Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[MuggsyB]

Can you find any examples of "all lives matter " being used in its current context except in opposition to "black lives matter?"

That's not the issue and most of you are missing the point.  Can you find examples, before the BLM movement used the slogan, where people stated that Black Lives didn't matter?   Or was it just obvious since Michael Brown in Feguson?  The immediate inference in the slogan Black Lives Matter was that in particular cops and white people are racists as a whole.  That's what it means.  It doesn't matter that the narrative from Ferguson was a conplete lie.

As for the BLM movement which has raked in an insane amount of money?  They have severe problems which you can argue about.  You can discuss whether they've done actual positive things in tbe black community, or made things worse, or are a bunch of con-artists, etc, etc, etc.  The Sacramento Kings announcer of 25 years lost his job because he stated "All Lives Matter" in conjunction with the slogan Black Lives Matter.  Did this prove anything?  That he's a racist?  Was it really necessary to fire the guy? 

[Hards Alumni]

Neither said nor suggested by me. I can't account for what others might have said (or how you might have interpreted it).

I know.  I just wanted someone to say it so we can all agree that it shouldn't be used as a blanket defense for blowing up civilian infrastructure and murdering the injured, as well as doctors and nurses.

[MuggsyB]

We have zero right to tell Israel how to defend themselves or put pressure on them to have a cease-fire.  Let them do what they have to do.  And frankly we also shouldn't be the ones deciding whatever happens down the road in Gaza.  I implore the State of Israel to annihilate every single Hanas terrorist scumbag and not allow this garbage to happen again or listen to the media pressure..  Now, as you know I would go much further, but this idea of a cease-fire is insanely idiotic and inexcusable. 

[Hards Alumni]

That's not the issue and most of you are missing the point.  Can you find examples, before the BLM movement used the slogan, where people stated that Black Lives didn't matter?   Or was it just obvious since Michael Brown in Feguson?  The immediate inference in the slogan Black Lives Matter was that in particular cops and white people are racists as a whole.  That's what it means.  It doesn't matter that the narrative from Ferguson was a conplete lie.

As for the BLM movement which has raked in an insane amount of money?  They have severe problems which you can argue about.  You can discuss whether they've done actual positive things in tbe black community, or made things worse, or are a bunch of con-artists, etc, etc, etc.  The Sacramento Kings announcer of 25 years lost his job because he stated "All Lives Matter" in conjunction with the slogan Black Lives Matter.  Did this prove anything?  That he's a racist?  Was it really necessary to fire the guy?

Donny, you're out of your element.

[MuggsyB]

I know.  I just wanted someone to say it so we can all agree that it shouldn't be used as a blanket defense for blowing up civilian infrastructure and murdering the injured, as well as doctors and nurses.

Who was using it as a blanket defense?  It's called deterrence and eliminating Hamas to darkness. 

[Pakuni]

That's not the issue and most of you are missing the point.  Can you find examples, before the BLM movement used the slogan, where people stated that Black Lives didn't matter? 

For f---k's sake, Muggsy, read a history book (except in Florida) if you need examples of when and where in this country people treated Black lives as if they didn't matter.

[MuggsyB]

Donny, you're out of your element.

Who's Donny?  What do you think the purpose of BLM is exactly?  Kendi also looks really bad btw and there's a connection ideologically. 

[Pakuni]

We have zero right to tell Israel how to defend themselves or put pressure on them to have a cease-fire. 

Given that we're footing a large chunk of the bill, we have every right.. If and when Israel stops taking our money and weapons, they can tell us to f--- off. Until then, they should pay heed.

[Hards Alumni]

Who was using it as a blanket defense?  It's called deterrence and eliminating Hamas to darkness.

So you agree, that killing civilians without regard is a war crime and should be avoided.  And that Israel has engaged in excessive civilian killings.

Good.

[MuggsyB]

For f---k's sake, Muggsy, read a history book (except in Florida) if you need examples of when and where in this country people treated Black lives as if they didn't matter.

That's not the point.  I'm not discounting the terrible suffering of the black community historically.  We're talking about the BLM movement specifically in today's world.. 

[Hards Alumni]

Given that we're footing a large chunk of the bill, we have every right.. If and when Israel stops taking our money and weapons, they can tell us to f--- off. Until then, they should pay heed.

Precisely.

[Hards Alumni]

That's not the point.  I'm not discounting the terrible suffering of the black community historically.  We're talking about the BLM movement specifically in today's world..

Donny, you're out of your element.

[The Sultan]

That's not the point.  I'm not discounting the terrible suffering of the black community historically.  We're talking about the BLM movement specifically in today's world.. 

That's a circular argument that even Heisey wouldn't attempt to make.

[Pakuni]

That's not the point.  I'm not discounting the terrible suffering of the black community historically.  We're talking about the BLM movement specifically in today's world..

Sigh ... the BLM movement was created because of this country's history (and present) of treating its Black population as lesser humans. You can't separate the two because it's convenient for you.

[LloydsLegs]

  Can you find examples, before the BLM movement used the slogan, where people stated that Black Lives didn't matter?   

Holy crap.  Just wow.  This is something.  Maybe (I know there is a lot of competition) the dumbest thing ever said on this board.

[MU82]

Can you find examples, before the BLM movement used the slogan, where people stated that Black Lives didn't matter?

You're kidding, right?

That's not the point.  I'm not discounting the terrible suffering of the black community historically.  We're talking about the BLM movement specifically in today's world.. 

Actually, you specifically said "before the BLM movement."

And yes, for hundreds of years in America, including very recent years (including this year), white people have stated that Black lives didn't (and don't) matter.

I mean, less than 10 years ago, a white guy walked into a Black church outside of Charleston and shot up the congregation. Why? Because they were Black. That was a white person stating very loudly that Black lives don't matter. Three years ago, a white cop brutally murdered a Black guy in cold blood. Why? Because he was Black. That was a white person stating very loudly that Black lives don't matter. We could do this all day, starting in the 1600s, and going all the way to 2023.

C'mon, Muggs.

[MuggsyB]

Sigh ... the BLM movement was created because of this country's history (and present) of treating its Black population as lesser humans. You can't separate the two because it's convenient for you.

No, it wasn't.  It started after Michael Brown was shot and killed in Ferguson, MO.  And mind you it was in self defense.  And also mind you our Attorney General went to the funeral even though he and Obama knew full well it was self-defense.  That's how it started.  The BLM Movement has absolutely nothing to do with our country's history from slavery to the present.

[MuggsyB]

You're kidding, right?

Actually, you specifically said "before the BLM movement."

And yes, for hundreds of years in America, including very recent years (including this year), white people have stated that Black lives didn't (and don't) matter.

I mean, less than 10 years ago, a white guy walked into a Black church outside of Charleston and shot up the congregation. Why? Because they were Black. That was a white person stating very loudly that Black lives don't matter. Three years ago, a white cop brutally murdered a Black guy in cold blood. Why? Because he was Black. That was a white person stating very loudly that Black lives don't matter. We could do this all day, starting in the 1600s, and going all the way to 2023.

C'mon, Muggs.

Yes, we have racists.  No one is denying that at all.  It's about whether we're a racist country as a whole and how you actually define that?  Has there been any progress?  Etc, Etc, Etc.

[Hards Alumni]

No, it wasn't.  It started after Michael Brown was shot and killed in Ferguson, MO.  And mind you it was in self defense.  And also mind you our Attorney General went to the funeral even though he and Obama knew full well it was self-defense.  That's how it started.  The BLM Movement has absolutely nothing to do with our country's history from slavery to the present.

[MuggsyB]

Ya, that's not an argument or retort.  You refuse to make a distinction between tbe words black lives matter and the BLM movement. 

[JWags85]

So you agree, that killing civilians without regard is a war crime and should be avoided.  And that Israel has engaged in excessive civilian killings.

Good.

But that's goalpost shifting from Jesu's original post which basically suggested human shields were just a non-existent fugazi excuse for military action like WMDs in Iraq.

-Israel should avoid excess civilian casualties and indiscriminate killings in their strikes.  They have arguably not done a good job of that.

-Hamas uses human shields of varying types with regularity which makes accomplishing the former difficult, but certainly not impossible.

Both of those can be true.  But people are using reasonable criticisms of the former to typify Israel as completely and indefensibly evil in all ways, thus anything they say is false.  Thus human shields is a lie they've made up to allow genocide.  Or the disturbing number of people saying that they majority of people killed on 10/7 were actually just IDF forces, or better yet, most of those killed at the music festival were actually killed by IDF wantonly killing everyone to eliminate the Hamas fighters there   

That is how people that are supposedly just for "freeing Palestine" are shifting into Hamas apologists and tacit supporters

[Pakuni]

No, it wasn't.  It started after Michael Brown was shot and killed in Ferguson, MO. 

Nope.

[Hards Alumni]

But that's goalpost shifting from Jesu's original post which basically suggested human shields were just a non-existent fugazi excuse for military action like WMDs in Iraq.

-Israel should avoid excess civilian casualties and indiscriminate killings in their strikes.  They have arguably not done a good job of that.

-Hamas uses human shields of varying types with regularity which makes accomplishing the former difficult, but certainly not impossible.

Both of those can be true.  But people are using reasonable criticisms of the former to typify Israel as completely and indefensibly evil in all ways, thus anything they say is false.  Thus human shields is a lie they've made up to allow genocide.  Or the disturbing number of people saying that they majority of people killed on 10/7 were actually just IDF forces, or better yet, most of those killed at the music festival were actually killed by IDF wantonly killing everyone to eliminate the Hamas fighters there   

That is how people that are supposedly just for "freeing Palestine" are shifting into Hamas apologists and tacit supporters

I'm not shifting goal posts, my post has nothing to do with jes's post.  Not every response here is taking everything else into account.

We are in agreement, I just wish people would be in agreement with your first point instead of just the second.

[Hards Alumni]

Ya, that's not an argument or retort.  You refuse to make a distinction between tbe words black lives matter and the BLM movement.

I do?  How's that?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I'll respect BLM when they march in places like Chicago where black lives are lost every day. Also problematic where funding comes from and how it is used. It is s a wedge used to drive us apart.