2024 College Football Thread

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If anything has spoiled college football, it's the mindset that the national championship is the only thing that matters, rendering any other accomplishment by the other 132 teams meaningless. There was a time not that long ago when getting invited to the Orange Bowl or the Cotton Bowl meant you had a hugely successful season. Now, unless it's one of the playoff games, it's a meaningless exhibition game and a joke?
It's the "nothing-short of-a-title" mentality that has stolen the joy of the game, not the fact that only  a handful of teams have a realistic shot at a title. That has always been the case.

Thank you for emulating my point. These geniuses actually made people believe that bowl games were more than meaningless exhibitions! For decades! And they've made billions in that time frame! It's one of the most successful marketing scams in history.

[Uncle Rico]

Desantis asking for $1 mil of taxpayer money to sue over FSU being left out of playoffs.

Suck-up POS.

Pudding Fingers going to be working with Scott Walker at the ham sandwich factory soon enough

[Hards Alumni]

Thank you for emulating my point. These geniuses actually made people believe that bowl games were more than meaningless exhibitions! For decades! And they've made billions in that time frame! It's one of the most successful marketing scams in history.

+1

Part of why I could never care about CFB much.  Oh you won the Rose Bowl?  What does that mean?  You're the best team from the Pac12 or Big 10 that didn't get to play in the National Championship game?  Oh cool!

[Pakuni]

Thank you for emulating my point. These geniuses actually made people believe that bowl games were more than meaningless exhibitions! For decades! And they've made billions in that time frame! It's one of the most successful marketing scams in history.

OK, but the logical extension of this argument is that no games matter. A conference title's value exists only inasmuch people think it's valuable.  A win over your rival is important only because people have been convinced it's important. 
So, it's all a marketing scam. And so what?

[MU82]

These geniuses actually made people believe that bowl games were more than meaningless exhibitions! For decades! And they've made billions in that time frame! It's one of the most successful marketing scams in history.

This.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK, but the logical extension of this argument is that no games matter. A conference title's value exists only inasmuch people think it's valuable.  A win over your rival is important only because people have been convinced it's important. 
So, it's all a marketing scam. And so what?

I don't think that's a logical extension at all. Every major sport you play for a chance at the national championship.... except college football. 

[Pakuni]

I don't think that's a logical extension at all. Every major sport you play for a chance at the national championship.... except college football.

Why s a national championship in amateur football important?

[Hards Alumni]

Why s a national championship in amateur football important?

You trying to take Sultan's crown here?

[lawdog77]

Why s a national championship in amateur football important?

I am on Team Pakuni's side on this. If Bowl games are stupid because they didn't win a NC, college basketball fans shouldn't celebrate conference championships, sweet 16s or Elite 8s.

Bowl games are for teams/fans to celebrate good seasons/ It is what it is. There are probably 20 teams max that have a shot at the NC in football. Everyone else is playing for Bowl Bids.

[Pakuni]

You trying to take Sultan's crown here?

I wouldn't dare.
I take it you have no answer.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why s a national championship in amateur football important?

Because athletic competition has been important to humans since the dawn of civilization.

If you want to argue that caring about sports is dumb,  youre not wrong, but we've been dumb in that kind of way for 1000s of years.  We've only been bowl game dumb for a few decades

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am on Team Pakuni's side on this. If Bowl games are stupid because they didn't win a NC, college basketball fans shouldn't celebrate conference championships, sweet 16s or Elite 8s.

Bowl games are for teams/fans to celebrate good seasons/ It is what it is. There are probably 20 teams max that have a shot at the NC in football. Everyone else is playing for Bowl Bids.

I have no problem with celebrating bowl wins. They would be a nice consolation prize for teams.

What's dumb is that 90% of the teams could go undefeated in a season and not even be given the chance to compete for the championship. Clearly that's enough for a lot of fans.  I think those fans are nuts

[Lennys Tap]

Why s a national championship in amateur football important?

First of all, it’s no longer amateur (if it ever was). Secondly, winning the National Championship in college football has ALWAYS been important regardless of a playoff. Every once in a while there was even a bowl game pitting #1 vs #2 for that National Championship. I don’t remember it sucking the joy out of being the Rose or Sugar Bowl Champion for those teams or their fan bases but when there’s zero chance of ending up #1 it is a consolation prize - today and always.

[Hards Alumni]

I wouldn't dare.
I take it you have no answer.

I do.  But, the answer is obvious, isn't it? 

Because every team or fan base desires to say they were the best team on any given year. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't know. It seems to me, with the television ratings being what they are and with stadiums full with people around the country, that college football doesn't necessarily need a defined method of determining a national champion for people to love the game.  Now I am glad they are moving to a twelve team playoff because it will provide more full and exciting games than the usual bowl season, but my observation is that a lot of people like college football for the sake of college football.

Just like in most sports. Fans of most teams in almost all sports realistically know their team isn't winning a championship. But they get joy from the game anyway.

[JWags85]

Thank you for emulating my point. These geniuses actually made people believe that bowl games were more than meaningless exhibitions! For decades! And they've made billions in that time frame! It's one of the most successful marketing scams in history.

Counter point...its not just an American/CFB thing.

English soccer has the Community Shield which is the Premier League winner against the FA Cup winner (or a rematch of the FA Cup final if the EPL winner also won the FA Cup.

La Liga has the "SuperCopa" which is just a the top 2 teams in the previous years La Liga standings and the 2 finalists of the Copa del Rey (domestic cup) in a meaningless mini tourney.

Most Euro countries have something similar.  Glorified exhibitions to start the season but they get puffed up and put in the trophy case for a win and heavily marketed.

[Pakuni]

Because athletic competition has been important to humans since the dawn of civilization.

If you want to argue that caring about sports is dumb,  youre not wrong, but we've been dumb in that kind of way for 1000s of years.  We've only been bowl game dumb for a few decades

No, that's not my argument at all. I don't think it's stupid to care about sports. At least not any more than it is to care about art or movies or music or literature, etc.
I'm likely not stating my case very well, but I'll try to do it better.

IMO, the value/importance of any athletic contest for nonparticipants is a subjective determination for each individual. The inclusion in or result of a sporting event isn't a commodity or a product, or even a service, that has tangible, objective worth (again, for nonparticipants). It has no intrinsic value beyond that which a person chooses to place upon it.  A new car has an objective value, regardless of the consumer. Marquette winning a national title would have a very different value to us Scoopers than some random group of people in New Mexico.

What's this have to do with your comments? You seem to suggest that fans who care about an "exhibition" bowl game are rubes who've been duped into caring by the geniuses at the NCAA. I disagree. I think fans choose what value to put on a game - any game - and it's subjective to each individual. If a Northwestern fan is excited because that team is going to the Las Vegas Bowl after overcoming a heap of adversity, that person isn't a rube and hasn't been fooled. They've just chosen what's important to them. No different than a national title game. It's important to some people because they've chosen to make it important. It has no value to that person otherwise.

That probably isn't the most eloquent explanation, but have at it.

[MU82]

If Bowl games are stupid because they didn't win a NC, college basketball fans shouldn't celebrate conference championships, sweet 16s or Elite 8s.

I don't think that's a good comparison. Going to a bowl game is more like going to the NIT.

Getting to play in the Famous Toastery Bowl - or even the Fiesta Bowl after you failed to qualify for the playoffs - is nothing like qualifying for the NCAA basketball tournament and winning 3 NCAAT games to reach the Elite Eight.

Starting next season, getting to the NCAA football semis will be like getting to the Final Four. And for all but the 12 teams who didn't make the playoffs, bowl games will be like the NIT or CBI.

All IMHO of course.

[shoothoops]

No, I'm saying the singular focus on the national title brought about first by the BCS and then the playoff has robbed the joy of other accomplishments and successes.

I agreed with your initial post. I would just add that there are other things in addition to what you said.

It isn’t college football specific either.

In tennis it’s called counting slams.

In soccer it’s handful of top Men’s Euro leagues or bust plus national teams. Nothing else.

It’s the fruitless comparing of eras played under much different circumstances. Everyone and everything is a goat of this or that nature.

And there are additional factors too. Trying to remember that the Gasparilla Bowl was the Outback Bowl so that one can remember that’s the early day Tampa game. Those types of things don’t help.

All of this recent MLB draft talk is great for example, since I follow college baseball too.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know. It seems to me, with the television ratings being what they are and with stadiums full with people around the country, that college football doesn't necessarily need a defined method of determining a national champion for people to love the game.  Now I am glad they are moving to a twelve team playoff because it will provide more full and exciting games than the usual bowl season, but my observation is that a lot of people like college football for the sake of college football.

Just like in most sports. Fans of most teams in almost all sports realistically know their team isn't winning a championship. But they get joy from the game anyway.

I agree entirely.  No one can question the success of college football. Its just baffling to me.

[Uncle Rico]

I agree entirely.  No one can question the success of college football. Its just baffling to me.

Let’s get ready to GAMBLE

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Counter point...its not just an American/CFB thing.

English soccer has the Community Shield which is the Premier League winner against the FA Cup winner (or a rematch of the FA Cup final if the EPL winner also won the FA Cup.

La Liga has the "SuperCopa" which is just a the top 2 teams in the previous years La Liga standings and the 2 finalists of the Copa del Rey (domestic cup) in a meaningless mini tourney.

Most Euro countries have something similar.  Glorified exhibitions to start the season but they get puffed up and put in the trophy case for a win and heavily marketed.

There are lots of meaningless exhibitions that are successful and beloved by fans. But as far as I'm aware, CFB is the only major sport where 90% of the teams could go undefeated and not even get a chance to compete for their championship.

[wadesworld]

The Bears have been playing 20 exhibition games every year for nearly 4 decades now and people still pay to watch them.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

No, that's not my argument at all. I don't think it's stupid to care about sports. At least not any more than it is to care about art or movies or music or literature, etc.
I'm likely not stating my case very well, but I'll try to do it better.

IMO, the value/importance of any athletic contest for nonparticipants is a subjective determination for each individual. The inclusion in or result of a sporting event isn't a commodity or a product, or even a service, that has tangible, objective worth (again, for nonparticipants). It has no intrinsic value beyond that which a person chooses to place upon it.  A new car has an objective value, regardless of the consumer. Marquette winning a national title would have a very different value to us Scoopers than some random group of people in New Mexico.

What's this have to do with your comments? You seem to suggest that fans who care about an "exhibition" bowl game are rubes who've been duped into caring by the geniuses at the NCAA. I disagree. I think fans choose what value to put on a game - any game - and it's subjective to each individual. If a Northwestern fan is excited because that team is going to the Las Vegas Bowl after overcoming a heap of adversity, that person isn't a rube and hasn't been fooled. They've just chosen what's important to them. No different than a national title game. It's important to some people because they've chosen to make it important. It has no value to that person otherwise.

That probably isn't the most eloquent explanation, but have at it.

And that's where we disagree.  I think they are rubes for assigning enough value to a meaningless exhibition game that it doesn't bother them that in any given season it is literally impossible for most of their chosen teams to make the playoffs. And I'll be honest,
i think a good percentage of them have deluded themselves into thinking that they're team isn't one of the majority that could go undefeated and not make the playoffs.

But that's just my opinion, it's not a fact. People can assign value to whatever they like and others can think they're rubes for it.

[Pakuni]

And that's where we disagree.  I think they are rubes for assigning enough value to a meaningless exhibition game that it doesn't bother them that in any given season it is literally impossible for most of their chosen teams to make the playoffs. And I'll be honest,
i think a good percentage of them have deluded themselves into thinking that they're team isn't one of the majority that could go undefeated and not make the playoffs.

But that's just my opinion, it's not a fact. People can assign value to whatever they like and others can think they're rubes for it.

This is definitely not correct.
We're now in year 10 of the CFP. In those 10 years, 16 of 17 undefeated P5 teams - and P5 teams make up the majority - received a playoff bid. And the one that didn't was the result of rare extenuating circumstances. If FSU's QB is healthy, it would be 17 of 17.
So, contrary to "the majority that could go undefeated and not make the playoffs," history says going undefeated for a majority of teams has led to a playoff bid 94% of the time. Just don't let your QB get injured.

Also, this tangent got rolling when I suggested that for some, the playoffs-or-nothing mentality has sucked joy out of the game. Now you're telling us that if you enjoy the game without making the playoffs, you're a rube?