2024-25 NFL Thread

[forgetful]

That's not totally fair.  He did good stuff in Cleveland. He took over a dumpster fire, got them to the playoffs and won a game and then they were a popular Super Bowl pick heading into 95 before Modell turned the franchise on its head with the shock move announcement.

I think the latter is the issue, he's not been a good GM at all for awhile. I think a HUGE part of why he was successful as both was Scott Pioli.  That was really the building blocks of the dynasty.  Then by the time Pioli left they had a stacked roster and a superstar QB.  That made up for a lot of roster issues going forward. 

So you have a combination of a system that was wildly successful but the rest of the NFL caught up to, as they do, a lacking GM who probably has too much on his plate now, and flawed nepotism/loyalty with coaching.  It's hard to notice/correct that when you're full bought into your own merited past genius.

Even with a really good Brady, they still wouldn't be the class of the AFC, much less the NFL.

There is a lot of accuracy in this post.

And controversial statement. Had Brady stayed in NE instead of going to TB, they likely wouldn't have been any better than they've been without him. Brady in part left, because he couldn't have success in NE with the way their line deteriorated and with their lack of skill players.

He chose TB, because they had a dominant offensive and defensive line, and strong WRs...which meant he could win there.

Brady was smart, he knew what he needed to have success at his age and to continue playing. TB had it, NE didn't.

[PointWarrior]

Giants are a fraud, were last year too...

[MU82]

And controversial statement. Had Brady stayed in NE instead of going to TB, they likely wouldn't have been any better than they've been without him.

That's not "controversial," it's simply an unprovable opinion. We all have them.

As for the Bears being better off with Belichick at least partly because of the way Bears coaches have ruined Justin Fields ... Mac Jones says hi.

[Lennys Tap]

Seattle, which has had a winning record in 10 of the last 11 seasons and made the playoffs in nine of them, passed him up.

The Eagles have done very well, but even they're a great illustration of the fluky/random nature of the draft.
Howie Roseman's last 10 first-round drafts include:
2014: Marcus Smith, started 0 games, out of the league since 2018
2015: Nelson Algohor, five disappointing seasons in Philly, now on his fifth team
2016: Carson Wentz, out of the league
2019: Andre Dillard, in Tennessee after only nine starts over three seasons with the Eagles
2020: Jaelen Reagor, out of the league

That's five missed picks in his last 10 first rounds. That's not to say Roseman is bad - he's obviously very good - but don't tall into the trap of thinking "the Eagles did it, so it must be a great move." Everyone misses.

Again, nobody is surprised that Carter is good. Literally everyone knew Carter was good. The question is, and remains, will Monday through Saturday Jalen Carter eventually catch up with Sunday Jalen Carter.
Plenty of questionable character guys looked great at first, only to implode (see: Darrell Russell, Aldon Smith, Aaron Hernandez, etc.). I hope that's not the case for Carter, but it's way too early to be declaring victory there.

"Literally everyone knew Carter was good" vs 5 #1s out of 10 who weren't good (crapshoot). And actually everyone knew that Carter was VERY good, quite possibly the most talented player in the draft. Thanks for pointing out why Carter was a no brainer at #9 (Bears) or #10 (Eagles). If there's a 50% chance you'll get a bum anyway, why not take a guy with "history" but top tier talent?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

"Literally everyone knew Carter was good" vs 5 #1s out of 10 who weren't good (crapshoot). And actually everyone knew that Carter was VERY good, quite possibly the most talented player in the draft. Thanks for pointing out why Carter was a no brainer at #9 (Bears) or #10 (Eagles). If there's a 50% chance you'll get a bum anyway, why not take a guy with "history" but top tier talent?

Yeah, unless you have guys graded real close to one another, its not the worst thing in the NFL to take a risk on high level talent. And to be clear about Carter, he didn't have a reputation as a chronic trouble maker right? It's just that his January incident was REEEEAAALLLYYYY bad.

And has been pointed out, even good GMs miss on first round picks regularly.  Ron Wolf drafted 10 first round picks for the Packers and the only one to make the pro bowl was....Bubba Franks.  He made up for it being really good in other rounds though, which is where IMO the good GMs excel.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Seattle, which has had a winning record in 10 of the last 11 seasons and made the playoffs in nine of them, passed him up. 

Maybe because they knew they had someone better in Witherspoon.

[jficke13]

Giants are a fraud, were last year too...

Don't people have to think that you're good in order to be a fraud?

[JWags85]

Don't people have to think that you're good in order to be a fraud?

I don't think anyone thought they were good by this point, but people thought they were on the cusp last year, very high in Daboll, big expectations going into this season.

But there is no bigger fraud than Daniel the Hustler Jones.  Second worst contract in NFL history behind Kyler Murray.  (Not counting Watson cause he was a far superior QB before the allegations and it remains to be seen if he gets back to Pro Bowl level, it's only been 9 games back

[MU82]

Daboll and Jones were not best buds last night.

[JWags85]

Daboll and Jones were not best buds last night.

I still am high in Daboll as an offensive mind (maybe not as a HC yet) but I think this is the first time in a decade he hasn't had elite talent.

He was the TE coach for the Pats after Gronk was already a monster.  Then the OC for a Bama team that had 3 NFL starting QBs, 2 future first rounders and 2 3rd rounders at RB, and 4 first rounders at WR.  Then once he got to Buffalo, Allen was raw but he was an elite talent.  Jones is none of that and he doesn't have his star WR.

If he can't work with and maneuver around this diversity, he's just another of many OCs that a great with studs but can't make lemonade out of lemons

[Pakuni]

Yeah, unless you have guys graded real close to one another, its not the worst thing in the NFL to take a risk on high level talent. And to be clear about Carter, he didn't have a reputation as a chronic trouble maker right? It's just that his January incident was REEEEAAALLLYYYY bad.

No, he had a reputation as a chronic troublemaker. Not so much legal stuff (though there are other instances of excessive speeding), but being late for meetings and practices, poor effort, arguing with coaches, fighting teammates, etc. It's telling that the Georgia coaching staff essentially washed their hands of him when he declared for the draft.
And it didn't help when he showed up to his pro day overweight and unable to finish drills.

I think it's worth taking into account the different environments Carter would find himself in with the Bears vs the Eagles. Philly has a veteran, successful team with a core leadership group and several former Georgia teammates. It's also a place where he wouldn't have to step in right away and be "The guy."
The Bears, on the other hand, are a trainwreck, with no apparent leadership, no indication success on the horizon and no talent that would allow Carter to grow into his role and not be the focus of opponents' blocking schemes.

I'm not saying the Bears were right or wrong here. The jury is still out there. But it wasn't some outlandish, unreasonable decision, regardless of how it turns out. The red flags on Carter were real and led several teams to take him off their boards.

[Pakuni]

I don't think anyone thought they were good by this point, but people thought they were on the cusp last year, very high in Daboll, big expectations going into this season.

But there is no bigger fraud than Daniel the Hustler Jones.  Second worst contract in NFL history behind Kyler Murray.  (Not counting Watson cause he was a far superior QB before the allegations and it remains to be seen if he gets back to Pro Bowl level, it's only been 9 games back

Plenty of people here said I was wrong when I bashed the contract Jones got during the offseason.

[Jockey]

I think it's worth taking into account the different environments Carter would find himself in with the Bears vs the Eagles. Philly has a veteran, successful team with a core leadership group and several former Georgia teammates. It's also a place where he wouldn't have to step in right away and be "The guy."
The Bears, on the other hand, are a trainwreck, with no apparent leadership, no indication success on the horizon and no talent that would allow Carter to grow into his role and not be the focus of opponents' blocking schemes.

This exactly. And it all starts at the top - especially Poles. They had a boatload of cap space. Sign a top DL and a top OL. Get veteran leadership.

[MU82]

Hard to believe the Lions aren't even a 10-point favorite over the Panthers.

[SoCalEagle]

Hard to believe the Lions aren't even a 10-point favorite over the Panthers.

"On any given Sunday ...."

[WhiteTrash]

Hard to believe the Lions aren't even a 10-point favorite over the Panthers.

The Bear's only got 12.5 at KC.
Easy money.

[tower912]

Hard to believe the Lions aren't even a 10-point favorite over the Panthers.

Historically, this is a game Detroit would find a way to lose.   Perhaps even Vegas has some reservations.

[wadesworld]

9 point wins in the NFL are big wins.  Especially when it can be 15 with 2 minutes left and the trailing team scores a touchdown to cut the lead.

[MU82]

The Bear's only got 12.5 at KC.
Easy money.

KC-Chicago was one of the two best bets of the football season so far IMHO. The other was Colorado being only a 3-point favorite over Nebraska.

I wouldn't put Detroit -9 over Carolina up there with those. But the Panthers are a mess and the Lions, playing at home, aren't. I just think this one could be really ugly, like 38-3 ugly.

Historically, this is a game Detroit would find a way to lose.

This Lions team has nothing to do with the 2019 or 2008 or 1984 Lions. I get fans' tendency to fixate on past failures, but c'mon.

9 point wins in the NFL are big wins.  Especially when it can be 15 with 2 minutes left and the trailing team scores a touchdown to cut the lead.

Fair.

[JWags85]

This Lions team has nothing to do with the 2019 or 2008 or 1984 Lions. I get fans' tendency to fixate on past failures, but c'mon.

The Lions could be 14-2 going into Week 18 this year and Tower would be grousing that they can still miss the playoffs cause it's the Lions

[tower912]

No, at that point, with that record, they will have clinched their first home playoff game in 30+ years.

[MU82]

The Lions could be 14-2 going into Week 18 this year and Tower would be grousing that they can still miss the playoffs cause it's the Lions

It's not just tower. It's classic fandom, especially for fans of franchises that haven't won in decades (or forever). I know a lot of big-time Cubbie fans, including the two I fathered, and they were convinced right up until the final out of the 2016 World Series that the Cubs would blow it.

I don't blame tower for being leery of these Lions because he and other Detroit fans have been burned many a time, but I also stated a simple fact that these Lions have nothing to do with those of yesteryear. And yesteryear's Lions definitely have nothing to do with the probability that these Lions are about to crush the Panthers.

[JWags85]

No, at that point, with that record, they will have clinched their first home playoff game in 30+ years.

It's not just tower. It's classic fandom, especially for fans of franchises that haven't won in decades (or forever). I know a lot of big-time Cubbie fans, including the two I fathered, and they were convinced right up until the final out of the 2016 World Series that the Cubs would blow it.

I don't blame tower for being leery of these Lions because he and other Detroit fans have been burned many a time, but I also stated a simple fact that these Lions have nothing to do with those of yesteryear. And yesteryear's Lions definitely have nothing to do with the probability that these Lions are about to crush the Panthers.

Fair, but part of fandom, even for beaten down organizations is excitement or hope.  I'm a Cubs fan, I know the sentiment you're referring to.  But I was excited and hopeful in 2015 and even after Daniel Murphy murdered the Cubs in the first NLCS appearance since Bartman, I was beyond excited and optimistic heading into 2016.

I respect Tower's struggle, and the struggle of all Lions fans, but I've not seen a single glimmer of excitement.  Just a gloomy "this is where it will probably fail" to every positive comment from neutral or even rival fans.   That's all I'm teasing about.

My good friend is a diehard Browns fan.  He was born in 88 so he's had basically only misters but he seems like an ultra Pollyanna in comparison

[MU82]

And BTW ... not only haven't the Panthers won yet, they also haven't covered the spread yet.

[DegenerateDish]

RIP Dick Butkus, one of the best linebackers to ever play the game. That SI cover of Butkus from 1970 remains an iconic image.