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* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Poll

What current players will have the most year to year improvement in the coming season?

O-Max
Joplin
Oso
Stevie
Kam
Kolek
EE

Author Topic: Poll:Year to Year Improvement  (Read 8071 times)

withoutbias

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2023, 08:23:53 PM »
Hol up, can I also go back to when I said wojo was worthless a year into his coaching?

Sure. Then do your “I’m not a TWolves fan!” Despite posting dozens of times in the NBA a thread, every single one crying about the TWolves.

tower912

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2023, 09:23:09 PM »
Go for it.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

PointWarrior

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2023, 10:46:50 PM »
Scoop thinks no player improves in the off season.

Farley36

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2023, 11:15:17 PM »
Think they all do... no real duds there.  OF those 7, EE and TK look hardest pressed to make any big leap forward.  EE in Jr. year if he’s still here.

This was a real brilliant take on TK. 

Lennys Tap

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2023, 10:12:19 AM »
This was a real brilliant take on TK.

6 people out of 159 picked TK (the no argument correct answer) - his performance shocked most of the Scoop community.



Hards Alumni

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #30 on: July 05, 2023, 02:08:33 PM »
6 people out of 159 picked TK (the no argument correct answer) - his performance shocked most of the Scoop community.

I chose Omax, and he ended up in the NBA.

Jay Bee

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2023, 03:50:13 PM »
I chose Omax, and he ended up in the NBA.

Potential vs performance ma boi
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Hards Alumni

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2023, 03:55:28 PM »
Potential vs performance ma boi

The poll was year to year improvement.

mileskishnish72

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2023, 07:09:43 AM »
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.

MU82

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2023, 08:09:01 AM »
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.

This is a totally legit take. Think about how incredible it is that the 3 guys you mentioned actually improved more year-over-year than a player who ended up being a first-round draft pick.

I hope we're having a similar debate this time next year, fresh off the glow of Marquette's Final Four trip!
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2023, 09:21:58 AM »
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.

Besides Ellis, I'd rank Kam and Oso last for improvement. Not because they didn't improve but because they had strong starting points already. I think Kolek is the clear winner with Joplin, OMax, and Stevie taking the next three spots
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tower912

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2023, 09:30:22 AM »
I missed on Keeyan as big as I hit on OMax.    Ah, well.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jfp61

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2023, 10:31:34 AM »
Honestly turns out it was just our whole starting five, plus Joplin improved a lot.

If i had to order them. I would go in order of most improvement i would go, Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, OMax, Oso, and then Joplin. But having Oso and Joplin at 5th and 6th most feels disgusting. Oso's year two to three jump was bigger than Lewis's jump last year, and Joplin was nearly as large as Lewis's last year as well.

MU82

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2023, 01:11:33 PM »
Besides Ellis, I'd rank Kam and Oso last for improvement. Not because they didn't improve but because they had strong starting points already. I think Kolek is the clear winner with Joplin, OMax, and Stevie taking the next three spots

It's rare for me to disagree with you, TAMU, but here's one time. As a sophomore, Oso was a decent defensive-minded backup who showed next to nothing offensively. When Shaka said before last season that Oso would have the ball in playmaking positions more than any 5 in America, there were plenty of doubters -- because he had shown next-to-nothing in that department the previous year.

That he ended up being a revelation as a playmaker and offense-setter, while also improving as a defender, and that he was (IMHO) #1A as team MVP, I think he improved a TON.

I mean, I get what you're saying -- Stevie could barely get on the court as a freshman, so the mere fact that he became such a solid defensive contributor and energy guy as a soph meant he improved "more" than Oso. I get it, but I think it's incorrect.
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DoctorV

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2023, 02:26:00 PM »
I’m not trying to rain on the parade or anything, and I’m usually pretty glass half full, but I’d imagine that given the astronomic improvement of last season that at some point someone has got to regress, or at the very least stagnate, right?

Good news is that given Shakas track record I think we can be pretty confident that overall we will continue to see a majority of improvements year after year for most of the guys, some more than others.

However, at some point it becomes a numbers game and not everyone can improve every year. Maybe in a season or two, but unrealistic for every season.

That said, who do we think could regress or stagnate? I honestly don’t know tbh, but my guess would look at the guard position for this season due to the amount of bodies.

I think last season I predicted it could be TyKo, and he turned into BEPoY, so this might be a good exercise.

I’ll go with TyKo again this season.

DoctorV

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2023, 02:33:24 PM »
Honestly turns out it was just our whole starting five, plus Joplin improved a lot.

If i had to order them. I would go in order of most improvement i would go, Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, OMax, Oso, and then Joplin. But having Oso and Joplin at 5th and 6th most feels disgusting. Oso's year two to three jump was bigger than Lewis's jump last year, and Joplin was nearly as large as Lewis's last year as well.

Not metrics based but Kolek, Oso, Kam are 1-3 for me with a decent amount of separation. Then I’d have Stevie, Omax, and Jop.

The 5th most improved was the most NBA draftable body and skill set, but it doesn’t mean he was more improved than the others.

I was also hard on OMax because of that athleticism and NBA type skill set and ability. He was great defensively, as we all expected, but a bigger improvement on the other end and with his ball movement/offensive feel for the game and more production on the glass would’ve made Marquette an elite 8 team or better last season imo.

brewcity77

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2023, 02:51:39 PM »
    Interesting question, and next year might deserve a thread of its own, but a few thoughts:

  • Tyler Kolek: I think he'll be about the same, if he steps back it will be minor. His 2P% might drop a little, but I think his assist rate and his long range shooting are both sustainable. He might be benefited by having a better shooting team around him. Fun fact: TK is just 175 assists from moving into second all time on the Marquette career assist list.
  • Kam Jones: His 2P% reminded me of Markus' sophomore year. Just a wizard around the rim and I imagine that comes down a bit. But I think he's better than a 36.0% shooter from long range, so that should offset the loss. I also think he ends up about the same overall.
  • Oso Ighodaro: This is my bet to take a step back. He led us in 2P% and offensive rating, and it seems likely not having much as much front court depth might take a toll on him. I also think teams will better scheme to take away his passing. The real question is if he can get to a 33% clip from three to make him a viable threat so teams have to respect him at the arc. If so, I could be completely wrong on him being the most likely to take a step back.
  • Stevie Mitchell: Of the regulars, I think he's the best bet to improve. He's a better shooter than he's shown, he was a prolific scorer in high school, and his work ethic is second to none.
  • David Joplin: I expect his minutes to tick up and his counting stats to be better, but I'm not sure he'll be much more efficient as he'll have to shoulder a bigger defensive load. Depending on how you define improvement, I think he'll be about the same but look better because the PPG/RPG will be up with his minutes increase.
  • Gold, Ross, S. Jones: This feels like where we'll see the real improvement. If there are jumps to be made, it's these guys. My money is on big jumps from Gold and Ross, which will be the depth that takes us from Big East favorite and top-10 team to true national title contender. If Gold and Ross have similar first>second year jumps that we've seen from Justin & Oso in their first to second years at Marquette and Kam, Stevie, Tyler, and O-Max had in their first to second years in the system, we should be cutting more nets in March and maybe April.
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brewcity77

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2023, 02:54:33 PM »
I was also hard on OMax because of that athleticism and NBA type skill set and ability. He was great defensively, as we all expected, but a bigger improvement on the other end and with his ball movement/offensive feel for the game and more production on the glass would’ve made Marquette an elite 8 team or better last season imo.

O-Max wasn't the reason for that. If Tyler was healthy in the tournament, we would've been playing on the first Monday in April (seriously, we win that MSU game and would've beat K-State, FAU, and SDSU, zero doubt) and may still be celebrating our second National Championship (we'd already beat UConn 2/3). His injury is why we lost to MSU and while it was still a season to remember, it was a finish to forget.
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Spotcheck Billy

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2023, 07:55:26 AM »
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Kam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2023, 09:29:18 AM by Spotcheck Billy »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2023, 08:04:26 AM »
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Cam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer.

I didn't know Cam was still trying to play,  good for him. I don't think he makes that much in NIL though :D
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Jay Bee

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2023, 08:33:21 AM »
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.

No
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Herman Cain

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2023, 08:36:36 AM »
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Cam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer.
Kam is ready for a monster season. TK feeding him is going to be a must see TV
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bilsu

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2023, 09:32:31 AM »
Kam is ready for a monster season. TK feeding him is going to be a must see TV

TKO to Oso is must see TV. Passing to Kam will not be as exciting.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2023, 01:38:48 PM »
I didn't know Cam was still trying to play,  good for him. I don't think he makes that much in NIL though :D

JB gonna be mad when he realizes you're stealing his schtik.

Herman Cain

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Re: Poll:Year to Year Improvement
« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2023, 01:40:49 PM »

TKO to Oso is must see TV. Passing to Kam will not be as exciting.
TKO to Kam with some of those shots before the end of the half were quit exciting
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