5 best baseball players of your lifetime

[Jay Bee]

Not sure why Ohtani is even in the conversation. We all know his blk% is zero.

[Lennys Tap]

I said he wasn't top 5 pre-steriods.

You said he wasn't top 5, and then said I was dead wrong. So you then moved the goalposts.

Really, when people say you've become Chicos maybe you should take it to heart.

Talk about moving goalposts. Here’s EXACTLY what you said:

“He was very good in his prime but FAR from the top 5. Pre steroids, was he in the conversation with Ruth, Williams, Spahn, Mays, Matthews et al”?

Very Good in his prime? You refer to Gwynn and Rod Carew as very, very good and Bonds pre steroids is “very good”? He was a freakin’ superstar. He won 3 MVPs by the age of 28 and had led the league in WAR at least 4 times. He was the best player in baseball. And you don’t think he belonged in the conversation with Eddie Matthews? LOL.

Pre steroid Barry Bonds was not a “very good player”. Baseball has seen thousands of those. He was, long before steroids, a cinch Hall of Famer.

If you want to stick to your guns that Bonds was merely a “very good player” and that when you say a guy doesn’t even belong in the same conversation with Eddie Mathews what you mean by that is he’s not quite top 5 all time, fine.

I smile when you call me Chico - as with others, it’s tantamount to admitting you’ve lost the argument. So thanks.

[Not A Serious Person]

In less than 6 years, Ohtani has a 145 average OPS+.

Willie Mays averaged a 155 OPS+ in 23 seasons.  Mays was faster and better defensively than Ohtani.

Ohtani, of course has the pitching stats. But he has to play at or close to his current level for many more years to be considered the GOAT.

Ohtani is a DH ... unsure about his defense.

Also, the question included the qualifier "of your lifetime."

His last season was 1973 - 50 years ago. How old are you?

[MU82]

Not sure why Ohtani is even in the conversation. We all know his blk% is zero.

Very nicely played.

[JWags85]

In less than 6 years, Ohtani has a 145 average OPS+.

Willie Mays averaged a 155 OPS+ in 23 seasons.  Mays was faster and better defensively than Ohtani.

Ohtani, of course has the pitching stats. But he has to play at or close to his current level for many more years to be considered the GOAT.

Honestly, I think that comparison shows very well to Ohtani.  Also the difference in style of play I think is meaningful.  Mays had plenty of power but was someone who hit for average and collected a lot of bases which definitely helps OPS+.  Ohtani is more of the best version of the 3 outcome hitter of modern baseball.

The fact that Ohtani is putting up a hitting season that is as high in OPS+ as Mays ever did and could surpass his bests in some other key stats...while also being top 10 in ERA, top 20 in Ws, top 5 in SOs, and top 5 in WHIP is just breathtakingly absurd.

[Jockey]

Honestly, I think that comparison shows very well to Ohtani.  Also the difference in style of play I think is meaningful.  Mays had plenty of power but was someone who hit for average and collected a lot of bases which definitely helps OPS+.  Ohtani is more of the best version of the 3 outcome hitter of modern baseball.

The fact that Ohtani is putting up a hitting season that is as high in OPS+ as Mays ever did and could surpass his bests in some other key stats...while also being top 10 in ERA, top 20 in Ws, top 5 in SOs, and top 5 in WHIP is just breathtakingly absurd.

I agree.

And I think we both agree that nobody in a major sport can be a GOAT in 5 1/2 years

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Talk about moving goalposts. Here’s EXACTLY what you said:

“He was very good in his prime but FAR from the top 5. Pre steroids, was he in the conversation with Ruth, Williams, Spahn, Mays, Matthews et al”?

Very Good in his prime? You refer to Gwynn and Rod Carew as very, very good and Bonds pre steroids is “very good”? He was a freakin’ superstar. He won 3 MVPs by the age of 28 and had led the league in WAR at least 4 times. He was the best player in baseball. And you don’t think he belonged in the conversation with Eddie Matthews? LOL.

Pre steroid Barry Bonds was not a “very good player”. Baseball has seen thousands of those. He was, long before steroids, a cinch Hall of Famer.

If you want to stick to your guns that Bonds was merely a “very good player” and that when you say a guy doesn’t even belong in the same conversation with Eddie Mathews what you mean by that is he’s not quite top 5 all time, fine.

I smile when you call me Chico - as with others, it’s tantamount to admitting you’ve lost the argument. So thanks.

The question wasn't how many variations of "good" to ladle on him, Cheeks, it was weather he was top 5 pre-steroids. I said he wasn't. You said he wasn't and that I was absolutely wrong. To cover up your reading comprehension problems, you changed the argument to how many "goods" and "greats" he should get.

Keep hauling those goalposts around, Cheeks. And maybe take some time for self-reflection.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The question wasn't how many variations of "good" to ladle on him, Cheeks, it was weather he was top 5 pre-steroids. I said he wasn't. You said he wasn't and that I was absolutely wrong. To cover up your reading comprehension problems, you changed the argument to how many "goods" and "greats" he should get.

Keep hauling those goalposts around, Cheeks. And maybe take some time for self-reflection.

🐷🐷

[Lennys Tap]

[td

The question wasn't how many variations of "good" to ladle on him, Cheeks, it was weather he was top 5 pre-steroids. I said he wasn't. You said he wasn't and that I was absolutely wrong. To cover up your reading comprehension problems, you changed the argument to how many "goods" and "greats" he should get.

Keep hauling those goalposts around, Cheeks. And maybe take some time for self-reflection.

My comprehension is just fine. The problem is you’re lying.

You’re the one who keeps running away from what you said - that a guy who had three MVPs and was widely recognized as the games best player didn’t belong to even be in the conversation with Eddie Mathews. That’s an indefensible position and a huge minimization of what Bonds was pre steroids. Instead of owning it and acknowledging that it was ridiculous you run and hide from it - not even acknowledging that you said it, claiming (outright lie) that all you ever said was that pre steroids Bonds wasn’t a top 5 all time player.

And then you name call and say I need to be more self reflective?

Time for you to cry wee wee wee all the way home.

[Not A Serious Person]

Are you guys not paying attention?

1. Ohtani
2. Ohtani
3. Ohtani
4. Ohtani
5. Ohtani


He is the best player since Babe Ruth. And at the rate he's going, especially this month, we might drop "Babe Ruth" from that statement.

(This thread reminds me of my friends in Boston in the early mid-1980s desperately trying to convince everyone that Wayne Gretzky was not as good as Bobby Orr.)

Earlier today Ohtani might have had the greatest single day in baseball history.

I reiterate my list above.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/38083821/ohtani-rewards-angels-faith-historic-1-hit-shutout-2-hrs-doubleheader

Ohtani's start was his best in the majors. He gave up one hit, walked three and struck out eight on 111 pitches, including fastballs nearing 100 mph and sliders and splitters that left the Tigers flailing. Ohtani improved to 9-5 with a 3.43 ERA on the mound.

In Game 2, Ohtani returned to the designated hitter role. The left-handed hitter hit a two-run homer to left in the second inning and a line drive to right-center in the fourth before Nevin pulled him out of the game after he was grimacing in pain.

[PBRme]

Ohtani
Mays
Clemente
Carew (completely underated)
Nolan Ryan

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would say that Rod Carew is underrated no doubt. But top 5?

And Nolan Ryan? If I were going for a dominant hard thrower, it would be Pedro Martinez at his peak hands down.

[MuggsyB]

Ohtani
Mays
Clemente
Carew (completely underated)
Nolan Ryan

Why would Clemente, Mays and Carew be ahead if Henry Aaron? 

[dgies9156]

Why would Clemente, Mays and Carew be ahead if Henry Aaron?

Because they never saw Henry Aaron play!

He was incredible.

[pbiflyer]

Marty Taylor. side arm left handed pitcher that had an unhittable curve ball. But girls distracted his high school career, then an auto wreck killed it, literally. RIP.

Oh, and Aaron. Saw his spring training games as a kid. Did I get an autographed ball? Yes. Did I lose it later? Yes. 

[21Jumpstreet]

Favorite Players:

-Rickey Henderson
-Ryne Sandberg/The Hawk/Maddux/All Cubs Really
-Don Mattingly/The Goose/Winfield
-Sandy (and Roberto) Alomar Jr/Julio Franco/Kenny Lofton
-Paul Molitor
-Mike Schmidt
-Terry Steinbach

Best:

Rickey
Maddux
Bonds
Griffey Jr
Randy Johnson

[Scoop Snoop]

I'm not a baseball fan, but this thread reminded me of a family story that was hilarious to everyone except one of my nieces. She never had any interest in team sports, but absolutely loves flyfishing. On one trip, she chatted from time to time with a nearby fly fisherman. At the end of the day, they decided to grab a quick meal and talk more about flyfishing. The guy said he was retired, and when my niece asked him what kind of work he had done, he replied that he played professional baseball.

When she told my brother and sister-in-law about the encounter, my brother asked what the guy's name was. It had been a while, so she struggled to remember, but eventually she said "Sandy......Koufax?"

Of course, she immediately regretted saying anything, as we all got a big laugh out of her not recognizing his name. Today the subject is strictly off limits as far as she is concerned.

[WhiteTrash]

I'm not a huge baseball guy, but where does George Brett fall in anyone's list? Is he a top 20 guy? I was not a Royals or Brett fan but he seemed damn good. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'm not a huge baseball guy, but where does George Brett fall in anyone's list? Is he a top 20 guy? I was not a Royals or Brett fan but he seemed damn good. 

I don’t think he is a top 20 all time position player. Mike Schmidt was better in the same era. Ditto Joe Morgan, who was a little older, and Cal Ripken who was a little younger.

But he’s right there after those contemporaries IMO.

[Mutaman]

I'm not a huge baseball guy, but where does George Brett fall in anyone's list? Is he a top 20 guy? I was not a Royals or Brett fan but he seemed damn good.

George Brett is the best baseball player i ever saw. I was at most of the Yankee -Royals Bronx post season games in the 70s and 80s, and the way Brett performed in front of 50,000 people who wanted to murder him was beyond description.