How far did you move from where you grew up?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I am not worried about the crime as much as I am worried the general financial condition of the state.

When I moved to Illinois, the personal income tax rate was 2%, the sales tax rate was 5.5%, my annual property taxes were 2% of my property's value, and the state was in decent financial shape.  When I  left, the personal income tax rate was 4.95%, the average sales tax was almost 9%, my property taxes were 3% of my property's value, and the state is teetering on bankruptcy.

Yes, Chicago is a fun place to live for a few years as a young adult, and there are career opportunities there (for now, at least), if someone asked me for recommendations as to where to relocate and set down roots, Illinois would not be on the list. 

I am not looking to change anyone's mind; it's just my opinion as someone who spent most of her life there.

Right, and these might be good reasons for someone not to put down roots there, but a 23 year old who is beginning their career isn't really thinking about that.  Nor do they really need to.

Sadly, nobody wants to do anything about it. Consider what has happened in the last three months: Boeing left for DC; Caterpillar left for Dallas; and, the scariest of the them all, Citadel Holdings for Miami. Most of what was once Fortune 500 corporations headquartered in Chicago are gone -- the banks mostly have been acquired, the insurance companies are headquartered elsewhere and the manufacturers largely a shell of their former selves. The largest company left headquartered in the area is McDonald's or Walgreens!

If this isn't a canary in the coal mine, I don't know what is!

I have know idea what the end game will be, but like you and Glow, I aint going to be around to suffer the consequences.

Fortune 500 companies haven't been the main drivers for professional job growth in years.  There are plenty of very nice companies to work for in the Chicago area.

[wadesworld]

For those who .. lived somewhere in adulthood for XX years, then moved away:  How'd you deal with the loss of acquaintances/friends?

While so many folks move somewhere else when the kids are grown or after retirement .. I've thought about it too, but I find it hard to comprehend how one flushes 95% of the relationships you've built over the years and start over.

I think it'd be cool to live in the mountains and/or somewhere warm in the winter, but the thought of zeroing out the people I know seems like such a negative, I'd feel very alone in my new beautiful atmosphere.

So for those who did it .. how was that aspect?

This is what I am trying to work through right now.  I grew up in Wauwatosa and the only time I lived outside of Wauwatosa until a month ago was my 4 years at Marquette.  I just moved to Columbia, MO because my girlfriend got a job down here.  I'm working remotely for the company I worked for prior to the move, but that will be ending in September.  I think finding something local in an office will help to meet new people.  I have about 3 mutual connections who I've texted with but have yet to actually meet, one of which actually just moved from Wauwatosa himself a couple weeks ago.  I'd also like to find a group of guys to play regular pickup basketball with, because that's something I loved doing in Milwaukee, but those were all high school and college friends, of which I have 0 down here.

So far it's been fine because we took a week and a half trip up to the Canadian Rockies and have otherwise been busy trying to get settled in to the new house, but I think it'll be harder once that part slows down.

[dgies9156]

Sorry, but this is plainly false. While there's still MUCH work to be done, Illinois is in better financial shape today than at any time since the mid 90s. It's nowhere near bankruptcy (which is impossible, anyhow).
Every rating agency has upgraded the state's bond rating in the last year - the first time that's happened in two decades. The massive backlog of unpaid bills that resulted from Bruce Rauner's ruinous attempt to break the unions has been chopped down from $17 billion to $3 billion. A bunch of short-term loans needed to fund the government because Rauner refused to have been repaid. The latest budget has a $1.7 billion surplus, compared to $3.2 billion deficit when Rauner left office. The pension shortfall, while still massive, has been trimmed 10 percent and is no longer the worst in the country.
 
Illinois is still far from what anyone would call good financial shape, but it's far better than just a few years ago and is by no means "teetering on bankruptcy" ... which, again, is an impossibility, since states cannot legally declare bankruptcy.

Regardless, not many 23-year-olds care about property taxes or pension obligations or a state's bond rating when contemplating where to live.

If you compare a pile of crap to a pile of toxic waste, I agree with you.

But to Sister Chick's point, the state's obligations likely exceed its assets by a wide margin, if the pension deficit is included and estimates are completed using GAAS. And, if Illinois were required to cash flow its pension obligation shortfall, which it eventually will be, there's no way it could. When Governor Quinn tried to address this issue, which is the big one overhanging the state, the public employees shot him out of the saddle so bad his backside flew from Chicago to Carbondale before it hit ground.

Sure, Illinois is not as bad as New Jersey. But benchmark Illinois against Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa or Missouri and you have a whole different measure. And the GOP is just as bad a big spender in the state as the Democrats are!

[Pakuni]

Sadly, nobody wants to do anything about it. Consider what has happened in the last three months: Boeing left for DC; Caterpillar left for Dallas; and, the scariest of the them all, Citadel Holdings for Miami. Most of what was once Fortune 500 corporations headquartered in Chicago are gone -- the banks mostly have been acquired, the insurance companies are headquartered elsewhere and the manufacturers largely a shell of their former selves. The largest company left headquartered in the area is McDonald's or Walgreens!

If this isn't a canary in the coal mine, I don't know what is!

I have know idea what the end game will be, but like you and Glow, I aint going to be around to suffer the consequences.

1. Citadel is not a Fortune 500 company. And many of its employees will remain in Chicago. Its move has far less to do with the business climate than Ken Griffin's personal feud with JB Priztker and his inability to buy the governor's office.
2. Caterpillar is moving only about 230 employees out of Illinois. About 17,000 will remain.
3. Why no mention of the Fortune 500 and other companies that are moving, or have moved, in to Chicago in recent years, i.e. Kellogg, Google, Dyson, etc.?

In fact, please share your thoughts on this:
The Chicago area set a record for corporate relocations and expansions in 2021, according to Site Selection magazine, making it the top metropolitan area in the United States for investment for the ninth consecutive year.
There were 441 qualifying deals in greater Chicago last year with a combined $2.8 billion in investments, 18,368 new jobs and 59 million square feet of expansion space, according to a statement Tuesday from the Georgia-based magazine and Chicago officials.
https://www.tmg-rea.com/chicago-remained-no-1-for-corporate-relocations-expansions-in-2021-magazine-says

[dgies9156]

In fact, please share your thoughts on this:
The Chicago area set a record for corporate relocations and expansions in 2021, according to Site Selection magazine, making it the top metropolitan area in the United States for investment for the ninth consecutive year.
There were 441 qualifying deals in greater Chicago last year with a combined $2.8 billion in investments, 18,368 new jobs and 59 million square feet of expansion space, according to a statement Tuesday from the Georgia-based magazine and Chicago officials.
https://www.tmg-rea.com/chicago-remained-no-1-for-corporate-relocations-expansions-in-2021-magazine-says

OK, I will.

I love Chicago and NE Illinois. The fact that I've lived here for 44 years should be evidence enough of my appreciation of the area. That said, if people are willing to roll the dice and take a risk on Illinois' political climate, then God love them. I hope it works out for them and their employees.

The fact remains that Illinois as a whole lost population in the last 10 years. Yes, people are coming to Chicago but they're barely replacing those who left. Compare the rate of investment in Chicago to that of Dallas-Ft. Worth, Miami or even Nashville. While I have serious concerns about the number of see-throughs being built in Nashville's Gulch, I nonetheless think the growth of Middle Tennessee (while perhaps nuts) is being driven by a business climate that is far more attractive than Chicago or Illinois.

Good grief, look what's happening in Florida! Compare that to Illinois!

The investment in Chicago is fluid. You can cancel a lease and move employees quickly. Capital investment is much harder to move and you don't see capital investment -- factories and assembly. Do you really think that Cat will make capital investment in Peoria and Morton? I truly hope so but I have grave doubts.

And, yes, I know Citadel is not a Fortune 500 Corporation -- but their level of charitable and civic participation is unparalleled and to lose that is truly sad.

To Brother Hilltopper:

We are moving to Florida. But you never leave behind true friends. I have friends in Nashville who I've known since 1962 to 1970. We don't see each other every day but we talk regularly and we're a part of each others lives. My true friends in Chicago will stay close and I suspect, given our new location, we may see as much of them in the future as we do now!!! LOL

Cell phones, texting, email and social media have made true friendships forever friendships.

[Spotcheck Billy]

For those who .. lived somewhere in adulthood for XX years, then moved away:  How'd you deal with the loss of acquaintances/friends?

While so many folks move somewhere else when the kids are grown or after retirement .. I've thought about it too, but I find it hard to comprehend how one flushes 95% of the relationships you've built over the years and start over.

I think it'd be cool to live in the mountains and/or somewhere warm in the winter, but the thought of zeroing out the people I know seems like such a negative, I'd feel very alone in my new beautiful atmosphere.

So for those who did it .. how was that aspect?

I really didn't miss old friends that much. I would end up visiting a few times a year etc.

What I recall more was the cultural differences between WI, NC and MN.

[Pakuni]

The fact remains that Illinois as a whole lost population in the last 10 years.

This is not a fact.
Illinois suffered significant undercounting during the 2020 census, leading to the mistaken conclusion that the state lost residents over the previous ten years — when in reality it added more than a quarter of a million people and swelled to its largest population ever.
That’s the stunning revelation from a report the U.S. Census Bureau itself released on Thursday, admitting that its ten-year head counts were off in more than a dozen states.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-undercounted-in-2020-census-actually-grew-to-13-million-the-states-largest-population-ever/2837753/

[lawdog77]

Not even sure how accurate this is, but US News listed state's fiscal stability.Illinois is last

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stability#:~:text=Alaska%20is%20the%20top%20state,top%2010%20Best%20States%20overall.

[Pakuni]

Not even sure how accurate this is, but US News listed state's fiscal stability.Illinois is last

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/fiscal-stability#:~:text=Alaska%20is%20the%20top%20state,top%2010%20Best%20States%20overall.

I'd guess that's pretty accurate, given that the data used is pretty old (most from 2018).

[shoothoops]

For those who .. lived somewhere in adulthood for XX years, then moved away:  How'd you deal with the loss of acquaintances/friends?

While so many folks move somewhere else when the kids are grown or after retirement .. I've thought about it too, but I find it hard to comprehend how one flushes 95% of the relationships you've built over the years and start over.

I think it'd be cool to live in the mountains and/or somewhere warm in the winter, but the thought of zeroing out the people I know seems like such a negative, I'd feel very alone in my new beautiful atmosphere.

So for those who did it .. how was that aspect?

You have to be good at keeping and maintaining friendships and relationships. You also have to see the opportunity to meet new people and make new friendships and relationships, while maintaining some of the past ones.

You will lose some friendships, and/or some dynamics will change. But others will remain in tact. Technology, travel improvements help.

The biggest challenges for me have been taking care of some people with perhaps higher needs, whether that be older relatives or a disabled one etc….with whom I am close….when those people become a little less independent. (Moving to them or having them move to you)

My friends live all over the country and internationally. That’s in part because I have lived several places, and worked/visited many others. Some of those people have lived and visited several places, and others haven’t. Maintaining friendships has been more about the connection you have with that person than geography in my experience. It takes some effort.

[warriorchick]

Well this just showed up in my Facebook feed:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/chicago-among-top-10-us-cities-homebuyers-are-looking-to-leave-report/ar-AAZXFqL

[rocket surgeon]

Brother Rocket:

Yes, Solon Springs.

My parents were both from Superior and my Dad spent his summers growing up on Upper St. Croix Lake. My parents place was on Island Lake, just east of Upper St. Croix. It was built in 1968 and then added on in 1980 and 1990. We spent our summers there as children from 1968 until I was graduated from Marquette. My parents retired there and lived full-time in Solon from 1990 until my Mom died in 2005 and my Dad in 2018. Even though my parents migrated 1,000 miles away to Nashville for a good part of their adult lives, this is living proof of the theory in this thread that inevitably, many go home. Solon Springs is 30 miles from where they both grew up.

If you've ever been to the Lucius Woods Performing Arts Center, my parents founded it. My Mom also was Chairwoman of the St. Croix School Board and was appointed by Governor Thompson to the Wisconsin Arts Council. My Dad was Chairman of the Douglas County Development Authority and played a big role in helping save the oil refinery in Superior. Dad also did the engineering work for Hidden Greens and was instrumental in getting that course developed. The course is about a mile north of my parents' old place.

Chili is married to the daughter of one of my parents' high school classmates and actually knew my parents!

that's some busy people right there dgies!  sounds like they really played an ACTIVE role in making that northern sector a better community. 

  we had been going up to barnes every year since 1967 to my uncles place on middle eau claire.  the "buck n bass bar and grill had the million $$ view.  then dad bought a place on the penninsula over looking upper eau claire lake in 1990 and turned it into our shangri la.  south of solon springs on 27, turn left at jims bait shop and you're home.  too many good memories  and great fish stories to count

[Pakuni]

Well this just showed up in my Facebook feed:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/chicago-among-top-10-us-cities-homebuyers-are-looking-to-leave-report/ar-AAZXFqL

In summary, Chicago ranked 9th on this list, had the second-lowest net outflow among the top 10 and was the only market among the 10 with a 2022 outflow smaller than 2021.
Where are these people going? The #1 destination is Cape Coral, Florida. AKA, they're retirees.
Oh, and the top destination for people leaving the Denver and Minneapolis markets? Chicago.

[Hards Alumni]

100 miles, but I've lived as far as 418 miles.

[MU82]

None of the above discuss has convinced me that Chicago is a bad place to live. My son and his family still lives there, one of my best friends just moved to Lincoln Park from Wisconsin and absolutely loves it, and I still have numerous friends who live there and vow they'd never live anyplace else.

Bad things happen there occasionally, too -- like anywhere else USA. Oklahoma is melting, St. Louis is under water, Florida is feuding with Disney, Texas is having problems with its grid, California is on fire, Arizona has no water, there have been 1000+ monkeypox cases in NYC, and there have been numerous horrific shootings in small towns this year.

[brewcity77]

None of the above discuss has convinced me that Chicago is a bad place to live. My son and his family still lives there, one of my best friends just moved to Lincoln Park from Wisconsin and absolutely loves it, and I still have numerous friends who live there and vow they'd never live anyplace else.

Bad things happen there occasionally, too -- like anywhere else USA. Oklahoma is melting, St. Louis is under water, Florida is feuding with Disney, Texas is having problems with its grid, California is on fire, Arizona has no water, there have been 1000+ monkeypox cases in NYC, and there have been numerous horrific shootings in small towns this year.

Cities like Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles will always be disproportionately targeted as "problem areas" because of sample size. When you have more than 9 million people in your metro area, that's a huge sample size for isolated events to get blown up in the news and lead to generalities that the whole city is like that isolated event.

The metro areas of those three cities are all greater than 9.4 million, which means they each have populations greater than all but 10 states (New Jersey, at 9.3 million, is the 11th most populous state). It's not much different than when Wisconsin bumpkins hear I live in Milwaukee and shudder, even though my neighborhood has a lower crime rate than the bulk of Waukesha, New Berlin, Hartland, and many other "affluent" suburbs.

[lawdog77]

None of the above discuss has convinced me that Chicago is a bad place to live. My son and his family still lives there, one of my best friends just moved to Lincoln Park from Wisconsin and absolutely loves it, and I still have numerous friends who live there and vow they'd never live anyplace else.

Bad things happen there occasionally, too -- like anywhere else USA. Oklahoma is melting, St. Louis is under water has Cardinals fans, Florida is feuding with Disney, Texas is having problems with its grid, California is on fire, Arizona has no water and Denver will be there soon, there have been 1000+ monkeypox cases in NYC, and there have been numerous horrific shootings in small towns this year.

Fixed a couple of things for you, no charge

[dgies9156]

None of the above discuss has convinced me that Chicago is a bad place to live. My son and his family still lives there, one of my best friends just moved to Lincoln Park from Wisconsin and absolutely loves it, and I still have numerous friends who live there and vow they'd never live anyplace else.

Bad things happen there occasionally, too -- like anywhere else USA. Oklahoma is melting, St. Louis is under water, Florida is feuding with Disney, Texas is having problems with its grid, California is on fire, Arizona has no water, there have been 1000+ monkeypox cases in NYC, and there have been numerous horrific shootings in small towns this year.

Look, nobody is suggesting Chicago is bad place. What we are suggesting is that the city and state have serious financial problems. People who live here now have a massive tax burden (state, federal and local), with our property taxes being among the most severe in the United States. The financial problems are going to be someone's burden to solve, especially since nobody in government now wants to truly deal with it.

Illinois' governor tried to get Pension relief in the Covid-19 relief bills. That went nowhere!

Sure Florida's governor has picked a fight with Disney that neither side can win. It's stupid, especially since Disney is our state's largest private sector employer and has delayed moving 2,600 creative jobs to Lake Nona for at least two years. It's also stupid because Disney has a way of biting our governor in the backside if and when he runs for President.

Finally, YES MISSOURI HAS CARDINAL FANS. One of its finer points!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Look, nobody is suggesting Chicago is bad place. What we are suggesting is that the city and state have serious financial problems. People who live here now have a massive tax burden (state, federal and local), with our property taxes being among the most severe in the United States. The financial problems are going to be someone's burden to solve, especially since nobody in government now wants to truly deal with it.

Illinois' governor tried to get Pension relief in the Covid-19 relief bills. That went nowhere!

Sure Florida's governor has picked a fight with Disney that neither side can win. It's stupid, especially since Disney is our state's largest private sector employer and has delayed moving 2,600 creative jobs to Lake Nona for at least two years. It's also stupid because Disney has a way of biting our governor in the backside if and when he runs for President.

Finally, YES MISSOURI HAS CARDINAL FANS. One of its finer points!

But no one is denying that the tax burden is high. I think we are objecting to chick suggesting that 23 year olds shouldn’t be advised to move there because of that burden. There is more that goes into such decisions than the taxes you pay.

[MU82]

Look, nobody is suggesting Chicago is bad place. What we are suggesting is that the city and state have serious financial problems. People who live here now have a massive tax burden (state, federal and local), with our property taxes being among the most severe in the United States. The financial problems are going to be someone's burden to solve, especially since nobody in government now wants to truly deal with it.

Illinois' governor tried to get Pension relief in the Covid-19 relief bills. That went nowhere!

Sure Florida's governor has picked a fight with Disney that neither side can win. It's stupid, especially since Disney is our state's largest private sector employer and has delayed moving 2,600 creative jobs to Lake Nona for at least two years. It's also stupid because Disney has a way of biting our governor in the backside if and when he runs for President.

Finally, YES MISSOURI HAS CARDINAL FANS. One of its finer points!

Illinois' financial problems wouldn't dissuade me from living there, and they sure wouldn't if I were 23.

[dgies9156]

This is not a fact.
Illinois suffered significant undercounting during the 2020 census, leading to the mistaken conclusion that the state lost residents over the previous ten years — when in reality it added more than a quarter of a million people and swelled to its largest population ever.
That’s the stunning revelation from a report the U.S. Census Bureau itself released on Thursday, admitting that its ten-year head counts were off in more than a dozen states.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/illinois-undercounted-in-2020-census-actually-grew-to-13-million-the-states-largest-population-ever/2837753/

I'm not sure I'd make a point with the Lovely Allison News. Yikes!

Channel 5 News is an embarrassment to the news profession. It's the most shallow reporting on earth, matched only by Channels 2 and 7 in Chicago.

I won't go into the census other than to say, what's official is official. States that lose Congressional seats and federal dollars due to a declining percentage of the U.S. are going to scream about undercount. You generally don't hear the same chorus in Texas, Florida or Tennessee.

Officially, Illinois lost population. Call me back in 10 years when we have the next census.

[Pakuni]

I'm not sure I'd make a point with the Lovely Allison News. Yikes!

Channel 5 News is an embarrassment to the news profession. It's the most shallow reporting on earth, matched only by Channels 2 and 7 in Chicago.

I won't go into the census other than to say, what's official is official. States that lose Congressional seats and federal dollars due to a declining percentage of the U.S. are going to scream about undercount. You generally don't hear the same chorus in Texas, Florida or Tennessee.

Officially, Illinois lost population. Call me back in 10 years when we have the next census.

Really? The Census Bureau literally says Illinois gained population, but you're sticking to your guns? Did you do you own count?
Don't  like NBC 5? Fine.
Here's the Tribune
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-census-update-illinois-population-gain-20220523-jj3aztzfibf4xbom6vsdnl2kg4-story.html

And Sun-Times
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/5/19/23131741/illinois-2020-census-undercount-population-gain-pritzker-welch-democrats-republican-trump

And Capitol News/Daily Herald
https://www.dailyherald.com/news/20220519/census-officials-say-illinois-was-undercounted-in-2020-by-250000-residents

And NPR
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/19/1099810793/census-undercount-by-state-arkansas-florida-illinois-mississippi-tennessee-texas

And here is the Census Bureau itself
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/coverage-measurement/pes/census-coverage-estimates-for-people-in-the-united-states-by-state-and-census-operations.pdf

[dgies9156]

Back to the issue at hand:

My daughter and son-in-law live in Castle Rock, CO. They moved there a year ago so he could take an incredible job for a company based in Colorado. It's cutting edge stuff and the core of what he is doing is highly classified. It's so classified that the powers that be in government are interviewing both he and my daughter. They're going to love that she was born in Belarus.

The open question is whether they'll come back to Chicago someday. My son is here, as is most of my son-in-law's family. My daughter and SIL have begun to settle and find their way in the Denver suburbs. Yet, they come here and fall in love with green and humidity -- both of which are severely lacking in the Denver metro. My wife and I have different opinions. She listens to the complaining and is confident they will be back. I, on the other hand, don't believe he'll ever find anything here that's as challenging as what he is doing in Denver. She's not going to find a situation as much to her liking as she has right now in Castle Rock -- graphic designer at a printing company five minutes from her house.

They're both outdoorsy people and hike, bike and camp in the nearby mountains. If they come back, they'll be in exurbia somewhere near Wisconsin!

The longer they stay, the more likely it is they won't be back. I think the cross-point probably is two-to-three years from now. And, if he shows up in a Peyton Manning Broncos jersey, well, he aint coming back.

[MU82]

For those who .. lived somewhere in adulthood for XX years, then moved away:  How'd you deal with the loss of acquaintances/friends?

While so many folks move somewhere else when the kids are grown or after retirement .. I've thought about it too, but I find it hard to comprehend how one flushes 95% of the relationships you've built over the years and start over.

I think it'd be cool to live in the mountains and/or somewhere warm in the winter, but the thought of zeroing out the people I know seems like such a negative, I'd feel very alone in my new beautiful atmosphere.

So for those who did it .. how was that aspect?

We've now made 3 major moves as adults and didn't know a single soul in 2 of them (Minneapolis and Charlotte).

It comes down to a few things ...

How easily do you make friends? Are you willing to join groups of like-minded people even if you don't know anybody? Are you an extrovert or introvert?

For example, within a couple months after moving to Charlotte, I found out who ran the local Marquette chapter and we went to the game-watching get-togethers they had for the season opener and Madison. We made a few friends on those occasions that we still hang out with today. We have friends through my wife's work, through my umpiring and coaching, and who live in our neighborhood. I played in a softball league for 5 years and am still very friendly with several of those guys, a number of whom are either in my poker group, my beer group or both.

As for those we left behind ... first and foremost, our son still lives in Chicago and now he has a wife and kids. So we get there several times a year. And on most of those occasions we make the effort to get together with good friends from our Chicago years. (They've also visited us here.)

And it's not like the olden days when it was out of sight out of mind; nowadays IG, FB, FaceTime, etc, can keep you up with what's going on "back home" pretty darn well.

But I certainly can see how a person who is a little shy or who is extremely attached to his or her group of friends wouldn't want to move. And it helps explain why most don't.

[dgies9156]

We've now made 3 major moves as adults and didn't know a single soul in 2 of them (Minneapolis and Charlotte).

It comes down to a few things ...

How easily do you make friends? Are you willing to join groups of like-minded people even if you don't know anybody? Are you an extrovert or introvert?

For example, within a couple months after moving to Charlotte, I found out who ran the local Marquette chapter and we went to the game-watching get-togethers they had for the season opener and Madison. We made a few friends on those occasions that we still hang out with today. We have friends through my wife's work, through my umpiring and coaching, and who live in our neighborhood. I played in a softball league for 5 years and am still very friendly with several of those guys, a number of whom are either in my poker group, my beer group or both.

As for those we left behind ... first and foremost, our son still lives in Chicago and now he has a wife and kids. So we get there several times a year. And on most of those occasions we make the effort to get together with good friends from our Chicago years. (They've also visited us here.)

And it's not like the olden days when it was out of sight out of mind; nowadays IG, FB, FaceTime, etc, can keep you up with what's going on "back home" pretty darn well.

But I certainly can see how a person who is a little shy or who is extremely attached to his or her group of friends wouldn't want to move. And it helps explain why most don't.

Right on the money, Brother MU!  +1000