2024-25 NFL Thread

[Pakuni]

The conclusion I would draw is that Steichen is the real reason for the offensive success and just move on.

Anyway, we will see if it works.

The Eagles' problem this year wasn't really the offense, though.
There was a slight  dip - from 5.9 yards per play to 5.4 and 2.5 points per drive to 2.33. But the larger issues were on defense, from 4.8 yards per play to 5.5 and 1.78 points per drive to 2.35.

[wadesworld]

Obviously somebody will be happy to take those jobs.  But I'd imagine it will be hard for the Eagles to land proven coordinators, knowing that if the Eagles have another 1 and done Playoff appearance next year Sirianni is gone, which means they'll once again be looking for a new job.

[Herman Cain]

https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/sports/falcons-front-office-against-hiring-bill-belichick-bill-simmons/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The Eagles' problem this year wasn't really the offense, though.
There was a slight  dip - from 5.9 yards per play to 5.4 and 2.5 points per drive to 2.33. But the larger issues were on defense, from 4.8 yards per play to 5.5 and 1.78 points per drive to 2.35.

Then why are they ditching the offensive coordinator?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://nypost.com/2024/01/22/sports/falcons-front-office-against-hiring-bill-belichick-bill-simmons/

Did he really refer to 64 year old Rich McKay as "John McKay's kid?"

[MU82]

After the Panthers fired their GM, they hired his best friend and long-time assistant (back to their Seattle days), former Panthers LB Dan Morgan, to take his place.

As a fan, I hope Morgan does a great job. But I go in starting with serious doubts: 1) that this is an actual upgrade; and 2) that he can keep Tepper from being the de facto GM.

[Jockey]

After the Panthers fired their GM, they hired his best friend and long-time assistant (back to their Seattle days), former Panthers LB Dan Morgan, to take his place.

As a fan, I hope Morgan does a great job. But I go in starting with serious doubts: 1) that this is an actual upgrade; and 2) that he can keep Tepper from being the de facto GM.

Bad teams are bad because of who is at the top. It is not about players. Every team has the same player pool to choose from.


The Packers had 2 decades of futility because of leadership - being run like a mom & pop business in a dog-eat-dog world.

[Pakuni]

Then why are they ditching the offensive coordinator?

Don't know. Maybe that was the edict from on high.
They're also ditching the defensive coordinator.
Regardless, the Eagles defense is what did them in.
They still had a top 10 offense this year, both in points scored and yards.
The defense, on the other hand, went from 8th to 30th in points allowed, and 2nd to 26th in yards allowed.

[GB Warrior]

I'm not sure why the Eagles decided to hold onto Sirianni, yet both of his coordinators have been fired. Does that ever work?

This is, in my opinion, why having a coach that calls plays (specifically offense) is important. Coaching staffs change, whether by promotion or firing, and that increases the risk of a HC hire that doesn't innately have the skills to weather that.

[JWags85]

Did he really refer to 64 year old Rich McKay as "John McKay's kid?"

64 year old Rich McKay who was a GM for almost 20 years (and built a SB winner in Tampa) before becoming CEO of the Falcons, also oversaw the building of both Raymond James Stadium and MB Stadium, but yea...just some nobody nepo baby.

[MUBurrow]

Why does the Belichick and Harbaugh derby seem to center around Atlanta?  On paper, their roster situation would seem worse than San Diego's for sure, probably Seattle's, and similar to Washington's.  Is it just the preference to work for Blank vs the other owners? 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Don't know. Maybe that was the edict from on high.
They're also ditching the defensive coordinator.
Regardless, the Eagles defense is what did them in.
They still had a top 10 offense this year, both in points scored and yards.
The defense, on the other hand, went from 8th to 30th in points allowed, and 2nd to 26th in yards allowed.

This article disagrees that the offense wasn't a problem.

https://theathletic.com/5221550/2024/01/23/brian-johnson-fired-eagles-offensive-coordinator-nfl/

The Eagles failed to maintain the fullness of its offensive dominance after the departure of Steichen. Sirianni attempted to foster continuity by promoting Johnson from quarterbacks coach to offensive play caller. Although the offense excelled at times to begin the season, the system broke down toward the end of the season in a succession of offensive series that often appeared disjointed, predictable and ineffective in crucial situations.

The Eagles struggled to secure a true offensive identity and the system often appeared in conflict with itself. Johnson tried to empower quarterback Jalen Hurts by equipping the quarterback with a list of checks that he could use at the line of scrimmage. Sometimes this worked. Hurts checked to a game-changing deep pass to DeVonta Smith against the Kansas City Chiefs. Sometimes it failed. A.J. Brown said they'd improvised the damning play against the Seattle Seahawks in which Hurts threw a game-ending interception while trying to throw deep to Brown in double coverage.

The achievements and accolades offensive players still secured in 2023 make the system's failures even more confounding. Brown logged the franchise's second-most receiving yards in a season (1,456). D'Andre Swift rushed for a career-high 1,049 yards and was named to his first Pro Bowl. Hurts broke Cam Newton's NFL record with 15 rushing touchdowns by a quarterback, often via the mostly unstoppable "Brotherly Shove."

Still, the Eagles failed to score 20 points in five of their final seven games. Hurts struggled mightily against the blitz, and Sirianni, Johnson and the offensive staff did not appear to supply Hurts with sufficient answers against heavy rushes in predictable passing situations.

That the Eagles were incapable of fielding even a mediocre offense during the season's catastrophic collapse was a severe indictment. — Brooks Kubena, Eagles beat writer

[Uncle Rico]

Why does the Belichick and Harbaugh derby seem to center around Atlanta?  On paper, their roster situation would seem worse than San Diego's for sure, probably Seattle's, and similar to Washington's.  Is it just the preference to work for Blank vs the other owners?

Chargers are considered cheap by some NFL folks.  There is concern Seattle could be for sale in the near future.  Just some guesses, though, the Seattle one doesn't seem to have much legs

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think Atlanta might be the only team that has any interest in Bellichick.

[Pakuni]

Why does the Belichick and Harbaugh derby seem to center around Atlanta?  On paper, their roster situation would seem worse than San Diego's for sure, probably Seattle's, and similar to Washington's.  Is it just the preference to work for Blank vs the other owners?

I may be an outlier here, but I think the Falcons roster situation is good other than at QB (which yeah, is kind of important).
Other than that, they have good young players at the skill positions, a good offensive line and a good-enough defense. And they play in the league's weakest division with a good owner who's willing to spend.

The Chargers have Herbert, which is obviously huge, but what else? Derwin James is either cooked or was playing very hurt last year. Bosa is very good, but often hurt. Can't imagine they're bringing back Ekeler at his age. Keenan Allen will soon turn 32. Mike Williams is another guy who can't stay healthy. Khalil Mack has a $38.5 million cap hit next year, so I can't imagine he's back. The o-line stinks. Their last two first-round picks are venturing into bust land. And the Spanos family aren't known for their willingness to invest in the team.

The Charges still have tons going their way, but I can see why some might view the Falcons as an equally/more attractive option.

[Pakuni]

This article disagrees that the offense wasn't a problem.

I didn't write that. I wrote that the defense was a much bigger problem.

[JWags85]

I may be an outlier here, but I think the Falcons roster situation is good other than at QB (which yeah, is kind of important).
Other than that, they have good young players at the skill positions, a good offensive line and a good-enough defense. And they play in the league's weakest division with a good owner who's willing to spend.

The Chargers have Herbert, which is obviously huge, but what else? Derwin James is either cooked or was playing very hurt last year. Bosa is very good, but often hurt. Can't imagine they're bringing back Ekeler at his age. Keenan Allen will soon turn 32. Mike Williams is another guy who can't stay healthy. Khalil Mack has a $38.5 million cap hit next year, so I can't imagine he's back. The o-line stinks. Their last two first-round picks are venturing into bust land. And the Spanos family aren't known for their willingness to invest in the team.

The Charges still have tons going their way, but I can see why some might view the Falcons as an equally/more attractive option.

Yea its interesting.  You have the Chargers with one of the best young QBs in the league but notoriously stingy and not well-liked ownership.  Then the Falcons, no QB but a better overall situation with good young weapons and a really good owner.  Both have great new stadiums in fairly desirable places to live with NFL HC resources...but also, one is in a division with Patrick Mahomes and the other is in a division with Bryce Young, Derek Carr, and whoever they replace Baker with.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I didn't write that. I wrote that the defense was a much bigger problem.

So when you said this...

The Eagles' problem this year wasn't really the offense, though.

And quoted stats like this...

They still had a top 10 offense this year, both in points scored and yards.

and this...

There was a slight  dip - from 5.9 yards per play to 5.4 and 2.5 points per drive to 2.33.

...you didn't say that the offense wasn't a problem?

[Pakuni]

...you didn't say that the offense wasn't a problem?

Right.
They scored the 7th most points in the league and gave up the 30th most.
Feel free to look at that and argue "Boy, the offense is what really killed them this year."
I'll disagree.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Right.
They scored the 7th most points in the league and gave up the 30th most.
Feel free to look at that and argue "Boy, the offense is what really killed them this year."
I'll disagree.

I posted the article from the Athletic that outlines why those who follow the team thought it was a problem.  Frankly I will take their assessment more seriously than your simple reciting of season-long statistics.

[Pakuni]

I posted the article from the Athletic that outlines why those who follow the team thought it was a problem.  Frankly I will take their assessment more seriously than your simple reciting of season-long statistics.

Thanks for being frank.
But if cutting and pasting someone else's thoughts is all it takes (very Heisey):


The real culprit is Eagles' Defense

The defense has been worse. Much, much worse. There's been no return to the light for it like there has been for the offense. Three weeks ago, the Eagles tried shaking things up at play caller by turning to Matt Patricia to replace Sean Desai, but that's proven to be nothing more than a different presentation of the same poor results.

This is an Eagles defense that could not recreate the magic from last season to begin with, and it has atrophied as this season has gone along. The cost of min-max roster building and the misfortune of a nasty injury bug turned this unit into an almost unrecognizable entity from the force we saw a year ago.

Sadly for the Eagles, this isn't a situation with a clear diagnosis. There's no one issue or position group plaguing them. All three layers of the defense have varying issues, ranging from a practice squad-caliber linebacker group to a defensive line that is producing well below its talent level on paper.

Regression Starts Up Front

Let's start with the underwhelming defensive line. By and large, it's the same unit as last season as far as the main characters go. First-round draft pick Jalen Carter replaced veteran defensive tackle Javon Hargrave, who signed with the 49ers in free agency, but it's the same dudes otherwise. The rest of the starting lineup and most of the key role players are unchanged.

And yet, that same group cannot get to the quarterback the way it could a year ago. The 2022 Eagles recorded 70 sacks, the third-most in NFL history. They have 41 through 16 games this season, right in lockstep with the NFL average. There would always be some regression after a near-historic season in 2022, but falling back down to average hurts.

A lot of the issue is their ability to get it done on clear passing downs. Last year, the Eagles dominated on third down. They produced a 23.4 percent sack rate, by far the best in the league.

So much of that was their creativity in how they attacked the quarterback. Then-defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon loved to place five rushers on the line of scrimmage and threaten all five linemen. He also constantly changed up who was coming from where, using twists and stunts with great success.

That aspect of the defense died in 2023. Desai's, and now Patricia's, defenses don't do as impressive a job mixing up their rush paths and disrupting them. They attack with five rushers less often, and their four-man rush approach features a lot more of a "line up and play" mentality.

The stale approach has turned the Eagles from the fiercest third-down pass rush in the league to the worst, only getting home on 7.5 percent of third downs this season.

The issue up front is less about the talent and more about how the talent is being used.

Back seven suffers from talent Deficiency

For the second and third levels of the defense, that's not the case. The Eagles have a talent deficiency at each level that has limited them schematically in a big way.

Linebacker is a clear pain point for the Eagles. It was always going to be given how they handled the offseason. The linebacker corps was the weakest part of the Eagles' defense last year, but T.J. Edwards at least gave them stable play in the run game and Kyzir White's athleticism made him a useful player in coverage and on the perimeter. Far from a perfect duo, but a functional one.

Edwards and White walked in free agency. Philly's plan to replace them was 2022 third-round pick Nakobe Dean, who came into the league with shoulder injuries and a small frame, and journeymen Nicholas Morrow and Zach Cunningham.

Dean has not been healthy for most of the year. Morrow and Cunningham have missed time, forcing the Eagles to turn to undrafted rookie Ben VanSumeren, Christian Ellis and a depleted version of Shaq Leonard, whom the Colts cut midseason, at different points. It's been bad.

Safety Turns Into a Black Hole

The poor linebacker play is only exacerbated by issues at safety. Last year, Chauncey Gardner-Johnson and Marcus Epps led the charge. Gardner-Johnson was a safety/nickel hybrid who could play legit man-to-man coverage and Epps brought a ton of speed and energy, even if sometimes misguided.
Arizona Cardinals running back James Conner runs through the Philadelphia Eagles
The Philadelphia Eagles defense appeared powerless against James Conner and the Arizona Cardinals. (Bill Streicher-USA TODAY Sports)

Philly's new safeties have not been up to the same standard. Reed Blankenship has been a replacement-level player. Terrell Edmunds was shaky before being traded to the Tennessee Titans in exchange for Kevin Byard, who has been better but not in such a way that has altered the defense's fate.

As Desai and Patricia have discovered, there's only so much you can do as a playcaller when linebackers can't cover whatsoever, and the safeties have no discernible skills that unlock schematic answers.

None of the Eagles' current linebackers can run in man coverage, and they aren't as sound in zone coverage as Edwards and White were at times. Byard and Blankenship are fine players at safety, but neither can go toe-to-toe with a tight end or slot receiver in man coverage the way Gardner-Johnson could.

Finding answers on defense starts with having players who can solve problems. There just aren't players like that up the spine of the Eagles defense. That's not to excuse Desai or Patricia entirely, but at a certain point, there's only so much you can do unless you want to fully lean into the psycho realm Brian Flores has entered with the Minnesota Vikings, which is not a turn the defense can make one week before the postseason.

Is There a Solution?

Therein lies the bitter truth for the Eagles: it's hard to find the fix. The middle of the defense doesn't have the bodies, and we're far too late in the season to adopt a new identity entirely.

Perhaps the same could have been said about the Buffalo Bills a month ago, but even that was a different circumstance. The Bills, though also gutted by injury, at least had the fallback of schematic continuity. Coach Sean McDermott has been there for years. His system and his language has been in place for a long time. That makes it easier to insert backups into the lineup and cover up the pain points in the defense.

The Eagles don't have that. Not only did they begin the year with a new defensive coordinator, but they installed another one with a month left in the season. Continuity is a foreign concept for this Eagles defense.

It's more than likely this is just what the Eagles defense is for the remainder of the season. And if that's the case, it won't be good enough to compete with the best in the NFC.


https://www.the33rdteam.com/the-philadelphia-eagles-have-a-defense-problem/

[Pakuni]

Raiders reportedly hiring Tom Telesco as GM.
Not sure what they're thinking with that one. At least they're not bringing him on to hire a coach.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Thanks for being frank.
But if cutting and pasting someone else's thoughts is all it takes (very Heisey):

Shifting goalposts. Very Heisey of you.

(I never said defense wasn't a problem.)

[Pakuni]

For those of you looking for a DC (looking at you, Packers and Eagles), Vic Fangio has hit the open market.

[CreightonWarrior]

For those of you looking for a DC (looking at you, Packers and Eagles), Vic Fangio has hit the open market.

Sounds like Eagles is basically already done.