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Author Topic: Stages of MU fandom  (Read 4570 times)

tower912

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Stages of MU fandom
« on: February 08, 2024, 03:59:45 PM »
1.  During recruiting.   Gottahavehimohmygod.
2.  Signing day.   He could start as a freshman
3.  When actually a freshman.   He sucks.  Waste of a scholarship.   Better recruit over him.
4.  Sophomore year.   Not a star yet.   Hit the transfer portal to recruit over him
5.  Junior year.  He is starting to impress me.  Underappreciated.  Can't wait until next year.
6.  Senior year.   OMG, how will we replace him?  Next year will be a disaster.   This is all the coach's fault.

5 years later.   A legend.   MU needs to recruit more players like him.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2024, 04:02:55 PM »
1.  During recruiting.   Gottahavehimohmygod.
2.  Signing day.   He could start as a freshman
3.  When actually a freshman.   He sucks.  Waste of a scholarship.   Better recruit over him.
4.  Sophomore year.   Not a star yet.   Hit the transfer portal to recruit over him
5.  Junior year.  He is starting to impress me.  Underappreciated.  Can't wait until next year.
6.  Senior year.   OMG, how will we replace him?  Next year will be a disaster.   This is all the coach's fault.

5 years later.   A legend.   MU needs to recruit more players like him.

And this is why Shaka is the unnamed coach unhappy with his current situation
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Pepe Sylvia

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2024, 04:17:30 PM »
To be fair, I was in the same freshman class as the 3 amigos, and then Lazar came the next year, so I was a little spoiled and it took me a little while to learn to be patient.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2024, 04:45:26 PM »
I was trying to go year by year of players who defied this by meeting or exceeding expectations and it's comical how wrong we are when we don't hate a freshman player

Defied Freshman: Duane, Haanif, Steve, Dawson Garcia, Henry, Sam, Markus, Justin, Cam, Joey, Davante

Sophomore: Vander, Justin, Sam, Markus, Cam, Stevie.

Junior: Oso Tyler Markus Sam Cam Stevie (unless you're Willie)
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TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2024, 06:53:17 PM »
I was trying to go year by year of players who defied this by meeting or exceeding expectations and it's comical how wrong we are when we don't hate a freshman player

Defied Freshman: Duane, Haanif, Steve, Dawson Garcia, Henry, Sam, Markus, Justin, Cam, Joey, Davante

Sophomore: Vander, Justin, Sam, Markus, Cam, Stevie.

Junior: Oso Tyler Markus Sam Cam Stevie (unless you're Willie)
Kam
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2024, 06:55:22 PM »
Kam

I was talking about Marotta but sure we can add Kam as well.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2024, 06:00:11 AM »
1.  During recruiting.   Gottahavehimohmygod.
2.  Signing day.   He could start as a freshman
3.  When actually a freshman.   He sucks.  Waste of a scholarship.   Better recruit over him.
4.  Sophomore year.   Not a star yet.   Hit the transfer portal to recruit over him
5.  Junior year.  He is starting to impress me.  Underappreciated.  Can't wait until next year.
6.  Senior year.   OMG, how will we replace him?  Next year will be a disaster.   This is all the coach's fault.

5 years later.   A legend.   MU needs to recruit more players like him.

10/10 no notes

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2024, 06:47:34 AM »
Change it to stages of any college fandom and you are on to something.

Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2024, 10:15:09 AM »
1.  During recruiting.   Gottahavehimohmygod.
2.  Signing day.   He could start as a freshman
3.  When actually a freshman.   He sucks.  Waste of a scholarship.   Better recruit over him.
4.  Sophomore year.   Not a star yet.   Hit the transfer portal to recruit over him
5.  Junior year.  He is starting to impress me.  Underappreciated.  Can't wait until next year.
6.  Senior year.   OMG, how will we replace him?  Next year will be a disaster.   This is all the coach's fault.

5 years later.   A legend.   MU needs to recruit more players like him.
No dung mention? Weak
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muwarrior69

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2024, 10:56:32 AM »
Hmm...we old guys knew all of Al's recruits would impact the program be it the star or role player at some point in their career at MU.


tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2024, 11:01:49 AM »
A different time.   No freshmen.   No early departure.  Transfers had to sit. The only way to turn a program around in a year was the JUCO route.  It was accepted that players would progress and be better by the time they were seniors.
   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

BCHoopster

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2024, 11:38:36 AM »
A different time.   No freshmen.   No early departure.  Transfers had to sit. The only way to turn a program around in a year was the JUCO route.  It was accepted that players would progress and be better by the time they were seniors.


For Al, he got 4 Juco kids that made a huge difference, no difference today, the portal,  Whitehead, Walton, Lackey
 And Boylan.  Add a few HS All-Americans and you have a team that was in the top 10 for 10 years

Pepe Sylvia

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2024, 11:43:25 AM »
A different time.   No freshmen.   No early departure.  Transfers had to sit. The only way to turn a program around in a year was the JUCO route.  It was accepted that players would progress and be better by the time they were seniors.
 

Tell jim Chones there was no early departure.
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tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2024, 11:46:24 AM »
He made history and people are still bitter 50 years later.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2024, 11:53:26 AM »
A different time.   No freshmen.   No early departure.  Transfers had to sit. The only way to turn a program around in a year was the JUCO route.  It was accepted that players would progress and be better by the time they were seniors.
 

Definitely. Then was then. Now is now. Hell, Al tried to get out of his contract to take the Milwaukee Bucks job, and the Jesuits said no. Try forcing a coach to honor his contract today.   ?-(  Times have changed radically, first for coaches and then for players who coaches thought should be held to different standards than themselves.
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BCHoopster

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2024, 11:55:27 AM »
He made history and people are still bitter 50 years later.


Yes Al could have let him play another month or so, Chones did not want to leave, money would have been there after the season

Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2024, 01:26:26 PM »
Definitely. Then was then. Now is now. Hell, Al tried to get out of his contract to take the Milwaukee Bucks job, and the Jesuits said no. Try forcing a coach to honor his contract today.   ?-(  Times have changed radically, first for coaches and then for players who coaches thought should be held to different standards than themselves.
Pace of play was way slower most of the time
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muwarrior69

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2024, 01:56:46 PM »
A different time.   No freshmen.   No early departure.  Transfers had to sit. The only way to turn a program around in a year was the JUCO route.  It was accepted that players would progress and be better by the time they were seniors.
 

No doubt, but there is something to be said about the system enforcing continuity of the program. Today there are no rules. Yet Shaka is like a salmon swimming up stream trying to create continuity in a program like they did years ago. It will be interesting to see if he can succeed with that approach as many here criticize him for not going into the transfer market to fill in some missing pieces.

muwarrior69

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2024, 01:59:39 PM »
Pace of play was way slower most of the time

...and we won a National Championship.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2024, 02:00:37 PM »
...and we won a National Championship.

It was a different time
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Scoop Snoop

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2024, 02:13:39 PM »
...and we won a National Championship.

Ironically, one of the reasons that we won the natty was the UNC's coach love affair with his "4 corners offense", a fancy name for bringing the game to a screeching halt with a lead as long as the opponent was unable to force a turnover in the "no shot clock" era. Didn't end well for UNC vs. Marquette.

I admit that for selfish reasons, I liked the (virtually) no transfer era, but today's reality is so much fairer to a player who may fit better with another team/coach, improve his draft stock, make some NIL money, etc. I also liked the coaches being held to their contract (especially Al) but again...for selfish reasons.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2024, 02:16:31 PM by Scoop Snoop »
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

avid1010

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2024, 02:14:09 PM »
Might need to add a stage where a sophomore or junior is thrown under the bus in the suggested replacement of the freshmen who has not yet played real minutes but looked good against st. Mary's of the poor.

I do think there is a definite pattern of Shaka going after kids who haven't played a lifetime of basketball...

Elonsmusk

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2024, 02:40:20 PM »
And this is why Shaka is the unnamed coach unhappy with his current situation

Is this another attempt to be funny, or is this rumor circulating?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2024, 02:55:41 PM »
Is this another attempt to be funny, or is this rumor circulating?

Trilly Donovan reporting one unexpected Big East coach is unhappy in his current situation and if Shaka has been exposed to Scoop, it’s easy to deduce he would be unhappy
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Oldgym

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2024, 02:56:01 PM »
Is this another attempt to be funny, or is this rumor circulating?

It's Rico it's Rico.

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2024, 03:00:27 PM »
Bravo.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

cheebs09

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2024, 03:15:17 PM »
Trilly Donovan reporting one unexpected Big East coach is unhappy in his current situation and if Shaka has been exposed to Scoop, it’s easy to deduce he would be unhappy


Is it possible he reads Scoop and sold his Disney stock? He's upset he took that advice and cost him lots of money?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2024, 03:20:57 PM »

Is it possible he reads Scoop and sold his Disney stock? He's upset he took that advice and cost him lots of money?

Could be.  Scoop chasing Shaka away.  Sad!
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2024, 03:22:19 PM »

Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2024, 03:22:43 PM »
It is all because of Lovell, Shaka hates him.
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BrewCity83

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2024, 03:31:10 PM »
Well, it's that and the fact that Shaka hitched his wagon to Stevie, who we all now know is dung.
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mug644

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2024, 07:07:06 PM »

Yes Al could have let him play another month or so, Chones did not want to leave, money would have been there after the season

One thing I've always wondered about the way Chones' departure happened. There is no doubt that money was be passed to players in that era, and I choose to accept that it likely happened at MU like it did at UCLA and elsewhere. How was there not some cash around that would help Jim and his family make it through the next few months? I get that he had a time-limited ABA contract offer, but surely he would've had another one, and/or one from the NBA a few months later. MU surely would've benefited, and Chones himself may have earned a bigger contract by being a key part of what could've been a national championship team. I suppose that idea of taking immediate money rather than risking injury could be valid, but that would surprise me.

Thoughts?

Galway Eagle

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2024, 07:15:52 PM »
One thing I've always wondered about the way Chones' departure happened. There is no doubt that money was be passed to players in that era, and I choose to accept that it likely happened at MU like it did at UCLA and elsewhere. How was there not some cash around that would help Jim and his family make it through the next few months? I get that he had a time-limited ABA contract offer, but surely he would've had another one, and/or one from the NBA a few months later. MU surely would've benefited, and Chones himself may have earned a bigger contract by being a key part of what could've been a national championship team. I suppose that idea of taking immediate money rather than risking injury could be valid, but that would surprise me.

Thoughts?

I've always said this but the people who were around back then just quote Al's statement about Chones' refrigerator.
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Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2024, 07:28:56 PM »
I've always said this but the people who were around back then just quote Al's statement about Chones' refrigerator.
It was sort of a crazy amount for the time
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2024, 07:43:03 PM »
One thing I've always wondered about the way Chones' departure happened. There is no doubt that money was be passed to players in that era, and I choose to accept that it likely happened at MU like it did at UCLA and elsewhere. How was there not some cash around that would help Jim and his family make it through the next few months? I get that he had a time-limited ABA contract offer, but surely he would've had another one, and/or one from the NBA a few months later. MU surely would've benefited, and Chones himself may have earned a bigger contract by being a key part of what could've been a national championship team. I suppose that idea of taking immediate money rather than risking injury could be valid, but that would surprise me.

Thoughts?

https://vault.si.com/vault/1972/02/28/because-a-steering-wheel-didnt-tilt

mug644

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2024, 07:54:01 PM »
https://vault.si.com/vault/1972/02/28/because-a-steering-wheel-didnt-tilt

Never saw that! Very insightful and pretty much from the horse's mouth. Thanks, Dr. Blackheart.

It will stop me from wondering about why he left. Of course, I'll keep wondering about what MU would've done that season if he had stayed.

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2024, 10:37:44 AM »
1.  National championship, here we come.
2.  We are entitled to a national championship.
3.  MU wins:  See? 
4.  MU loses:  OMG.  Worst team ever.  Coach/player/rwcruiting/poster/scoop all suck.    Let me mewl in peace.
5.  MU bounces back with a win:   MU still sucks.   Wins don't matter.   Only my pain from losses matters.
6.  Anybody who disagrees with my pain is an a-hole.
7.   What is our seed going to be?   OMG, everybody hates MU!   
8.  MU vs everybody!   I love this team.   Anybody who loves MU differently than me is an a-hole.   Haters!
9.  Tourney time!   National Championship, here we come!
10.  MU loses:   lather, rinse, repeat.

Me:   Thanks for sharing the journey and making me laugh.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2024, 11:01:56 AM »
Can't shoot, Gard owns Shaka, can't beat UConn this year. Refs sux, NCAA committee should be dismissed, the world hates MU. I'm just going to get drunk again.
Goal is National Championship

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2024, 11:31:48 AM »
Dammit.  Nice job.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Judge Smails

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2024, 11:32:42 AM »
Dung

Viper

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2024, 11:39:08 AM »
Can't shoot, Gard owns Shaka, can't beat UConn this year. Refs sux, NCAA committee should be dismissed, the world hates MU. I'm just going to get drunk again.
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wisblue

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2024, 12:56:37 PM »
1.  National championship, here we come.
2.  We are entitled to a national championship.
3.  MU wins:  See? 
4.  MU loses:  OMG.  Worst team ever.  Coach/player/rwcruiting/poster/scoop all suck.    Let me mewl in peace.
5.  MU bounces back with a win:   MU still sucks.   Wins don't matter.   Only my pain from losses matters.
6.  Anybody who disagrees with my pain is an a-hole.
7.   What is our seed going to be?   OMG, everybody hates MU!   
8.  MU vs everybody!   I love this team.   Anybody who loves MU differently than me is an a-hole.   Haters!
9.  Tourney time!   National Championship, here we come!
10.  MU loses:   lather, rinse, repeat.

Me:   Thanks for sharing the journey and making me laugh.
it must be great to feel superior to everyone else. Congtaulations. 

PointWarrior

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2024, 12:59:47 PM »
Well, they were the worst team ever yesterday. 



1.  National championship, here we come.
2.  We are entitled to a national championship.
3.  MU wins:  See? 
4.  MU loses:  OMG.  Worst team ever.  Coach/player/rwcruiting/poster/scoop all suck.    Let me mewl in peace.
5.  MU bounces back with a win:   MU still sucks.   Wins don't matter.   Only my pain from losses matters.
6.  Anybody who disagrees with my pain is an a-hole.
7.   What is our seed going to be?   OMG, everybody hates MU!   
8.  MU vs everybody!   I love this team.   Anybody who loves MU differently than me is an a-hole.   Haters!
9.  Tourney time!   National Championship, here we come!
10.  MU loses:   lather, rinse, repeat.

Me:   Thanks for sharing the journey and making me laugh.

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2024, 01:04:06 PM »
it must be great to feel superior to everyone else. Congtaulations. 
Nobody says superior like a wolverine fan.   Go, Green.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

wisblue

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2024, 01:17:56 PM »
Nobody says superior like a wolverine fan.   Go, Green.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. But OK.


warriorfred

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2024, 01:30:54 PM »
Can't shoot, Gard owns Shaka, can't beat UConn this year. Refs sux, NCAA committee should be dismissed, the world hates MU. I'm just going to get drunk again.

I support this because it is all true.

wisblue

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2024, 01:34:54 PM »
Well, they were the worst team ever yesterday.

Thinking that MU fans as a group are different than fans of any other program is myopic.

Every team has fans who are never happy and some who are not happy unless they are criticizing other fans who react to things differently than they do.

warriorfred

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2024, 01:36:23 PM »
Thinking that MU fans as a group are different than fans of any other program is myopic.

Every team has fans who are never happy and some who are not happy unless they are criticizing other fans who react to things differently than they do.

I also support this because it is all true.

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2024, 01:37:17 PM »
Yes.   All expressing their opinion.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

warriorfred

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2024, 01:42:09 PM »
I like being entitled to my own opinion.

tower912

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2024, 01:43:32 PM »
I feel insulted and hurt that Wisblue is criticizing my opinion.


Nope.  Can't say it with a straight face.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 01:49:31 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

warriorfred

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2024, 01:48:36 PM »
I'm pretty sure that when I clicked "yes" on the MUSCOOP Terms of Service many years ago I was explicitly agreeing that everyone (including myself) is an idiot. 

Newsdreams

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2024, 05:14:27 PM »
I like being entitled to my own opinion.
You seem very entitled
Goal is National Championship

warriorfred

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2024, 05:52:16 PM »
Entitled to my own idiotic opinions, and the enjoyment of other idiotic opinions courtesy of MUSCOOP.

But I honestly enjoy the comments, thoughts, reflections, analysis, and opinions of others.  Occasionally I learn, many times I laugh, and mostly I am grateful.

Thank you.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2024, 06:31:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure that when I clicked "yes" on the MUSCOOP Terms of Service many years ago I was explicitly agreeing that everyone (including myself) is an idiot.

Essentially, yes.

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dgies9156

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2024, 08:54:19 PM »
One thing I've always wondered about the way Chones' departure happened.
Thoughts?

Here's what I understand about it. Brother Goose probably knows more than anyone, but here's what I've read and seen over the years.

Mr. Chones was an incredible talent. In fact, he probably was the second best player ever to play for Marquette behind DWade. In February 1972, we were undefeated and winning, often convincingly. We were on our way to maybe challenging UCLA for a Natty. Think Indiana in 1976. We were THAT good.

At the same time, the ABA and NBA were engaged in a talent war, just as the NFL and AFL were in the 1960s. The ABA was an upstart basketball league and there wasn't the discipline about recruiting and signing college talent that there is today. At the time, Mr. Chones averaged 20.5 points and 11.9 rebounds per game for Marquette. Mr. Chones was the second early signing ever by professional basketball.

In those days, there was no NIL and players could not have agents. Coach McGuire knew about the offer to Mr. Chones. Coach McGuire and Mr. Chones went to Racine to speak with Mr. Chones' father. There's a lot of urban legend around what was actually said but the consensus  was that Mr. Chones should sign with the ABA. The view was that the ABA/NBA war would soon be settled and the level of incentive for Mr. Chones to turn pro would soon be far less than what was offered. Coach McGuire, to his credit, put the person above the institution, though I suspect Coach Al thought he could win no matter what.

Mr. Chones signed with the ABA the week of February 20, 1972. On Saturday, February 26, 1972, Marquette traveled to Detroit to play what's now known as Detroit Mercy. We were blown out 70-49. We subsequently lost a second road game to New Mexico State in early March and were soundly defeated at one of our favorite places -- the UD Arena -- by Kentucky and Adolph the Bigot. That was the NCAA tournament where Bob Lackey's eligibility was question, largely as a side show for Coach Rupp.

UCLA won the national title that year.

The "bitterness" 52 years later has more to do with what could have been. Had Mr. Chones stayed, we would have wasted Kentucky and wiped the floor with anyone in the region. As it was, Florida State was the national runner-up and they came from the same Mideast Regional we did. UCLA had Sophomore Bill Walton and was undefeated. Had Mr. Chones stayed, most of us believe that we and UCLA both would have been undefeated going into the NCAA Championship.

It would have been a great match-up.

Many of us also believe that had Mr. Chones stayed for four years, Marquette would have been virtually invincible in 1972-1973. We had Larry McNeill, who later signed a pro contract, and a young Maurice Lucas, to go with Allie McGuire, Sugar Frazier and Marcus Washington. Earl Tatum rode the bench that year as a freshman. We were 25-4 that year and could well have been 31-0 and national champions.

To the question of whether Marquette was cheating on recruiting, there's no way of ever knowing. Anyone involved in the recruiting process in the 1960s and 1970s probably is dead and dead men tell no tales. I'm skeptical Marquette did because too many people hated us in those days and the NCAA was crawling up the bowels of the Old Gym! Keep in mind that Marquette was one of a comparatively few high-profile universities that actively recruited, coached up and started African-American ballplayers. This was especially true from Coach McGuire's first season in 1964-1965 through the mid-1970s. UCLA clearly was another and North Carolina ultimately became a third.






muwarrior69

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2024, 08:57:19 PM »
Here's what I understand about it. Brother Goose probably knows more than anyone, but here's what I've read and seen over the years.

Mr. Chones was an incredible talent. In fact, he probably was the second best player ever to play for Marquette behind DWade. In February 1972, we were undefeated and winning, often convincingly. We were on our way to maybe challenging UCLA for a Natty. Think Indiana in 1976. We were THAT good.

At the same time, the ABA and NBA were engaged in a talent war, just as the NFL and AFL were in the 1960s. The ABA was an upstart basketball league and there wasn't the discipline about recruiting and signing college talent that there is today. At the time, Mr. Chones averaged 20.5 points and 11.9 rebounds per game for Marquette. Mr. Chones was the second early signing ever by professional basketball.

In those days, there was no NIL and players could not have agents. Coach McGuire knew about the offer to Mr. Chones. Coach McGuire and Mr. Chones went to Racine to speak with Mr. Chones' father. There's a lot of urban legend around what was actually said but the consensus  was that Mr. Chones should sign with the ABA. The view was that the ABA/NBA war would soon be settled and the level of incentive for Mr. Chones to turn pro would soon be far less than what was offered. Coach McGuire, to his credit, put the person above the institution, though I suspect Coach Al thought he could win no matter what.

Mr. Chones signed with the ABA the week of February 20, 1972. On Saturday, February 26, 1972, Marquette traveled to Detroit to play what's now known as Detroit Mercy. We were blown out 70-49. We subsequently lost a second road game to New Mexico State in early March and were soundly defeated at one of our favorite places -- the UD Arena -- by Kentucky and Adolph the Bigot. That was the NCAA tournament where Bob Lackey's eligibility was question, largely as a side show for Coach Rupp.

UCLA won the national title that year.

The "bitterness" 52 years later has more to do with what could have been. Had Mr. Chones stayed, we would have wasted Kentucky and wiped the floor with anyone in the region. As it was, Florida State was the national runner-up and they came from the same Mideast Regional we did. UCLA had Sophomore Bill Walton and was undefeated. Had Mr. Chones stayed, most of us believe that we and UCLA both would have been undefeated going into the NCAA Championship.

It would have been a great match-up.

Many of us also believe that had Mr. Chones stayed for four years, Marquette would have been virtually invincible in 1972-1973. We had Larry McNeill, who later signed a pro contract, and a young Maurice Lucas, to go with Allie McGuire, Sugar Frazier and Marcus Washington. Earl Tatum rode the bench that year as a freshman. We were 25-4 that year and could well have been 31-0 and national champions.

To the question of whether Marquette was cheating on recruiting, there's no way of ever knowing. Anyone involved in the recruiting process in the 1960s and 1970s probably is dead and dead men tell no tales. I'm skeptical Marquette did because too many people hated us in those days and the NCAA was crawling up the bowels of the Old Gym! Keep in mind that Marquette was one of a comparatively few high-profile universities that actively recruited, coached up and started African-American ballplayers. This was especially true from Coach McGuire's first season in 1964-1965 through the mid-1970s. UCLA clearly was another and North Carolina ultimately became a third.

Don't forget UTEP in '66.

dgies9156

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2024, 09:01:30 PM »
Don't forget UTEP in '66.

UTEP was a one-year fluke and was not able to sustain the level of excellence we did from 1967 until 1980.

Yes, what UTEP did in 1966 was one for the books, as was what Loyola of Chicago did in 1963. But it's important to note that among consistent blue bloods of the day, Marquette and UCLA usually won with African-American athletes. African-American basketball players were truly welcomed by both programs and both schools started the five best players available without regard to skin color.

And they won!!!!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2024, 07:58:43 AM by dgies9156 »

wisblue

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2024, 10:40:26 PM »
I feel insulted and hurt that Wisblue is criticizing my opinion.


Nope.  Can't say it with a straight face.

I don’t expect you to be insulted or hurt.

Just expressing my opinion about your style when you choose to deviate from opinions about basketball and instead criticize and ridicule how others express themselves.


« Last Edit: February 18, 2024, 10:55:50 PM by wisblue »

muwarrior69

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Re: Stages of MU fandom
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2024, 11:04:35 AM »
UTEP was a one-year fluke and was not able to sustain the level of excellence we did from 1967 until 1980.

Yes, what UTEP did in 1966 was one for the books, as was what Loyola of Chicago did in 1963. But it's important to note that among consistent blue bloods of the day, Marquette and UCLA usually won with African-American athletes. African-American basketball players were truly welcomed by both programs and both schools started the five best players available without regard to skin color.

And they won!!!!

Marquette was no Blue Blood back in '66 nor was UCLA with NCAA titles in 64 and 65. UK had won 4 titles but no black players. San Francisco won 2 titles, the first with 3 black starters. Cincinnati also won 2 with black players prior to '66. I am not sure what a Blue Blood is prior to 1966. As for winning, yes UCLA dominated the sport from '64 through '75. Few other schools were winning, but had black players with the exception of some schools in the deep south. UTEP set the tone when it came to race in college ball and won a NC. I guess others could say Marquette is a fluke as well as we only have one NC as well.

 

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