Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Heisenberg]

You are welcome to call me "not a serious person," but it is simpler for me to simply say I was wrong about the actual UN resolution 242. What is true, is that every resolution since then, largely starting in 1976 that proposed 2-states solutions based on Resolution 242 were vetoed by the US.

My error.

For the rest, and in general. All the peace agreements were based on Resolution 242. That occurred after the 6-day war, so arguing that Israel winning that war changes the narrative is mute, when the world agreed on resolution 242 after the 6-day war.

But you should change your argument from. The Palestinians have never offered a 2-state plan, to they never offered one that you and Israel like, because the former is not true.

I actually think you are a serious person. Those comments were more directed at the idea that someone puts out a ton of facts, like you and me, one or two might be wrong. If you does not distract from the larger point ... so what! It does not mean EVERYTHING they say, or believe, is wrong. Hence not a serious person..

The only people that don't make mistakes are those that don't try to offer an opinion support with facts. Those that scream someone is not a serious person are gaslighting about themselves.

——

Ok, that said ....

The difference between us is really about what we THINK is happening in the Middle East. I do not think the Palestinians and the Israelis can never be compatible.  The have two vastly different worldviews that cannot be reconciled.

It think I've explained why i think they cannot  above.

I assume you do not agree. Why not? Why do you think these two groups can co-exist in a peaceful way?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yes, if there weren't so many here with mushy, brown, stinky matter between their ears, hey?

Still waiting for your condemnation of Tuckems, Marge, and Gosar.

[rocket surgeon]

What did I "rant" about in that post?

You're like the people at the Florida Freedom Summit who tried to cancel Christie.

  essentially about every other one of your posts is a subliminal rant about the orange man in one form or another. 

hey, hows about that insurrection at the people's house there today.  makes the one you guys imagined look like playing a little footsie.  blm was down there taking notes

[Uncle Rico]

  essentially about every other one of your posts is a subliminal rant about the orange man in one form or another. 

hey, hows about that insurrection at the people's house there today.  makes the one you guys imagined look like playing a little footsie.  blm was down there taking notes

9 out of 10

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

What Christie said isnt wrong though

Obligatory

[Heisenberg]

While that may be 1 theory, it is a poorly informed one. Derivatives of the word Palestine date back to the 12th century BC, where in Egyptian it was Palest, in the ancient Hebrew bible Pelistim (not right characters), and in Ancient Greek Palaistine.

It described a part of Canaan.

It is an ancient name for an ancient people/region.

I agree with this.

I laid out an accepted theory.  So did you.

Point is their is no accepted fact on where the name came from, just theories,

[Heisenberg]

Good profile of the big donor to Penn that seems to be leading the movement among all big donors everywhere to push back against antisemitism on campus.

—-

November 3, 2023
The Billionaire Donor Taking On His Alma Mater Over Antisemitism
Apollo CEO Marc Rowan wasn't vocal about social issues. Then Israel was attacked.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/the-billionaire-donor-taking-on-his-alma-mater-over-antisemitism-2d1637cd

When Marc Rowan's father died while he was a student at the University of Pennsylvania and the family could no longer afford tuition, the school told him he could finish paying whenever he was able.

Rowan sent the university the money a few months after graduation, using his first bonus from his job as a junior investment banker at Drexel Burnham Lambert. Grateful for its generosity, he kept giving to Penn as he climbed to the pinnacle of Wall Street power. He donated $50 million to its Wharton school in 2018, the largest gift the business school had ever received at the time.   

But after Hamas attacked Israel Oct. 7, Rowan, the chief executive of private-equity giant Apollo Global Management, went on television and said he is halting donations to his alma mater over its response to the conflict and antisemitism on campus. He is at the center of an alumni revolt against the school and has called for Penn's president and the chair of its board of trustees to step down.

Campaigning publicly for social issues is new for Rowan, who's better known for discussing the wonky ins-and-outs of finance. He runs a firm where top executives encourage sparring openly about business strategy in meetings, and now he's bringing that approach to the cloistered world of higher education.

What set off Rowan and other major donors was Penn's response to the violence in Israel. On Oct. 10, Penn President Liz Magill called the assault "horrific" but didn't explicitly condemn Hamas.

The donors had already been upset about what they saw as growing antisemitism on campus and the school's response to it.

"I don't think the intent was for it to be forceful," Rowan says of the response to the attacks. "I don't think the university gives a crap, to be candid."

On Oct. 15, Magill issued a follow-up statement condemning Hamas. On Wednesday, she announced new plans to combat antisemitism on campus.

Rowan, 61, spent much of his childhood in Long Island, N.Y. His father was in the auto-leasing business. His grandfather, Emanuel Stein, was born on New York's Lower East Side and spent decades as an economics professor at New York University, including a period as chairman of the department. He was known to quote Talmudic passages every now and then to help make a point. Stein's daughter, Rowan's mother Barbara, was a trained concert pianist. She was "the heart and soul of her family" and "all benefited from her love of Jewish heritage and culture," her 2014 obituary said.

The family moved to Hollywood, Fla., when Rowan was in high school. He graduated as valedictorian of his class at a local public high school in 1980 and went on to Wharton, one of the country's elite business programs. He relied on grants, student loans and jobs to help pay for school.

Rowan tapped into his entrepreneurial energy early on. A July 1981 advertisement in the school newspaper said students and parents interested in discounted phone calls should write to him for more information. He earned both his bachelor's and M.B.A. from the school.

"I can't help but love a place that I showed up with hair down to my shoulders and I ended up with a job," Rowan said at a January Goldman Sachs event. 

Rowan's first job was in the mergers and acquisitions department at Drexel. After the firm collapsed in 1990, he teamed up with other former Drexel employees at Apollo, which originally put investors' money to work in the rough-and-tumble world of distressed investments. Appetite for such "alternative" investments boomed in the decades that followed, making co-founders Rowan, Leon Black and Josh Harris billionaires.

The firm developed a reputation for being particularly cutthroat in an industry known for its aggressive tactics with deals like an investment in Caesars Entertainment that left the casino operator saddled with an insurmountable debt load.

Harris was also a Wharton graduate and Apollo hired heavily from the school. Alumni made up about 40% or 50% of the firm's employees, Rowan said in a 2009 podcast.

Longtime CEO Black stepped down in 2021 following a review of his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Rowan, who lives in Greenwich, Conn., won the top job.

Married with four children, Rowan started focusing more on philanthropy in his 50s. He joined Penn's board of trustees in 2016. He also chairs an organization that helps fund a network of schools in Israel called Darca schools. Earlier this year, Rowan left the Penn board when he became chair of the UJA-Federation of New York, but remained chair of Wharton's board of advisers.

Universities rely on big donors for key funding, but they are generally expected to stay out of day-to-day operations.

Professor Kent Smetters turned to Rowan when he was looking for a donor to back a project that would use complex data to provide a nonpartisan analysis of the federal budget.

"He's the perfect funder," Smetters said. "He's a data guy like me, but he's also hands off." 

When Smetters brought a group of about 40 students to Washington, D.C., last year, Rowan changed his schedule to make time to meet with them for over an hour at a local restaurant.

Rowan found that the Penn board of trustees had a different culture than Apollo. "In all the years I was a trustee, we never had a debate, we never had a discussion, we never made a hard decision," he says.

Andy Rachleff, a venture capitalist and 18-year Penn trustee, said Rowan "is attempting to strong arm the university using the classic Apollo playbook and we are not going to succumb to these tactics even if it results in lower donations. The soul of the university is not for sale."

Earlier this year, Rowan and other prominent alumni learned about a Palestinian literary festival scheduled to be held on campus in September. Cosmetics tycoon Ronald Lauder, who has a university degree program named after him, traveled to Philadelphia to relay his concerns to Magill about speakers at the event espousing antisemitic views. In two follow-up calls, he urged her to cancel the festival.

Rowan, Lauder, investor Ross Stevens and other alumni wrote an open letter to Magill expressing concerns about the festival's content. Eventually, over 4,000 others signed the letter.

Top school officials released a statement condemning antisemitism ahead of the literary festival.

Board of Trustees Chair Scott Bok suggested that Rowan and three trustees who signed the open letter step down from their roles, Rowan says. Bok said he didn't try to force anyone to resign.

Immediately after the Hamas attacks, Rowan started a fundraising campaign for the Darca schools. The push raised millions of dollars for emergency financial help for displaced students and laptops for those who now need to attend school remotely. Nearly 40 graduates and students were killed by Hamas, said Gil Pereg, CEO of the schools.

Rowan watched President Magill post on Instagram about her dog. Three days after the attacks, she said: "We are devastated by the horrific assault on Israel by Hamas that targeted civilians and the taking of hostages over the weekend."

Rowan fired off an op-ed to the Penn school newspaper. He wrote that he regretted not doing more to change the direction of the school as a trustee. The paper didn't publish it immediately, so he went on CNBC.

"Microaggressions are condemned with extreme moral outrage and yet violence, particularly violence against Jews, antisemitism, seems to have found a place of tolerance on the campus," Rowan said on the air.

"It was like a little spark in the forest that lights a wildfire," says Penn alum Eric Zinterhofer, a founder of buyout firm Searchlight Capital Partners and Lauder's son-in-law. "There was so much frustration already."

Other major Penn donors including Jon Huntsman Jr., Lauder and Law & Order creator Dick Wolf have announced plans to halt or reconsider donations over the issue.

Rowan's email address started circulating in alumni groups. He began getting copied on 50 to 100 messages a day to the administration from people from all walks of life. Rowan is keeping close track of the people he has heard from and, including the signers of the open letter, says they now number around 7,000.

[Heisenberg]

Not a good day at the Israeli embassy in DC.  We have an ugly, ugly, problem that's not going to get better while Israel does what she needs to do.  Very sad.  And pathetic.  And embarrassing.  Imagine if this was happening to any other minority group?  It's just not right.

This is pure antisemitism hate.  This is pro-hamas


Calls for violence against Jews rock DC amid massive pro-Palestinian protest
The antisemitic graffiti calling for 'Death to Israel' was discovered as thousands of Pro-Palestinian protesters descended on Washington, D.C.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/calls-violence-against-jews-rock-dc-amid-massive-pro-palestinian-protest

[4everwarriors]

https://www.standwithus.com/_files/ugd/46fc49_02c57b3496984cd4ab30fc4c06c5c588.pdf

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  essentially about every other one of your posts is a subliminal rant about the orange man in one form or another. 

hey, hows about that insurrection at the people's house there today.  makes the one you guys imagined look like playing a little footsie.  blm was down there taking notes

The 1,100 people charged for crimes on Jan 6th are going to be thrilled to know it was all imagined.

[Heisenberg]

hey, hows about that insurrection at the people's house there today.  makes the one you guys imagined look like playing a little footsie.  blm was down there taking notes

The last time something like this happened (hint almost 3 years ago), hundreds of national guard troops were called to DC

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-palestinian-protesters-seen-shaking-white-house-gate-vandalized-red-paint-joe-biden

A White House fence was vandalized Saturday night with red paint as pro-Palestinian protesters shook the gate to one entrance to the executive mansion as some chanted F--k Joe Biden, the New York Post reported.

——-

And the sad thing is it might work to get Biden to abandon Israel, as his Islamaphobia commission is not doing the trick.

Democrats are believing this narrative.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democratic-house-member-accuses-biden-of-supporting-palestinian-genocide/ar-AA1jmosT

Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) accused President Biden of supporting the "genocide" of Palestinians amid Israel's war with Hamas in Gaza, saying that Americans will remember his actions when he's up for reelection in 2024.

Lefties in panic (not National Review)

Biden's 2024 team roiled by Israel-Hamas war
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/04/biden-2024-team-israel-hamas-war-election-dnc

Part of President Biden's political team is in turmoil over the Israel-Hamas war, as some aides see the White House as abetting an immoral attack on Palestinians — while others believe Biden is showing "moral clarity" in protecting Israel from terrorists.

—————

If Biden abandons Israel (by calling for a cease fire, which is telling them to give up and not try to get rid of Hamas anymore), and Israel feels isolated, they will go scorched earth as they see it as a fight for their survival. They cannot lose this fight. They cannot show weakness. They cannot stop.

And see the profile above of the billionaire donors to Universities, see the letter sent to over 100 law school deans a few pages back I posted .... If Biden abandons Israel, and they go scorched earth, the considered might of the Jewish community in the US will be thrown behind the Orange Man, and that will matter.

Remember Ivanka is Jewish (converted for Jared), and Trump's grandchildren are Jewish, Trump moved the US Embassy to Jerseluem (which is in the West Bank) and tore up the Iran Nuclear deal.

While some sociopaths here will violently disagree, in Tel Aviv and the board room where wealthy Jewish Americans reside, all view the Orange Man as the most pro-Israel President ever. And while they don't like him, if this is fight for the survival of Israel, nothing else will matter to rich Jewish Americans.

All other issues will be pushed aside for them, they will use their considerable might, and huge sums of money to get a pro-Isreal President in the White House ASAP.

Will Biden cave to the progressives and abandon Israel?

I honestly do not know, will give it 50/50.

[4everwarriors]

BOTUS is a dead man walking. He's talking out of both sides of his ass. But, he's neither smart enough, nor clever enough to pull it off, even with BO calling the shots.
Notice how abortion has now been taken off the the table as the next election hot button, hey?

[Jockey]

Sorry. Abandoning Israel and calling for a cease fire are not the same thing. There will eventually be a cease fire.

Then, Israel - with the help of the US and other Allies - needs to carry out a purge of all levels of Hamas leadership just like Mossad did after the Olympic murders.

[Jockey]

BOTUS is a dead man walking. He's talking out of both sides of his ass. But, he's neither smart enough, nor clever enough to pull it off, even with BO calling the shots.
Notice how abortion has now been taken off the the table as the next election hot button, hey?

Thanks for your daily dose of ignorance.

Stick to 'Crean sucks'. It shows much more insight.

[MU82]

  essentially about every other one of your posts is a subliminal rant about the orange man in one form or another. 

hey, hows about that insurrection at the people's house there today.  makes the one you guys imagined look like playing a little footsie.  blm was down there taking notes

So, to answer my question, nothing in my post was a "rant. Thanks.

You are a deeply ill person. I truly, truly feel sorry for you.

[4everwarriors]

Sorry. Abandoning Israel and calling for a cease fire are not the same thing. There will eventually be a cease fire.

Then, Israel - with the help of the US and other Allies - needs to carry out a purge of all levels of Hamas leadership just like Mossad did after the Olympic murders.

You're premise is 💯 per cent wrong, hey?

[Lennys Tap]

Sorry. Abandoning Israel and calling for a cease fire are not the same thing. There will eventually be a cease fire.

Then, Israel - with the help of the US and other Allies - needs to carry out a purge of all levels of Hamas leadership just like Mossad did after the Olympic murders.

Eventually? Yeah, pretty safe bet the war won't go on forever. Also a pretty safe bet that Israel has no appetite for one just yet. The president had strong support in both Muslim and Jewish communities so he has to straddle the fence a bit with elections only a year away. The Israelis don't view that as their problem.

[MuggsyB]

This is pure antisemitism hate.  This is pro-hamas


Calls for violence against Jews rock DC amid massive pro-Palestinian protest
The antisemitic graffiti calling for 'Death to Israel' was discovered as thousands of Pro-Palestinian protesters descended on Washington, D.C.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/calls-violence-against-jews-rock-dc-amid-massive-pro-palestinian-protest

This is beyond awful.  Everyone here should be outraged by this despicable display here and throughout Europe.  What is wrong with you people??  If anything there should be far LESS antisemitism now, not more.  Why aren't most of you condemning these "protests," and the behavior of these monumental asshats?  Where is the screaming from the rooftops from leaders around the world about this hatred?

Instead we have asinine takes that Israel should "pause"/have a cease-fire or that they are engaging in genocide.  Uh.....no.  Not true and not happening.  Let them defend their country, get as many of these scumfks as possible, and support them 100%.  Support our Jewish communities fully here in the United States. There's a ton that needs to be done before they are even close to any discussions of a cease-fire or the future of Gaza. 

[forgetful]

I actually think you are a serious person. Those comments were more directed at the idea that someone puts out a ton of facts, like you and me, one or two might be wrong. If you does not distract from the larger point ... so what! It does not mean EVERYTHING they say, or believe, is wrong. Hence not a serious person..

The only people that don't make mistakes are those that don't try to offer an opinion support with facts. Those that scream someone is not a serious person are gaslighting about themselves.

——

Ok, that said ....

The difference between us is really about what we THINK is happening in the Middle East. I do not think the Palestinians and the Israelis can never be compatible.  The have two vastly different worldviews that cannot be reconciled.

It think I've explained why i think they cannot  above.

I assume you do not agree. Why not? Why do you think these two groups can co-exist in a peaceful way?

Appreciate the pleasant tone/sentiment.

Regarding the 2nd part. I do think they can be compatible, but it will take time. I think UN supervision of parts of the region with a 2-state solution is necessary. The UN can suppress Palestinian extremists, while making sure no settlements are made. That can go a long way to creating trust, and a vision for the people of a peaceful existence.

The first step is to get the extremists on both side out of the decision making positions.

Will it work, I'm hopeful, but I'm certain the alternatives are not viable. I've been worried about war spreading through the region with the current situation, but things could blow up huge and it would be bad for everyone.

Let's look at one alternative. Israel expels residents of Gaza to Egypt. That would create momentary peace, but you would have uproar throughout the Islamic community. That would create more extremists, which at first governments like Egypt/Saudi Arabia/Turkey/Jordan may be able to quell, but eventually if nothing is done about the Palestinian situation, they will overthrow their governments, and install ones that are more militaristic towards Israel. Eventually resulting in widespread war throughout the Middle East. Israel very likely might win that war, but it would just create another cycle...eventually there will be one they can't win.

Another alternative...the attack Lebanon and Iran now angle that Muggsy has proposed. This would result in immediate widespread war, possibly bringing in Nato allies (Turkey), as well as US allies Saudi Arabia. One might want to say that Saudi Arabia would not join a war on the side of Iran. But when it comes to Palestine, there is widespread unity throughout the Islamic community that Palestine should be free. A full scale attack by Israel and the US on Iran, Lebanon+Syria, maybe Jordan, in the backdrop of what is going on in Gaza very easily could look like a full scale attack on Islam, which would have the populations calling for action, and if they don't act, possibly trying to overthrow their governments.

If the UN does not step in and make sure that there is a two state solution, the long term outcomes almost assuredly is widespread death and destruction, including in Israel.

[MU82]

This is beyond awful.  Everyone here should be outraged by this despicable display here and throughout Europe.  What is wrong with you people??  If anything there should be far LESS antisemitism now, not more.  Why aren't most of you condemning these "protests," and the behavior of these monumental asshats?  Where is the screaming from the rooftops from leaders around the world about this hatred?

Instead we have asinine takes that Israel should "pause"/have a cease-fire or that they are engaging in genocide.  Uh.....no.  Not true and not happening.  Let them defend their country, get as many of these scumfks as possible, and support them 100%.  Support our Jewish communities fully here in the United States. There's a ton that needs to be done before they are even close to any discussions of a cease-fire or the future of Gaza.

Not sure who "you people" are, but I obviously strongly condemn this sh!t.

Anti-Semitism in the U.S. has been bad as long as I've been alive. It was bad in Charlottesville, when very fine people carried torches and chanted, "Jews will not replace us!" It was bad 2 years ago when Marjorie Taylor Greene said wildfires were caused by Jewish Space Lasers. It was bad a few months ago, when the previous president dined with Nick Fuentes and Kanye West. It was bad 60 years ago and 30 years ago and 10 years ago and 1 year ago. And yes, it's really raging now because these dopes turn to hate and even violence to try to make their points. One thing history has taught us for millennia: It's always easy to blame the Jews.

Israel needs to eliminate Hamas, period. It is war, and innocents will die, as they always do in times of war.

Having said all of that, reasonable people can disagree on some things in a forum like this. I'm not going to call everybody who disagrees with me an anti-Semite. That would be both inaccurate and unproductive.

Nor am I going to pretend I have all the answers, or a workable plan of any particular number of points. Because I don't. And neither do you.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is beyond awful.  Everyone here should be outraged by this despicable display here and throughout Europe.  What is wrong with you people??  If anything there should be far LESS antisemitism now, not more.  Why aren't most of you condemning these "protests," and the behavior of these monumental asshats?  Where is the screaming from the rooftops from leaders around the world about this hatred?

Instead we have asinine takes that Israel should "pause"/have a cease-fire or that they are engaging in genocide.  Uh.....no.  Not true and not happening.  Let them defend their country, get as many of these scumfks as possible, and support them 100%.  Support our Jewish communities fully here in the United States. There's a ton that needs to be done before they are even close to any discussions of a cease-fire or the future of Gaza.

I do condemn that graffiti (not free speech) as well as anyone who has expressed similar sentiments (free speech). I don't condemn anyone who uses their right to peacefully demonstrate in support of either Israel or Palestine (not Hamas, I strongly condemn anyone who expresses support for Hamas or their actions) and I definitely don't condemn those who peacefully demonstrate in support of peace. I don't know that peace is possible or a reasonable expectation at this point in time, but I strongly believe that it must be the end goal.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

This is fascinating from a not so distant past, of how American politics were influencing and received in the region compared to now. Completely flip flopped.

https://x.com/vptevo/status/1719771298014859518?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg

Since then United States has pretty much adopted the AIPAC rhetoric for the issue (right or wrong, not the point of this observation) that the U.S. should not only support Israel, but that this support be an unquestioned bipartisan matter.

Where I begin to have more difficulty though, is that we are supposed as citizens accept as just part of life that the United States must send billions of dollars in aid to one of the wealthiest countries on the planet, every single year, but does not DARE ask for anything in return.

Maybe someone smarter than me here can correct any falsehoods here.

Anyway, it is remarkable how far a lobbying dollar can go in regards to national bipartisan policy. If in 30 years it has changed so extensively across the entire political spectrum.

[Heisenberg]

I do condemn that graffiti (not free speech) as well as anyone who has expressed similar sentiments (free speech). I don't condemn anyone who uses their right to peacefully demonstrate in support of either Israel or Palestine (not Hamas, I strongly condemn anyone who expresses support for Hamas or their actions) and I definitely don't condemn those who peacefully demonstrate in support of peace. I don't know that peace is possible or a reasonable expectation at this point in time, but I strongly believe that it must be the end goal.

How do you separate pro-Palestinian from pro-Hamas in these protests? They all chant "from the river to the sea" and other anti-Israel pro-Hames slogans. Speakers say the same.

They are pro-Hamas which is why the Jewish community is scared, upset and pushing back in ending donations to Universities.

[Heisenberg]

On Saturday, Bill Ackman sent a long letter to Claudine Gay, the President of Harvard. He posted it here.

https://x.com/billackman/status/1720987581549080965?s=61&t=Kba4MD7iUYHMRlrUOaqrng

If you think this is purely about the first amendment, read this letter. He details the physical assaults and verbal abuse Jewish students are constantly under at Harvard. He did not call on Gay to resign, largely because she has only been their four months. But it reads as a final warning, and changes, suspensions and even explosions better commence immediately.

Ackman's voice on this issue matters. He lead the boycott of getting jobs if you are pro-Hamas. He's a big donor to the school and he already had a personal relationship with most, if not all, the trustees before October 7.

Harvard Students are not alone. Cornell canceled classes Friday, see the Marc Rowan profile above about Penn, Columbia is the same.

It is happening at every university in the country. As a Midwest Jesuit university, MUs Jewish population is very small. But assume they feel the same, have endured the same.

[Heisenberg]

Sorry. Abandoning Israel and calling for a cease fire are not the same thing. There will eventually be a cease fire.

Then, Israel - with the help of the US and other Allies - needs to carry out a purge of all levels of Hamas leadership just like Mossad did after the Olympic murders.

Munich was a terrorist attack on foreign soil by the Black September group 51 years ago. October 7 was the government of a neighboring foreign country invading Israel and killing over 1,400 and taking 230 hostages.

Their response was exactly the same to both.

Israel slaughtered every known member of Black September as quickly as possible, and while they made every effort to prevent civilian casualties in this effort, they did not let the potential of civilian casualties stop them.

They are doing the same in Gaza right now.

——

Implied in your post is a belief that this was not a foreign invasion representing a threat to the existence of Israel. Implied in your post is this should be viewed as a glorified police action against a small set of criminals and nothing more.

Your implication is not shared by Israel, the US government and most of the American public.