[New to PT] What we learned about MU in Maui

[BLWarrior91]

The program is in a very good spot when we beat the top ranked team by 14 and lost to the second ranked team by three and we are concerned about and/or nitpicking our shooters.

These are good times. 

[PointWarrior]

Forget the humans, just let the Kenpom
Model out the season. That way the best team always wins.

It is so easy to forget the bolded and expect perfection. Our players are not computers. Let's cut them some slack.

[Goose]

Keep getting wide open 3s and keep shooting wide open 3s. I have no issue with anyone that has attempted a 3 season and hope they all take a lot more.

[tower912]

That Oso is going to play in the NBA, regardless of whether he can hit a 3 right now.    He was MU's best player in Maui.   Further evidenced by what happened when he committed that dumb foul for his second against Purdue.   He stayed on the floor in the second half and the comeback was nearly completed.    I think I read MU was +10 with him on the floor against Purdue.
   His performance against those 3 teams moved him up some draft lists.

[Goose]

tower

I mentioned last week that I thought the 2nd half of the UCLA was Oso's coming out party. He put things into a higher gear and kept there the next two games. He played aggressively on both end of the court, played smart and was the best player for MU last week. If that trend continues, he will be playing in the NBA next year.

[MU82]

Against any team with a good/great center, Oso is our most important player. He outplayed two good ones the first two games of the tournament and we won both, the second easily over the #1 team. He got in foul trouble in the third and we lost - we "won" during the time he was on the court, but we couldn't overcome getting beaten badly when he was on the bench.

Because of the importance of the PG position, Kolek probably remains our most important player overall. But we simply have to have Oso on the floor against any team with good bigs.

Thankfully, only one team has a big like Edey.

And luckily, only one team has a big who can do all the things Oso can.

[Uncle Rico]

That Oso is going to play in the NBA, regardless of whether he can hit a 3 right now.    He was MU's best player in Maui.   Further evidenced by what happened when he committed that dumb foul for his second against Purdue.   He stayed on the floor in the second half and the comeback was nearly completed.    I think I read MU was +10 with him on the floor against Purdue.
   His performance against those 3 teams moved him up some draft lists.

I don't know.  He should stay in school and work on his game. 

[MUMountin]

One thing on Oso's second foul--while it was frustrating for him to pick that up in that situation and time, it was a function of the system that we've otherwise praised and was the biggest factor in our blowout of Kansas the night before--aggressive, relentless defense that puts a lot of pressure on the ballhandler.  Later in the game, Oso did the exact same thing and knocked a ball loose for an easy transition bucket as part of our comeback.  That's the gamble that Shaka seems to be willing to make on defense--and unfortunately this time it didn't work in our favor.  But it doesn't necessarily mean that it was a stupid foul--more a calculated risk that sometimes isn't going to work out. 

[MU82]

One thing on Oso's second foul--while it was frustrating for him to pick that up in that situation and time, it was a function of the system that we've otherwise praised and was the biggest factor in our blowout of Kansas the night before--aggressive, relentless defense that puts a lot of pressure on the ballhandler.  Later in the game, Oso did the exact same thing and knocked a ball loose for an easy transition bucket as part of our comeback.  That's the gamble that Shaka seems to be willing to make on defense--and unfortunately this time it didn't work in our favor.  But it doesn't necessarily mean that it was a stupid foul--more a calculated risk that sometimes isn't going to work out.

I don't think most here mind having Oso switch and pressure; as you said, it's part of what Shaka does on D that works. But a center reaching in against a guard is a recipe for disaster. Maybe he got away with it once but you're just inviting a foul call there. And if we're playing a team that has an outstanding center, and if our big already has one foul, we simply can't afford it.

I'd be surprised if Oso himself didn't think it was a dopey foul.

[MUMountin]

I don't think most here mind having Oso switch and pressure; as you said, it's part of what Shaka does on D that works. But a center reaching in against a guard is a recipe for disaster. Maybe he got away with it once but you're just inviting a foul call there. And if we're playing a team that has an outstanding center, and if our big already has one foul, we simply can't afford it.

I'd be surprised if Oso himself didn't think it was a dopey foul.

My point is that is a bit of outcome bias--if he had timed his swipe better and knocked the ball loose and gotten a transition bucket, we would just think that is great defense (as he did late in the game when he already had at least 2 fouls).  Most of the time, that is going to work for us--and so far, the results are pretty good overall!  Occasionally, it will hurt as it did then with getting his hand caught in the cookie jar.  But I think we should recognize it as part of what Shaka wants them to do, even if it sometimes backfires--it is part of the scheme, not a bug in it.

[Jay Bee]

He reached far away from the basket. Was a bad play. It happens, but no reason for that reach.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

My point is that is a bit of outcome bias--if he had timed his swipe better and knocked the ball loose and gotten a transition bucket, we would just think that is great defense (as he did late in the game when he already had at least 2 fouls).  Most of the time, that is going to work for us--and so far, the results are pretty good overall!  Occasionally, it will hurt as it did then with getting his hand caught in the cookie jar.  But I think we should recognize it as part of what Shaka wants them to do, even if it sometimes backfires--it is part of the scheme, not a bug in it.

Shaka does not want him to reach on a guard 30 feet from the basket when he already has one foul.  Oso is a very smart player but that was a costly mistake. 

[The Sultan]

Yeah, there is really no reason to make excuses for it. That was a very bad decision by Oso.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Although later in the game he did the same thing on a trap and it led to a breakaway.  Definitely in the defensive game plan.

[MUMountin]

My question then is whether it was also a bad decision when he did almost the exact same thing at 16:31 in the second half.  MU had been mostly trading buckets since half, and was down 10.  Oso had two fouls and aggressively hedged out on Loyer and made a very similar reach/swipe at the ball as he did in the first half.  This time he got the ball cleanly and got a runout layup, cutting the lead to 8 and pumping the MU crowd back up.  But, he could have just as easily picked up his third foul and sat back down for the next 6+ minutes--and likely game over at that point. 

Do you see a distinction between the two or did he twice make a bad decision? 

[The Sultan]

My question then is whether it was also a bad decision when he did almost the exact same thing at 16:31 in the second half.  MU had been mostly trading buckets since half, and was down 10.  Oso had two fouls and aggressively hedged out on Loyer and made a very similar reach/swipe at the ball as he did in the first half.  This time he got the ball cleanly and got a runout layup, cutting the lead to 8 and pumping the MU crowd back up.  But, he could have just as easily picked up his third foul and sat back down for the next 6+ minutes--and likely game over at that point. 

Do you see a distinction between the two or did he twice make a bad decision? 

Yes. The time of the game is the distinction.

[MUMountin]

Yes. The time of the game is the distinction.

So not the fact that he was reaching in on a guard 30' away from the basket (as others have mentioned)? 

I can see an argument about game clock.  But the action itself seems very similar and a reflection of the defensive game plan--and would seem hard to coach the necessary aggressiveness without accepting the risk of sometimes picking up the foul--especially the night after doing much of the same against #1 KU without significant foul trouble.

[Jay Bee]

So not the fact that he was reaching in on a guard 30' away from the basket (as others have mentioned)? 

I can see an argument about game clock.  But the action itself seems very similar and a reflection of the defensive game plan--and would seem hard to coach the necessary aggressiveness without accepting the risk of sometimes picking up the foul--especially the night after doing much of the same against #1 KU without significant foul trouble.

The early instance (5.5 mins into game, with one foul) was a reach across the body / head at the sideline. The second (losing in second half; foul situation less concerning) was in the middle of the court and was a flick with the ball on Oso's side.

Obviously the circumstances are a huge differences, but I can see going for the flick in situation 2. The first half play was just poor judgment. For what? Why? High risk with little chance for goodness. Some similarities, but mostly different plays imo

[Goose]

The second foul on Oso was unfortunate and foolish. Hopefully the next time better judgment is used. I would rather see it in November than in March.

[oilcan]

Well my friends, that was all last week. Big wins against stout competition. Especially for Oso. He out performed 3 good competitors.  Edey was unstoppable. And despite the foul problems MU was right there.  I like the reminder about Chase Ross hitting 7 threes in last years game. Wow. This was not only a test but another reminder that this team is very talented. Offensively and defensively. It will be easier going forward, at least until we hit the harder games in the Big East. You would be hard pressed to name a better back court. The rebounding was decent enough to fly out of Maui with a 2nd place trophy. No complaints. No injuries. Get back home and get ready for the next four and then a cupcake before the Providence game.  I would expect MU to be 10-1 at that point. You should expect the same.

Meanwhile, I just knocked over my drink at Miss Katie's and I'm getting kicked out. Damn. If you're free and if you in the neighborhood maybe you could give me a ride home. Oh, forget it. I'll figure it out.

[Dr. Blackheart]

No extra lines on the floor, shot 31% from beyond the Saturn rings.

[DoctorV]

No extra lines on the floor, shot 31% from beyond the Saturn rings.

Discount 0/4 from walkons and Amadou.
That's nearly 36%.
Better, but still.

Tyler going to be at 11/21 for 52%
Kam going to be at 16/38 for 42%
Jop going to be at 13/33 for 39%

You can imagine what the rest are...
18 total made 3s amongst the others, don't want to count the attempts

[Dr. Blackheart]

Discount 0/4 from walkons and Amadou.
That's nearly 36%.
Better, but still.

Tyler going to be at 11/21 for 52%
Kam going to be at 16/38 for 42%
Jop going to be at 13/33 for 39%

You can imagine what the rest are...
18 total made 3s amongst the others, don't want to count the attempts

Guys left open 2-21 tonight. Kam with one attempt tonight.

Emperor's new clothes. End of the day, this team must hit the open, uncontested threes up and down the roster. This offense is predicated on it. More so, opposing defenses are preying on it.

Source: Eye Test

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Discount 0/4 from walkons and Amadou.
That's nearly 36%.
Better, but still.

Tyler going to be at 11/21 for 52%
Kam going to be at 16/38 for 42%
Jop going to be at 13/33 for 39%

You can imagine what the rest are...
18 total made 3s amongst the others, don't want to count the attempts

You could even discount Lowerys 0/3 as well as he isn't a part of the rotation in typical games. So the main rotation was 10/25 or 40%.

That being said,  Gold, Sean, Chase , and Stevie need to start making those. Better teams will deny the paint and we need to be able to punish them by making the open three. I'm not worried,  we know all four are capable. Tre can also earn some kinutes by knocking down open threes

[MU82]

I was encouraged by Gold's last couple 3-point attempts after his first three looked flat, with no chance of going in.

The fourth had nice arc but it rimmed out, and the fifth swished through. Not easy to keep shooting in a game like that after missing badly early.

Hopefully figuring some things out. We need those couple/few 3s a game that he'll be given by opposing defenses. Look how big they were against Kansas - totally squelched any chance of KU rallies.