Feinstein Dead at 90

[The Sultan]

Yes.    However, McCarthy probably could have avoided it if he had not turned on the Democrats over the weekend after using them to keep the government running.    Don't get a continuing resolution and then turn on those who gave you the votes.   

Dems weren't going to support McCarthy without significant concessions. There is no way Republicans would have gone along with that even if he did.

[Golden Avalanche]

I think the opposite is true. But you guys can have your fun pretending Rs would think rationally. Trump just called for the execution of all shoplifters and what R said "Hey, that's crazy"? The majority of them supported the overthrow of the US government.

But, yes they would do the rational thing.

You guys are as loony as they are if you think Dems voting for a snake like McCarthy would work.

Agreed to this main thrust.

Galaxy brain stuff to see people think the Democratic party is responsible for upholding an institution and doing the bidding of the Speaker when they are the minority.

In a two party system when one of the those two has actively decided that democracy is more a shrug and not a foundational principle I am not absolving the arsonists of blame while I look at the firefighters and say "do more, do more".

[MU82]

All I'm saying is that the devil the Dems know might have proven less awful than the person likely to end up as speaker.

Others are free to disagree, and some already have.

[The Sultan]

All I'm saying is that the devil the Dems know might have proven less awful than the person likely to end up as speaker.

Others are free to disagree, and some already have.

The political calculus is that this new Speaker will be more problematic for Republicans than for Democrats because he/she will insist on creating headlines that will make Republicans seem even nuttier in 2024.

A government shut-down doesn't help the Republicans.

[MU82]

The political calculus is that this new Speaker will be more problematic for Republicans than for Democrats because he/she will insist on creating headlines that will make Republicans seem even nuttier in 2024.

A government shut-down doesn't help the Republicans.

It's probably true that is the Dems' political calculus. And the end result you suggest could prove true, too.

[Jockey]

Dems weren't going to support McCarthy without significant concessions. There is no way Republicans would have gone along with that even if he did.

Exactly what I said (although you may have said it a bit more rationally).

[SoCalEagle]

All I'm saying is that the devil the Dems know might have proven less awful than the person likely to end up as speaker.

Others are free to disagree, and some already have.

82 I'm with you 100%.  The problem is that the Dems often reach out to compromise only to have the Republicans either reject it or play it against them later.  Look at healthcare (Dems went with a Republican plan from the Heritage Foundation not universal coverage), or free trade (in spite of opposition from unions, the Dems adopted the Republican position on NAFTA), or foreign affairs (who is strong v Russia now?).  The list goes on and on with the Republicans arguing against positions they once held just so they have something to use against the Dems.  Need more? Look at the The Gang of 8 in the Senate who agreed to immigration reform (rejected by the hard right), or entitlement reform like The Grand Bargain (again rejected by the hard right).  So I agree with you that it may have been helpful for the Dems to reach out and help the Republicans again, but I wouldn't put it past the Republicans to blame it all on the Dems immediately thereafter. 

[Pakuni]

The Dems could regret giving the wingnuts power here.

Had a handful of moderate Dems voted against the ouster, keeping McCarthy as speaker, it would have rewarded compromise and pre-empted future attempts by Gaetz and his small band of anti-democracy yahoos to try to take over the government.

McCarthy was a lousy speaker who bent the knee at the alter of the seditionist god even after having correctly (albeit briefly) blamed the future criminal defendant for fomenting a violent coup attempt against America. But McCarthy at least was the devil the Dems knew, and a guy who at times was willing to work across the aisle for what he felt was the good of America.

Reagan is spinning in his grave today, and Tip O'Neill might be, too.

The very worst politicians in America got exactly what they wanted -- and it has absolutely nothing to do with deficit-reduction, governing or serving their constituents. They got attention, chaos and, most importantly, attaboys from the 91-felony criminal defendant they worship.

It's hard to see McCarthy's ouster turning out well for our great democratic republic.

The notion that it was somehow incumbent upon the Democrats to save McCarthy and the rest of the
GOP from the monsters they created and empowered is a farce. Particularly after McCarthy publicly stated he didn't want the Dems support and would offer no concessions in return.

To borrow a tweet I saw, the stance of the "sane" GOP here seems to be:
"Democrats are communist satanist pedophile dictators who want to destroy America, and also it is their solemn responsibility to protect us from the rabid lunatics in our own party, in exchange for nothing."

Will the next Speaker be worse? Perhaps. But again, that's not the Democrats' problem to fix.

[Uncle Rico]

The notion that it was somehow incumbent upon the Democrats to save McCarthy and the rest of the
GOP from the monsters they created and empowered is a farce. Particularly after McCarthy publicly stated he didn't want the Dems support and would offer no concessions in return.

To borrow a tweet I saw, the stance of the "sane" GOP here seems to be:
"Democrats are communist satanist pedophile dictators who want to destroy America, and also it is their solemn responsibility to protect us from the rabid lunatics in our own party, in exchange for nothing."

Will the next Speaker be worse? Perhaps. But again, that's not the Democrats' problem to fix.

Dems in disarray

[dgies9156]

Dems in disarray

Candidly, Congress is in disarray. The problem is the Administrative State is stepping in to fill the void. Absent Congress starting to collectively do what the American people sent them to do, the Administrative State will become much more paramount.

The Cheeto talks about "draining the swamp." If you want to drain the swamp, you begin by having Congress do its job and the President working with the Congress to get things done. Otherwise, career bureaucrats with no sense of how things work outside Interstate 495 will find ways to enhance their power and their control over everyday life.

[MU82]

The notion that it was somehow incumbent upon the Democrats to save McCarthy and the rest of the
GOP from the monsters they created and empowered is a farce. Particularly after McCarthy publicly stated he didn't want the Dems support and would offer no concessions in return.

To borrow a tweet I saw, the stance of the "sane" GOP here seems to be:
"Democrats are communist satanist pedophile dictators who want to destroy America, and also it is their solemn responsibility to protect us from the rabid lunatics in our own party, in exchange for nothing."

Will the next Speaker be worse? Perhaps. But again, that's not the Democrats' problem to fix.

I agree with most of this. I also never said it was the Dems' responsibility to save McCarthy from the GOP or the GOP from itself.

The idealist in me would like a functioning government and a little less drama to get us there. But I'm a realist, too.

Meanwhile, I did just read two articles about how much the vast majority of Republicans in Congress truly hate Gaetz. They were fun reads, filled with quotes from those who are furious with him, but they helped create that monster, too.

[WhiteTrash]

I am going to paint with a broad brush: the GOP is a joke and deserves what they get. It will be hard to convince the voters who actually decide elections that they are the party to vote for.

[4everwarriors]

Lotsa golf yet ta bea played, aina?

[Jockey]

I need fresh blood.

[lawdog77]

I am going to paint with a broad brush: the GOP is a joke and deserves what they get. It will be hard to convince the voters who actually decide elections that they are the party to vote for.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

[Uncle Rico]

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

And no nation embraces its stupidity quite like America

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Candidly, Congress is in disarray. The problem is the Administrative State is stepping in to fill the void. Absent Congress starting to collectively do what the American people sent them to do, the Administrative State will become much more paramount.

The Cheeto talks about "draining the swamp." If you want to drain the swamp, you begin by having Congress do its job and the President working with the Congress to get things done. Otherwise, career bureaucrats with no sense of how things work outside Interstate 495 will find ways to enhance their power and their control over everyday life.

Sorry, but this is silly bothsiderism. Congress isn't in disarray, one side of Congress is in disarray...the side that has no interest in governing but all the interest in throwing bombs and enriching themselves from the ensuing chaos. The side that, if Mitt Romney is to be believed, is afraid for the safety of themselves and their families if they vote against their cult leader. The side whose last four Speakers were 1) forced to resign by its own party, 2) quit because the monster they had created was ungovernable, 3) ditto, and 4) was voted out...not to mention their past Speaker who was jailed for being a pedophile.

Spare me the take that this is a both sides problem.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Will the next Speaker be worse? Perhaps. But again, that's not the Democrats' problem to fix.

Or, as was so eloquently stated, "Not my monkey. Not my circus."

[Hards Alumni]

This is one point, Brother MU, you and I absolutely agree. Had the Democrats intervened, McCarthy would have owed them and the spirit of compromise might have prevailed in the House. Instead, as you note, we're headed for chaos.

Now back to the main topic. I'm not a liberal Democrat but I respected Senator Feinstein greatly. She was a trailblazer for women in the Senate and she represented her constituents well. You have to admire that. She was a great American and she will be missed.

BAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAAH.  McCarthy showed the Dems his true colors two days earlier.  He would have owed them, but never would have paid.

Good Lord, man, the facts are out there.

Feinstein was great, and then the year 2010 hit and she didn't retire.

[Hards Alumni]

Meanwhile, Butler, da Newsom appointed U.S. senator, resides in Maryland. What da fook is goin' on in dis turd world country, formally known as da USA, hey?

He wasn't going to appoint anyone you liked anyway, so why do you care?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I am going to paint with a broad brush: the GOP is a joke and deserves what they get. It will be hard to convince the voters who actually decide elections that they are the party to vote for.

Which is why I say let them continue fighting with each other over complete stupidity.

[Pakuni]

I agree with most of this. I also never said it was the Dems' responsibility to save McCarthy from the GOP or the GOP from itself.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that was your stance. It's been the stance among some McCarthy supporters and non-MAGA Republicans.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

He wasn't going to appoint anyone you liked anyway, so why do you care?

Because that's what Fox told him to be angry about today

[JWags85]

Because that's what Fox told him to be angry about today

I mean it's objectively a huge joke and pandering bastardization of what should be done in that situation.  But at the same time, it's the kind of shady grey area maneuvering the GOP has been fantastic at for a decade that the Dems haven't been able to counter or refuse to.  So there's that.

This really should the catalyst for the fracturing of the framework of the 2 party system and allow for more representative parties/candidates.  But we know that has 0% chance of happening

[NCMUFan]

And no nation embraces its stupidity quite like America

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUIX2-akuQ