[New to PT] What we learned about MU in Maui

[PaintTouches]

Some like Alan have been ahead of the curve, but for those like me who weren't sure MU's current ceiling was higher than last season, Maui was a wakeup call.

https://painttouches.com/2023/11/24/what-we-learned-about-marquette-in-maui/

Being able to put up these kinds of rim percentages at the rim with 2/3ds of games against top-20 defenses is wild.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The NBA 3pt line excuse is a bit weak. MU has only shot well from three against Rider.  Major concern

[panda]

Three point shooting or not - these folks know how to have fun

https://x.com/aries_sherrie/status/1727385492079993166?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

[MU82]

Interesting read, Andrei.

Welcome to joining the rest of us Marquette bulls!

[MuggsyB]

The NBA 3pt line excuse is a bit weak. MU has only shot well from three against Rider.  Major concern

It's a bit of a concern because we've gotten wide open looks.  Stevie, Chase, and Sean have to knock that shot down at a better clip.  Especially the corner J. 
Jop is spacing the floor at least but it that 3rd guard position that needs to make that shot.  If not we'll get far more sagging in the paint from our opponents and it will be harder to score inside.  Again, these are rhythm J's that should be knocked down.  I'm hoping guys will start draining them Dr. B.  Kolek may have to launch a bit more too. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The NBA 3pt line excuse is a bit weak. MU has only shot well from three against Rider.  Major concern

3 PT % this season so far and last season:

Kolek - 43.8/39.8
Kam - 40.5/36
Joplin - 37/39.9
Ross - 30.8/32.3
S. Jones - 14.3/31.7
Mitchell - 12.5/30
Gold - 31.3/30

The good news is Kolek, Kam, and Joplin are looking really good so far. 

Ross and Gold are around where they were last season and I'm still hoping for some improvement and consistency there.  Both of their strokes look good. 

The biggest issues right now are Sean and Stevie.  They're a combined 4-30 right now.  They're not going to continue to struggle at that level, IMO.

Based on this, the 3 point shooting is not a significant concern to me yet.  If we're still seeing the same problems a month from now the conversation changes. 

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I know he’s hit two big 3s but Sean isn’t a shooter. I think the less volume he takes from 3 the better.

[MuggsyB]

I know he’s hit two big 3s but Sean isn’t a shooter. I think the less volume he takes from 3 the better.

He and Stevie are under 15%.  It's not about launching indiscriminately, it's about making more when no one is within 10 feet of them.   Both are fully capable of increasing their percentages to at least 30%.

[Daniel]

The good news is our traditional  three point shooters are doing well, and we are tryin* t9. Extend our three point shooting with other players which 8 believe is intentional and smart. The stakes with high in Hawaii and the pressure was there.   A Greta train8ng ground for the “new” three point shooters,  they should be chill in most other games this season and might mphit higher percentage.  Go Marquette!

[Afroman]

Joplin should rarely, if ever, put the ball on the floor.

[Lennys Tap]

Joplin should rarely, if ever, put the ball on the floor.

Yeah, don’t think him putting the ball on the floor and backing his man down is a very good option. Neither is Stevie shooting a 3 early in the shot clock.

[oilcan]

Disappointing to see because of our expectations. Especially after beating Kansas. I believe Smart beat Bill Self and Kansas three times when they were ranked #1. I don't know if Shaka reminded him of that when they had words at half court after the altercation in front of the MU bench when the Kansas player turned and said something like "Take that you mother carnal knowledge bitches."

Anyway, lets talk about basic basketball strategy. MU was right there against Edey. Give me 3 three pointers and it's game over for Purdue. Kam went 7-13 because the team needed points to stay close and because he can do that. But he shouldn't have to be the cutter when you have Joplin or Ross. Kam is part of the triangle that should be shooting rhythm threes. He was 1 for 2. Ridiculous.  One of of best 3 point shooter in college basketball.   

Chase should not be missing uncontested layups.

And finally, let's look at this nonsense about foul trouble. I know everyone here will disagree with me. Oso had two and Ben had two and then they each had three. We better sit them. Did either of them foul out? I know it's hard and Smart went to his bench and said I need someone needs to step up and really help us right now. And that's good, it challenges players who want to contribute. And it will eventually pay dividends. But in a situation like this I would and should expect Oso to play hard every minute and I would expect Gold to play hard enough to affect the pushing and shoving. Learn not to back down. Don't play soft.

[MU82]

oilcan, my man ...

It's not the number of fouls Oso had, and it had nothing to do with him "playing soft."

He got #2 pretty early in the game, and Shaka had to sit him. It's not an "excuse" - Oso fully committed the foul, and it was not a good one, 35 feet from the hoop trying to reach in on a guard. Shaka couldn't risk Oso getting #3 in the first half; plus, he trusted Gold.

Gold had an opportunity to impact the game a lot but missed three wide-open 3s. He makes two of those, or even one, and it affects how Purdue/Edey plays defense. Again, it had nothing to do with fouls or "soft."

On Chase's "uncontested" layup, he saw Edey closing in and it caused him to shoot the ball differently. I was surprised he missed, but I understand it.

Kam needs to take more than two 3s, but Purdue was working very hard to take those away from him. Same with Joplin. There was another good team on the floor, a team that will be ranked #1 next week. They have a very good coach, the returning national player of the year, and other pretty good players.

A lot went wrong for Marquette, yet Shaka had his team within a possession and with the ball late.

[PaintTouches]

The NBA 3pt line excuse is a bit weak. MU has only shot well from three against Rider.  Major concern

If it was just MU, sure, though there are levels of "well".

But collectively, the 8 teams shot about 10 points worse from 3 in Hawaii on just as many shots. Whether it was the rims or background or line,  it was not MU specific.

And seeing how MU shot from 3 ar Fiserv the games they had the 3 point line early in the 22 season, I'm convinced that's the biggest factor.

My concern level is low.

[bilsu]

Joplin should rarely, if ever, put the ball on the floor.

I agree with this. It started mid-season last year, when he seemed to try to back players down using the dribble. I think he is much more effective shooting threes. Last year he made (by memory) 7 threes against Purdue and this year he made one, which is probably the only one he took. Sure, part of is due to Purdue's defense, but we needed him to take more threes. The wrong people are shooting threes.

[We R Final Four]

Yeah, don’t think him putting the ball on the floor and backing his man down is a very good option. Neither is Stevie shooting a 3 early in the shot clock.

In Nevada’s Shaka’s offense they want the open man shooting the 3. They prefer an open look 3 from anyone, over a contested 3 from our best shooters. The amount of time left on the shot clock is irrelevant to the shot selection. If Stevie or anyone in this offense not named Oso doesn’t shoot a wide open 3…..they will quickly be replaced by someone with the confidence to do so.

[wadesworld]

Not super concerned about much with this team. One of our two best and most important players sat 10+ minutes in the first, and couldn’t be aggressive for an extra 5 first half minutes, and we still had the ball with the chance to tie against the team that clearly deserves to be #1 in the country. We smoked Kansas. We’ve already won on the road against a top 25 team.

We can win games in multiple ways, with multiple guys stepping up. We play an entertaining, exciting style.

Life is good as an MU fan.

[MuggsyB]

There is a 0.0% chance MU falls out if the top 5 and I'm guessing we are #3 or #4 (behind UCONN) at worst. 

That said, and Shaka alluded to this at his post game presser, MU has a lot of room for improvement.  The ceiling of this team remains sky high but I would like to get the 3 ball cooking and kick it up another level. 

[MU82]

Not super concerned about much with this team. One of our two best and most important players sat 10+ minutes in the first, and couldn’t be aggressive for an extra 5 first half minutes, and we still had the ball with the chance to tie against the team that clearly deserves to be #1 in the country. We smoked Kansas. We’ve already won on the road against a top 25 team.

We can win games in multiple ways, with multiple guys stepping up. We play an entertaining, exciting style.

Life is good as an MU fan.

Perfectly stated, wades.

[Dr. Blackheart]

If it was just MU, sure, though there are levels of "well".

But collectively, the 8 teams shot about 10 points worse from 3 in Hawaii on just as many shots. Whether it was the rims or background or line,  it was not MU specific.

And seeing how MU shot from 3 ar Fiserv the games they had the 3 point line early in the 22 season, I'm convinced that's the biggest factor.

My concern level is low.

The lines didn't affect Purdue against us. Your theory is Dodds-Shooting Background like. Opponents are leaving our lesser shooters wide open while limiting our shooters on the perimeter.

[Shooter McGavin]

Enjoyed the analysis.  Thank you to Paint touches!

[Big Papi]

Not concerned at all about this team or its 3-point shooting.

Disappointed that Stevie's 3-point shooting still doesn't look good.  I think that is what it is.  I think Sean, Chase and Ben will start making more of their 3-point opportunities. 

Ben had 2 open looks that he missed against Purdue.  He makes those and I believe we win going away even with the foul trouble we had.  Ben can make those and as he gets more playing time, he will make those.  Remember he missed a lot of time this season and is behind everyone else in terms of conditioning and game needed energy/confidence.  He will be a big weapon against the bigger teams we face this year.

[oilcan]

MU82 Thank you. I agree with you a lot. I just have opinions about bb strategy. I have different opinions sometimes that annoy people that know the game but don’t always agree with me. I’m sometimes wrong, but I’m never in doubt.

This is the biggest one. Foul trouble. If you don’t foul out you’re not in foul trouble. Against Perdue I suggested that fans expect to see a team in foul trouble play soft. It’s reasonable to assume. But why? Why play half your butt off? Grind it all the way.

And why was MU in this situation anyway. Man to man covering ball movement, ball reversals Oso covering a guard out at 35 feet, just floating, and Oso trying for an around the back steal? That was soft. Save it for something that could benefit the team more, like guarding in the paint. In these situations players like Ross and Joplin are more likely to create a turnover, and if they don’t and they foul it’s less of a problem. Other guys are so hungry to get minutes.

Three point shooting. Well there’s only one that can be relied upon and that’s Kam. And yet he’s called upon time and time again to drive the lane for a basket because he can, and even though TK has the pick and roll with Oso,  no other player is able to make plays. I’m not complaining, I’m just saying there’s an opportunity there. The team is more than decent as was demonstrated last week in Maui. Maybe a couple of players deferred or were hesitant to step into their roles.  And I don’t mean the 3- TK, Oso or Kam. They are so good, but they still need help.

Big games coming up. The competition is relentless. The core is there and the supporting cast will gain experience and will figure out how best to improve the team. Ben Gold will get a bloody nose and play like Theo John. Shots will fall from the corner and the cheer leaders will wear shorter skits. But creepy old guys won’t record it on their cell phones. We can only hope.

[MU82]

Sometimes you just don't make enough shots - if Gold hits a couple of those wide-open 3s, it makes a big different.

Sometimes players get dumb fouls. You don't think Oso knows that was a dopey foul? It simply happens.

They are human.

The team is more than decent, it is very, very good, one of the best in the country. It's a long season. This won't be our last loss. Enjoy the journey!

[Scoop Snoop]

Sometimes you just don't make enough shots - if Gold hits a couple of those wide-open 3s, it makes a big different.

Sometimes players get dumb fouls. You don't think Oso knows that was a dopey foul? It simply happens.

They are human.

The team is more than decent, it is very, very good, one of the best in the country. It's a long season. This won't be our last loss. Enjoy the journey!

It is so easy to forget the bolded and expect perfection. Our players are not computers. Let's cut them some slack.