Sean Jones

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

You were hoping that a borderline top 100 recruit would be on the same trajectory as the programs 2nd all time leading scorer?

Wasn't Shaka hyping Tre up at one of the Chicago luncheons?  "Best guard" he's ever recruited, I believe.

Based on that, I was expecting a player that could compete for immediate playing time as a freshman.  Someone with star upside as a junior/senior.  Someone like Jerel McNeal (not necessarily being a top 5 Marquette all time scorer, mind you, but in general terms).

In the preseason, TAMU was saying Tre would be better than Sean Jones.  TAMU seems well connected to MUBB, so I put stock in what he posts.  Not only was Sean playing better than Tre, but it wasn't even close.

Instead, Tre has played fewer minutes than freshman Stevie Mitchell.  Sure, this team is better than the one from 3 years ago.  But Tre hasn't even shown flashes in games. 

For example, against Notre Dame, Tre struggled to generate shots with the 2nd unit.  The bench offense was basically Sean Jones drive, and either shoot or kick out to Ben Gold.

Hopefully, Tre starts to find his groove.  Shaka's hand is forced.  He has to play Tre and Zaide now.

[Its DJOver]

Wasn't Shaka hyping Tre up at one of the Chicago luncheons?  "Best guard" he's ever recruited, I believe.

Based on that, I was expecting a player that could compete for immediate playing time as a freshman.  Someone with star upside as a junior/senior.  Someone like Jerel McNeal (not necessarily being a top 5 Marquette all time scorer, mind you, but in general terms).

In the preseason, TAMU was saying Tre would be better than Sean Jones.  TAMU seems well connected to MUBB, so I put stock in what he posts.  Not only was Sean playing better than Tre, but it wasn't even close.

Instead, Tre has played fewer minutes than freshman Stevie Mitchell.  Sure, this team is better than the one from 3 years ago.  But Tre hasn't even shown flashes in games. 

For example, against Notre Dame, Tre struggled to generate shots with the 2nd unit.  The bench offense was basically Sean Jones drive, and either shoot or kick out to Ben Gold.

Hopefully, Tre starts to find his groove.  Shaka's hand is forced.  He has to play Tre and Zaide now.

I think you were taking "coach talk" a little to seriously. When we returned our entire backcourt from a conference championship team my expectations for a borderline top 100 Freshman were very low. I think he has the potential to be a great player as an upperclassman, and you're right that Shaka's hand is now forced, but man, this board has a history of overhyping Freshman before they step foot on a court.

[JTJ3]

To me, at least offensively, Tre looks like a guy who has played PG, with the ball in his hands, his entire basketball career who has had to adjust to playing off ball while Kolek and Sean Jones handle it.  Still trying to find his spots and get comfortable attacking from different spots.

Hopefully playing a little more on ball now gets him a little more comfortable.

[brewcity77]

Tre Norman put up EYBL numbers that had only been matched previously by All-Americans and #1 overall NBA Draft picks. I thought he would be a lot more ready than he's looked. So far, Zaide has been the best freshman, IMO.

[swoopem]

Tre's shot is flatter than Gold's. And a lot of people here complain about Ben's shot. Seems like an easy fix but it's also getting flatter as the season goes on

[panda]

You were hoping that a borderline top 100 recruit would be on the same trajectory as the programs 2nd all time leading scorer?

Jerel was a borderline top 100 recruit too

[MU82]

Well, for those who wanted to see the ball in Kolek's hands even more, your wish has been granted.

Assuming Norman isn't quite ready for the task, the backup PG probably will be Kam, right? Or a Kam/Stevie combo.

[Its DJOver]

Jerel was a borderline top 100 recruit too

That greatly exceeded his HS ranking.  Expecting that from every borderline top 100 recruit is fools gold IMO.

[brewcity77]

Has to be a Kam/Stevie combo. I still think Norman is best suited as 8th man, coming in more as a wing or ball-handling duties only when a game is out of hand.

[panda]

That greatly exceeded his HS ranking.  Expecting that from every borderline top 100 recruit is fools gold IMO.

Would love to see your timestamps saying Jerel would be the schools 2nd leading scorer during his freshman year.

[Its DJOver]

Would love to see your timestamps saying Jerel would be the schools 2nd leading scorer during his freshman year.

It doesn't exist bc nobody expected that.  The same way nobody should have expected Tre to be on the same trajectory (especially when he was walking into a full backcourt rather than being thrown into the starting lineup from day one). 

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.  Mine is, in general, keep expectations low for borderline top 100 recruits during their Freshman season.

[panda]

It doesn't exist bc nobody expected that.  The same way nobody should have expected Tre to be on the same trajectory (especially when he was walking into a full backcourt rather than being thrown into the starting lineup from day one). 

Not really sure what point you're trying to make.  Mine is, in general, keep expectations low for borderline top 100 recruits during their Freshman season.

Using Jerel as a point of reference in this instance is flawed.

[Its DJOver]

Using Jerel as a point of reference in this instance is flawed.

I agree, I was also not the one that first made that reference.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Tre Norman put up EYBL numbers that had only been matched previously by All-Americans and #1 overall NBA Draft picks. I thought he would be a lot more ready than he's looked. So far, Zaide has been the best freshman, IMO.

This is another data point worth mentioning. When Tre signed, he was coming off a very good summer.  Stevie was coming off a pretty 'meh' freshman year.

Obviously, Stevie became entrenched as a starter by the end of his sophomore year.   But as I mentioned, when Tre *signed* there were different expectations.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Using Jerel as a point of reference in this instance is flawed.

Yeah, I'm done comparing recruits to past players or having any expectations for them.  Expectations just lead to disappointment.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Well, for those who wanted to see the ball in Kolek's hands even more, your wish has been granted.

Good. Best thing for the team IMO. I think taking Kolek off the ball was a huge mistake, perhaps made as part of longer term thinking, but has been bad for the team.

[Jay Bee]

Tre Norman put up EYBL numbers that had only been matched previously by All-Americans and #1 overall NBA Draft picks.

#FakeNews #Lies

[Dr. Blackheart]

Using Jerel as a point of reference in this instance is flawed.

Agree. Scoop should comp him to the lower rated DWade.

#expectexcellence

[brewcity77]

#FakeNews #Lies

https://twitter.com/MikeYagmin/status/1567303891187863554

#1 NBA Draft picks: Cade Cunningham, Ben Simmons, Paolo Banchero

McDonald's All-Americans: Isaiah Briscoe, B.J. Boston, Simi Shittu, Keldon Johnson, Cam Reddish

[panda]

Agree. Scoop should comp him to the lower rated DWade.

#expectexcellence

Mixtape made a fair comparison of two similarly ranked freshman players coming out of high school.

Djo made a bad comparison (imo) initially. No one predicted Jerel would be second leading scorer in school history as a freshman. He was simply a valued contributor his first year. Tre isn't that yet, but with his role about to expand, he has a golden opportunity to prove the doubters wrong.

Sorry to delve into low level pedantics. snow day sadness

[Its DJOver]

Yeah, I'm done comparing recruits to past players or having any expectations for them.  Expectations just lead to disappointment.

When you set the bar that high for a Freshman, more often than not, yes those expectations will lead to disappointment.  Tre was never going to walk into a starting role from day one and get 27 minutes per game.  If you don't want to get called out for a bad comparison, don't make a bad comparison.

[brewcity77]

When you set the bar that high for a Freshman, more often than not, yes those expectations will lead to disappointment.  Tre was never going to walk into a starting role from day one and get 27 minutes per game.  If you don't want to get called out for a bad comparison, don't make a bad comparison.

Also, I'm not comparing Tre to those players or saying my expectations for him were to be a one-and-done lottery pick. I did expect that he would be able to be an immediate positive bench contributor, similar to what we've seen with Kam Jones in 2022 and Chase Ross in 2023. That doesn't feel like an unrealistic expectation for a guy who was putting up the numbers he did in AAU.

[MU82]

Good. Best thing for the team IMO. I think taking Kolek off the ball was a huge mistake, perhaps made as part of longer term thinking, but has been bad for the team.

Agree. I'm one who wanted to see the ball in Kolek's hands more.

But I do get why Kolek had to play off the ball more when he was on the court with Sean. While Sean is not an effective off-the-ball guy at all, Kolek had become a reliable 3-point shooter (until lately). So if you were gonna get Sean 10-15 minutes, and you didn't want to sit Kolek that entire 10-15 minutes, you had to mostly play Kolek off the ball.

[Its DJOver]

Also, I'm not comparing Tre to those players or saying my expectations for him were to be a one-and-done lottery pick. I did expect that he would be able to be an immediate positive bench contributor, similar to what we've seen with Kam Jones in 2022 and Chase Ross in 2023. That doesn't feel like an unrealistic expectation for a guy who was putting up the numbers he did in AAU.

I guess it's just a different philosophy that I would rather have low expectations and be pleasantly surprised by Freshman Kam/Chase than be disappointed by Tre.

My general rule of thumb (obvious Henry-esque exception) is that on day one Freshman don't look lost.  IMO Tre hasn't, his minutes were inconsistent pre injury crisis but he was getting in, working hard, learning, and not just running around with a deer in the headlights look.  By the end of a Freshman season, I want to be able to think that there's a good chance that they can make a jump next year. I don't think Tre's at that point yet, but he still has 15+ games to get there, and will certainly get the opportunity with the current injuries.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

When you set the bar that high for a Freshman, more often than not, yes those expectations will lead to disappointment.  Tre was never going to walk into a starting role from day one and get 27 minutes per game.  If you don't want to get called out for a bad comparison, don't make a bad comparison.

I don't give a crap about getting called out.  I'm an adult and can admit when I'm wrong.

Yep, I was wrong.  Happy?