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Author Topic: Providence in Freefall....  (Read 12672 times)

JWags85

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2023, 12:13:40 PM »
Personally, I always thought that where he got them was basically their ceiling.

Yea, I have nothing against PC, but they have 3 second weekend appearances in 50 years.  One of those was with a top 5 college coach of all time who isn't coming back.

Fun fact, that 1987 PC FF team had Herb Sendek, Stu Jackson, and Jeff Van Gundy as assistants to Pitino.  Pretty wild.

???

That’s what young coaches do. They get experience at different places and move up the ladder.

Some dude named Shaka Smart was an assistant coach at FOUR different places within TEN years, before being hired as HC at VCU.

Shaka as an assistant:

California (PA) 2 years.
Akron 3 years.
Clemson 2 years.
Florida 1 year.


Right on cue  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Though you're not wrong.  His assistant track isn't risky.  His mild performance at GMU is though.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2023, 02:28:02 PM »
???

That’s what young coaches do. They get experience at different places and move up the ladder.

Some dude named Shaka Smart was an assistant coach at FOUR different places within TEN years, before being hired as HC at VCU.

Shaka as an assistant:

California (PA) 2 years.
Akron 3 years.
Clemson 2 years.
Florida 1 year.

I understand a lot of assistant coaches have similar experiences.  But Shaka didn't leave VCU at his first opportunity.  He stuck around to prove he was more than a flash in the pan.  He really had to earn that next job.

Kim English doesn't have a lot on his head coaching resume.  He doesn't have a natural tie to Providence or the NE.  He doesn't have a long track record at any of his assistant coaching stops.  For a team that has been in the top half of the BE lately, it's an underwhelming hire.  Who knows, maybe he'll do great, but as of today I see it as a very risky hire.

shoothoops

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2023, 02:53:15 PM »
I understand a lot of assistant coaches have similar experiences.  But Shaka didn't leave VCU at his first opportunity.  He stuck around to prove he was more than a flash in the pan.  He really had to earn that next job.

Kim English doesn't have a lot on his head coaching resume.  He doesn't have a natural tie to Providence or the NE.  He doesn't have a long track record at any of his assistant coaching stops.  For a team that has been in the top half of the BE lately, it's an underwhelming hire.  Who knows, maybe he'll do great, but as of today I see it as a very risky hire.

“Always climbing the ladder and not sticking around for long.” is what you said, and you listed several assistant stops in support of it.

What if I told you Tom Crean coached at 4 different places in 8 years prior to Michigan St. What if I told you Mime Deane coached at 4 different places in 8 years prior to Michigan St. What if I told you Kevin O’Neill coached at 5 different places in 7 years before Arizona.

Now the goalposts have moved to be head coaching stops and not young assistants:

Buzz Williams, 1 year New Orleans.
Rick Barnes 1 year George Mason.

All of this Rick Pitino Providence talk, and he coached there all of 2 years before leaving.

The list is pretty long here.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 03:00:08 PM by shoothoops »

Juan Anderson's Mixtape

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2023, 03:05:27 PM »
Fine, you win.  Your argument is stronger than mine.  We'll see how it works out.

DFW HOYA

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2023, 03:16:24 PM »
"worked up" was a poor choice of words given all the drama with Cooley. I meant that I don't remember everyone considering the Willard hire to be a homerun hire the way the Cooley hire at GU is and I think they have similar track records and moving to similar caliber of jobs, but understandable given the position GU is in and desperately needing a shot of life into that program.

The program flatlined the past two years. The rent in that building is only surpassed by MSG.





MU82

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2023, 03:40:22 PM »
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

shoothoops

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2023, 04:02:34 PM »
Fine, you win.  Your argument is stronger than mine.  We'll see how it works out.

It’s not a contest. I think the point is that it’s common to move around as you move up as a young coach. There are a variety of ways to do it and still be successful.

English may or may not be successful but taking it seems to make sense.

You can skip down to the money part or you can read the other stuff too.

As for why the interest in him. The coaches he played against, worked for, worked against, all think he’s a multi threat, total package in a variety of areas instead of just good at one thing. He’s particularly close with Barnes, Anderson, Boyle, etc…as well several others.

He has experience in the Pac 12, SEC, AAC, A10, Big 12 as a player, and now the Big East.

I’m not sure what was expected in 2 seasons at George Mason considering the last time they were competitive, Jim Larranaga was coaching them in the Colonial.

I think he knows what he is getting into at Providence. He played prep ball up the road about 50 miles and he’s friends with some coaches on the area.

George Mason hoops expenses:

$5 Million.

Providence hoops expenses:

$14 million.

The previous head coach at Providence made in the $4 million range. It shows they are willing to pay competitively. He made $925k at George Mason plus bonuses.

If he has success, he’ll get Power 5 opportunities and he may leave. If he doesn’t he won’t.

brewcity77

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2023, 04:20:49 PM »
His assistant track isn't risky.  His mild performance at GMU is though.

There isn't much resume to judge, but it seems concerning that four of his top-five rotation players for 2023 were 2022 returnees and he had a ton of high-major down-transfers, yet despite improving the W/L record, his adjusted efficiency margin and predictive ranks were significantly worse. He had roster consistency and an on-paper talent advantage, yet his team performed significantly worse.

The Three Man Weave folks also aren't very high on him, and as 2/3 of that group are Mizzou alums (like English) that seems a little concerning. Maybe he'll kill it, maybe he's that undiscovered great coach who PC wouldn't be able to lure in 5 years, but I'm hard pressed to think he's a better hire than a Pat Kelsey or Matt Langel would've been.
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Judge Smails

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2023, 06:14:59 PM »
They should’ve hired Brian Wardle

JWags85

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2023, 09:32:00 PM »
There isn't much resume to judge, but it seems concerning that four of his top-five rotation players for 2023 were 2022 returnees and he had a ton of high-major down-transfers, yet despite improving the W/L record, his adjusted efficiency margin and predictive ranks were significantly worse. He had roster consistency and an on-paper talent advantage, yet his team performed significantly worse.

The Three Man Weave folks also aren't very high on him, and as 2/3 of that group are Mizzou alums (like English) that seems a little concerning. Maybe he'll kill it, maybe he's that undiscovered great coach who PC wouldn't be able to lure in 5 years, but I'm hard pressed to think he's a better hire than a Pat Kelsey or Matt Langel would've been.

Yea I feel this is a hire based of the buzz he had as an assistant up to his time under Barnes at Tennessee as opposed to factoring his actual performance at GMU.

Unless he turned down approaches, shocked Langel didn’t land somewhere this cycle

mugrad_89

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2023, 09:36:53 PM »
They should’ve hired Brian Wardle

Nah - they know he’s holding out for the Marquette job.

the eagle

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2023, 08:11:52 AM »
Nah - they know he’s holding out for the Marquette job.

Wardle heads to Providence and then we poach him in 3-5 years. Providence loses two coaches in-conference back to back.

The English hire is ehh to me - Barnes did it from GM 30 years ago and Barnes likes English seems to be the thought. I would have liked to see Archie come up the street from RI but his year 1 results were underwhelming.  Besides wanting to pound the crud out of GTown every year, Providence could have brought that NE temper to their Xavier H2H as well.

TallTitan34

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2023, 09:41:25 AM »
Steve Napolillo:

"I thought the AD at Georgetown was a mentor to me and a friend."

"I understand the business, but I thought, at the Big East, we had something different."

"We had respect. We had integrity."

"That's been completely thrown out the door."


https://twitter.com/IanSteeleABC6/status/1639021475809116162?s=20

WhiteTrash

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2023, 09:52:58 AM »
Steve Napolillo:

"I thought the AD at Georgetown was a mentor to me and a friend."

"I understand the business, but I thought, at the Big East, we had something different."

"We had respect. We had integrity."

"That's been completely thrown out the door."


https://twitter.com/IanSteeleABC6/status/1639021475809116162?s=20
He is speaking to and for a PC audience. He did not say anything that is untrue so let him vent. Good to see passion from a fellow BE school. This (losing a coach) would be a big "nothing burger" to an AD and fan base of the Horizon League but BE basketball matters.

dgies9156

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2023, 10:23:32 AM »
Nah - they know he’s holding out for the Marquette job.

Then Wardle will be an old man because I'm confident Coach Shaka will be our's for years to come.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2023, 10:25:30 AM »
Then Wardle will be an old man because I'm confident Coach Shaka will be our's for years to come.
I'm going to disagree with you on that.


Shaka will retire in 7 years after winning 3 NCs.  ;D

Warriors4ever

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #66 on: March 24, 2023, 11:19:26 AM »
I can live with that…😁

mugrad_89

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #67 on: March 24, 2023, 11:42:11 AM »
Then Wardle will be an old man because I'm confident Coach Shaka will be our's for years to come.

#sarcasm 😊

PistolPete

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2023, 11:48:52 AM »
Steve Napolillo:

"I thought the AD at Georgetown was a mentor to me and a friend."

"I understand the business, but I thought, at the Big East, we had something different."

"We had respect. We had integrity."

"That's been completely thrown out the door."


https://twitter.com/IanSteeleABC6/status/1639021475809116162?s=20

Lightweight stuff from Napolillo, he comes across like a baby. It's just business, there is no loyalty in business.

Also, the velocity with which they moved on Kim English leads me to believe Napolillo (among others) knew for some time what was about to transpire. GU is a clear upgrade, it's not that hard to understand.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 11:53:37 AM by PistolPete »

Skatastrophy

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #69 on: March 24, 2023, 12:09:09 PM »
Steve Napolillo:

"I thought the AD at Georgetown was a mentor to me and a friend."

"I understand the business, but I thought, at the Big East, we had something different."

"We had respect. We had integrity."

"That's been completely thrown out the door."


https://twitter.com/IanSteeleABC6/status/1639021475809116162?s=20


rgoode57

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #70 on: March 24, 2023, 12:24:37 PM »
Given how quickly this all transpired at PC, I wonder what kind of search they could have done before they hired English. It all only took about three days. PC may not be the most elite job in the country, or even in the BE, but it is a really good, solid job at an established basketball school with sustained recent success. You would think a number of successful mid-major coaches would jump at that chance as well as some top assistants at power programs. But in just three days, t hey decide that English is exactly what they want.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2023, 12:28:01 PM »
Given how quickly this all transpired at PC, I wonder what kind of search they could have done before they hired English. It all only took about three days. PC may not be the most elite job in the country, or even in the BE, but it is a really good, solid job at an established basketball school with sustained recent success. You would think a number of successful mid-major coaches would jump at that chance as well as some top assistants at power programs. But in just three days, t hey decide that English is exactly what they want.
.

If Mike Tranghese was involved, his voice still resonates at Providence
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Providence in Freefall....
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2023, 12:43:59 PM »
Lightweight stuff from Napolillo, he comes across like a baby. It's just business, there is no loyalty in business.

Also, the velocity with which they moved on Kim English leads me to believe Napolillo (among others) knew for some time what was about to transpire. GU is a clear upgrade, it's not that hard to understand.
Remember that lightweight baby Bo Schembechler railing on his basketball coach for leaving. What else can you expect from second tier programs like Michigan and PC?

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Uncle Rico

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Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.