Lewiston shooting

[lawdog77]

What good does it do to condemn someone like this? Would it be better if he hadn't had a come to Jesus moment?
You're never going to win hearts and minds if your first instinct is to label those you convert to your side as douche canoes.

+1

[Jay Bee]

What good does it do to condemn someone like this? Would it be better if he hadn't had a come to Jesus moment?
You're never going to win hearts and minds if your first instinct is to label those you convert to your side as douche canoes.

There's a difference between a come to Jesus movement and politically-convenient yapping

[Skatastrophy]

There's a difference between a come to Jesus movement and politically-convenient yapping

True and only time will tell.

But until then, we'd best believe that every word out of every public person's mouth is politically-convenient yapping when there's a recording device in the room.

[The Lens]

Why doesn't this happen in other comparable countries?

Why doesn't this happen in other comparable countries?

Why doesn't this happen in other comparable countries?

Why doesn't this happen in other comparable countries?

The Second Amendent crowd never seems to answer this question.

[Uncle Rico]

The Second Amendent crowd never seems to answer this question.

Music videos, video games, Hollywood and so on

[reinko]

Music videos, video games, Hollywood and so on

you forgot "gangsta" rap

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Music videos, video games, Hollywood and so on

Divorces, legal abortion, and the teaching of evolution, according to the illustrious Speaker of the House.

Which, again, I'm pretty sure they have in other developed countries.

Hmmm, I wonder what the one different factor could actually be?

[Uncle Rico]

you forgot "gangsta" rap

You know they can say the n word and I can't

[shoothoops]

The Second Amendent crowd never seems to answer this question.

That's because for many of these 2nd Amendment politicians, it's about their individual wealth and power over all else. Many don't care about guns. And many of their constiutients are sold a bill of goods.

Thoughts and prayers, blame someone else, gaslight and change the subject.

The cold truth is their individual wealth and power are more important to them than doing something about guns. It's a choice.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Each time one of these shootings occur the usual knee jerk reaction is to blame guns. There are plenty of laws pertaining to weapons but it always comes down to the laws not followed or nobody reacted to the trouble signs of mental illness. Having an unarmed populace faced with criminals who disregard all laws including guns is a recipe for disaster. Per the CDC and FBI's own data between 1.5 and 2MM crimes per  year are deterred or stopped by the presence of a gun. Pretty compelling evidence for the Second Amendment.

[lawdog77]

Each time one of these shootings occur the usual knee jerk reaction is to blame guns. There are plenty of laws pertaining to weapons but it always comes down to the laws not followed or nobody reacted to the trouble signs of mental illness. Having an unarmed populace faced with criminals who disregard all laws including guns is a recipe for disaster. Per the CDC and FBI's own data between 1.5 and 2MM crimes per  year are deterred or stopped by the presence of a gun. Pretty compelling evidence for the Second Amendment.

I don't know of many people that are blaming just guns. It's the lack of laws with any bite (registration, training, red flag laws, assault rifles) etc.

[MU82]

I don't know of many people that are blaming just guns. It's the lack of laws with any bite (registration, training, red flag laws, assault rifles) etc.

Correct.

And then there's this:



https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/

This from the article:

The reality is that estimates of defensive gun use are so squishy that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in May removed all figures from its website.

And this:

More than 20 years ago, Kleck, who taught at Florida State University, reported a far higher figure, 2.5 million, and that's been embraced by gun activists. In 1993, Kleck and his colleague Marc Gertz surveyed 5,000 adults and asked if they or their household members had used a gun for self-defense in the past five years, even if it wasn't fired. Just over 1 percent of respondents said they did. In their National Self-Defense Survey, published in 1995, Kleck and Gertz extrapolated that figure to the entire adult population of 200 million, concluding that Americans use guns for self-defense as often as 2.1 to 2.5 million times a year.

Researchers have found several issues with Kleck's estimates. While the adult population in the United States in 1993 was around 200 million people, not all of them owned guns — only about 42 percent did. So extrapolating the survey results to the entire adult population yields an overestimate. David Hemenway, ​​director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, who first addressed "extreme overestimates" of DGUs 25 years ago, pointed out problems with Kleck's math in 1997:

Guns were reportedly used by defenders for self-defense in approximately 845,000 burglaries. From sophisticated victimization surveys, however, we know that there were fewer than six million burglaries in the year of the survey and in only 22 percent of those cases was someone certainly at home (1.3 million burglaries). Since only 42 percent of U.S. households own firearms, and since the victims in two thirds of the occupied dwellings were asleep, the 2.5 million figure requires us to believe that burglary victims use their guns in self-defense more than 100 percent of the time.

And this:

Are there more instances of defensive gun use than gun crimes?
No. If we're going by NCVS data, DGUs do not outnumber gun crimes. There are seven times as many gun crimes (484,800) as there are instances of defensive gun use (70,040) each year, according to the survey.

Leading researchers back that up. The Harvard Injury Control Center has found that guns are used far more often to intimidate others than in self-defense.

[lawdog77]

Correct.

And then there's this:



https://www.thetrace.org/2022/06/defensive-gun-use-data-good-guys-with-guns/

This from the article:

The reality is that estimates of defensive gun use are so squishy that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in May removed all figures from its website.

And this:

More than 20 years ago, Kleck, who taught at Florida State University, reported a far higher figure, 2.5 million, and that's been embraced by gun activists. In 1993, Kleck and his colleague Marc Gertz surveyed 5,000 adults and asked if they or their household members had used a gun for self-defense in the past five years, even if it wasn't fired. Just over 1 percent of respondents said they did. In their National Self-Defense Survey, published in 1995, Kleck and Gertz extrapolated that figure to the entire adult population of 200 million, concluding that Americans use guns for self-defense as often as 2.1 to 2.5 million times a year.

Researchers have found several issues with Kleck's estimates. While the adult population in the United States in 1993 was around 200 million people, not all of them owned guns — only about 42 percent did. So extrapolating the survey results to the entire adult population yields an overestimate. David Hemenway, ​​director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, who first addressed "extreme overestimates" of DGUs 25 years ago, pointed out problems with Kleck's math in 1997:

Guns were reportedly used by defenders for self-defense in approximately 845,000 burglaries. From sophisticated victimization surveys, however, we know that there were fewer than six million burglaries in the year of the survey and in only 22 percent of those cases was someone certainly at home (1.3 million burglaries). Since only 42 percent of U.S. households own firearms, and since the victims in two thirds of the occupied dwellings were asleep, the 2.5 million figure requires us to believe that burglary victims use their guns in self-defense more than 100 percent of the time.

And this:

Are there more instances of defensive gun use than gun crimes?
No. If we're going by NCVS data, DGUs do not outnumber gun crimes. There are seven times as many gun crimes (484,800) as there are instances of defensive gun use (70,040) each year, according to the survey.

Leading researchers back that up. The Harvard Injury Control Center has found that guns are used far more often to intimidate others than in self-defense.

To be fair, that doesn't take into consideration the "deterrent factor", crimes that aren't committed because of the potential victim has a gun. Well, my quick solution is to test that theory, make highly strict gun laws (no guns outside of the home, manadatory safes, registration, yearly training, ban certain types of weapons), and if crime goes through the roof, ease back on some of the restrictions.

[MU82]

To be fair, that doesn't take into consideration the "deterrent factor", crimes that aren't committed because of the potential victim has a gun. Well, my quick solution is to test that theory, make highly strict gun laws (no guns outside of the home, manadatory safes, registration, yearly training, ban certain types of weapons), and if crime goes through the roof, ease back on some of the restrictions.

The last paragraph I quoted - The Harvard Injury Control Center has found that guns are used far more often to intimidate others than in self-defense - rings true to me.

How would those considering committing a crime even know that House A had guns in it but House B didn't?

Having said that, I like your idea, lawdog. An overwhelming majority of Americans say they want gun-safety laws with more teeth. A far smaller percentage want guns, guns and more guns everywhere and all the time.

[The Lens]

No one is trying to ban guns. 

Carry a hand gun for self defense, fine. 
Hunt, fine.
Enjoy trap shooting, fine.
Blow off some steam at the range, go nuts.

I don't get how anyone can rationalize why assault rifles should be legal.   

[Hards Alumni]

No one is trying to ban guys. 

Carry a hand gun for self defense, fine. 
Hunt, fine.
Enjoy trap shooting, fine.

I don't get how anyone can rationalize why assault rifles should be legal.

murder dildos are fun to shoot

[lawdog77]

How would those considering committing a crime even know that House A had guns in it but House B didn't?

I have one of these. Don't own a gun (and never will). Never been robbed.

[Jockey]

There's a difference between a come to Jesus movement and politically-convenient yapping

Woo hoo!!

Even JB and Jockey have moments of agreement.

[Shaka Shart]

Music videos, video games, Hollywood and so on

Wokeism

[shoothoops]

No one is trying to ban guns. 

Carry a hand gun for self defense, fine. 
Hunt, fine.
Enjoy trap shooting, fine.
Blow off some steam at the range, go nuts.

I don't get how anyone can rationalize why assault rifles should be legal.

They can't. Banning assault rifles is a necessary start, but it's just a start with regards to gun reform. It will help with some of the mass shootings etc...but it doesn't address many other gun homicides, suicides, and accidental gun deaths.

[lawdog77]

They can't. Banning assault rifles is a necessary start, but it's just a start with regards to gun reform. It will help with some of the mass shootings etc...but it doesn't address many other gun homicides, suicides, and accidental gun deaths.

You'll need to ban bullets too, and the ingredients needed to make bullets

[Uncle Rico]

Wokeism

What about Chicago?

[lawdog77]

They can't. Banning assault rifles is a necessary start, but it's just a start with regards to gun reform. It will help with some of the mass shootings etc...but it doesn't address many other gun homicides, suicides, and accidental gun deaths.

I have a 5 point plan to stop gun deaths.

[Uncle Rico]

I have a 5 point plan to stop gun deaths.

Darkness has a way of accomplishing these things, patty cakes

[Jockey]

No one is trying to ban guns. 

Carry a hand gun for self defense, fine. 
Hunt, fine.
Enjoy trap shooting, fine.
Blow off some steam at the range, go nuts.

I don't get how anyone can rationalize why assault rifles should be legal.

The problem is that every Fox viewer believes all Libs want to ban all guns.

Lying works. As a famous ex-president said -lie often enough and people will start to believe it.