Scoop Airport/Hotel/Travel Thread

[DegenerateDish]

Good news for travelers ...

The Biden administration issued final rules Wednesday to require airlines to automatically issue cash refunds for things like delayed flights and to better disclose fees for baggage or canceling a reservation.

The Transportation Department said airlines will be required to provide automatic cash refunds within a few days for canceled flights and “significant” delays.

Under current regulations, airlines decide how long a delay must last before triggering refunds. The administration is removing that wiggle room by defining a significant delay as lasting at least three hours for domestic flights and six hours for international ones.

Airlines still will be allowed to offer another flight or a travel credit instead, but consumers can reject the offer.

The rule will also apply to refunds of checked-bag fees if the bag isn’t delivered within 12 hours for domestic flights or 15 to 30 hours for international flights. And it will apply to fees for things such as seat selection or an internet connection if the airline fails to provide the service.

https://apnews.com/article/airlines-junk-fees-baggage-delays-c4a93f9ee9a2bf7d9ee07394183a0374?

This is a terrible idea and will be a disaster.

[Hards Alumni]

Why's that?  Year over year flights get worse and delays (anecdotally) increase.  In the last decade I've spent more time 'in line' on the tarmac, waiting for a gate after landing, or sitting around for maintenance to be done on a plane.  I cannot comprehend how in a world of more efficiencies that air travel has become significantly less efficient.  I think the only thing that has improved has been the TSA lines... but don't get me started on those.

And now prices have gotten to a point where everything for every airline is ala carte.   Wifi?  $8 upcharge!  Bring a suitcase?  $60+ upcharge per bag!  Want a beer or decent snack?  That'll be another $10-$20. 

My international flight from Spain to JFK ran out of anything but vegan options by the time they got to the back of the plane.  Hope you like tofu curry! (I don't have a problem with it, but a LOT of the people around us did!)  Furthermore, my MIL has special dietary restrictions and requires a special meal... which was ordered ahead of time on both the US to EU trip and the return.  Neither time was her meal provided as ordered, and when asked about it, the flight attendants said they only have what they have.  She didn't get anything to eat for her entire transatlantic flights.

Not to mention there is less room on planes.  Brought your size approved carry on?  Oh so sorry, you didn't upgrade your seat to a priority boarding number so we've got to gate check it for you to your final destination!  Hope you didn't need anything from it!  I have a picture of me and the leg room on my most recent flight from MSN to DEN, and my knees were less than an inch from the seat in front of me... and I'm 5'10. 

It's awful.  I hate flying in the current environment.  Regulate the hell out of it.  If they have to raise prices by 5% or 10% across the board so be it, but fix it.

[MU82]

This is a terrible idea and will be a disaster.

Why?

[DegenerateDish]

Why?

The unintended consequences of this are no bueno.

There is zero chance airlines would eat the cost on these refunds. Zero.

That 3 hour weather delay cancelled your flight? The refund is great, until you’re completely on your own, stranded, and having to re-book at a higher cost, with limited options.

Low fare carriers are no longer going to be low fare carriers.

There’s good intentions with the idea, but we’re all going to be footing the bill on this.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Why's that?  Year over year flights get worse and delays (anecdotally) increase.  In the last decade I've spent more time 'in line' on the tarmac, waiting for a gate after landing, or sitting around for maintenance to be done on a plane.  I cannot comprehend how in a world of more efficiencies that air travel has become significantly less efficient.  I think the only thing that has improved has been the TSA lines... but don't get me started on those.

And now prices have gotten to a point where everything for every airline is ala carte.   Wifi?  $8 upcharge!  Bring a suitcase?  $60+ upcharge per bag!  Want a beer or decent snack?  That'll be another $10-$20. 

My international flight from Spain to JFK ran out of anything but vegan options by the time they got to the back of the plane.  Hope you like tofu curry! (I don't have a problem with it, but a LOT of the people around us did!)  Furthermore, my MIL has special dietary restrictions and requires a special meal... which was ordered ahead of time on both the US to EU trip and the return.  Neither time was her meal provided as ordered, and when asked about it, the flight attendants said they only have what they have.  She didn't get anything to eat for her entire transatlantic flights.

Not to mention there is less room on planes.  Brought your size approved carry on?  Oh so sorry, you didn't upgrade your seat to a priority boarding number so we've got to gate check it for you to your final destination!  Hope you didn't need anything from it!  I have a picture of me and the leg room on my most recent flight from MSN to DEN, and my knees were less than an inch from the seat in front of me... and I'm 5'10. 

It's awful.  I hate flying in the current environment.  Regulate the hell out of it.  If they have to raise prices by 5% or 10% across the board so be it, but fix it.

The travelling public treats airline tickets like a commodity.

[MU82]

The unintended consequences of this are no bueno.

There is zero chance airlines would eat the cost on these refunds. Zero.

That 3 hour weather delay cancelled your flight? The refund is great, until you’re completely on your own, stranded, and having to re-book at a higher cost, with limited options.

Low fare carriers are no longer going to be low fare carriers.

There’s good intentions with the idea, but we’re all going to be footing the bill on this.

Maybe it went too far with the weather delay part of this, but that also took away airlines claiming it's a weather delay when it really isn't.

With all delays ... airlines still will be allowed to offer another flight or a travel credit instead, but consumers can reject the offer; the way things currently stand, the airlines have all the power but bear little to none of the responsibility.

Airlines historically have never eaten the cost of anything, including their own egregious mistakes. Dish, the same argument could be made about any regulations, including safety regulations. I hope you'll agree that we need those.

I guess we'll have to see on all of this. You do make some good points, as usual.

[JWags85]

The unintended consequences of this are no bueno.

There is zero chance airlines would eat the cost on these refunds. Zero.

That 3 hour weather delay cancelled your flight? The refund is great, until you’re completely on your own, stranded, and having to re-book at a higher cost, with limited options.

Low fare carriers are no longer going to be low fare carriers.

There’s good intentions with the idea, but we’re all going to be footing the bill on this.

That was some of my thoughts on this as well.  These will definitely be passed on and people declining the airlines rebooking offers is gonna mess up things for others.

I can understand this for international flights but domestic will be messy.

Not to mention there is less room on planes.  Brought your size approved carry on?  Oh so sorry, you didn't upgrade your seat to a priority boarding number so we've got to gate check it for you to your final destination!  Hope you didn't need anything from it! 

I hear your other points, but this is largely related to people abusing carry on sizes and quantities.  I was on a new plane recently that had the larger deep overhead compartments and still saw multiple that had 1-2 less bags that it should hold because people had a non carry on wedged in there sideways.  None of the major US carriers scrutinize sizes with much consistency from what Ive seen.

[Hards Alumni]

Maybe it went too far with the weather delay part of this, but that also took away airlines claiming it's a weather delay when it really isn't.

With all delays ... airlines still will be allowed to offer another flight or a travel credit instead, but consumers can reject the offer; the way things currently stand, the airlines have all the power but bear little to none of the responsibility.

Airlines historically have never eaten the cost of anything, including their own egregious mistakes. Dish, the same argument could be made about any regulations, including safety regulations. I hope you'll agree that we need those.

I guess we'll have to see on all of this. You do make some good points, as usual.

Yep, same with "excessive air traffic".  Come on, everyone knows how many flights are going to be in the air weeks ahead of time.  I caught a 'weather' delay at DCA for my 1pm flight for 'snow'.  It had snowed the night before and when we were up walking around town at 10am there was no snow anywhere except sidewalks on the North sides of the buildings.  The inbound aircraft we were scheduled to use was supposed to be inbound from CHA that day.  There was no weather at CHA, and the snow was gone.  But it cost me another day in DC including hotel accommodations and food.  Luckily, we got receipts for everything and our credit card reimburses us for such things, but I imagine there are a lot of people who don't know or have these sort of things.

[Hards Alumni]

I hear your other points, but this is largely related to people abusing carry on sizes and quantities.  I was on a new plane recently that had the larger deep overhead compartments and still saw multiple that had 1-2 less bags that it should hold because people had a non carry on wedged in there sideways.  None of the major US carriers scrutinize sizes with much consistency from what Ive seen.

I don't disagree, but almost every flight I've recently been on they force the checked carry ons only on the last two boarding groups.  And it feels like a rule that they just do that.  I've been on newer planes as well, and some of them have egregious head space and a lack of storage.  It seems like a bit of a mixed bag.  I've also been on flights where they say no more roller bags and when I get to my seat there are entire empty overhead bins... and they don't get filled by the time the flight departs. 

I will say the leg from LAX to ORD the gate agent only stopped people who had more than two things, and bags that were clearly too big.  I'm fine with that, but it needs to be enforced properly like this guy did.

Personally, I'd like a clear cut "Here are the rules of flying".  I'm also 100% for repeated violators being suspended temporarily for violating those rules.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I'm just glad here in Paris they called off the one day air traffic control flight so I can fly home on time.

[tower912]

The airline industry is Boeing to hell in a handbasket.

[WarriorFan]

I feel so very badly for USA domestic frequent flyers.  The airlines are abusively horrendous, the airports are dumps, transport to/from and around the airports is awful and the prices just keep going up.

I travel mostly international, and usually my goal is to get on an international carrier from ORD and not risk any domestic US Chaos.  Last week it was unavoidable and I had to transfer over JFK.  OMFG.  Circled several times before landing, waited for a parking spot, waited interminably for my bag (I had to go out and collect a bag and re-check it because the airline couldn't figure out how to check it or me through to international!!!!), waited for check-in, waited for security (pre-check line was about 1 hour long), and then had to wait to get into the Delta lounge!  I really feel that never would be too soon to return to JFK. 

My international travels are mostly to developing and poor countries.  Most of their airports are better than the typical US airport.  Of course they were probably built with loans from China, but who cares - if it works???

[JWags85]

My international travels are mostly to developing and poor countries.  Most of their airports are better than the typical US airport.  Of course they were probably built with loans from China, but who cares - if it works???

 
I think this is a function of the airports foreigners travel to in that country.  Usually its the big international airport that also functions as a tourist/national pride selling point.  Take India, the airports in Mumbai and Bangalore are beautiful...Kolkota, Hyderbad, and others are mediocre to hot garbage.  I flew into Jakarta and its a gorgeous glass beauty.  Flew out of a smaller domestic Jakarta airport to another island to visit retail stores and there were very much developing country crap airports.

SFO, EWR, Tom Bradley Terminal at LAX, etc... are similar flagship airports in the US and they aren't dumps.  They aren't trying to be spectacles like SE Asia or Middle East airports, so its weird to expect them to be.

[Hards Alumni]

 
I think this is a function of the airports foreigners travel to in that country.  Usually its the big international airport that also functions as a tourist/national pride selling point.  Take India, the airports in Mumbai and Bangalore are beautiful...Kolkota, Hyderbad, and others are mediocre to hot garbage.  I flew into Jakarta and its a gorgeous glass beauty.  Flew out of a smaller domestic Jakarta airport to another island to visit retail stores and there were very much developing country crap airports.

SFO, EWR, Tom Bradley Terminal at LAX, etc... are similar flagship airports in the US and they aren't dumps.  They aren't trying to be spectacles like SE Asia or Middle East airports, so its weird to expect them to be.

???  Newark?

[JWags85]

???  Newark?

Have you been to the new Terminal A?  Its beautiful.  And Terminal C isn't a gleaming jewel but its not a "dump" or substandard in aesthetics in any way.  Terminal B needs a refresh but its the next in line.

[Hards Alumni]

Have you been to the new Terminal A?  Its beautiful.  And Terminal C isn't a gleaming jewel but its not a "dump" or substandard in aesthetics in any way.  Terminal B needs a refresh but its the next in line.

I have not been to the international terminal... and I had no idea it was even a realistic option.  I've flown into EWR more than 10 times and I can't wait to get out of the airport usually.  lol.

[JWags85]

I have not been to the international terminal... and I had no idea it was even a realistic option.  I've flown into EWR more than 10 times and I can't wait to get out of the airport usually.  lol.

I mean, what airport do you want to linger in after arrival?  Outside of a handful of airports in MENA/SE Asia that are legitimately meant to be more than an airport, something that just won't happen in the US, nobody is hanging around after they arrive inbound.  I don't measure that as what makes a decent/good airport

I was just countering that the major US airports are some hellhole compared to "developing" country aiports.  LGA before the remodel was a dump. 

[Hards Alumni]

I mean, what airport do you want to linger in after arrival?  Outside of a handful of airports in MENA/SE Asia that are legitimately meant to be more than an airport, something that just won't happen in the US, nobody is hanging around after they arrive inbound.  I don't measure that as what makes a decent/good airport

I was just countering that the major US airports are some hellhole compared to "developing" country aiports.  LGA before the remodel was a dump.

LGA was awful, but I haven't flown in there in a few years since the revamp, but I've heard it's much better.  BWA is not great, DCA, not great... I don't like DFW.  A lot of the 'bad' ones were partially because of the TSA lines and overall madness.  Strangely, I don't mind CHA, ATL, ORD, MSP, DET.

I don't linger after arrival, but my wife has travel anxiety and likes to get to the airport early... This is where a lot of my negative judgements come from.

[JWags85]

LGA was awful, but I haven't flown in there in a few years since the revamp, but I've heard it's much better.  BWA is not great, DCA, not great... I don't like DFW.  A lot of the 'bad' ones were partially because of the TSA lines and overall madness.  Strangely, I don't mind CHA, ATL, ORD, MSP, DET.

I don't linger after arrival, but my wife has travel anxiety and likes to get to the airport early... This is where a lot of my negative judgements come from.

Old LGA was absurd.  Literally felt like a set of a movie set in 70s NYC, expected to see older style Taxis outside.  Speaking of DCA, IAD is also pretty dumpy.  Parts are fine, but the lower ceilings and color scheme make it seem dingy.  DFW has nice parts, other parts stink.  I actually rather like IAH now that I connect there more after moving South.  Its huge, but its airy and well laid out.


Unrelated to airports, I know Chick and Glow, but any other Southwest regulars here?  Read an article about how they are looking into changing some of their boarding/seating situations.  A decent amount has been made about the abuse of preboarding groups.  Seems everyone I talk to has a story about being in the A boarding group and still having 25-30 people boarding before them.  I recently flew SW to NY due to a scheduling emergency, during boarding there were 7 or 8 wheelchairs for disabled folks boarding early.  By some in air miracle...only one person needed a wheelchair to disembark!

Its certainly not to shame or discredit the truly disable and fully understand that not every disability is easily seen, but rather the unfortunate tendency for many people to take advantage of lax policies.  Hell on that same flight, in front of us in the  boarding with families with small children group, there was a girl being held by her father that was close to double my son's size and he's 19 months old and at the 97th percentile for height.  She was most likely in kindergarten.  Again, on most flights, who cares, but when seating is first come first serve...

[Hards Alumni]

Old LGA was absurd.  Literally felt like a set of a movie set in 70s NYC, expected to see older style Taxis outside.  Speaking of DCA, IAD is also pretty dumpy.  Parts are fine, but the lower ceilings and color scheme make it seem dingy.  DFW has nice parts, other parts stink.  I actually rather like IAH now that I connect there more after moving South.  Its huge, but its airy and well laid out.


Unrelated to airports, I know Chick and Glow, but any other Southwest regulars here?  Read an article about how they are looking into changing some of their boarding/seating situations.  A decent amount has been made about the abuse of preboarding groups.  Seems everyone I talk to has a story about being in the A boarding group and still having 25-30 people boarding before them.  I recently flew SW to NY due to a scheduling emergency, during boarding there were 7 or 8 wheelchairs for disabled folks boarding early.  By some in air miracle...only one person needed a wheelchair to disembark!

Its certainly not to shame or discredit the truly disable and fully understand that not every disability is easily seen, but rather the unfortunate tendency for many people to take advantage of lax policies.  Hell on that same flight, in front of us in the  boarding with families with small children group, there was a girl being held by her father that was close to double my son's size and he's 19 months old and at the 97th percentile for height.  She was most likely in kindergarten.  Again, on most flights, who cares, but when seating is first come first serve...

Disney parks say hi!

[Badgerhater]

I fly about ten times a year from Milwaukee and the gate at the other airport is always at the very end of the dumpiest terminal.

[4everwarriors]

Heard LGA, before the renovation, was a third world country, hey?