Big East Poll , NET Rankings and Team Sheets

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

After the reveal was revealed.....isnt the NET irrelevant for the remainder of the year? What ever your NET is at this point got you the seed that you now have....if your a top four seed. What matters is IU, ISU, KSU, BAY  etc. who are directly in front of and directly behind us to continue to lose. Which as of late, has happened.

It still matters. Take Virginia for example. They are 2-1 since the reveal  but their NET has fallen by 5 spots (which is significant movement this late in the season). Most seem to a agree that they've fallen from 2nd 3 seed to the 4 seed line, maybe even the back half of it

[PGsHeroes32]

The other thing about the NET is a lot of people freak out about it.

But to this point its become pretty clear that its a tool of reference especially for determining quality of wins. But its far from a be all end all when seeding teams.

Hence why we are ahead of Uconn in all brackets.

[muwarrior69]

It's really not all that complicated. Beat quality teams, especially away from home. Try to outscore them as much as possible. Hope your out of conference opponents do the same. Don't have bad losses.

UConn's NET is a reflection of their OOC wins at the beginning of the year. Beating Oregon, Alabama and Iowa State on a neutral floor, plus a win in Florida and a home win v. Oklahoma State is really good work.  They are ranked ahead of Marquette because our OCC included a home and neutral floor loss.

Yes they had some bad losses that Marquette has avoided in conference, but their positive upside way outshines that downside.

I was not complaining about MU's NET, but commenting on all the complaints in the article (Rico's link). It may not be complicated but no one knows how they come up with those numbers, thus the "whining" why my team is not higher/lower.

[The Sultan]

I was not complaining about MU's NET, but commenting on all the complaints in the article (Rico's link). It may not be complicated but no one knows how they come up with those numbers, thus the "whining" why my team is not higher/lower.

Well the NCAA has chosen to not reveal the formula because they don't want schools playing to it.

But again, it's really not that hard to figure out what the NCAA is rewarding.

[We R Final Four]

It still matters. Take Virginia for example. They are 2-1 since the reveal  but their NET has fallen by 5 spots (which is significant movement this late in the season). Most seem to a agree that they've fallen from 2nd 3 seed to the 4 seed line, maybe even the back half of it

I guess its the chicken or the egg question.
In those games you referenced:
Close win @ Louis
Close win vs ND
Loss @ BC.
If most believe that they have slipped in seeding is due to how they have played OR exclusively due to their net drop.

Has IU slipped in seeding (to most) because they've lost recently....or because the effect those losses have had on their net?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guess its the chicken or the egg question.
In those games you referenced:
Close win @ Louis
Close win vs ND
Loss @ BC.
If most believe that they have slipped in seeding is due to how they have played OR exclusively due to their net drop.

Has IU slipped in seeding (to most) because they've lost recently....or because the effect those losses have had on their net?

No one ever has made an argument that NET exclusively mattered. It's one factor among several that go into a team's resume. All of those factors still matter at this point in the season.

[Uncle Rico]

No one ever has made an argument that NET exclusively mattered. It's one factor among several that go into a team's resume. All of those factors still matter at this point in the season.

Don't waste your time

[HowardsWorld]

I still for the life of me cannot figure out net rankings. Can someone with better understanding of how a team gets its net explain how Marquette and Creighton are 13 and 14.

1 spot separates the two teams despite the fact that Marquette has 4 more wins and with that obviously Creighton 4 more losses.

Marquette 22-6 Top 4 Wins ( @ Creighton, Uconn, Creighton, Xavier)
Creighton 18-10 Top 4 Wins ( Uconn, Providence, Xavier, Arkansas)

I know losses factor into the formula so Texas and Arizona being close losses help somewhat but they still lose the game.

I fail to see how these resumes are even remotely close yet they are 13 and 14 in net.

[Newsdreams]

I still for the life of me cannot figure out net rankings. Can someone with better understanding of how a team gets its net explain how Marquette and Creighton are 13 and 14.

1 spot separates the two teams despite the fact that Marquette has 4 more wins and with that obviously Creighton 4 more losses.

Marquette 22-6 Top 4 Wins ( @ Creighton, Uconn, Creighton, Xavier)
Creighton 18-10 Top 4 Wins ( Uconn, Providence, Xavier, Arkansas)

I know losses factor into the formula so Texas and Arizona being close losses help somewhat but they still lose the game.

I fail to see how these resumes are even remotely close yet they are 13 and 14 in net.

NET is not a ranking takes "all body" of work into account. My best guess is look a the difference of SOS specially noncon SOS, stop just looking at net win/loss, depends on how those you beat and lost to do.

[Nukem2]

NET is not a ranking takes "all body" of work into account. My best guess is look a the difference of SOS specially noncon SOS, stop just looking at net win/loss, depends on how those you beat and lost to do.

A lot of it has to also do with the offensive and defensive efficiency algorithms. Hard to gauge how they affect things.

[goldeneagle91114]

I still for the life of me cannot figure out net rankings. Can someone with better understanding of how a team gets its net explain how Marquette and Creighton are 13 and 14.

1 spot separates the two teams despite the fact that Marquette has 4 more wins and with that obviously Creighton 4 more losses.

Marquette 22-6 Top 4 Wins ( @ Creighton, Uconn, Creighton, Xavier)
Creighton 18-10 Top 4 Wins ( Uconn, Providence, Xavier, Arkansas)

I know losses factor into the formula so Texas and Arizona being close losses help somewhat but they still lose the game.

I fail to see how these resumes are even remotely close yet they are 13 and 14 in net.

The following is a response often posted on Twitter, when this question arises:

" the NET is most heavily reliant on efficiency metrics that measure how efficient a team is at scoring on their offensive of possessions and preventing scores on the defensive positions, adjusted for their strength of schedule. These efficiency measures are then used to predict How a team will perform in any given game, based on their season efficiency. In this example Tennessee is, according to KenPom, the most efficient team defensively by a considerable margin and the 72nd most efficient team offensively, (which is merely OK) which tallies up to be in the 6th most efficient team in division one.

With this focus on efficiency/predictive metrics in mind, the NET's main purpose is not to rank teams based on how they've performed, but to rank teams based on how they're expected to perform in order to build the quadrant system. In this regard it is a very good tool for building a base line on determining which teams you should beat which teams you shouldn't.

The main misconception around the NET is that it is supposed to be this God-like ranking of all 363 Division I college basketball teams and that is just not true. This selection committee knows it because they have said this many times in the past when discussing tournament resumes, and the net is merely a starting point For seating discussions. "

[Newsdreams]

A lot of it has to also do with the offensive and defensive efficiency algorithms. Hard to gauge how they affect things.

Yes, correct. Just that he keeps looking at win/loss record.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I still for the life of me cannot figure out net rankings. Can someone with better understanding of how a team gets its net explain how Marquette and Creighton are 13 and 14.

1 spot separates the two teams despite the fact that Marquette has 4 more wins and with that obviously Creighton 4 more losses.

Marquette 22-6 Top 4 Wins ( @ Creighton, Uconn, Creighton, Xavier)
Creighton 18-10 Top 4 Wins ( Uconn, Providence, Xavier, Arkansas)

I know losses factor into the formula so Texas and Arizona being close losses help somewhat but they still lose the game.

I fail to see how these resumes are even remotely close yet they are 13 and 14 in net.

The short answer is that because they are close to equally efficient as we are. The main "symptoms" you are looking for in cases like this are usually close losses to great teams and huge wins over bad teams.

In Creighton's case they get credit for:
Only losing by 5 @#9 Texas
Only losing by 2 against #11 Arizona on a neutral court
Only losing by 3 @#33 Xavier
Beating #48 Texas Tech by 11 on a neutral court
Beating #69 Seton Hall by 13 on the road
Beating #33 Xavier by 17
Beating #69 Seton Hall by 22
Beating #120 Butler by 21 on the road
Beating #97 St. John's by 28
Beating #120 Butler by 22
Beating #136 UC Riverside by 29
Beating #175 DePaul by 15
Beating #289 North Dakota by 35
Beating #335 Holy Cross by 29

Meanwhile we get dragged down by things like
Losing by 15 @#8 UConn
Losing by 3 to #42 Mississippi State on a neutral court
Losing by 3 to #70 Wisconsin at home
Only beating #120 Butler by 8 at home
Only beating #184 Radford by 10 at home
Only beating #277 Chicago State by 14 at home

Now obviously we have plenty of things that boost us up and they have things that drag them down otherwise we wouldn't be ranked ahead of them. Just illustrating the positives and negatives that go into NET. Overall W/L no matta to NET.

[Herman Cain]

Big East NET ranking as as of games of February 24, 2023
New  Old
8   8   UConn   
13   13   Marquette   
14   14   Creighton   
25   33   Xavier   
40   40   Providence   
78   69   Seton Hall   
83   82   Villanova   
97   97   St. John's
120   120   Butler   
172   172   DePaul   
220   220   Georgetown   
February 25 Team Sheets. MU is 13
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net-teamsheets-plus

[lawdog77]

thats a big jump for X for just 1 game

[The Thing]

And a big drop by SH.

[Newsdreams]

thats a big jump for X for just 1 game

Trashed a Q2 team away by 22 pts. They were like only 1.5-2 pt favorites I believe. Anyway they way over performed.

[PGsHeroes32]

As predicted. We swapped Q1 and Q2 wins last night.

[brewcity77]

After the reveal was revealed.....isnt the NET irrelevant for the remainder of the year? What ever your NET is at this point got you the seed that you now have....if your a top four seed. What matters is IU, ISU, KSU, BAY  etc. who are directly in front of and directly behind us to continue to lose. Which as of late, has happened.

A team's own NET ranking doesn't really matter. NET is just a sorting tool that determines which quadrant your opponent goes in. The NET pushback and pot stirring comes from people like Flood that think they understand it but don't and want to use it to generate controversy among their followers.

[wisblue]

thats a big jump for X for just 1 game

X had a big drop earlier in the week after losing to Villanova.

My takeaway from that is that the teams in that range are pretty tightly bunched.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

X had a big drop earlier in the week after losing to Villanova.

My takeaway from that is that the teams in that range are pretty tightly bunched.

Think the same... though blowing out a top 80 team on the road tends to move the needle

[PGsHeroes32]

The only slightly odd thing with it is

When X lost to Nova...X had a big drop but Nova only went up 1.

But now when X pummels SHU...Both teams have big drop/rise.

So guess there must be much more seperation in the 80s than arund the top 30 and top 70s

[Herman Cain]

Big East NET rankings as of games of February 25, 2023
New  Old
8   8   UConn   
13   13   Marquette   
16   14   Creighton   
24   25   Xavier   
39   40   Providence   
78   83   Villanova   
79   78   Seton Hall   
97   97   St. John's
122   120   Butler   
166   172   DePaul   
222   220   Georgetown   
February 26 Team Sheets . MU is 13
https://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/2023/net-teamsheets-plus

[MUDPT]

A team's own NET ranking doesn't really matter. NET is just a sorting tool that determines which quadrant your opponent goes in. The NET pushback and pot stirring comes from people like Flood that think they understand it but don't and want to use it to generate controversy among their followers.

A+ job on taking it to Flood in his Twitter rant. He has no clue.

[DoctorV]

Looking at the team sheet today it seems to me that Marquette fans should become pretty big Villanova and Seton Hall fans over the next few weeks.

Sitting at 78 and 79 respectively, if either or both move up to 75 or better by selection/seeding time Marquettes Q2 road win turns into Q1 and their Q3 home win turns into a Q2.
Every little bit helps.

Problem is they play each other @SH on Tuesday, so best case scenario is that only one of the 2 gets into the top 75