SH … and MU’s (lack of ) depth

[Mu8891]

SH is / will be coming in needing a win
to avoid an 0 - 3 start.  It could be another close game, and MU is 0-4 in close games.

There’s an article in JS today about
Shaka and the freshmen.  ( could someone attach the link ?)

At this point he clearly does not trust them.   V. Providence TK and OMAX fouled out.  K. Jones and OSO both played 45 mins.

Gold and S. Jones each played a few minutes and messed up, only to be benched.

Basically they have a 7 man rotation at the moment.   Against the BE, in a 2 games per week situation that will be rough

I thought they were also gassed against
Purdue, and particularly v. UW.

This is being discussed in another thread, but this is made all the worse by
Keeyan not playing at all.   I’m kinda
shocked that he can’t play 8 to 10 mins a game.  And now Wrightsil is out for the season.   

This is a real problem.  Sure hope SS and his staff can “ fix “ it

[nyg]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/marquette-looks-keep-developing-freshmen-130037752.html

Here you go.

Kolek says it all. Up 9 with seven minutes to go, twice and they lose because of the usual MU scoring droughts.

[wadesworld]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.  It was a nice dream to imagine having a 10 man rotation and no drop off when you sub any guy out for another.  But that's not the reality in high level athletics.  You have your guys who need to be playing max minutes and you have your guys who play a role.

[Uncle Rico]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.

Yup. 

[rocket surgeon]

A 7 man rotation is not a problem in college basketball.  I've listed the number of players in teams' rotations that have won the national championship.  I'd say 7 is about right.  The only exceptions are UNC's championship teams.  These are 18-22 year old kids who play 2 games a week max.  They can handle the workload.  It was a nice dream to imagine having a 10 man rotation and no drop off when you sub any guy out for another.  But that's not the reality in high level athletics.  You have your guys who need to be playing max minutes and you have your guys who play a role.

  in all fairness, i'd love to say we are a "national championship" team at the moment, but...we aren't.  hopefully shaka will continue to develop a team that has as good a shot as any, but nyet.  i like this team and i like the direction shaka can take us, but this team needs an 8-9 rotation in order to: 1) sustain the high pressure defense and 2) to compliment some weaknesses with our young guys. 

we don't have 5* guys so we need a solid 8 man rotation, 9 would be better

oh, and although i haven't run this past goose yet (geeko) i'm sure he will agree with some of this anyway, but i will admit, i did go a little bit above my pay grade here and post this without his authorization. 

[Mu8891]

7 is not enough… they need 8 or 9 …
Particularly in the BE and / or when games get really physical or go to
OT…

[BCHoopster]

7 is not enough… they need 8 or 9 …
Particularly in the BE and / or when games get really physical or go to
OT…

.

Agree, next year they should have at least 9, if not more

[jfp61]

Shaka challenege the depth because seton hall is the other Big east opponent where MU needs depth. And also Depth is a problem can only really trust a maximum of 7 guys as of today. and Dependent on the game it fluctuates from 4 to 7.

[Uncle Rico]

We should get 25 guys and have five man shifts

[barfolomew]

We had foul trouble in a 2OT game against a really physical team? You don't say.

Our depth is fine compared to most teams.
We've got a hole behind one player (Oso) because of size/defense and behind another (Kolek) because the offense has to change so much when he's not on the floor.

I do like that Shaka challenged some bench guys to step up, because they didn't have a great game as a unit, but I'm fine with the development so far.

When 9-10 guys are getting regular run in conference games, that usually says more about your starters than your bench.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Marquette has a 9 man rotation. We have 9 players who have played in every single game. Our 8th and 9th player combine to play the 7th most of any team in the Big East and we are the only team that hasn't had one of our top 7 players miss a game. There are also 8 teams whose 8th and 9th players don't play every game.

Seton Hall: 33.9 mpg (had 3 players miss 6 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
UConn: 30.3 mpg (had 2 players miss 5 games total)
St. John's: 26.5 mpg (had 5 players miss 7 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
DePaul: 26.1 mpg (had 3 players miss 12 games total, 8th player doesn't play every game)
Providence: 23.5 mpg (had 1 player miss a game)
Villanova: 22.5 mpg (had one player miss 7 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Marquette 21.5 mpg
Butler: 20.mpg (had a player miss 11 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Xavier: 19 mpg (had three players miss 5 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Creighton: 18.4 mpg (had one play miss 3 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Georgetown: 18.5 mpg (3 players miss 9 games total, 8th and 9th players don't play every game)

You can argue our 8th and 9th players aren't good enough but they've been playing plenty of minutes so far.

[Goose]

MU does not have short rotation, IMO. I love that we play nine guys and I want them all to play. This is the first time in a long time that I have not become frustrated with the guys on the court.

[wadesworld]

Marquette has a 9 man rotation. We have 9 players who have played in every single game. Our 8th and 9th player combine to play the 7th most of any team in the Big East and we are the only team that hasn't had one of our top 7 players miss a game. There are also 8 teams whose 8th and 9th players don't play every game.

Seton Hall: 33.9 mpg (had 3 players miss 6 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
UConn: 30.3 mpg (had 2 players miss 5 games total)
St. John's: 26.5 mpg (had 5 players miss 7 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
DePaul: 26.1 mpg (had 3 players miss 12 games total, 8th player doesn't play every game)
Providence: 23.5 mpg (had 1 player miss a game)
Villanova: 22.5 mpg (had one player miss 7 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Marquette 21.5 mpg
Butler: 20.mpg (had a player miss 11 games, 8th and 9th player don't play every game)
Xavier: 19 mpg (had three players miss 5 games total, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Creighton: 18.4 mpg (had one play miss 3 games, 9th player doesn't play every game)
Georgetown: 18.5 mpg (3 players miss 9 games total, 8th and 9th players don't play every game)

You can argue our 8th and 9th players aren't good enough but they've been playing plenty of minutes so far.

Sure, I guess it comes down to semantics.  But I don't really consider a guy averaging 7.7 minutes per game (and 5.6 in games against high majors) to be a "rotational" player, or part of the rotation.  When I think "rotational" player I'm considering guys who you know are going to get certain minutes (assuming no injuries or foul trouble), not the guys who are only coming in when there is foul trouble and you're desperately trying to find something that sticks.

Sean Jones I'd say is a rotational player.  He'll come in somewhat early regardless of whether someone picks up early fouls or not, he'll play hard defense, and he'll push the pace.  There's not really a consistent time of game when Ben Gold is entering the game and he might stay in for a few minutes if he's able to defend down low and/or hit a shot offensively, but he might only get 2 minutes.

[NCMUFan]

No need to panic.
Respect the process.

[JakeBarnes]

We should get 25 guys and have five man shifts

I dunno man, then you gotta do scheduling and that get's super complicated. First you want Shaka to dominate the X's and O's, but now you want him to figure out Excel?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sure, I guess it comes down to semantics.  But I don't really consider a guy averaging 7.7 minutes per game (and 5.6 in games against high majors) to be a "rotational" player, or part of the rotation.  When I think "rotational" player I'm considering guys who you know are going to get certain minutes (assuming no injuries or foul trouble), not the guys who are only coming in when there is foul trouble and you're desperately trying to find something that sticks.

Ben Gold is going to get certain minutes. 7.7 minutes per game (5.6 against high majors). He comes in (or rotates in) and plays every single game. He doesn't only come in when there's foul trouble or desperately trying to find something that sticks. If he wasn't playing every game, I'd agree with you.

[Uncle Rico]

I dunno man, then you gotta do scheduling and that get's super complicated. First you want Shaka to dominate the X's and O's, but now you want him to figure out Excel?

Listen, I just read how Marquette doesn’t have enough depth right here on Scoop.

[Newsdreams]

Listen, I just read how Marquette doesn’t have enough depth right here on Scoop.

Fact

[Uncle Rico]

Fact

Nova at its best was running a dozen kids out there a night.  In ‘18, 6 guys played 50% or more of the available minutes and 2 other guys almost 30% of available minutes.  Case closed

[GoldenEagles03]

Marquette has had 9 guys play all 13 games.  That is the definition of a 9 man rotation.  7.7 minutes is 7.7 minutes.  They all matter.

I've seen Brew and others argue for a 7ish man rotation and I imagine the current rotation of 9 with a few getting only a handful of minutes is exactly what they were hoping for.

[GoldenEagles03]

"Marquette is currently -6.5 against Seton Hall and -285 on the MONEYLINE.

SPREAD: 41% of the total bets on Marquette, with 32% of the total handle on Marquette.

MONEYLINE: 53% of the total bets on Marquette, with 83% of the total handle on Marquette.

Via @FDSportsbook."

[TedBaxter]

For all the focus on analytics now, I have yet to see someone with an article on the ages on teams with Covid eligibility in full force right now and it does reflect the depth for Marquette right now and it reflects how Shaka wants to build with 4-5 year guys. 

Kolek won't turn 22 until the week between the elite 8 and the final four.  Kam turns 21 in February.  Oso, Omax and Joplin are 20 and won't turn 21 until the off-season.  Ross turns 20 in February and Gold turns 20 after the season ends.  Sean Jones just turned 19.  Keeyan turned 20 last fall and Ellis is the second youngest scholarship player on the team after Sean.

What I'm trying to say is that Shaka said he had a 2 year culture plan and IMHO, this program is ahead of schedule with one of the youngest programs of the P-6 conferences.  I really don't know if many people realize how young this team is and part of being younger is often having a strength deficit playing older, more mature teams.  Kolek said it in the Journal-Sentinel article that this is a young team that is trying to get better.

[Daniel]

I think our depth is fine and as the subs get better it’s really going to be fine. 

[PointWarrior]

The old “they need to avoid an 0-3 start so they will want it more” refrain. 

[DoctorV]

For all the focus on analytics now, I have yet to see someone with an article on the ages on teams with Covid eligibility in full force right now and it does reflect the depth for Marquette right now and it reflects how Shaka wants to build with 4-5 year guys. 

Kolek won't turn 22 until the week between the elite 8 and the final four.  Kam turns 21 in February.  Oso, Omax and Joplin are 20 and won't turn 21 until the off-season.  Ross turns 20 in February and Gold turns 20 after the season ends.  Sean Jones just turned 19.  Keeyan turned 20 last fall and Ellis is the second youngest scholarship player on the team after Sean.

What I'm trying to say is that Shaka said he had a 2 year culture plan and IMHO, this program is ahead of schedule with one of the youngest programs of the P-6 conferences.  I really don't know if many people realize how young this team is and part of being younger is often having a strength deficit playing older, more mature teams.  Kolek said it in the Journal-Sentinel article that this is a young team that is trying to get better.

This is cool and all that we are “young,” but I actually read it and thought to myself those guys are older than I expected…

If all the above stay MU will have 5 21/22 year olds that are main rotation guys on the team next season. That’s the “getting old” part of the dynamic that I think is a big key for Coach Smart, and I think that will be a huge deal.

One of the major benefits of not recruiting top 50 one and done type kids is that they more often than not stick around longer and buy into a system. Tack on resisting the urge to over-recruit and bring in veteran transfers and you end up with a handful or more of experienced kids that have gotten better and better because their minutes/roles haven’t been diminished by those incoming transfers.

On the flip side, by next year they’ve had all the run they need and it’s time to bring the goods.

[We R Final Four]

Ben Gold can contribute to win a game or two. Sean Jones can do the same…maybe more.
Shaka runs these frosh with an opportunity to contribute. If its not a win…..you come out. If you hit a 3, get a steal….most importantly play D as directed…..more minutes.
That doesn’t mean they don’t or wont play…..chances are there. If not taken advantage of………your out an someone is getting the opportunity…..even if that opportunity is for those who have yet to come out. Its still December. Long season…..many opportunities ahead for all.

[4everwarriors]

Fook 'em, aina?

[MU82]

Sounds like Shaka is playing mind games.

[Stretchdeltsig]

It seems that Marquette has more depth than ever. We usually play a lot more players than other teams. The announcers talked about Marquette's depth advantage during the Notre Dame game.

[wisblue]

Depth or no depth, this is a game MU would be expected to win in a 10-10 conference season and pretty much needs to win if it wants to challenge for 12 conference wins.

This might be the kind of tight defensive game that will show if MU can execute its offense and make FTs down the stretch to win a game that isn’t a blowout.

[Jay Bee]

Depth or no depth, this is a game MU would be expected to win in a 10-10 conference season and pretty much needs to win if it wants to challenge for 12 conference wins.

This might be the kind of tight defensive game that will show if MU can execute its offense and make FTs down the stretch to win a game that isn’t a blowout.

Making our FTs is the least of our worries, aina

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Making our FTs is the least of our worries, aina

Tied for 9th in our worries

[Newsdreams]

Tied for 9th in our worries

The Wizard has spoken

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

This team isn't that young. Kolek did a 5th prep year, so he's old enough to be a senior.   Oso and O-Max are juniors.  Jones and Mitchell are sophs.

Seems like a pretty typical college age team.

[GoldenEagles03]

I'm in arena as close to the action as I've ever been and these officials are calling Marquette for some soft fouls.

At least 3 of the 9 have been just flat out wrong. Oso and OMax having 2 a piece completely altered the half.

[We R Final Four]

I'm in arena as close to the action as I've ever been and these officials are calling Marquette for some soft fouls.

At least 3 of the 9 have been just flat out wrong. Oso and OMax having 2 a piece completely altered the half.

Don’t repeat that…..some scoopers will not appreciate that.

[Newsdreams]

Depth really did give MU trouble

[PointWarrior]

Solid analysis, keep it up…

SH is / will be coming in needing a win
to avoid an 0 - 3 start.  It could be another close game, and MU is 0-4 in close games.

There’s an article in JS today about
Shaka and the freshmen.  ( could someone attach the link ?)

At this point he clearly does not trust them.   V. Providence TK and OMAX fouled out.  K. Jones and OSO both played 45 mins.

Gold and S. Jones each played a few minutes and messed up, only to be benched.

Basically they have a 7 man rotation at the moment.   Against the BE, in a 2 games per week situation that will be rough

I thought they were also gassed against
Purdue, and particularly v. UW.

This is being discussed in another thread, but this is made all the worse by
Keeyan not playing at all.   I’m kinda
shocked that he can’t play 8 to 10 mins a game.  And now Wrightsil is out for the season.   

This is a real problem.  Sure hope SS and his staff can “ fix “ it

[tower912]

Shaka seemed to make an effort to play the freshmen more tonight.

[wisblue]

Making our FTs is the least of our worries, aina

Note that I said making free throws DOWN THE STRETCH.

It isn’t a “worry” at this point, but it is still a completely unanswered question because MU hasn’t had a game yet in which they’ve had a 4 or 5 point lead with a minute to go and has been forced to make FTs to hold the lead.

[We R Final Four]

Note that I said making free throws DOWN THE STRETCH.

It isn’t a “worry” at this point, but it is still a completely unanswered question because MU hasn’t had a game yet in which they’ve had a 4 or 5 point lead with a minute to go and has been forced to make FTs to hold the lead.

Uh oh

[Newsdreams]

Note that I said making free throws DOWN THE STRETCH.

It isn’t a “worry” at this point, but it is still a completely unanswered question because MU hasn’t had a game yet in which they’ve had a 4 or 5 point lead with a minute to go and has been forced to make FTs to hold the lead.

LOL

[MU82]

Solid analysis, keep it up…

Yeah, he really nailed it!

[Jay Bee]

Note that I said making free throws DOWN THE STRETCH.

It isn’t a “worry” at this point, but it is still a completely unanswered question because MU hasn’t had a game yet in which they’ve had a 4 or 5 point lead with a minute to go and has been forced to make FTs to hold the lead.

Are turnovers DOWN THE STRETCH important? Missing shots? Rebounding?

[Elonsmusk]

Shaka seemed to make an effort to play the freshmen more tonight.

Not really.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Shaka seemed to make an effort to play the freshmen Ben Gold more tonight.

FIFY

This was the third least minutes Ross has played all season (and lowest in BE play). This was also tied for 4th least minutes Sean has played all season...though two of the lower ones happened in the last 3 games so maybe it seemed like more recently

Meanwhile this was tied for Ben's third most minutes of the season. Tied for highest against a high major (also had 12 vs Baylor).

[1318WWells]

Are turnovers DOWN THE STRETCH important? Missing shots? Rebounding?

When you’re up and teams start fouling you to extend the game it kind of takes turnovers and missed shots off the table, no? Gotta hit your free throws at that point to hold onto your lead.

Rebounding always matters, whether it’s your own missed free throws or your opponent’s misses.

[TedBaxter]

This is cool and all that we are “young,” but I actually read it and thought to myself those guys are older than I expected…

If all the above stay MU will have 5 21/22 year olds that are main rotation guys on the team next season. That’s the “getting old” part of the dynamic that I think is a big key for Coach Smart, and I think that will be a huge deal.

One of the major benefits of not recruiting top 50 one and done type kids is that they more often than not stick around longer and buy into a system. Tack on resisting the urge to over-recruit and bring in veteran transfers and you end up with a handful or more of experienced kids that have gotten better and better because their minutes/roles haven’t been diminished by those incoming transfers.

On the flip side, by next year they’ve had all the run they need and it’s time to bring the goods.

To put into context why I'm saying MU is young in the Covide age, Kolek and OMax are the leaders in games played as collegians with 68 games after last night.  Oso is just over 50 games.

Looking at Providence, they played four 23 year olds against Marquette.  Noah Locke has played in 137 college games as of this writing.  Croswell has played in 129, Bynum 105 and Clifton Moore 100.  Breed has matched Kolek and OMax with 68 career games.  Lazar Hayward has the Marquette record for most games played in a career at 138 games.

[muwarrior69]

MU does not have short rotation, IMO. I love that we play nine guys and I want them all to play. This is the first time in a long time that I have not become frustrated with the guys on the court.

We just about always lose that rebounding fight for the ball under the basket and give our opponents 2nd and 3rd chances to score. That is really frustrating to me at least.

[tower912]

Shaka showed the freshmen the box score from last season's Seton Hall game when Mitchell, Oso, OMax, and Joplin combined to give MU basically nothing.   Used it to encourage them.   

The bench gave 54 minutes and 28 points.  I like the points.  There are clearly continuity, flow, and defensive issues when too many of them are on the floor at once.  However, three freshmen and a sophomore.   Patience.

[wisblue]

Are turnovers DOWN THE STRETCH important? Missing shots? Rebounding?

Of course they are, and MU has proven to be lacking in those areas.

But you can play a near perfect game for 39 minutes against a good team and carry a small lead when the opponent starts fouling intentionally. I am raising the question of how MU will perform when faced with that situation (which hasn’t come up yet). When a team has multiple players who can both handle the ball and convert free throws at a high percentage, they have a great chance to bring those games home. MU had that with Howard, Rowsey, and Houser.

I am simply questioning what MU will do when they have to inbound the ball successfully and have the player who gets the ball convert the free throws from the intentional fouls. I know I will not be confident if it’s Mitchell or Oso on the free throw line in one of those crucial one and one situations, and I’m not sure what to expect from others, even the ones who hit a pretty good percentage normally.

[MU82]

Oso bricked 2 FTs and shortly thereafter Shaka took him out of the game with just under 4 minutes left.

I wonder if Shaka was concerned that Holloway would foul Oso every time Marquette had the ball.

[Jay Bee]

Oso bricked 2 FTs and shortly thereafter Shaka took him out of the game with just under 4 minutes left.

I wonder if Shaka was concerned that Holloway would foul Oso every time Marquette had the ball.

No. That's absurd (and not factual).

Here's what really happened:

At 4:34 the clock stops when Oso is fouled. At that point in time, both Tyler and OMax were sent to the bench (good time to rest with the under 4 coming up). Oso stays in because the second FT was missed. The next whistle, his sub comes in and he goes out.

That was at 4:04. MU was up by freaking 18.

At 2:20, Tyler, OMax and Oso all returned to the floor.

[Newsdreams]

Of course they are, and MU has proven to be lacking in those areas.

But you can play a near perfect game for 39 minutes against a good team and carry a small lead when the opponent starts fouling intentionally. I am raising the question of how MU will perform when faced with that situation (which hasn’t come up yet). When a team has multiple players who can both handle the ball and convert free throws at a high percentage, they have a great chance to bring those games home. MU had that with Howard, Rowsey, and Houser.

I am simply questioning what MU will do when they have to inbound the ball successfully and have the player who gets the ball convert the free throws from the intentional fouls. I know I will not be confident if it’s Mitchell or Oso on the free throw line in one of those crucial one and one situations, and I’m not sure what to expect from others, even the ones who hit a pretty good percentage normally.

MU will never win close games

[MU82]

No. That's absurd (and not factual).

Here's what really happened:

At 4:34 the clock stops when Oso is fouled. At that point in time, both Tyler and OMax were sent to the bench (good time to rest with the under 4 coming up). Oso stays in because the second FT was missed. The next whistle, his sub comes in and he goes out.

That was at 4:04. MU was up by freaking 18.

At 2:20, Tyler, OMax and Oso all returned to the floor.

You're right.

[hawk]

It is hard to win in the BE when you are a young team and it is hard to win in the BE if you are a finesse team.  That being said I think this team can win 10 in conference play.  I like Gold, he should get more minutes to help his development and save some minute for Oso and Omax.  What Marquette needs more than depth is a banger.  The obvious foul imbalance is in part because MU doesn't bang.  It might be worth trying Gold out in that regard, he isn't afraid and I'm thinking he'd make some ft's

[PGsHeroes32]

It is hard to win in the BE when you are a young team and it is hard to win in the BE if you are a finesse team.  That being said I think this team can win 10 in conference play.  I like Gold, he should get more minutes to help his development and save some minute for Oso and Omax.  What Marquette needs more than depth is a banger.  The obvious foul imbalance is in part because MU doesn't bang.  It might be worth trying Gold out in that regard, he isn't afraid and I'm thinking he'd make some ft's

10?!?!?!?!/

Thats .500. If we only win 10 this year it is not a good season.

[brewcity77]

I think the key to the depth is just figuring out the best lineup combinations. Our starting five of Tyler Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, O-Max Prosper, and Oso Ighodaro is maybe the best lineup in the country. According to Hoop Explorer, if you filter by lineups that have played 150 possessions, they are the third best lineup in the nation behind Arizona and Purdue's starting lineups. If you filter by lineups that have played 250+, they are #1.

The problem is figuring out how to mix in which reserves deserve the other minutes. I think the best plan for the staff is to use the 4 rotation players (Joplin, Ross, Jones, Gold) and evaluate the best rosters they can make using those players. Use a 9-man rotation until March, then once we get to the BET cut it to 7 players, with others only getting minutes as necessary. With an elite starting five, if we can figure out the best use of 2 reserves to get those guys rest, this team can really do some damage in the postseason.

[DoctorV]

I think the key to the depth is just figuring out the best lineup combinations. Our starting five of Tyler Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, O-Max Prosper, and Oso Ighodaro is maybe the best lineup in the country. According to Hoop Explorer, if you filter by lineups that have played 150 possessions, they are the third best lineup in the nation behind Arizona and Purdue's starting lineups. If you filter by lineups that have played 250+, they are #1.

The problem is figuring out how to mix in which reserves deserve the other minutes. I think the best plan for the staff is to use the 4 rotation players (Joplin, Ross, Jones, Gold) and evaluate the best rosters they can make using those players. Use a 9-man rotation until March, then once we get to the BET cut it to 7 players, with others only getting minutes as necessary. With an elite starting five, if we can figure out the best use of 2 reserves to get those guys rest, this team can really do some damage in the postseason.

Nice post

[MU82]

I think the key to the depth is just figuring out the best lineup combinations. Our starting five of Tyler Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, O-Max Prosper, and Oso Ighodaro is maybe the best lineup in the country. According to Hoop Explorer, if you filter by lineups that have played 150 possessions, they are the third best lineup in the nation behind Arizona and Purdue's starting lineups. If you filter by lineups that have played 250+, they are #1.

The problem is figuring out how to mix in which reserves deserve the other minutes. I think the best plan for the staff is to use the 4 rotation players (Joplin, Ross, Jones, Gold) and evaluate the best rosters they can make using those players. Use a 9-man rotation until March, then once we get to the BET cut it to 7 players, with others only getting minutes as necessary. With an elite starting five, if we can figure out the best use of 2 reserves to get those guys rest, this team can really do some damage in the postseason.

That's real interesting, brew. "Best" by what measure?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's real interesting, brew. "Best" by what measure?

I believe plus/minus

[brewcity77]

That's real interesting, brew. "Best" by what measure?

Hoop Explorer looks at efficiency per 100 possessions, both raw and adjusted for level of competition. Here are our starters:

Raw Offensive Efficiency: 125.2 points per 100 possessions
Raw Defensive Efficiency: 93.6 points per 100 possessions
Net Rating: +31.6 points per 100 possessions

Adjusted Offensive: 128.8
Adjusted Defensive: 91.1
Net Rating: +37.7

The problem is when you take any one of those starters out, the numbers decline significantly. If we could manage to get 40 minutes out of our starters every night, we'd be a Final Four favorite. But because guys have to rest, we have to run out Joplin, Ross, Sean, and Gold, all of whom bring something less to the table than who they are replacing in the lineup. By the time we get to March, we have to maximize how often the starters are out there and minimize the negative impact when we have to give minutes to the bench players.

Personally, I think one of the problems we have is Joplin being first off the bench. Ross should be first off the bench. In addition, when Joplin comes in, we are generally playing at a deficit unless he's playing with Chase Ross. At this point of the season, I'm using 2 possessions on both ends for the baseline (because you can only be so statistically significant with 1-15 possessions played). Every lineup with Chase is a net positive of at least +15.3 net rating, with three of his four most common lineups at +40 or better.

Further, for Joplin, he has 6 lineup combinations that reach the 25+ possession mark, and the four most efficient lineups for Joplin all also feature Ross. So Ross should come off the bench first, but he should be the safety blanket for Joplin and/or Sean Jones when we have to go with two or more bench players at the same time. When we go to the bench, all the best lineups have Chase.

It's a long season, so they have time to figure this out, but over the past few years, teams that get to the Final Four seem to be good at shortening their bench by March and maximizing minutes for their best players. We need to figure out the best combinations to allow us to do that while using the bench players we do need most effectively.

[Goose]

brew

There is no doubt that Shaka will figure the best combo lineups, depending on the situation. That is why when everyone was bitching about how they played against Chicago State, I was happy that they had 7 guys plays at least 20 minutes and 2-3 others roughly 10.

Every time we have a lull because of a certain lineup is a learning experience, for the players and the coaches. I think this bodes extremely well for the team as the season moves into Feb and March. Imo, there are nine guys that contribute and that is a nice luxury.

[brewcity77]

brew

There is no doubt that Shaka will figure the best combo lineups, depending on the situation. That is why when everyone was bitching about how they played against Chicago State, I was happy that they had 7 guys plays at least 20 minutes and 2-3 others roughly 10.

Every time we have a lull because of a certain lineup is a learning experience, for the players and the coaches. I think this bodes extremely well for the team as the season moves into Feb and March. Imo, there are nine guys that contribute and that is a nice luxury.

Yup. There has been a learning curve, but this team is getting better in front of us. Figure out those last few pieces and we'll be truly dangerous by March.

[rocket surgeon]

preparation-

   a good coach is always prepared for the unexpected.  having all of your players ready is something good coaches preach.  i remember when travis went down with the hand injury and walk-on rob hanley was thrown to the fire and performed quite admirably.  anything in travis new book about that moment in time? 

[MU82]

Hoop Explorer looks at efficiency per 100 possessions, both raw and adjusted for level of competition. Here are our starters:

Raw Offensive Efficiency: 125.2 points per 100 possessions
Raw Defensive Efficiency: 93.6 points per 100 possessions
Net Rating: +31.6 points per 100 possessions

Adjusted Offensive: 128.8
Adjusted Defensive: 91.1
Net Rating: +37.7

The problem is when you take any one of those starters out, the numbers decline significantly. If we could manage to get 40 minutes out of our starters every night, we'd be a Final Four favorite. But because guys have to rest, we have to run out Joplin, Ross, Sean, and Gold, all of whom bring something less to the table than who they are replacing in the lineup. By the time we get to March, we have to maximize how often the starters are out there and minimize the negative impact when we have to give minutes to the bench players.

Personally, I think one of the problems we have is Joplin being first off the bench. Ross should be first off the bench. In addition, when Joplin comes in, we are generally playing at a deficit unless he's playing with Chase Ross. At this point of the season, I'm using 2 possessions on both ends for the baseline (because you can only be so statistically significant with 1-15 possessions played). Every lineup with Chase is a net positive of at least +15.3 net rating, with three of his four most common lineups at +40 or better.

Further, for Joplin, he has 6 lineup combinations that reach the 25+ possession mark, and the four most efficient lineups for Joplin all also feature Ross. So Ross should come off the bench first, but he should be the safety blanket for Joplin and/or Sean Jones when we have to go with two or more bench players at the same time. When we go to the bench, all the best lineups have Chase.

It's a long season, so they have time to figure this out, but over the past few years, teams that get to the Final Four seem to be good at shortening their bench by March and maximizing minutes for their best players. We need to figure out the best combinations to allow us to do that while using the bench players we do need most effectively.

That truly is interesting stuff, brew. Thanks for providing it. I'm guessing that if you asked a cross-section of 10,000 college basketball fans from around the country to name the best starting unit, 10,000 of them wouldn't have said Marquette. (Unless you were one of those polled.)

If you have the time to provide it, I'm curious which teams' starting-5s make up the rest of the top 10.

FWIW, I agree about Chase Ross. He is a much better 2-way player than Joplin. Jop can get hot, and that definitely has value, but he's a ball-stopper on O and a poor defender. I like to think Shaka is figuring all of this out; he's a darn good coach.