhT6s?si=ILn3_hF-XXllwjgZ

If you want to see the video of how this played out, just FF to near the end of this.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2024, 07:33:25 PM »
This really is vintage Fluff stuff. Simply an amazing MU Scooper. He is simply a one of a kind personality.

Thank you.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Goose

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2024, 07:36:53 PM »
Fluff

Huh?

wisblue

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2024, 07:45:16 PM »
https://youtu.be/DE1NOVXhT6s?si=ILn3_hF-XXllwjgZ

The TAM comeback down 12 with 44 seconds left.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2024, 07:59:47 PM »
I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.

Saturday's game was 100% over.

Factually it was not over. There was still time on the clock

If we are gonna be obnoxiously stubborn enough to throw out false percentages.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2024, 08:01:31 PM »
Factually it was not over. There was still time on the clock

If we are gonna be obnoxiously stubborn enough to throw out false percentages.


 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It was over.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

BallBoy

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2024, 08:02:05 PM »
I'm going to asking this.  But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?

MU is down 10 with 42 seconds against <insert favored opponent> on the road in a regular season game. <insert star player> blows out his knee trying to “play it out” and is done for the season and MU loses first round of the tourney. Was it worth it?

Most college coaches pull back the horses when it is out of reach so they can fight another day.

Now compare that to most of the examples provided. If you are in the tournament and you lose your season is done anyway. The risk/probability of injury justifies a hard push to the end. You can’t do that for every game.

The St John’s game last year was on Sr day and they put Kennedy in with 30 seconds to play because he was the only sr. That threw MU’s entire defense/offense out of whack.  I don’t think they got him out until the second three.  That doesn’t happen in every game and the result still had St John’s losing.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2024, 08:03:53 PM »

 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

It was over.

Its actually how TK got 27 point instead of 24.

Game continued on

 8-)
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

BallBoy

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2024, 08:19:10 PM »
Went back and watched the game again.  The fans had been cheering to bring in Kennedy. Shaka sent him in between two misses from Kolek at the line up 8.

Mitchell steals the ball and was trying to get it to Kennedy to shoot but is fouled. Mitchell makes both FTs. MU up 10. St John’s comes down the court and Kennedy has no idea what to do and leaves St John’s open for a 3. MU tries to quickly inbound in an attempt to get Kennedy a shot. St John’s hits tip toe shot in the corner.

MU is up 4 with 16 left and every is booing Shaka for taking Kennedy out.


TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2024, 09:31:45 PM »
I have no idea, and don't care one bit because it's irrelevant.

Saturday's game was 100% over.

I was correct,  i did regret it
TAMU

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Galway Eagle

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2024, 10:14:20 PM »
This is getting to old Ners levels of late.
Maigh Eo for Sam

wisblue

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2024, 10:25:33 PM »
Went back and watched the game again.  The fans had been cheering to bring in Kennedy. Shaka sent him in between two misses from Kolek at the line up 8.

Mitchell steals the ball and was trying to get it to Kennedy to shoot but is fouled. Mitchell makes both FTs. MU up 10. St John’s comes down the court and Kennedy has no idea what to do and leaves St John’s open for a 3. MU tries to quickly inbound in an attempt to get Kennedy a shot. St John’s hits tip toe shot in the corner.

MU is up 4 with 16 left and every is booing Shaka for taking Kennedy out.


Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with the 2 threes SJ made to cut the lead from 10 to 4.

And players are just as likely to get injured in practice as in the last minute of a game that has turned into intentional fouls and quick 3 point shots or uncontested drives to the basket.

MU82

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2024, 10:55:54 PM »
I'm going to asking this.  But was the game over when TAMU was down 10 with 42 seconds left against Northern Iowa in the 2016 NCAAT?

Facts no matta when there’s a hill to die on.

Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 11:36:03 PM by MU82 »
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

BallBoy

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2024, 11:16:34 PM »

Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with the 2 threes SJ made to cut the lead from 10 to 4.

And players are just as likely to get injured in practice as in the last minute of a game that has turned into intentional fouls and quick 3 point shots or uncontested drives to the basket.

https://youtu.be/DFff-o6kFR8?si=nVmvD26p_Glp8r5F

Start at the 1:13:30 mark. Prior to this St John’s had pretty much given up. At this point St John’s is bringing the ball up with OMax guarding the ball handler. Kennedy is standing 20ft away from his man who brush screens OMax off the ball handler putting him a step behind. Kennedy is directly in the path and he gives up at least 5 ft back pedaling into the lane with no defensive pressure on the ball. Mitchell at this point needs to help contain and starts to collapse on the ball handler who passes it back out. Bang. 1st three.  You can also see Kolek coming off his man in the corner to help out. He was out of position and then didn’t commit to anything.

For the next inbounds play he basically is out of the picture but the crowd was begging the players to get him the ball to score so Kolek tries to quickly get the ball in to get it up the court. He didn’t see Jones who hits a circus shot. Remember, I said he was out of the picture well guess who comes running into the frame bringing his defender right into the bench side corner where…

Next inbounds ball gets to Mitchell in the corner Kennedy is back pedaling away from the ball along the sideline in a position a player would normally look to make a clearance pass. Mitchell looks at him and proceeds to look elsewhere before getting trapped in the corner and calling a timeout.  He is probably 15 ft away from Mitchell and guess whose man came to double team Mitchell. You guessed it.  Kennedy’s.

During this whole sequence it was basically 5-4.  When you give up two threes in 11 seconds it changes the game.

Kennedy should never have been in the game but Shaka was trying to appease the faithful and give him 36.6 seconds.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2024, 11:28:53 PM by BallBoy »

CountryRoads

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2024, 11:16:46 PM »
Most teams extend the game there, but MU broke their will to compete. They took their best player out. They quit. Would be pretty upset if MU did that.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2024, 04:04:10 AM »
Facts no matta when there’s a hill to die on.

Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.


Nope. Wrong again. Got the drama turned up to 11 I see.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

lawdog77

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #70 on: February 13, 2024, 04:34:06 AM »
Facts no matta when there’s a hill to die on.

Buzz shoulda packed it in against Davidson because the game was 100% over. And yes, that TAMU game was 100% over. 100%! They shoulda just quit.
Is it 100% over if the players aren't giving 110%? I'm not good at math.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2024, 05:32:34 AM »
By all means, keep at it guys. I’m sure you’ll convince him one of these posts. You’re so close. I’m sure of it.
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.

wisblue

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2024, 05:39:41 AM »
https://youtu.be/DFff-o6kFR8?si=nVmvD26p_Glp8r5F

Start at the 1:13:30 mark. Prior to this St John’s had pretty much given up. At this point St John’s is bringing the ball up with OMax guarding the ball handler. Kennedy is standing 20ft away from his man who brush screens OMax off the ball handler putting him a step behind. Kennedy is directly in the path and he gives up at least 5 ft back pedaling into the lane with no defensive pressure on the ball. Mitchell at this point needs to help contain and starts to collapse on the ball handler who passes it back out. Bang. 1st three.  You can also see Kolek coming off his man in the corner to help out. He was out of position and then didn’t commit to anything.

For the next inbounds play he basically is out of the picture but the crowd was begging the players to get him the ball to score so Kolek tries to quickly get the ball in to get it up the court. He didn’t see Jones who hits a circus shot. Remember, I said he was out of the picture well guess who comes running into the frame bringing his defender right into the bench side corner where…

Next inbounds ball gets to Mitchell in the corner Kennedy is back pedaling away from the ball along the sideline in a position a player would normally look to make a clearance pass. Mitchell looks at him and proceeds to look elsewhere before getting trapped in the corner and calling a timeout.  He is probably 15 ft away from Mitchell and guess whose man came to double team Mitchell. You guessed it.  Kennedy’s.

During this whole sequence it was basically 5-4.  When you give up two threes in 11 seconds it changes the game.

Kennedy should never have been in the game but Shaka was trying to appease the faithful and give him 36.6 seconds.

If you look above, I already watched and posted the link to this video.

Your description blaming this on Kennedy is factually wrong.

On the first 3 Kennedy backpedals on a guy driving into the lane, correctly not wanting to foul. The ball is kicked out to a player who hits a 3. No big deal, MU still up 7 with 20 seconds left. But, if anyone made a mistake there, it was Mitchell collapsing off his man at the 3 point line to help out against someone who at worst could have made a layup. Guarding against the 3 would have made more sense.

On the inbound pass, Kennedy is out of the picture, taking a SJ player with him, so it is essentially 4 on 4 in the front court. Kolek throws in to Oso, who doesn’t go aggressively to the ball and a SJ defender strips it away and makes the circus shot from the corner. Kolek was not rushing the inbound pass to get the ball up court. He was trying to get it in before SJ could set up a press, which is pretty common practice.

And on the next inbound play, Mitchell does not call timeout. He is trapped in the corner and is fouled. Kennedy comes out of the game while Mitchell makes his two free throws.

In MUs game against Butler, MU fouled down by 8 with 30 seconds left. So apparently Shaka disagrees with the idea that continuing to play hard and extend the game is putting the team’s postseason prospects at risk.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2024, 06:39:54 AM by wisblue »

MU82

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2024, 07:27:19 AM »

Nope. Wrong again. Got the drama turned up to 11 I see.

Facts = “drama”
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BallBoy

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Re: Post Mortem from NY Post
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2024, 07:27:31 AM »
If you look above, I already watched and posted the link to this video.

Your description blaming this on Kennedy is factually wrong.

On the first 3 Kennedy backpedals on a guy driving into the lane, correctly not wanting to foul. The ball is kicked out to a player who hits a 3. No big deal, MU still up 7 with 20 seconds left. But, if anyone made a mistake there, it was Mitchell collapsing off his man at the 3 point line to help out against someone who at worst could have made a layup. Guarding against the 3 would have made more sense.

On the inbound pass, Kennedy is out of the picture, taking a SJ player with him, so it is essentially 4 on 4 in the front court. Kolek throws in to Oso, who doesn’t go aggressively to the ball and a SJ defender strips it away and makes the circus shot from the corner. Kolek was not rushing the inbound pass to get the ball up court. He was trying to get it in before SJ could set up a press, which is pretty common practice.

And on the next inbound play, Mitchell does not call timeout. He is trapped in the corner and is fouled. Kennedy comes out of the game while Mitchell makes his two free throws.

In MUs game against Butler, MU fouled down by 8 with 30 seconds left. So apparently Shaka disagrees with the idea that continuing to play hard and extend the game is putting the team’s postseason prospects at risk.

Mistake 1: he should have been up next to his man so he could step out and apply some pressure on the ball. Had he been OMax would have recovered. He was 20 ft away.

Mistake 2: he is in no man’s land and doesn’t commit to stopping the ball. Instead gives up more ground letting the ball hander get into the heart of the defense.  I believe it was Addae-Wusu who goes from basically the half court stripe to the free throw line without anyone making him change direction. At that point defense is exposed.  Who should picked him up? if he picked him up at the three point line A-W would have had to run some offense or taken a contested three.

Mistake 3: since he back pedaled so much and applied no defensive pressure very little time came off the clock before their first score. 

You said he wasn’t involved with the first two threes. Those three things lead to the first three without them actually having to play half court offense. You can say Mitchell was to blame but if you notice Kolek also comes to the ball leaving his man too.

You can hear it in the crowd, no big deal just one three so get the ball to Kennedy to shoot.  He was going the court to get to a spot.

Mistake 4: the job of the team with the lead is take as much time off of the clock as possible. When Mitchell is in the corner the ball should have gone to Kennedy who could have taken the ball to at least half court. The problem is he is moving away from the ball which makes for a very dangerous pass.

Those are all facts that are factually correct.

Here is another fact in no other game then Sr Day with 36.6 seconds is he in the game up 10 and his presence impacted the game. maybe it just pissed SJ’s off enough to care but his lack of defense caused the first three directly.