Shots fired on Michigan State Campus

[Pakuni]

Should a single mom or young woman  living in a violent neighborhood or in the middle of nowhere have the right to protect herself?  And as far as the potential government going tyrannical are you saying that's no longer conceivable?  Was it conceivable in Europe less than 100 yrs ago?

If the government goes tyrannical, JimBob and his AR-15 ain't going to stop it. They have drones and tanks and missiles and bombers and armored vehicles and rocket launchers.
And, if we're being honest, many of the people clutching their guns in this country today are pro-totalitarianism.

[Galway Eagle]

And, if we're being honest, many of the people clutching their guns in this country today are pro-totalitarianism.

Well as long as its no regulations totalitarianism (except women's bodies, marriage, history classes, science classes, gender, or who can protest) because if there's any social programs... then its death to those commie bastards!

[cheebs09]

If the government goes tyrannical, JimBob and his AR-15 ain't going to stop it. They have drones and tanks and missiles and bombers and armored vehicles and rocket launchers.
And, if we're being honest, many of the people clutching their guns in this country today are pro-totalitarianism.

Do we need a Scoop balloon for spying?

[Uncle Rico]

That’s awful. I can’t imagine the mental toll this takes on students.

I hope the politicians taking Xmas photos with their AR-15’s and assorted other weapons don’t have her on any mailing list

[MuggsyB]

Baseball bat, taser, knife, mace, security alarms, hammer, shall I continue or is gun the only method a person can use to defend themselves?

The idea of a tyrannical government in this day and age is highly subjective one side thinks anyone who suggests any social program is tyrannical and the other thinks anyone who supports an insurrection to overthrow a freely elected official or even say kidnapping a freely elected official is tyrannical so supporting this use case of fighting against a tyrannical government is more likely to lead to civil war than what you're indicating.

No, in Europe less than 100yrs ago there was still very much the threat of tyrannical government people just didn't do anything because they were so scarred from WW1

I'm not tell a single woman in a dangerous neighborhood  that she cannot use a legal hard gun to defend herself or her children when she is threatened by violence, including guns.  This honestly sounds like a Joe Biden "shoot  then in the leg" response. 

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not tell a single woman in a dangerous neighborhood  that she cannot use a legal hard gun to defend herself or her children when she is threatened by violence, including guns.  This honestly sounds like a Joe Biden "shoot  then in the leg" response.

Not really, I'm all for swinging for the head if need be. But I'd prefer that that single mothers child doesn't find access to a gun, especially given she must be stretched thin as is so it'd be easy to lose track of a child's activities and is raising a child in a rough neighborhood which puts the child at the whim of external forces who would just love for them to grab said gun.

A lot is said on here about city violence, well that violence is predominantly coming from single family, low income, and raised in a violent environment individuals. So sure let's add an accessible gun to tempt that kid to become another statistic.

[MuggsyB]

Not really, I'm all for swinging for the head if need be. But I'd prefer that that single mothers child doesn't find access to a gun, especially given she must be stretched thin as is so it'd be easy to lose track of a child's activities and is raising a child in a rough neighborhood which puts the child at the whim of external forces who would just love for them to grab said gun.

A lot is said on here about city violence, well that violence is predominantly coming from single family, low income, and raised in a violent environment individuals. So sure let's add an accessible gun to tempt that kid to become another statistic.

Galway,

If your sister, cousin, friend, niece, whatever lived by herself in various places in NY, Chi. DC, Minneapolis, etc, and felt more comfortable protecting herself with a gun, trained and got a permit, you would tell them not to?  That she should get mace?  That statistically she'll be okay?  I find this extremely difficult to believe.

[MU82]

I'm not tell a single woman in a dangerous neighborhood  that she cannot use a legal hard gun to defend herself or her children when she is threatened by violence, including guns.  This honestly sounds like a Joe Biden "shoot  then in the leg" response.

I can't speak for Galway or others, but I'm all for a single mother in a dangerous neighborhood having a legal gun to defend herself. After she has registered it, received training on how to use it, and has bought a vault to lock it away from the kids so that one of them doesn't accidentally shoot a sibling. If it's later discovered that she didn't lock up her gun, she should have her children taken from her because she has failed in her duty to protect them.

Not being for those things honestly sounds like a (insert Republican name here) "I love my guns more than my own kids" response.

Money isn't the issue. Hell, fookin' Evers wants to spent $290 mil on enhancing Am Fam Field. Politicians, on both sides of the aisle, sell out for the vote and that's where this all starts and should end, hey?

Sounds like you agree with me on the policies I mentioned to address the mental health issues you keep citing.

Now, which politicians are selling out to those who want guns everywhere while not doing anything about mental health issues? I hope you will join me in voting against all of them. It's great to have consensus on this, Doc. Thanks!

[MuggsyB]

I can't speak for Galway or others, but I'm all for a single mother in a dangerous neighborhood having a legal gun to defend herself. After she has registered it, received training on how to use it, and has bought a vault to lock it away from the kids so that one of them doesn't accidentally shoot a sibling. If it's later discovered that she didn't lock up her gun, she should have her children taken from her because she has failed in her duty to protect them.

Not being for those things honestly sounds like a (insert Republican name here) "I love my guns more than my own kids" response.

Sounds like you agree with me on the policies I mentioned to address the mental health issues you keep citing.

Now, which politicians are selling out to those who want guns everywhere while not doing anything about mental health issues? I hope you will join me in voting against all of them. It's great to have consensus on this, Doc. Thanks!

I don't disagree with that. Again, I think it's important to include lawful female gun owners specifically in this discussion.  Do people really want to take their guns away?  What percentage of legal female gun owners commit murder or violent crime?  I'm guessing it's quite small.  Now yes, your example has happened and an irresponsible gun owner in that case should be punished. On the flipside how many times has a woman who legally owns a firearm used it to thwart violent acts?  I'm simply not going to tell law abiding female gun owners, who deal with scumbags regularly, that they do not have a right to defend themselves. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

I don't disagree with that. Again, I think it's important to include lawful female gun owners specifically in this discussion.  Do people really want to take their guns away?  What percentage of legal female gun owners commit murder or violent crime?  I'm guessing it's quite small.  Now yes, your example has happened and an irresponsible gun owner in that case should be punished. On the flipside how many times has a woman who legally owns a firearm used it to thwart violent acts?  I'm simply not going to tell law abiding female gun owners, who deal with scumbags regularly, that they do not have a right to defend themselves.

This is quite the little fantasy you have concocted

[Dickthedribbler]

I'm just damn glad Paul Pelosi didn't have a handgun around his house. Better for an 80+ year old man to get smashed over the head a couple of times with a hammer than keep a weapon under the bed

[Galway Eagle]

Galway,

If your sister, cousin, friend, niece, whatever lived by herself in various places in NY, Chi. DC, Minneapolis, etc, and felt more comfortable protecting herself with a gun, trained and got a permit, you would tell them not to?  That she should get mace?  That statistically she'll be okay?  I find this extremely difficult to believe.

You mean like my sister who lived as a single mother just across the west side border from Chicago? told her to take a self defense class she did, got her mace, and a self defense key chain. She survived just fine used the mace once. Wasn't till she moved out to gun crazy AZ that she wanted a cute pink handgun. I notice you only list US cities, why? You know I have family overseas but didn't mention Dublin or London etc. why is that? What could be different here that a person would feel the requirement to have a gun vs over there?

I'm anti gun, that's well documented on here. I wont fight the need for hunting weapons and such because I respect the culture difference but inherently I'm anti gun. The "good person with a gun"  mantra is a joke. This guy was a personal friend, teammate, licensed P.I. And responsible gun own owner... until he wasn't. https://abc7chicago.com/river-forest-police-shooting/845068/

And that's it in a nutshell, I don't trust "good" people with guns regardless of gender, because at the end of the day the fallacy is that everyone's a "good person with a gun" till they had a bad day then it's a "mental health crisis" and shouldn't have ever had access to begin with.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I don't disagree with that. Again, I think it's important to include lawful female gun owners specifically in this discussion.  Do people really want to take their guns away?  What percentage of legal female gun owners commit murder or violent crime?  I'm guessing it's quite small.  Now yes, your example has happened and an irresponsible gun owner in that case should be punished. On the flipside how many times has a woman who legally owns a firearm used it to thwart violent acts?  I'm simply not going to tell law abiding female gun owners, who deal with scumbags regularly, that they do not have a right to defend themselves. 

fine discussions but this has no bearing on school shootings but scoop on

[MU82]

On the flipside how many times has a woman who legally owns a firearm used it to thwart violent acts?  I'm simply not going to tell law abiding female gun owners, who deal with scumbags regularly, that they do not have a right to defend themselves.

Rarely do women (or men, for that matter) use firearms to thwart attacks. It's much more common that they get shot with their own gun or by someone who lives in the house who also has a gun.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/07/guns-handguns-safety-homicide-killing-study

In particular, the researchers found, people who lived with handgun owners had a much higher rate of being fatally shot by a spouse or intimate partner. The vast majority of such victims, 84%, were women, they said.

Living with a handgun owner particularly increased the risk of being shot to death in a domestic violence incident, and it did not provide any protection against being killed at home by a stranger, the researchers found.

Despite that, I have no problem with people of any gender having guns to protect themselves and their families, as long as they buy the guns legally, have no mental health issues, are trained how to use the guns, and keep the kids from getting at the guns. Not sure why any reasonable person would dispute any of those caveats.

Although I don't own guns myself, I am not opposed to the 2nd Amendment. I do happen agree with the many court rulings that government has the ability to set limits on the freedom to bear arms, some of which have already been discussed in this thread.

The whole, "protect ourselves from a tyrannical government" thing is a boondoggle. We all should be much more concerned about heavily armed domestic terrorists who let themselves be conned by demagogues.

[shoothoops]

Should a single mom or young woman  living in a violent neighborhood or in the middle of nowhere have the right to protect herself?  And as far as the potential government going tyrannical are you saying that's no longer conceivable?  Was it conceivable in Europe less than 100 yrs ago?

I would share facts, data, studies, and credible info with Women as to why it’s safer for them to not have one.

Muggsy’s Musket is not the strategy I would use against tyranny or foreign invasion.

[MU82]

I'm just damn glad Paul Pelosi didn't have a handgun around his house.

Me too. He likely would have been overpowered by the perpetrator and then shot with his own gun.

[wadesworld]

I'm just damn glad Paul Pelosi didn't have a handgun around his house. Better for an 80+ year old man to get smashed over the head a couple of times with a hammer than keep a weapon under the bed

Good call.  The guy who survived the attack because it was NOT a that was used against him.

[Uncle Rico]

These are the faces of freedom

https://www.yahoo.com/news/2-michigan-state-university-shooting-185752143.html

[MuggsyB]

Again, it sounds like most of you want a blanket gun ban, go batcrap crazy over a school shooting, but couldn't give a flying f about gun deaths by handguns in our major cities that happen every weekend.  And you have zero solutions as well. 

[Uncle Rico]

Again, it sounds like most of you want a blanket gun ban, go batcrap crazy over a school shooting, but couldn't give a flying f about gun deaths by handguns in our major cities that happen every weekend.  And you have zero solutions as well.

Yes, get rid of those guns, too.  Get rid of all guns.  Imagine all the uses for them?  All the jobs we could create melting them down and making them into something new? 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Again, it sounds like most of you want a blanket gun ban, go batcrap crazy over a school shooting, but couldn't give a flying f about gun deaths by handguns in our major cities that happen every weekend.  And you have zero solutions as well. 

What a nonsense statement.  Pay attention and read to what people are saying instead of parroting dumbass talking points and jumping to ridiculous conclusions.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Yes, get rid of those guns, too.  Get rid of all guns.  Imagine all the uses for them?  All the jobs we could create melting them down and making them into something new?

You prove Muggsy's post.

[Uncle Rico]

Again, it sounds like most of you want a blanket gun ban, go batcrap crazy over a school shooting, but couldn't give a flying f about gun deaths by handguns in our major cities that happen every weekend.  And you have zero solutions as well.

Here you go Muggsy, some more victims of freedom.  Chicago homicide victims from guns.  Statistics to most and a great political talking point for people who say there are no solutions and what about Chicago?  Now that you know the victims of what about Chicago, hope that helps

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

[Uncle Rico]

You prove Muggsy's post.

Ridiculousness demands ridiculousness

[ATL MU Warrior]

Again, it sounds like most of you want a blanket gun ban, NO

go batcrap crazy over a school shooting YES AS ANY DECENT PERSON WOULD

but couldn't give a flying f about gun deaths by handguns in our major cities that happen every weekend NO

And you have zero solutions as well. THERE HAVE BEEN NUMEROUS IDEAS FLOATED IN THE NUMEROUS THREADS THAT OCCUR AFTER EVERY MASS SHOOTING. THEY ARE RIDICULOUSLY KNOCKED DOWN BY THOSE ON THE RIGHT BECAUSE THEY WOULDN’T PREVENT EVERY SHOOTING