2023 NFL Draft/Offseason

[Pakuni]

Jalen Carter might be undraftable. I mean I know he'll get drafted, but under no circumstance can you show up to your pro day workout out of shape and be so gassed you can't finish drills.

That's not even adding in his arrest and alleged character issues.

Big-time JaMarcus Russell at the Combine vibes.
But yeah, the talent is there. And because of that, someone will take him, and probably earlier some expect. A team with multiple firsts - Seattle, Detroit, Philly, Houston - probably can take the risk.

[forgetful]

Jalen Carter might be undraftable. I mean I know he'll get drafted, but under no circumstance can you show up to your pro day workout out of shape and be so gassed you can't finish drills.

That's not even adding in his arrest and alleged character issues.

No idea if its the case, but I'm sure the kid is suffering from some depression/trauma right now. He's been through a lot, not that surprising that he might be a bit out of shape.

The question is how does he grow and respond to this. Could go either way, he becomes a better person and a more dedicated athlete, or he spirals into obscurity.

[Dish]

No idea if its the case, but I'm sure the kid is suffering from some depression/trauma right now. He's been through a lot, not that surprising that he might be a bit out of shape.

The question is how does he grow and respond to this. Could go either way, he becomes a better person and a more dedicated athlete, or he spirals into obscurity.

I'm sure you're right, and certainly respect if he is going through some emotional/mental issues.

My problem is he and his agency know this pro date is scheduled. If he's in no condition to participate, make up a decent reason to postpone (hamstring/stomach bug). As a potential top ten pick, all he has had to do since the title game is simply not get into trouble, that's it. He should be in Arizona or California hunkered down at a training facility from mid January through the draft.

Maybe he picked poor representation, I don't know, but his decision making has not been great, and this is before he's earned potentially generational wealth.

[Jockey]

No idea if its the case, but I'm sure the kid is suffering from some depression/trauma right now. He's been through a lot, not that surprising that he might be a bit out of shape.

The question is how does he grow and respond to this. Could go either way, he becomes a better person and a more dedicated athlete, or he spirals into obscurity.

He's not a victim. He lied about his involvement to the cops after a teammate died.

Two people died. He should be feeling guilt and anguish.

[forgetful]

He's not a victim. He lied about his involvement to the cops after a teammate died.

Two people died. He should be feeling guilt and anguish.

Never said he was a victim. Said he was likely suffering from depression/trauma, which can result from guilt and anguish due to his involvement in the death of a teammate and colleague.

I'm sure you're right, and certainly respect if he is going through some emotional/mental issues.

My problem is he and his agency know this pro date is scheduled. If he's in no condition to participate, make up a decent reason to postpone (hamstring/stomach bug). As a potential top ten pick, all he has had to do since the title game is simply not get into trouble, that's it. He should be in Arizona or California hunkered down at a training facility from mid January through the draft.

Maybe he picked poor representation, I don't know, but his decision making has not been great, and this is before he's earned potentially generational wealth.

All very reasonable.

[Pakuni]

@SethWEmerson
News: Jalen Carter has entered a deal with Athens-Clarke County solicitors, per his lawyer. Carter has pled no contest and will receive 12 months probation, pay a $1,000 fine, perform 80 hours community service and finish a driving course.
Carter will receive no jail time.

As for his mental state ... no, he's not a victim, but he is a 21-year-old young man whose actions inadvertently helped lead to the deaths of two people. Unless he's a sociopath, I imagine he carries a great deal of guilt and shame over that.
It's OK to believe he should be held accountable for his actions while also having empathy for whatever suffering he may be experiencing.

[Jockey]

@SethWEmerson
News: Jalen Carter has entered a deal with Athens-Clarke County solicitors, per his lawyer. Carter has pled no contest and will receive 12 months probation, pay a $1,000 fine, perform 80 hours community service and finish a driving course.
Carter will receive no jail time.

As for his mental state ... no, he's not a victim, but he is a 21-year-old young man whose actions inadvertently helped lead to the deaths of two people. Unless he's a sociopath, I imagine he carries a great deal of guilt and shame over that.
It's OK to believe he should be held accountable for his actions while also having empathy for whatever suffering he may be experiencing.

Yes, we can have empathy, but it pales in comparison to the sympathy we should feel for the families of the two dead victims and the others injured in the crash. We should also be thankful that more people didn't die during this drunken escapade.

[Dish]

Tonyan heading home to Chicago on a one year deal.

[GB Warrior]

Tonyan specializes in TE leak plays, so he may be a great outlet for Fields given the attention he'll draw on RPOs and run plays

[JWags85]

Tonyan heading home to Chicago on a one year deal.

Shocked Rodgers didn't force the Jets to sign him too

[Jockey]

Tonyan specializes in TE leak plays, so he may be a great outlet for Fields given the attention he'll draw on RPOs and run plays

He just isn't very good, though. Just one fluke year.

[RJax55]

He just isn't very good, though. Just one fluke year.

He's going to be a #2 TE on a one-year deal.

[tower912]

Lions have signed another high profile defensive back.
(Obligatory joke about how being a Lions DB is like being a Spinal Tap drummer)

I think this means they are definitely going D-Line/LB in the draft.  Or packaging the picks in a trade.

[Uncle Rico]

So, the Lamar Jackson situation is fascinating.

QB is 26, former mvp with seemingly no market. 

I'm not a huge Lamar guy.  I get the hesitation, yet, in a league desperate for QBs, seems odd there isn't a market

[WhiteTrash]

So, the Lamar Jackson situation is fascinating.

QB is 26, former mvp with seemingly no market. 

I'm not a huge Lamar guy.  I get the hesitation, yet, in a league desperate for QBs, seems odd there isn't a market

It is no surprise to me there isn't a market. Everyone forgets he is looking for $200 million guaranteed. He has turned down $133 million guaranteed. That kills the market. There would be no market for 2x champion Patrick Mahomes at that ask.
For comparison to Mahomes deal:
    "The deal will be worth an NFL-record $477 million and includes $63 million fully guaranteed at signing, per The MMQB's Albert Breer."

[JWags85]

It is no surprise to me there isn't a market. Everyone forgets he is looking for $200 million guaranteed. He has turned down $133 million guaranteed. That kills the market. There would be no market for 2x champion Patrick Mahomes at that ask.
For comparison to Mahomes deal:
    "The deal will be worth an NFL-record $477 million and includes $63 million fully guaranteed at signing, per The MMQB's Albert Breer."

Yeah I think it's a bit of collusion and a bit of salary expectations.

If he was looking for 2 years and $80MM guaranteed, people would be falling over themselves to make a deal work

[MU82]

So, the Lamar Jackson situation is fascinating.

QB is 26, former mvp with seemingly no market. 

I'm not a huge Lamar guy.  I get the hesitation, yet, in a league desperate for QBs, seems odd there isn't a market

There's a market. There just isn't a market for a fully guaranteed Deshaun Watson redux contract.

The Watson contract was an outlier. The first and only of its kind. The only owner in the history of the NFL to give out such a contract was Jimmy Haslam.

Is it collusion if no other owner will follow with a carbon copy of that one-of-a-kind contract? I usually take the player's side in these things, but I certainly can see why no owner wants to go there.

Also, is it an insult to Jackson if an owner is willing to give him one of the best contracts in history -- better than the contracts of QBs who have actually won something -- albeit not a Watson contract?

[Uncle Rico]

I think a lot of what you guys have said is accurate. 

Wonder what kind of deal Jalen Hurts will get

[WhiteTrash]

Yeah I think it's a bit of collusion and a bit of salary expectations.

If he was looking for 2 years and $80MM guaranteed, people would be falling over themselves to make a deal work

I honestly don't see any collusion. Why spend the time and effort to negotiate a deal with Lamar that he will never sign plus upset your current starting QB for no benefit.

I wouldn't want Shaka spending time and effort on a top 5 talent looking for a 7 figure payday (assuming we could not deliver the payday). I think Shaka's approach to transfers last year proves out that strategy. He didn't want to piss off our guys. NFL GMs are smart people too

I do agree teams would be lining up for Lamar if he would agree to a 2 year $80mil guaranty.

[JWags85]

There's a market. There just isn't a market for a fully guaranteed Deshaun Watson redux contract.

The Watson contract was an outlier. The first and only of its kind. The only owner in the history of the NFL to give out such a contract was Jimmy Haslam.

Is it collusion if no other owner will follow with a carbon copy of that one-of-a-kind contract? I usually take the player's side in these things, but I certainly can see why no owner wants to go there.

Also, is it an insult to Jackson if an owner is willing to give him one of the best contracts in history -- better than the contracts of QBs who have actually won something -- albeit not a Watson contract?

I don't know if that is ENTIRELY fair.  The previous 2 offseasons saw Rodgers and Josh Allen sign contracts that each guaranteed $150MM.  Given he's a decade+ younger than Rodgers and has an MVP unlike Allen, I don't think the additional $50MM is insane as QB salaries always increase YOY.  Especially since I don't think he'd spit at ONLY $175-$180MM guaranteed if it was placed in front of him.

That being said, outside of Watson, none of the big guarantees were going to new teams, so I totally agree that leaving the Ravens and expecting that level of guarantee would be totally unrealistic.

[MU82]

I don't know if that is ENTIRELY fair.  The previous 2 offseasons saw Rodgers and Josh Allen sign contracts that each guaranteed $150MM.  Given he's a decade+ younger than Rodgers and has an MVP unlike Allen, I don't think the additional $50MM is insane as QB salaries always increase YOY.  Especially since I don't think he'd spit at ONLY $175-$180MM guaranteed if it was placed in front of him.

That being said, outside of Watson, none of the big guarantees were going to new teams, so I totally agree that leaving the Ravens and expecting that level of guarantee would be totally unrealistic.

OK. We agree on enough to not go back and forth, and we agree totally on your last point.

[WhiteTrash]

I don't know if that is ENTIRELY fair.  The previous 2 offseasons saw Rodgers and Josh Allen sign contracts that each guaranteed $150MM.  Given he's a decade+ younger than Rodgers and has an MVP unlike Allen, I don't think the additional $50MM is insane as QB salaries always increase YOY.  Especially since I don't think he'd spit at ONLY $175-$180MM guaranteed if it was placed in front of him.

That being said, outside of Watson, none of the big guarantees were going to new teams, so I totally agree that leaving the Ravens and expecting that level of guarantee would be totally unrealistic.

Don't know about Rodgers, but Allen's was $100mil fully guaranteed. I'm not trying to invalidate your point, just what was reported.

[MUBurrow]

Jackson had an uphill climb to get the money you would expect in a vaccuum for a 26 year old former MVP for the same reasons he slid to 32 while Baker, Allen, and Rosen went in the first 10 picks.  But he's committing some real unforced errors along the way now, too.  The not having an agent thing is a legit issue.  Negotiating for yourself starts to look like baseball arbitration, where the team needs to balance standard negotiation, legitimate criticism, and the player's ego.  That's a tough combo when you're asking the Ravens to commit to you being their QB for half a decade. Plus, now that he's asking for a trade, no team is going to work out a trade before getting Lamar to agree to a deal.  So you're putting potential trade partners in the same position, and most teams are just going to decide it isn't worth it.

[JWags85]

Don't know about Rodgers, but Allen's was $100mil fully guaranteed. I'm not trying to invalidate your point, just what was reported.

Allen's is $150MM guaranteed for injury, $100MM full guaranteed.  For a 26 year old top 5 QB in the league, thats basically $150MM guaranteed for me.  I don't see him (or Jackson for this discussion) falling off enough in the next 4-5 seasons that they would be cut, saving the extra $50MM.

Cam Newton would be the closest, but his issue was injury related.  If his contract was guaranteed like Allen's is, I don't see him getting cut the way he did.

[jesmu84]

Pretty clear, if reading between the lines, the owners all agreed Watson's contract is bad news and no team should come close to that type of deal again.

Is it collusion? Depends on the perspective