MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Herman Cain on April 16, 2022, 11:55:30 AM
-
Which current roster players will have the most year to year improvement in the coming season.
I did not include Keeyan as he sat the year , so there is no collegiate baseline .
-
It has to be EE or Joplin. Their production was at the floor. Everyone else is expected to contribute in some capacity.
-
Really hoping it's Oso. So many of the pieces there, and a natural shooting stroke (judging from FTs) that could transform his game.
-
I voted O-max, because he was the only birght spot against UNC.
-
I voted O-max, because he was the only birght spot against UNC.
Same here. Not just his play in that game. His effort (especially on D) never wavered, when so many had mailed it in. Blowout certain, OMax’s arms were still flailing wide, feet moving quickly laterally on D. I still like Joplin and Oso to make big strides, but IMO Omax will really Prosper next year! 😉
-
Voted O-Max with Joplin and Kolek as runners up. O-Max has the highest ceiling of any player on the roster and he was showing a nice uptrend the back half of last season.
-
Think they all do... no real duds there. OF those 7, EE and TK look hardest pressed to make any big leap forward. EE in Jr. year if he’s still here.
-
I look for Kam to move from complementary scorer to "go to" guy... and I also look for him to learn how to pass and create for others when he gets double teamed. By the 2nd time through the BEAST, he'll be averaging 18+ and he'll be seeing a lot of double teams.
-
noble
I agree that the returning guys all have upside potential. I am not sure who will have a breakout year, but fairly certain we will see nice improvement across the board. I said in an early post that all of the returning guys are basketball players and that is half of the battle. You usually see big upticks with guys that are learning to become basketball players instead of just being an athlete and I think our guys will work on refining their games during the offseason. Also, it would be nice to see a guy or two have a growth spurt or add some muscle.
-
noble
I agree that the returning guys all have upside potential. I am not sure who will have a breakout year, but fairly certain we will see nice improvement across the board. I said in an early post that all of the returning guys are basketball players and that is half of the battle. You usually see big upticks with guys that are learning to become basketball players instead of just being an athlete and I think our guys will work on refining their games during the offseason. Also, it would be nice to see a guy or two have a growth spurt or add some muscle.
Jumping in here to add to the last point goose makes here. Really hope to see a noticeable difference in strength from the guys coming back. Less beanpoles and more dudes
-
I look for Kam to move from complementary scorer to "go to" guy... and I also look for him to learn how to pass and create for others when he gets double teamed. By the 2nd time through the BEAST, he'll be averaging 18+ and he'll be seeing a lot of double teams.
Im a big Kam guy and expect a nice jump from him.
But 18+ per game over a full half the BE schedule is a bit of a leap.
-
I look for Kam to move from complementary scorer to "go to" guy... and I also look for him to learn how to pass and create for others when he gets double teamed. By the 2nd time through the BEAST, he'll be averaging 18+ and he'll be seeing a lot of double teams.
I'm not sure. I love me some Kam but he strikes me as a high floor, low ceiling type guy. I think we will love him while he is here but he will always be the Robin, never the Batman.
-
I'm not sure. I love me some Kam but he strikes me as a high floor, low ceiling type guy. I think we will love him while he is here but he will always be the Robin, never the Batman.
I agree with this completely. He seems to me to be the guy you can ride when he is hot, but I don't think he is great at creating either for himself or others.
I think Mitchell has the higher ceiling frankly.
-
I said Stevie, for two reasons. First, things seemed to start clicking for him towards the end of the season, in a positive way. Second, with Darryl gone, and no sense that Shaka will bring another experienced guard, a role and playing time may open for Stevie.
-
I look for Kam to move from complementary scorer to "go to" guy... and I also look for him to learn how to pass and create for others when he gets double teamed. By the 2nd time through the BEAST, he'll be averaging 18+ and he'll be seeing a lot of double teams.
I'm not sure. I love me some Kam but he strikes me as a high floor, low ceiling type guy. I think we will love him while he is here but he will always be the Robin, never the Batman.
If Justin goes, it's hard to see this team having any real go-to guy -- the guy who takes over most games when necessary.
I think Kam can become A go-to guy. That's as opposed to THE go-to guy. I can see there being games where he gets hot and/or has a matchup advantage, and Shaka rides it. I also can see there being games where he simply doesn't have it; in such circumstances this past season, we saw that Shaka wasn't afraid to bench even his favorites like Morsell and Kolek.
So I guess I somewhat agree with you and with WarriorFan -- I think he very well might be the go-to guy (or Batman) on some occasions but also will be "just a guy" (or Robin) on many others.
-
If Justin goes, it's hard to see this team having any real go-to guy -- the guy who takes over most games when necessary.
I think Kam can become A go-to guy. That's as opposed to THE go-to guy. I can see there being games where he gets hot and/or has a matchup advantage, and Shaka rides it. I also can see there being games where he simply doesn't have it; in such circumstances this past season, we saw that Shaka wasn't afraid to bench even his favorites like Morsell and Kolek.
So I guess I somewhat agree with you and with WarriorFan -- I think he very well might be the go-to guy (or Batman) on some occasions but also will be "just a guy" (or Robin) on many others.
Well, considering JL was SOTG only 7 times out of 19, did we really have a consistent go to guy last year?
-
I think OMP transitions from Jamil's body and Juan's talent to Jamil's talent with Juan's motor and heart. I think we are talking about OMP and the league a year from now.
I would like to think we are talking about the Big East trying to keep up with the Joneses, but I think that is a year away.
I think Stevie makes a significant jump.
I think Wrightsil keep Joplin coming off the bench.
I think we see a deeper rotation all season long. Realistically, MU was playing 8 at the end if the year. Neither Greg nor Kam were hitting. Joplin was 3 minute cameos. Stevie and OMP were on the upswing.
I am more optimistic than I was a year ago. Then again, Shaka's second year at Texas was lousy. Maybe the lack of upperclassmen is too much to overcome.
-
I think OMP transitions from Jamil's body and Juan's talent to Jamil's talent with Juan's motor and heart. I think we are talking about OMP and the league a year from now.
Bring out the blender. No, but I think OMP makes the biggest jump next year. He showed a lot of potential last year.
-
I'm not sure. I love me some Kam but he strikes me as a high floor, low ceiling type guy. I think we will love him while he is here but he will always be the Robin, never the Batman.
I think thats a really good assumption/prediction for Kam.
Gonna be a fun player throughout his time here and will continue to get better while being a microwave scorer. But i expect him to be more of a consistent 2/3rd option that can average 14 ppg as a realistic peak.
Think we will have better all around scorers and players each of his seasons here that lead the team
-
Went with Stevie. Think he will end up being a very good four year player for us.
-
I voted Jop. I think he'll eventually emerge as our leading scorer, but it may not be next season. However, even if he improves enough to where he's playing 20 minutes a game next season, that may be enough to qualify as the biggest improvement on the team with his volume shooting and scoring increase.
-
I voted OMax.
Plain and simple he will be on the court the most. At his age he is still kinda growing into his body but Shaka made it clear he always guards the other teams best player and he already came a long way offensively. I know for sure he will get a ton of minutes.
As far as the rest, I have no clue how much they will actually play. Oso could be a two headed monster with Washington or another big. Joplin is going to be really good, but so will Gold. Will Gold play the 5 or take minutes from the other 4's?
So many questions revolve around every position except OMax.
-
I think OMP transitions from Jamil's body and Juan's talent to Jamil's talent with Juan's motor and heart. I think we are talking about OMP and the league a year from now.
Went back and found where I first said, well, what I said. Feeling pretty good about this one. April 18, 2022
-
Went back and found where I first said, well, what I said. Feeling pretty good about this one. April 18, 2022
Don't injure your shoulder patting yourself on the back, tower!
Seriously, that was a great call - obviously. Well done.
-
Went back and found where I first said, well, what I said. Feeling pretty good about this one. April 18, 2022
Hol up, can I also go back to when I said wojo was worthless a year into his coaching?
-
Hol up, can I also go back to when I said wojo was worthless a year into his coaching?
Sure. Then do your “I’m not a TWolves fan!” Despite posting dozens of times in the NBA a thread, every single one crying about the TWolves.
-
Go for it.
-
Scoop thinks no player improves in the off season.
-
Think they all do... no real duds there. OF those 7, EE and TK look hardest pressed to make any big leap forward. EE in Jr. year if he’s still here.
This was a real brilliant take on TK.
-
This was a real brilliant take on TK.
6 people out of 159 picked TK (the no argument correct answer) - his performance shocked most of the Scoop community.
-
6 people out of 159 picked TK (the no argument correct answer) - his performance shocked most of the Scoop community.
I chose Omax, and he ended up in the NBA.
-
I chose Omax, and he ended up in the NBA.
Potential vs performance ma boi
-
Potential vs performance ma boi
The poll was year to year improvement.
-
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.
-
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.
This is a totally legit take. Think about how incredible it is that the 3 guys you mentioned actually improved more year-over-year than a player who ended up being a first-round draft pick.
I hope we're having a similar debate this time next year, fresh off the glow of Marquette's Final Four trip!
-
A case could be made that the three most-improved were Kolek, Kam, and Oso. That trio each got only around 10% of the vote.
Besides Ellis, I'd rank Kam and Oso last for improvement. Not because they didn't improve but because they had strong starting points already. I think Kolek is the clear winner with Joplin, OMax, and Stevie taking the next three spots
-
I missed on Keeyan as big as I hit on OMax. Ah, well.
-
Honestly turns out it was just our whole starting five, plus Joplin improved a lot.
If i had to order them. I would go in order of most improvement i would go, Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, OMax, Oso, and then Joplin. But having Oso and Joplin at 5th and 6th most feels disgusting. Oso's year two to three jump was bigger than Lewis's jump last year, and Joplin was nearly as large as Lewis's last year as well.
-
Besides Ellis, I'd rank Kam and Oso last for improvement. Not because they didn't improve but because they had strong starting points already. I think Kolek is the clear winner with Joplin, OMax, and Stevie taking the next three spots
It's rare for me to disagree with you, TAMU, but here's one time. As a sophomore, Oso was a decent defensive-minded backup who showed next to nothing offensively. When Shaka said before last season that Oso would have the ball in playmaking positions more than any 5 in America, there were plenty of doubters -- because he had shown next-to-nothing in that department the previous year.
That he ended up being a revelation as a playmaker and offense-setter, while also improving as a defender, and that he was (IMHO) #1A as team MVP, I think he improved a TON.
I mean, I get what you're saying -- Stevie could barely get on the court as a freshman, so the mere fact that he became such a solid defensive contributor and energy guy as a soph meant he improved "more" than Oso. I get it, but I think it's incorrect.
-
I’m not trying to rain on the parade or anything, and I’m usually pretty glass half full, but I’d imagine that given the astronomic improvement of last season that at some point someone has got to regress, or at the very least stagnate, right?
Good news is that given Shakas track record I think we can be pretty confident that overall we will continue to see a majority of improvements year after year for most of the guys, some more than others.
However, at some point it becomes a numbers game and not everyone can improve every year. Maybe in a season or two, but unrealistic for every season.
That said, who do we think could regress or stagnate? I honestly don’t know tbh, but my guess would look at the guard position for this season due to the amount of bodies.
I think last season I predicted it could be TyKo, and he turned into BEPoY, so this might be a good exercise.
I’ll go with TyKo again this season.
-
Honestly turns out it was just our whole starting five, plus Joplin improved a lot.
If i had to order them. I would go in order of most improvement i would go, Kolek, Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, OMax, Oso, and then Joplin. But having Oso and Joplin at 5th and 6th most feels disgusting. Oso's year two to three jump was bigger than Lewis's jump last year, and Joplin was nearly as large as Lewis's last year as well.
Not metrics based but Kolek, Oso, Kam are 1-3 for me with a decent amount of separation. Then I’d have Stevie, Omax, and Jop.
The 5th most improved was the most NBA draftable body and skill set, but it doesn’t mean he was more improved than the others.
I was also hard on OMax because of that athleticism and NBA type skill set and ability. He was great defensively, as we all expected, but a bigger improvement on the other end and with his ball movement/offensive feel for the game and more production on the glass would’ve made Marquette an elite 8 team or better last season imo.
-
Interesting question, and next year might deserve a thread of its own, but a few thoughts:
- Tyler Kolek: I think he'll be about the same, if he steps back it will be minor. His 2P% might drop a little, but I think his assist rate and his long range shooting are both sustainable. He might be benefited by having a better shooting team around him. Fun fact: TK is just 175 assists from moving into second all time on the Marquette career assist list.
- Kam Jones: His 2P% reminded me of Markus' sophomore year. Just a wizard around the rim and I imagine that comes down a bit. But I think he's better than a 36.0% shooter from long range, so that should offset the loss. I also think he ends up about the same overall.
- Oso Ighodaro: This is my bet to take a step back. He led us in 2P% and offensive rating, and it seems likely not having much as much front court depth might take a toll on him. I also think teams will better scheme to take away his passing. The real question is if he can get to a 33% clip from three to make him a viable threat so teams have to respect him at the arc. If so, I could be completely wrong on him being the most likely to take a step back.
- Stevie Mitchell: Of the regulars, I think he's the best bet to improve. He's a better shooter than he's shown, he was a prolific scorer in high school, and his work ethic is second to none.
- David Joplin: I expect his minutes to tick up and his counting stats to be better, but I'm not sure he'll be much more efficient as he'll have to shoulder a bigger defensive load. Depending on how you define improvement, I think he'll be about the same but look better because the PPG/RPG will be up with his minutes increase.
- Gold, Ross, S. Jones: This feels like where we'll see the real improvement. If there are jumps to be made, it's these guys. My money is on big jumps from Gold and Ross, which will be the depth that takes us from Big East favorite and top-10 team to true national title contender. If Gold and Ross have similar first>second year jumps that we've seen from Justin & Oso in their first to second years at Marquette and Kam, Stevie, Tyler, and O-Max had in their first to second years in the system, we should be cutting more nets in March and maybe April.
-
I was also hard on OMax because of that athleticism and NBA type skill set and ability. He was great defensively, as we all expected, but a bigger improvement on the other end and with his ball movement/offensive feel for the game and more production on the glass would’ve made Marquette an elite 8 team or better last season imo.
O-Max wasn't the reason for that. If Tyler was healthy in the tournament, we would've been playing on the first Monday in April (seriously, we win that MSU game and would've beat K-State, FAU, and SDSU, zero doubt) and may still be celebrating our second National Championship (we'd already beat UConn 2/3). His injury is why we lost to MSU and while it was still a season to remember, it was a finish to forget.
-
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Kam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer. (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/09/01/marquette-guards-tyler-kolek-and-kam-jones-at-damian-lillards-camp/70719854007/)
-
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Cam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer. (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/09/01/marquette-guards-tyler-kolek-and-kam-jones-at-damian-lillards-camp/70719854007/)
I didn't know Cam was still trying to play, good for him. I don't think he makes that much in NIL though :D
-
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
No
-
Ben Steele's newest with updates on how Tyler and Cam worked out at Damian Lillard's Formula Zero camp, had to pass on invites to Chris Paul'sElite Guard camp because of the Italy trip.
I wonder if NIL $$$ are what allows them to afford the camps, travel etc.
Marquette stars will play basketball anywhere, against anyone, as they showed all summer. (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/09/01/marquette-guards-tyler-kolek-and-kam-jones-at-damian-lillards-camp/70719854007/)
Kam is ready for a monster season. TK feeding him is going to be a must see TV
-
Kam is ready for a monster season. TK feeding him is going to be a must see TV
TKO to Oso is must see TV. Passing to Kam will not be as exciting.
-
I didn't know Cam was still trying to play, good for him. I don't think he makes that much in NIL though :D
JB gonna be mad when he realizes you're stealing his schtik.
-
TKO to Oso is must see TV. Passing to Kam will not be as exciting.
TKO to Kam with some of those shots before the end of the half were quit exciting
-
Interesting question, and next year might deserve a thread of its own, but a few thoughts:
- Tyler Kolek: I think he'll be about the same, if he steps back it will be minor. His 2P% might drop a little, but I think his assist rate and his long range shooting are both sustainable. He might be benefited by having a better shooting team around him. Fun fact: TK is just 175 assists from moving into second all time on the Marquette career assist list.
- Kam Jones: His 2P% reminded me of Markus' sophomore year. Just a wizard around the rim and I imagine that comes down a bit. But I think he's better than a 36.0% shooter from long range, so that should offset the loss. I also think he ends up about the same overall.
- Oso Ighodaro: This is my bet to take a step back. He led us in 2P% and offensive rating, and it seems likely not having much as much front court depth might take a toll on him. I also think teams will better scheme to take away his passing. The real question is if he can get to a 33% clip from three to make him a viable threat so teams have to respect him at the arc. If so, I could be completely wrong on him being the most likely to take a step back.
- Stevie Mitchell: Of the regulars, I think he's the best bet to improve. He's a better shooter than he's shown, he was a prolific scorer in high school, and his work ethic is second to none.
- David Joplin: I expect his minutes to tick up and his counting stats to be better, but I'm not sure he'll be much more efficient as he'll have to shoulder a bigger defensive load. Depending on how you define improvement, I think he'll be about the same but look better because the PPG/RPG will be up with his minutes increase.
- Gold, Ross, S. Jones: This feels like where we'll see the real improvement. If there are jumps to be made, it's these guys. My money is on big jumps from Gold and Ross, which will be the depth that takes us from Big East favorite and top-10 team to true national title contender. If Gold and Ross have similar first>second year jumps that we've seen from Justin & Oso in their first to second years at Marquette and Kam, Stevie, Tyler, and O-Max had in their first to second years in the system, we should be cutting more nets in March and maybe April.
Brew…great point about Stevie. He is far more gifted offensively than we’ve seen. If he takes a big step forward in asserting himself on the offensive end of the floor, we become even more dangerous. If Stevie averages 15 ppg, we win a naty.
-
JB gonna be mad when he realizes you're stealing his schtik.
This made me laugh out loud
-
JB gonna be mad when he realizes you're stealing his schtik.
schtick, not schtik.
-
schtick, not schtik.
#Lies
https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/schtik-vs-shtick (https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/schtik-vs-shtick)
-
Brew…great point about Stevie. He is far more gifted offensively than we’ve seen. If he takes a big step forward in asserting himself on the offensive end of the floor, we become even more dangerous. If Stevie averages 15 ppg, we win a naty.
Stevie is not going to approach 15 PPG if the team is healthy. If he can score closer to 10 PPG and improve his 3-pt % while remaining a defensive menace that will be outstanding.
-
#Lies
https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/schtik-vs-shtick (https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/schtik-vs-shtick)
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/schtick
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/schtick
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/schtick
But yes, it does look like both shtick and, in lesser references, schtik, are acceptable.
Scho pleasch let me apologische!
-
Stevie is not going to approach 15 PPG if the team is healthy. If he can score closer to 10 PPG and improve his 3-pt % while remaining a defensive menace that will be outstanding.
My point wasn’t so much about Stevie’s ppg but him becoming more of an offensive threat. Things will open up if defenses have to worry about him knocking down shots.
-
My point wasn’t so much about Stevie’s ppg but him becoming more of an offensive threat. Things will open up if defenses have to worry about him knocking down shots.
Agreed.