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Poll

Should Markus Howard Jersey Be Retired

Yes
No

Author Topic: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement  (Read 16557 times)

Galway Eagle

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #300 on: September 24, 2023, 05:46:00 PM »
Look at our season avg off eff numbers with Markus. Then shhhh

I don't think this guy understands stats. More of an eye test guy.
Maigh Eo for Sam

MU82

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #301 on: September 24, 2023, 05:58:07 PM »
OK, I’m convinced. Not only shouldn’t Markus be honored, he should be imprisoned for impersonating a basketball player.

Beyond the silliness … you know how Markus made his teammates “better”? He was the focus of every defense we played, often resulting in wide-open shots for the Hausers, Sacar, Cain, Koby, Bailey, Theo, etc.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 10:38:04 PM by MU82 »
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avid1010

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #302 on: September 24, 2023, 06:12:02 PM »
I don't think this guy understands stats. More of an eye test guy.
Completely playing that card here...and admitting to it.  I "get" stats at an academically high level...sometimes I don't agree with what the numbers tell me.  I had some great professors at MU that pointed out how stats can tell you anything.  Again, I'm not saying I'm positive I'm right on this...just really had a problem with Markus from an eye test standpoint.  I felt he was a culture killer...probably one of the few that felt the Hauser's were right to leave.  I will die on the hill that I'd rather have TKO or TD running the point for me, and I wouldn't have been big on playing Markus off the ball given his size unless I had a big PG.  If I were a recruit I wasn't coming to MU to play with Markus.  If I were on the team with Sam's abilities...I was exiting like Sam did.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2023, 07:45:15 PM by avid1010 »

Elonsmusk

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #303 on: September 24, 2023, 08:38:46 PM »
Completely playing that card here...and admitting to it.  I "get" stats at an academically high level...sometimes I don't agree with what the numbers tell me.  I had some great professors at MU that pointed out how stats can tell you anything.  Again, I'm not saying I'm positive I'm right on this...just really had a problem with Markus from an eye test standpoint.  I felt he was a culture killer...probably one of the few that felt the Hauser's were right to leave.  I will die on the hill that I'd rather have TKO or TD running the point for me, and I wouldn't have been big on playing Markus off the ball given his size unless I had a big PG.  If I were a recruit I wasn't coming to MU to play with Markus.  If I were on the team with Sam's abilities...I was exiting like Sam did.

I get your points and don't necessarily disagree with you.  However, I think both statements can be true:  Markus deserves to have his number retired, but that due to playing for a coach who encouraged Markus to shoot more and pounded into his head that he had the ultimate green light - he didn't make those around him better.

Markus was a shoot first, second and maybe pass as the third option "point guard."  I don't blame Sam at all for leaving as he left due to Wojo being the catalyst for Markus not playing team basketball.

I don't think any high level players really would enjoy playing with a guy who takes 37% of your team's shots while on the floor.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #304 on: September 24, 2023, 09:25:29 PM »
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MUScoop

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #305 on: September 24, 2023, 11:01:40 PM »

Galway Eagle

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #306 on: September 25, 2023, 08:48:38 AM »
I get your points and don't necessarily disagree with you.  However, I think both statements can be true:  Markus deserves to have his number retired, but that due to playing for a coach who encouraged Markus to shoot more and pounded into his head that he had the ultimate green light - he didn't make those around him better.

Markus was a shoot first, second and maybe pass as the third option "point guard."  I don't blame Sam at all for leaving as he left due to Wojo being the catalyst for Markus not playing team basketball.

I don't think any high level players really would enjoy playing with a guy who takes 37% of your team's shots while on the floor.


Yeah Sam really showed how he could thrive in a team system getting .4 more FGA and raising his PPG 1.1. Good thing he finally got to shine in the spotlight.

 He sat out a year and still was essentially the same without Markus. Markus' high usage was not at the expense of either Hauser as seen by their UVA and MSU stats.

But agree that both those statements are true Markus made highlights and could literally win a game by himself. But wasn't going to make an average player look great out there.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2023, 08:50:28 AM by Galway Eagle »
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MU82

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #307 on: September 25, 2023, 09:49:18 AM »

Yeah Sam really showed how he could thrive in a team system getting .4 more FGA and raising his PPG 1.1. Good thing he finally got to shine in the spotlight.

 He sat out a year and still was essentially the same without Markus. Markus' high usage was not at the expense of either Hauser as seen by their UVA and MSU stats.

But agree that both those statements are true Markus made highlights and could literally win a game by himself. But wasn't going to make an average player look great out there.

Sam was a good to very good college player but the facts are the facts - he was hardly liberated by being on a different team from Markus, either statistically or NCAAT success-wise.

Joey wasn't even an average player for most of his time with Sparty. He was benched by his coach, booed at home by the fans, and was mostly mediocre (or worse) until he was 23 years old and 4 years removed from the evils of Markus Howard.

Being on the court with Markus got each of them numerous wide-open looks every game.
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pbiflyer

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #308 on: September 25, 2023, 11:05:10 AM »
Markus Howard opens his second campaign in Spain with a ho-hum 29 points and a standing ovation. On the road. From opposing fans. Also tabbed as the league's player of the week. 

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1706312036366327969?s=20

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #309 on: September 25, 2023, 11:10:35 AM »
Markus Howard opens his second campaign in Spain with a ho-hum 29 points and a standing ovation. On the road. From opposing fans. Also tabbed as the league's player of the week. 

https://x.com/PaintTouches/status/1706312036366327969?s=20

Don't Spanish coaches realize what a team killer this guy is?
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Viper

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #310 on: September 25, 2023, 11:14:39 AM »
Sam was a good to very good college player but the facts are the facts - he was hardly liberated by being on a different team from Markus, either statistically or NCAAT success-wise.

Joey wasn't even an average player for most of his time with Sparty. He was benched by his coach, booed at home by the fans, and was mostly mediocre (or worse) until he was 23 years old and 4 years removed from the evils of Markus Howard.

Being on the court with Markus got each of them numerous wide-open looks every game.
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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #311 on: September 25, 2023, 01:36:17 PM »

Yeah Sam really showed how he could thrive in a team system getting .4 more FGA and raising his PPG 1.1. Good thing he finally got to shine in the spotlight.

 He sat out a year and still was essentially the same without Markus. Markus' high usage was not at the expense of either Hauser as seen by their UVA and MSU stats.

But agree that both those statements are true Markus made highlights and could literally win a game by himself. But wasn't going to make an average player look great out there.

It's not just the Hausers. Did any of Markus' former teammates suddenly thrive when they transferred to another school? Or when they started playing professionally? Or during the 20-21 season at Marquette? The only one I think has an argument is Cain but I don't think Markus was holding him back.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #312 on: September 25, 2023, 01:55:31 PM »
It's not just the Hausers. Did any of Markus' former teammates suddenly thrive when they transferred to another school? Or when they started playing professionally? Or during the 20-21 season at Marquette? The only one I think has an argument is Cain but I don't think Markus was holding him back.

Greg at Pitt I guess? Duane at TAMU, but that was hardly Markus holding him back given the age difference.

Of Cheatham, Traci, Symir, Dexter, Koby & Theo, could include Bailey and Frolling in their "pro" careers. I don't think there's one really standout outside of Cain that you could say "they really proved their potential was  wasted by Markus hogging the ball" and as you mentioned Markus was hardly the issue in preventing Cain from getting there.
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The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #313 on: September 25, 2023, 02:03:57 PM »
Furthermore, it didn't seem like Sam was all that unhappy until Joey showed up. I'm not "blaming" Joey, but I think it was clear that Sam was the reason he came to Marquette, and my guess is that when Joey wasn't happy, neither was Sam.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #314 on: September 25, 2023, 02:14:07 PM »
I can’t wait until the season starts and we have threads about the current team hijacked by Howard/Hauser/Wojo talk.  Can’t.  Freaking.  Wait.
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withoutbias

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #315 on: September 25, 2023, 02:16:45 PM »
Sam could've had his jersey up in the rafters right next to Markus's.  Instead he became a nobody at both Marquette and UVA.  Congrats!

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #316 on: September 25, 2023, 03:10:34 PM »
Sitting next to a Wisconsin alum on a plane this morning.  68 yo guy.  Half his family went to MU.  MU/Wisconsin basketball rilvalry brought up.  All niceties about how fun it is to play each other every year, blah, blah, blah, vanilla stuff.  No players mentioned.  Then without prompting, “Bo Ryan didn’t want anything to do with the Hausers and their father.”  Out of nowhere.

Maybe the family meddled more than they should have and maybe they thought they knew more than they did.  Maybe Markus was their scape goat. 

lawdog77

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #317 on: September 25, 2023, 03:12:49 PM »
Furthermore, it didn't seem like Sam was all that unhappy until Joey showed up.
Exactly. Markus spen some Holiday time at the Hauser's, and got to sleep in the top bunk. Kicked Joey to the garage who had to sleep on a dog mattress.

withoutbias

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #318 on: September 25, 2023, 03:13:37 PM »
Sitting next to a Wisconsin alum on a plane this morning.  68 yo guy.  Half his family went to MU.  MU/Wisconsin basketball rilvalry brought up.  All niceties about how fun it is to play each other every year, blah, blah, blah, vanilla stuff.  No players mentioned.  Then without prompting, “Bo Ryan didn’t want anything to do with the Hausers and their father.”  Out of nowhere.

Maybe the family meddled more than they should have and maybe they thought they knew more than they did.  Maybe Markus was their scape goat.

He didn't want a parent waiting outside the locker room waiting to confront him immediately after a game about shot distribution?  Huh, wonder why a head coach would not want that.

tower912

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #319 on: September 25, 2023, 03:28:28 PM »
He didn't want a parent waiting outside the locker room waiting to confront him immediately after a game about shot distribution?  Huh, wonder why a head coach would not want that.
Source?
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It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

withoutbias

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #320 on: September 25, 2023, 03:33:17 PM »
Source?

Someone who I trust much more than anyone who's told me about "the letter."

MU82

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #321 on: September 25, 2023, 03:40:31 PM »
Maybe Markus was their scape goat.

Not maybe, and not just the Hausers.

I am amazed by the number of Scoopers taking shots at a kid who worked his arse off for four years, committed fully to everything Marquette, was a two-time All-American, was an outstanding student, and represented the university with class.

It's understandable that some didn't like the way Markus was coached, but to go after him while lauding the likes of Joey Hauser ... really?

I can’t wait until the season starts and we have threads about the current team hijacked by Howard/Hauser/Wojo talk.  Can’t.  Freaking.  Wait.

C'mon, man ... that never happens.
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tower912

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #322 on: September 25, 2023, 03:42:37 PM »
I get it.   Living in Spartan country I heard many Joey rumors.   I have heard your story from someone I trust not affiliated with this board.  The same with letter stories, but the two people who told me told very different versions.   Like a game of telephone.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

swoopem

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #323 on: September 25, 2023, 07:53:48 PM »
He didn't want a parent waiting outside the locker room waiting to confront him immediately after a game about shot distribution?  Huh, wonder why a head coach would not want that.

Tim Maymon?
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tower912

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Re: Poll: Markus Howard Jersey Retirement
« Reply #324 on: September 25, 2023, 08:02:46 PM »
Careful.  Making that comparison can be triggering.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.