Sean Jones

[Its DJOver]

I don't give a crap about getting called out.  I'm an adult and can admit when I'm wrong.

Yep, I was wrong.  Happy?

It seems like you give a crap about getting called out because you're getting pretty defensive about it, but it also seems like you'd like to move on.

Tre hasn't met your expectations as of yet.  Nothing wrong with having that opinion, I just disagree with where that expectation level should be.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

It seems like you give a crap about getting called out because you're getting pretty defensive about it, but it also seems like you'd like to move on.

Tre hasn't met your expectations as of yet.  Nothing wrong with having that opinion, I just disagree with where that expectation level should be.

"Have a nice day. -Bon Jovi-"
-Juan Anderson's Mixtape

[Its DJOver]

Mixtape made a fair comparison of two similarly ranked freshman players coming out of high school.

Djo made a bad comparison (imo) initially. No one predicted Jerel would be second leading scorer in school history as a freshman. He was simply a valued contributor his first year. Tre isn't that yet, but with his role about to expand, he has a golden opportunity to prove the doubters wrong.

Sorry to delve into low level pedantics. snow day sadness

We made the same comparison, how is one fair and one bad?

[Jay Bee]

https://twitter.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554

#1 NBA Draft picks: Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero

McDonald's All-Americans: Isaiah Briscoe, B.J. Boston, Simi Shittu, Keldon Johnson, Cam Reddish

We're looking at per game averages these days? Yikes

[panda]

We made the same comparison, how is one fair and one bad?

I don't think it's too far fetched comparing on a Marquette message board, two similarly ranked, high performing high school standouts with similar profiles, both attending marquette.

That's just me.

[Its DJOver]

I don't think it's too far fetched comparing on a Marquette message board, two similarly ranked, high performing high school standouts with similar profiles, both attending marquette.

That's just me.

I'm having a real hard time understanding your train of thought here.

Comparing them by saying that they're similarly ranked is one thing. But hoping for Jerel's career trajectory is another completely.  My only point is that if we hope that every incoming borderline top 100 Freshman has Jerel's trajectory, we're going to be disappointed 99% of the time (no matter what kind of AAU number they put up).

[brewcity77]

We're looking at per game averages these days? Yikes

I believe the phrase you're looking for was "I was wrong."

[Jay Bee]

I believe the phrase you're looking for was "I was wrong."

Not at all. He's got bad per game data to boot.

[panda]

Not at all. He's got bad per game data to boot.

Jon Rothstien begs to differ

[Newsdreams]

Jon Rothstien begs to differ

LOL, Truly??

[DoctorV]

Doctor V

Not sure if you read my entire posts on Sean or not, but I like him as a player. Yes, he had a great second half against Creighton and provided a big spark at SH. That said, the beauty of the MU offense the past two years has been it moves the ball quickly and everyone is involved.

Actually, Sean was on the court in the Kansas game when the offense had its finest possession this season. In the first half there were four passes made without a dribble, two guys passed up up pretty open 3's to hit Ben Gold with no one within 7-8 feet of him. That is the offense looks the best. That has been MIA more than not the past month.

As I noted in earlier post, I do not think we will ever see this type of roster ever again. Unique players that ran an offense almost to perfection for 1+ years and then it stalled. I am not blaming Sean, just pointing out his style might not be a great fit for this years team.

There is no doubt in my mind that his style will be perfect in the post TK, Oso era because the style of play will be different.

Lastly, IMO the offense was exceptional for a long time because it was team driven. If a 13 minute run by one guy is how you evaluate the big picture, that's fine. Again, I like Sean as a player and might really like him down the road when the team has a different look.

Good post, thanks for clarifying.

I remember that play versus Kansas, it was a beauty.
Two of my other favorite Sean plays of the season were the reverse layup with contact versus Creighton- I was sitting behind that basket and it was a game changer- and the pass up of a wide open 3 and dish to Oso at SH to get MU back within 1.

As for the 13 minute run by one guy thing- that's more of "this team is in a bad funk right now and needs a massive spark" and here comes Sean to save the day a few times of late.
Definitely not how I evaluate the big picture, but also definitely a necessary part of a quality team over a long season and especially into single elimination play.

Maybe the problem is that the team and offense have been having too many of these types of funks in the first place.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Tre Norman put up EYBL numbers that had only been matched previously by All-Americans and #1 overall NBA Draft picks. I thought he would be a lot more ready than he's looked. So far, Zaide has been the best freshman, IMO.

100%. Just as Ross was clearly by far the best frosh last year.

[1SE]

Like everyone else, I really love Sean's heart, motor and D-tenancity and wish him all the best for a speedy and full recovery.

But - is this particular team better with him off the floor - particularly on the offensive end - at least given how he was being utilized? On a macro level, we're 6-0 since he went down and were 3-3 in the six before that. Our Torvik game score average over our last six is 93 - in the previous 6 just 75, our O efficiency to 126 from 104, while our D efficiency has slipped from 92 to 98.  Roughly, it seems like his 15-20 minutes have largely gone to Tyler (~3 or 4), Stevie (~5 or 6) and the Freshman/Chase. Both Tyler (+4.9) and Stevie (+2.2) much higher PRPG than Sean (+1.1) although he beats out the freshmen. I don't know how to pull the advanced O and D stats by who is on the floor, but if someone can that would be interesting too.

But tactically, and I also don't know where to find these stats to hand, in addition to Tyler playing more, my strong impression is that he is playing on the ball more. I think it's safe to say Tyler and the team are much better offensively when Tyler is on the ball. Of course it's hard to attribute the team-wide poor shooting during the 3-3 stretch to Sean (especially since a lot of those were open looks) but is it just coincidence that the offensive has been flowing much better with no Sean on the floor (and more Tyler on the ball)?

Obviously it would be better to have a healthy Sean on the bench - but was Shaka actually utilizing him (and the team) correctly when he was healthy? The numbers suggest perhaps not. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Like everyone else, I really love Sean's heart, motor and D-tenancity and wish him all the best for a speedy and full recovery.

But - is this particular team better with him off the floor - particularly on the offensive end - at least given how he was being utilized? On a macro level, we're 6-0 since he went down and were 3-3 in the six before that. Our Torvik game score average over our last six is 93 - in the previous 6 just 75, our O efficiency to 126 from 104, while our D efficiency has slipped from 92 to 98.  Roughly, it seems like his 15-20 minutes have largely gone to Tyler (~3 or 4), Stevie (~5 or 6) and the Freshman/Chase. Both Tyler (+4.9) and Stevie (+2.2) much higher PRPG than Sean (+1.1) although he beats out the freshmen. I don't know how to pull the advanced O and D stats by who is on the floor, but if someone can that would be interesting too.

But tactically, and I also don't know where to find these stats to hand, in addition to Tyler playing more, my strong impression is that he is playing on the ball more. I think it's safe to say Tyler and the team are much better offensively when Tyler is on the ball. Of course it's hard to attribute the team-wide poor shooting during the 3-3 stretch to Sean (especially since a lot of those were open looks) but is it just coincidence that the offensive has been flowing much better with no Sean on the floor (and more Tyler on the ball)?

Obviously it would be better to have a healthy Sean on the bench - but was Shaka actually utilizing him (and the team) correctly when he was healthy? The numbers suggest perhaps not.

Yeah I've already said this, that I think imo the team is better this year the way we are currently constructed if everyone else is healthy.

Injury obviously blows for Sean, hurts our depth and hurts progress for next year.

But having TK on the ball almost exclusively now and more minutes for Stevie seems to be a big positive. Plus it's developing other younger guys.

[MU82]

Well, there is no other way to use Sean Jones than to have him on the ball. He would not help space the court at all standing outside the 3-point line and waiting for passes.

Numerous Scoopers, while expressing disappointment on behalf of Sean, did opine that the offense likely would operate better with Kolek on the ball more. And that has proven correct.

Sean's contributions this season - huge shots against Illinois and UCLA, and a great performance against Creighton - will not and should not be forgotten. We quite possibly go 0-3 in those games without him. I love the kid's energy and tenacity, too. But it's hard to argue against the notion that this team's best chance at March/April success will come with Kolek on the ball as much as possible.

[jfp61]

Bayesian Performance Rating.

Points per 100 possessions of offense and defense per player better than the average college player.

Tyler Kolek- 7.01
Oso Igodaharo - 6.22
Stevie Mitchell- 5.44
Kam Jones- 5.18
David Joplin- 4.34
Chase Ross- 4.22
Ben Gold- 3.45
Tre Norman- 2.07
Zaide Lowery- 1.39
Sean Jones - 1.1
Al Amadou- -0.79 (playing next to walkons 80% of the time)

[MU82]

Bayesian Performance Rating.

Points per 100 possessions of offense and defense per player better than the average college player.

Tyler Kolek- 7.01
Oso Igodaharo - 6.22
Stevie Mitchell- 5.44
Kam Jones- 5.18
David Joplin- 4.34
Chase Ross- 4.22
Ben Gold- 3.45
Tre Norman- 2.07
Zaide Lowery- 1.39
Sean Jones - 1.1
Al Amadou- -0.79 (playing next to walkons 80% of the time)

That's an interesting stat. Thanks for providing.

Curious how many players rank higher than Kolek, and what their scores are.

[jfp61]

That's an interesting stat. Thanks for providing.

Curious how many players rank higher than Kolek, and what their scores are.

https://evanmiya.com/

Kolek is 18th.

It's per possession rated. Pretty much all players on top 10 teams ahead

[MU82]

https://evanmiya.com/

Kolek is 18th.

It's per possession rated. Pretty much all players on top 10 teams ahead

Super interesting. Thanks jfb.

[wadesworld]

We'll see how it goes the rest of the season.  Our last 6 hasn't exactly been a murderer's row, but the offense definitely looks crisper.  Offenses will do that when they're making open shots, though.

Sean had a huge game against Creighton and was huge for MU against UCONN last year.  He can get into guys like Newton and Ashworth defensively.  Stevie obviously can too, but having them both available can be huge.

Sean's had some big moments against some of the stronger competition we've played against.

[Goose]

There is no doubt in my mind that the offense runs far better without Sean on the court. He really cannot play anything other than PG and his style changes the flow of the offense. I am looking forward to watching him in the future, but this team needs to be led by the two AA's on the team. MU needs to ride TK and Oso for as long as they can this season.

[lawdog77]

There is no doubt in my mind that the offense runs far better without Sean on the court. He really cannot play anything other than PG and his style changes the flow of the offense. I am looking forward to watching him in the future, but this team needs to be led by the two AA's on the team. MU needs to ride TK and Oso for as long as they can this season.

I think they need to pack TKO. Oso, and Kam in bubble wrap after the regular season until the NCAA tourney

[MuggsyB]

There is no doubt in my mind that the offense runs far better without Sean on the court. He really cannot play anything other than PG and his style changes the flow of the offense. I am looking forward to watching him in the future, but this team needs to be led by the two AA's on the team. MU needs to ride TK and Oso for as long as they can this season.

Defensively JTY can be a game changer and he's got some swag Goose.  So while I agree with your points on offensive flow, I still think he's missed as someone who can provide.a needed spark or spell Tyko.   You are absolutely correct that our two A-A's must lead us to the promised land but this team is at its best when we get solid contributions across the board. 

I'm hopeful that Kam's recent shredding of Georgetown will elevate his confidence down the homestretch.  MU is really good when we are turning teams over and attacking all over the floor.   When Kam and Jop in particular are splashing threes we're exceedingly dangerous and can beat anyone in the country.   We are also the most exciting team in college basketball when we're clicking on all cylinders. 

[Goose]

Muggsy

I like Sean Jones, but the offense stalled when he was running the point. There definitely is a big enough body of work to look at and the offense is much better with TK running the show. Sean definitely adds an added dimension on both of sides of the ball and it should be on full display when he returns. For now, I am very happy that TK is not playing off the ball for extended time.

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy

I like Sean Jones, but the offense stalled when he was running the point. There definitely is a big enough body of work to look at and the offense is much better with TK running the show. Sean definitely adds an added dimension on both of sides of the ball and it should be on full display when he returns. For now, I am very happy that TK is not playing off the ball for extended time.

That's fair.  I think that having our 3 toughest conf games to close the season is a huge plus Goose.  This team should be primed and ready.  We control our own destiny and must seize this tremendous opportunity moving forward.  A deep run is right there for us imo.