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Author Topic: 2023 Ryder Cup  (Read 12226 times)

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #100 on: August 31, 2023, 08:08:22 PM »
So Keegan, Cam and Glover aren’t part of the “cool guys” crew, Sam and JT are. Disgusting.

Team chemistry #nomatta?

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #101 on: August 31, 2023, 09:14:08 PM »
Quote from: Pakuni link=topic=64790.msg1568133 :-* :-*#msg1568133 date=1693530502
Team chemistry #nomatta?

Not nearly as much as how the players actually performed on the golf course last year/ last month. At least it shouldn’t.. If Scottie S wants to play with Burns or Spieth wants to play with JT they can do it at that team event in New Orleans next year. A spot on the Ryder Cup should be the reward for one’s play on the tour rather than one for being somebody’s pal.

This is an example of golf accomplishment # nomatta.



Pakuni

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #102 on: August 31, 2023, 10:54:20 PM »
Not nearly as much as how the players actually performed on the golf course last year/ last month. At least it shouldn’t.. If Scottie S wants to play with Burns or Spieth wants to play with JT they can do it at that team event in New Orleans next year. A spot on the Ryder Cup should be the reward for one’s play on the tour rather than one for being somebody’s pal.

This is an example of golf accomplishment # nomatta.

Honest questions, is there a direct correlation between play in the last month (or even year) and Ryder Cup success? And does past success in these competitions foretell future success?

If you think this is poor strategy, that's fair. Maybe it is.  But your insistence that there's some nefarious motive at play here is odd. Zach Johnson wants to win this thing way more than you do. He has a lot more riding on making the right choices than you ever will. To suggest that, with everything at stake, Johnson is intentionally sabotaging his chances of success to appease the "cool kids" is silly.

And no, a spot on the team shouldn't be a reward for anything.  Johnson's job is to assemble the best team he can, not to hand out rewards.

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2023, 12:16:11 AM »
Lenny is taking his frustrations out on the cool kids club.

MuggsyB

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2023, 04:09:22 AM »
I think 6 captain's picks is too many.  Zach Johnson wants to win of course but it's pretty clear Scheffler and Speith are the reason Burns and JT were chosen.  As far as whether there's a correlation between recent play and RC performance I don't know but JT has played so poorly it's honestly a joke he was selected..  And it's not like Speith has been on fire either. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 04:11:46 AM by MuggsyB »

jesmu84

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2023, 05:18:16 AM »
Honest questions, is there a direct correlation between play in the last month (or even year) and Ryder Cup success? And does past success in these competitions foretell future success?

If you think this is poor strategy, that's fair. Maybe it is.  But your insistence that there's some nefarious motive at play here is odd. Zach Johnson wants to win this thing way more than you do. He has a lot more riding on making the right choices than you ever will. To suggest that, with everything at stake, Johnson is intentionally sabotaging his chances of success to appease the "cool kids" is silly.

And no, a spot on the team shouldn't be a reward for anything.  Johnson's job is to assemble the best team he can, not to hand out rewards.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2023, 05:48:36 AM »
And it's not like Speith has been on fire either. 

You keep saying this like it’s correct.

rocket surgeon

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2023, 06:17:37 AM »
Freddie saying the crucial point out loud.   
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/fred-couples-keegan-bradley-ryder-cup-tight-quote

  so keegan didn't swap his piece of pizza for zj's liver and onion samich at the lunch table...


  put's the pressure on sam and further divides team usa

zach was not going to separate the tres amigos, but should have picked keegan over burns.  i love jordie, but he has been leaking oil.   shows spurts of greatness followed by talking to his imaginary friend
felz Houston ate uncle boozie's hands

MuggsyB

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2023, 06:31:30 AM »
You keep saying this like it’s correct.

Since Mid April he's had:

Two top 10's
Four Missed Cuts
Five nowhere near the top of the L-Boards.

He hasn't played particularly well the past four months. 

swoopem

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2023, 06:32:53 AM »
So Keegan, Cam and Glover aren’t part of the “cool guys” crew, Sam and JT are. Disgusting.

Do you like playing golf with your friends or having the starter pair you up with randoms?

Not sure why this is difficult to understand. Guys wanted their buddies on the team and they should. It’ll bring the best out of everyone. No one wants to play with Keegan.

USA is gonna dominate and JT will lead the way
Bring back FFP!!!

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2023, 06:42:32 AM »
Since Mid April he's had:

Two top 10's
Four Missed Cuts
Five nowhere near the top of the L-Boards.

He hasn't played particularly well the past four months. 

12th best American over the past 12 months. Top 9 past 18 and 24 months.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2023, 07:40:41 AM »
Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

Then why have captains picks at all?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Pakuni

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2023, 07:45:18 AM »
Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but I think Lenny just prefers a pure meritocracy

That would be a perfectly fine take. But Lenny seems unwilling to admit that there's a sound strategy behind the JT pick (record of success in these events, team chemistry) even if he disagrees with it. Instead he seems to imply ithere's some sort of ethical or moral failing here, rather than simply a different approach to team building.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 07:47:12 AM by Pakuni »

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2023, 07:58:37 AM »
That would be a perfectly fine take. But Lenny seems unwilling to admit that there's a sound strategy behind the JT pick (record of success in these events, team chemistry) even if he disagrees with it. Instead he seems to imply ithere's some sort of ethical or moral failing here, rather than simply a different approach to team building.

People enjoy being contrarian and seeking controversy.

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2023, 08:46:09 AM »
Do you like playing golf with your friends or having the starter pair you up with randoms?

Not sure why this is difficult to understand. Guys wanted their buddies on the team and they should.

So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2023, 09:14:38 AM »
So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

I think Keegan should be on the team over JT in a vacuum. Keegan is an irritant, would love that on the team. However, JT’s resume since Straits is what is being evaluated. There’s a major in there.

That’s why Glover isn’t considered, he’s not even the 40th best American golfer over the past 12 months.

Is it professional golf if they aren’t paid though?

RJax55

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2023, 09:29:07 AM »
In the last three decades, the US has underperformed in Ryder Cups. US teams that are stronger on paper are losing. The last time the US won a Ryder Cup on European soil was 1993(!!!).

One of the reasons given was a lack of camaraderie among the US squad. Zach Johnson was a member of five of these teams. He has seen this up close and personal. If he thinks that team chemistry is more important than merit on a few player selections (especially at an away Ryder Cup), I'm cool with it.

Again, it's been 30 years since an away victory. Picking on merit or who's hot hasn't led to success. Might be time to try a new approach??

cheebs09

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2023, 09:35:08 AM »
I think people are viewing it as an All Star team or All Pro Teams as if it’s a recognition of a great season. At the end of the day, they are putting together a team that they think has the best chance of beating the other team.

Also, the format isn’t stroke play. So just using tournament results may not be the best way to put a team together.

If I were Keegan, I’d be ticked too. However, I don’t think it’s as simple as just picking someone because they are friends. I think there’s an argument that this is the best team to put on the course rather than the best collection of individuals.

withoutbias

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2023, 09:53:49 AM »
Why aren't teams offering the kitchen sink for James Harden?  He's a top 10 talent in the world.  Why weren't teams bending over backwards to get Kyrie?  He's a top 10 talent in the world.  This is professional sports, not pickup basketball at the Y where buddies just want to get some run.

It's almost like just taking the most talented people and sending them out there doesn't work out.  Chemistry is a thing.

jesmu84

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2023, 10:35:19 AM »
So the Ryder Cup is the same as a Saturday morning game with your buddies? I thought it was professional golf - my bad.

Let’s pick the top 6 players on merit and let them each pick a pal who they can have some laughs with.

Look, I’m not saying JT isn’t a great player. He is. But he wasn’t great this year. And guys who were better than him deserved (imo) to be on the team ahead of him. What his record in past Ryder Cups or even what he does in this one is beside the point - his body of work THIS year didn’t merit a selection for THIS Ryder Cup team.

As far as I understand, the current US Ryder cup rules enforce merit as the strict determinant for some of the team slots.

The rest of the slots are at the discretion of the captain of the team.

So it seems like your beef is actually with the folks who wrote the rules?

MuggsyB

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #120 on: September 01, 2023, 11:16:19 AM »
We all hope JT does well but I honestly think he's now got a ton of additional pressure on him.  I expect him to be playing with Speith the 1st session.  If he is a dumpster fire and they get rolled it puts the team and ZJ in a tough spot. 
 

RJax55

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #121 on: September 01, 2023, 11:28:58 AM »
We all hope JT does well but I honestly think he's now got a ton of additional pressure on him.  I expect him to be playing with Speith the 1st session.  If he is a dumpster fire and they get rolled it puts the team and ZJ in a tough spot. 
 

Ok, that could happen. So, ZJ should pick the team the same way that has been done for the last 6 away Ryder Cups? How has that worked?

MuggsyB

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #122 on: September 01, 2023, 11:38:23 AM »
Ok, that could happen. So, ZJ should pick the team the same way that has been done for the last 6 away Ryder Cups? How has that worked?

is Poulter on the Euro squad?  I think you're overlooking how JT has played all season. 

RJax55

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #123 on: September 01, 2023, 11:51:53 AM »
is Poulter on the Euro squad?  I think you're overlooking how JT has played all season.

You're viewing the Ryder Cup as regular tournament golf. It is not.

Tiger is the greatest tournament golfer I have seen and yet his Ryder Cup record is a sub-par (13-21-3).

Frankly, I have more confidence in JT playing well in the Ryder Cup than I would Lucas Glover. Need to learn from the past, especially at away Ryder Cups. The US don't need another Webb Simpson or Hunter Mahan moment.

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2023 Ryder Cup
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2023, 12:50:32 PM »
You're viewing the Ryder Cup as regular tournament golf. It is not.

Tiger is the greatest tournament golfer I have seen and yet his Ryder Cup record is a sub-par (13-21-3).

Frankly, I have more confidence in JT playing well in the Ryder Cup than I would Lucas Glover. Need to learn from the past, especially at away Ryder Cups. The US don't need another Webb Simpson or Hunter Mahan moment.

So Tiger shouldn’t have made the Ryder Cup teams? But of course that’s absurd. Small sample sizes, regression to the mean, etc.

Each Ryder Cup Team is a stand alone entity. JT played his way on to two of them and performed well. This year he played himself off of the team but was given a spot over some who played better. You think that’s a good thing. I disagree.


 

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