SH … and MU’s (lack of ) depth

[Mu8891]

SH is / will be coming in needing a win
to avoid an 0 - 3 start.  It could be another close game, and MU is 0-4 in close games.

There’s an article in JS today about
Shaka and the freshmen.  ( could someone attach the link ?)

At this point he clearly does not trust them.   V. Providence TK and OMAX fouled out.  K. Jones and OSO both played 45 mins.

Gold and S. Jones each played a few minutes and messed up, only to be benched.

Basically they have a 7 man rotation at the moment.   Against the BE, in a 2 games per week situation that will be rough

I thought they were also gassed against
Purdue, and particularly v. UW.

This is being discussed in another thread, but this is made all the worse by
Keeyan not playing at all.   I’m kinda
shocked that he can’t play 8 to 10 mins a game.  And now Wrightsil is out for the season.   

This is a real problem.  Sure hope SS and his staff can “ fix “ it

[nyg]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/marquette-looks-keep-developing-freshmen-130037752.html

Here you go.

Kolek says it all. Up 9 with seven minutes to go, twice and they lose because of the usual MU scoring droughts.

[wadesworld]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.  It was a nice dream to imagine having a 10 man rotation and no drop off when you sub any guy out for another.  But that's not the reality in high level athletics.  You have your guys who need to be playing max minutes and you have your guys who play a role.

[Uncle Rico]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.

Yup. 

[rocket surgeon]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.  It was a nice dream to imagine having a 10 man rotation and no drop off when you sub any guy out for another.  But that's not the reality in high level athletics.  You have your guys who need to be playing max minutes and you have your guys who play a role.

  in all fairness, i'd love to say we are a "national championship" team at the moment, but...we aren't.  hopefully shaka will continue to develop a team that has as good a shot as any, but nyet.  i like this team and i like the direction shaka can take us, but this team needs an 8-9 rotation in order to: 1) sustain the high pressure defense and 2) to compliment some weaknesses with our young guys. 

we don't have 5* guys so we need a solid 8 man rotation, 9 would be better

oh, and although i haven't run this past goose yet (geeko) i'm sure he will agree with some of this anyway, but i will admit, i did go a little bit above my pay grade here and post this without his authorization. 

[Mu8891]

7 is not enough… they need 8 or 9 …
Particularly in the BE and / or when games get really physical or go to
OT…

[BCHoopster]

7 is not enough… they need 8 or 9 …
Particularly in the BE and / or when games get really physical or go to
OT…

.

Agree, next year they should have at least 9, if not more

[jfp61]

Shaka challenege the depth because seton hall is the other Big east opponent where MU needs depth. And also Depth is a problem can only really trust a maximum of 7 guys as of today. and Dependent on the game it fluctuates from 4 to 7.

[Uncle Rico]

We should get 25 guys and have five man shifts

[barfolomew]

We had foul trouble in a 2OT game against a really physical team? You don't say.

Our depth is fine compared to most teams.
We've got a hole behind one player (Oso) because of size/defense and behind another (Kolek) because the offense has to change so much when he's not on the floor.

I do like that Shaka challenged some bench guys to step up, because they didn't have a great game as a unit, but I'm fine with the development so far.

When 9-10 guys are getting regular run in conference games, that usually says more about your starters than your bench.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Marquette has a 9 man rotation. We have 9 players who have played in every single game. Our 8th and 9th player combine to play the 7th most of any team in the Big East and we are the only team that hasn't had one of our top 7 players miss a game. There are also 8 teams whose 8th and 9th players don't play every game.

Seton Hall: 33.9 mpg (had 3 players miss 6 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
UConn: 30.3 mpg (had 2 players miss 5 games total)
St. John's: 26.5 mpg (had 5 players miss 7 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
DePaul: 26.1 mpg (had 3 players miss 12 games total, 8th player doesn't play every game)
Providence: 23.5 mpg (had 1 player miss a game)
Villanova: 22.5 mpg (had one player miss 7 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Marquette 21.5 mpg
Butler: 20.mpg (had a player miss 11 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Xavier: 19 mpg (had three players miss 5 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Creighton: 18.4 mpg (had one play miss 3 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Georgetown: 18.5 mpg (3 players miss 9 games total, 8th and 9th players don't play every game)

You can argue our 8th and 9th players aren't good enough but they've been playing plenty of minutes so far.

[Goose]

MU does not have short rotation, IMO. I love that we play nine guys and I want them all to play. This is the first time in a long time that I have not become frustrated with the guys on the court.

[wadesworld]

Marquette has a 9 man rotation. We have 9 players who have played in every single game. Our 8th and 9th player combine to play the 7th most of any team in the Big East and we are the only team that hasn't had one of our top 7 players miss a game. There are also 8 teams whose 8th and 9th players don't play every game.

Seton Hall: 33.9 mpg (had 3 players miss 6 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
UConn: 30.3 mpg (had 2 players miss 5 games total)
St. John's: 26.5 mpg (had 5 players miss 7 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
DePaul: 26.1 mpg (had 3 players miss 12 games total, 8th player doesn't play every game)
Providence: 23.5 mpg (had 1 player miss a game)
Villanova: 22.5 mpg (had one player miss 7 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Marquette 21.5 mpg
Butler: 20.mpg (had a player miss 11 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Xavier: 19 mpg (had three players miss 5 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Creighton: 18.4 mpg (had one play miss 3 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Georgetown: 18.5 mpg (3 players miss 9 games total, 8th and 9th players don't play every game)

You can argue our 8th and 9th players aren't good enough but they've been playing plenty of minutes so far.

Sure, I guess it comes down to semantics.  But I don't really consider a guy averaging 7.7 minutes per game (and 5.6 in games against high majors) to be a "rotational" player, or part of the rotation.  When I think "rotational" player I'm considering guys who you know are going to get certain minutes (assuming no injuries or foul trouble), not the guys who are only coming in when there is foul trouble and you're desperately trying to find something that sticks.

Sean Jones I'd say is a rotational player.  He'll come in somewhat early regardless of whether someone picks up early fouls or not, he'll play hard defense, and he'll push the pace.  There's not really a consistent time of game when Ben Gold is entering the game and he might stay in for a few minutes if he's able to defend down low and/or hit a shot offensively, but he might only get 2 minutes.

[NCMUFan]

No need to panic.
Respect the process.

[JakeBarnes]

We should get 25 guys and have five man shifts

I dunno man, then you gotta do scheduling and that get's super complicated. First you want Shaka to dominate the X's and O's, but now you want him to figure out Excel?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure, I guess it comes down to semantics.  But I don't really consider a guy averaging 7.7 minutes per game (and 5.6 in games against high majors) to be a "rotational" player, or part of the rotation.  When I think "rotational" player I'm considering guys who you know are going to get certain minutes (assuming no injuries or foul trouble), not the guys who are only coming in when there is foul trouble and you're desperately trying to find something that sticks.

Ben Gold is going to get certain minutes. 7.7 minutes per game (5.6 against high majors). He comes in (or rotates in) and plays every single game. He doesn't only come in when there's foul trouble or desperately trying to find something that sticks. If he wasn't playing every game, I'd agree with you.

[Uncle Rico]

I dunno man, then you gotta do scheduling and that get's super complicated. First you want Shaka to dominate the X's and O's, but now you want him to figure out Excel?

Listen, I just read how Marquette doesn’t have enough depth right here on Scoop.

[Newsdreams]

Listen, I just read how Marquette doesn’t have enough depth right here on Scoop.

Fact

[Uncle Rico]

Fact

Nova at its best was running a dozen kids out there a night.  In ‘18, 6 guys played 50% or more of the available minutes and 2 other guys almost 30% of available minutes.  Case closed

[GoldenEagles03]

Marquette has had 9 guys play all 13 games.  That is the definition of a 9 man rotation.  7.7 minutes is 7.7 minutes.  They all matter.

I've seen Brew and others argue for a 7ish man rotation and I imagine the current rotation of 9 with a few getting only a handful of minutes is exactly what they were hoping for.

[GoldenEagles03]

"Marquette is currently -6.5 against Seton Hall and -285 on the MONEYLINE.

SPREAD: 41% of the total bets on Marquette, with 32% of the total handle on Marquette.

MONEYLINE: 53% of the total bets on Marquette, with 83% of the total handle on Marquette.

Via @FDSportsbook."

[TedBaxter]

For all the focus on analytics now, I have yet to see someone with an article on the ages on teams with Covid eligibility in full force right now and it does reflect the depth for Marquette right now and it reflects how Shaka wants to build with 4-5 year guys. 

Kolek won't turn 22 until the week between the elite 8 and the final four.  Kam turns 21 in February.  Oso, Omax and Joplin are 20 and won't turn 21 until the off-season.  Ross turns 20 in February and Gold turns 20 after the season ends.  Sean Jones just turned 19.  Keeyan turned 20 last fall and Ellis is the second youngest scholarship player on the team after Sean.

What I'm trying to say is that Shaka said he had a 2 year culture plan and IMHO, this program is ahead of schedule with one of the youngest programs of the P-6 conferences.  I really don't know if many people realize how young this team is and part of being younger is often having a strength deficit playing older, more mature teams.  Kolek said it in the Journal-Sentinel article that this is a young team that is trying to get better.

[Daniel]

I think our depth is fine and as the subs get better it’s really going to be fine. 

[PointWarrior]

The old “they need to avoid an 0-3 start so they will want it more” refrain. 

[DoctorV]

For all the focus on analytics now, I have yet to see someone with an article on the ages on teams with Covid eligibility in full force right now and it does reflect the depth for Marquette right now and it reflects how Shaka wants to build with 4-5 year guys. 

Kolek won't turn 22 until the week between the elite 8 and the final four.  Kam turns 21 in February.  Oso, Omax and Joplin are 20 and won't turn 21 until the off-season.  Ross turns 20 in February and Gold turns 20 after the season ends.  Sean Jones just turned 19.  Keeyan turned 20 last fall and Ellis is the second youngest scholarship player on the team after Sean.

What I'm trying to say is that Shaka said he had a 2 year culture plan and IMHO, this program is ahead of schedule with one of the youngest programs of the P-6 conferences.  I really don't know if many people realize how young this team is and part of being younger is often having a strength deficit playing older, more mature teams.  Kolek said it in the Journal-Sentinel article that this is a young team that is trying to get better.

This is cool and all that we are “young,” but I actually read it and thought to myself those guys are older than I expected…

If all the above stay MU will have 5 21/22 year olds that are main rotation guys on the team next season. That’s the “getting old” part of the dynamic that I think is a big key for Coach Smart, and I think that will be a huge deal.

One of the major benefits of not recruiting top 50 one and done type kids is that they more often than not stick around longer and buy into a system. Tack on resisting the urge to over-recruit and bring in veteran transfers and you end up with a handful or more of experienced kids that have gotten better and better because their minutes/roles haven’t been diminished by those incoming transfers.

On the flip side, by next year they’ve had all the run they need and it’s time to bring the goods.