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Date/Time: Oct 1, 2022, 7:00 pm
TV: NA
Schedule for 2021-22
19-13

Author Topic: Justin  (Read 90979 times)

Elonsmusk

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1400 on: June 22, 2022, 01:02:02 PM »
I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin.  Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't.  Jae was an incredible defender.  Justin?  Average.  Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.

I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete.  I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working.  Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop.  I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM.  Lots to work with/potential.

CountryRoads

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1401 on: June 22, 2022, 01:08:11 PM »
I don’t disagree. That doesn’t equate to “lazy” however.

Relative to the average person, I wouldn’t consider Lewis lazy at all. Though, his lack of motor is one of his biggest weaknesses as numerous NBA scouts and many on here have pointed out in the last few months.

If you look at the most recent MU forwards that were drafted (Hayward, Crowder, Butler), I would rank Lewis last in the “effort” categories that are sometimes hard to quantify (charges taken, 50/50 balls won, deflections, etc).

I think Lewis could have a bright career as an NBA player, but it’ll need to be more in the trenches than what we saw at MU.

brewcity77

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1402 on: June 22, 2022, 01:10:44 PM »
I agree that there were games he was bad. There always will be games like that, especially with a 19/20 year old. But to say he gave up is just a slap in the face IMO.

In those 4 games:

129 minutes (32.25 avg.)
23-59 from the field
61 points
31 rebounds

Bad yes. Gave up. No chance.

As Sultan said, you are free to hold that opinion, but the idea that there were effort questions around Justin have come from online fans, NBA scouts, and coaches in the league. If it was just a couple Scoopers, I could see dismissing it, but if I were in Justin's shoes, it's certainly something I'd be working my ass off to disprove when it comes to workouts and interviews, because it does seem to be a genuine concern held by basketball professionals beyond this board.
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Newsdreams

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1403 on: June 22, 2022, 01:11:33 PM »
I think it’s more his personality than anything. It did appear he coasted at points during the season and appeared disinterested, but compare the bad moments with the good moments - nova game winning shot - and he was very stoic after.

Watching him for two seasons, he isn’t a lazy player, but is still learning how to be assertive on the offensive end. You can find knocks on him, but laziness is definitely not one of them.
He started getting double teamed a lot and became the focus of teams once MU was figured out. They were letting other players be the offensive focus, it gets exhausting for a player to be double team continuously.
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brewcity77

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1404 on: June 22, 2022, 01:14:33 PM »
I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin.  Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't.  Jae was an incredible defender.  Justin?  Average.  Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.

I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete.  I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working.  Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop.  I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM.  Lots to work with/potential.

Jae is a guy who's a really difficult comp for just about anyone. Honestly, I'd compare him more to a Rodman type than anyone else. They may have had different games, but both guys played positions typically held by bigger men and found their success primarily through sheer force of will. I've seen very few players who had the indomitable effort level Jae did. It's also the main reason I expected him to stick in the league for a long time, simply because he's that guy who'll always bust his ass to find a place.
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Nukem2

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1405 on: June 22, 2022, 01:15:46 PM »
I don't see Jae Crowder as a comp for Justin.  Jae played with a tenacity and toughness that Justin (and few others for that matter) doesn't.  Jae was an incredible defender.  Justin?  Average.  Justin trumps Jae in overall athleticism - better jumper, better overall frame for the NBA, I'd argue a better shooter, and higher upside.

I don't feel Justin was lazy as a player at MU, he's just a guy who is a fluid-type of athlete.  I think it's easy to mistake a fluid player as not be hard working.  Justin is 20 years old and has a lot of time to develop.  I definitely like him as an early 2nd round pick if I'm a GM.  Lots to work with/potential.
Jae was a better shooter than Justin in his 2 seasons.  Jae was 35% on treys and 58% on two pointers while Justin was 33% and 49%….

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1406 on: June 22, 2022, 01:26:37 PM »
Justin wasn't lazy and I don't recall any games where he "gave up".  However, there were moments here and there where there was a bad play or a lapse and he would put his head down, or have poor body language, or not hustle back.  Those didn't happen often but that did occur.  I think people put more weight on them and even incorrectly start to believe those instances were much more common than they actually were.

I also have to imagine this was part of the feedback Justin received as he went through the pre-draft process and is something that is easily correctable. 

LAZER

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1407 on: June 22, 2022, 01:59:00 PM »
Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.

BrewCity83

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1408 on: June 22, 2022, 02:19:06 PM »
Comparable for Jae:  Marcus Smart?
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MU82

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1409 on: June 22, 2022, 03:36:27 PM »
Justin wasn't lazy and I don't recall any games where he "gave up".  However, there were moments here and there where there was a bad play or a lapse and he would put his head down, or have poor body language, or not hustle back.  Those didn't happen often but that did occur.  I think people put more weight on them and even incorrectly start to believe those instances were much more common than they actually were.

I also have to imagine this was part of the feedback Justin received as he went through the pre-draft process and is something that is easily correctable.

Yes. And every other player did the same. In an ideal world, as the best player, Justin never would have relented or put his head down for one second, but that's simply not realistic. You miss a layup or throw a bad pass, and you're mad at yourself, and that can cause you to be a couple seconds late getting back. It happens to every player, including the best in the world.

Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.

Not splitting hairs at all IMHO -- this is an excellent take.
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User Name #251

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1410 on: June 22, 2022, 03:48:13 PM »
Just my two cents, but I think the critique is that they wish Justin was more of a "high motor" guy which isn't to say he's lazy. Might be splitting hairs, but that's my take.

Yep yep
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GoldenEagles03

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1411 on: June 22, 2022, 03:50:58 PM »
Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.

28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.
VIOLENCE!

brewcity77

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1412 on: June 22, 2022, 08:42:03 PM »
Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.

28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.

The only thing lazy here is your comparison. Howard was injured.
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PGsHeroes32

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1413 on: June 22, 2022, 08:47:49 PM »
Justin was lazy in the same way Markus Howard was lazy in finishing 28-93 in his last 5 games of his Junior season.

28-93
30% in what was supposed to be the most promising season in years. Too bad he was lazy too.

I just read through the last two pages and the only thing lazy is your attempts to follow along with the discussion that everyone else is having.
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GoldenEagles03

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1414 on: June 22, 2022, 11:08:29 PM »
The only thing lazy here is your comparison. Howard was injured.

Injured and lazy. Terrible combo.
VIOLENCE!

WarriorFan

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1415 on: June 23, 2022, 12:28:06 AM »
Comparable for Jae:  Marcus Smart?
That's an insult to Jae
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JWags85

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1416 on: June 23, 2022, 12:55:10 AM »
Comparable for Jae:  Marcus Smart?

Not even close.  Smart is a 6'3 PG/combo guard.  And he never did his damage inside like Jae has.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1417 on: June 23, 2022, 06:05:22 AM »
My comp for Justin is Kyle Anderson.

With the potential to be more athletic.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 06:09:41 AM by GoldenEagles03 »
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1418 on: June 23, 2022, 06:34:23 AM »
My comp for Justin is Kyle Anderson.

With the potential to be more athletic.

He reminds me of Travis Diener
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Marquette Overload

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1419 on: June 23, 2022, 09:26:05 AM »
Cheap plug:  Posting past Marquette draft pick selections all day at http://www.twitter.com/muoverload
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Lennys Tap

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1420 on: June 23, 2022, 10:07:34 AM »
Yes. And every other player did the same. In an ideal world, as the best player, Justin never would have relented or put his head down for one second, but that's simply not realistic. You miss a layup or throw a bad pass, and you're mad at yourself, and that can cause you to be a couple seconds late getting back. It happens to every player, including the best in the world.



Ah, the old “everybody does it” excuse. Almost never accurate. Or compelling.

If “everybody” does it how come it’s not in everybody’s scouting report?


Goose

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1421 on: June 23, 2022, 10:21:59 AM »
Anyone that thinks his body language is not something of note is not being honest, IMO. I have watched a lot basketball over the years and I have not heard announcers single out guys on body language very often, yet it was mentioned more than once by an announcer last year. There are intangibles in life and I think it is always best to leave nothing to chance and I think Lewis left that to chance. Who knows, maybe he drops a few spots because of that and the team that gets him ends up an all star player.



Scoop Snoop

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1422 on: June 23, 2022, 11:35:18 AM »
Anyone that thinks his body language is not something of note is not being honest, IMO. I have watched a lot basketball over the years and I have not heard announcers single out guys on body language very often, yet it was mentioned more than once by an announcer last year. There are intangibles in life and I think it is always best to leave nothing to chance and I think Lewis left that to chance. Who knows, maybe he drops a few spots because of that and the team that gets him ends up an all star player.

Agree with you Goose. It cannot be statistically measured, so it is easily dismissed as nonexistent. I saw it late season '18-19' but can I prove it was present? No.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 02:55:57 PM by Scoop Snoop »
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MU82

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1423 on: June 23, 2022, 11:52:03 AM »
Ah, the old “everybody does it” excuse. Almost never accurate. Or compelling.

If “everybody” does it how come it’s not in everybody’s scouting report?

Read LAZAR's post.

And yes, everybody does it.

I also find it pretty humorous that some of those who defend Joey at every turn so easily criticize a first-team All-Big East player who has accomplished waaaaaaay more than Joey has. And that includes the 3 years after Joey left Marquette to be mentored by a Hall of Fame coach.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 11:56:12 AM by MU82 »
"We understand that for some reason, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, guns are more important than children. Today we stand for Lexi, and as her voice, we demand action."

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Viper

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Re: Justin
« Reply #1424 on: June 23, 2022, 12:02:19 PM »
Read LAZAR's post.

And yes, everybody does it.

I also find it pretty humorous that some of those who defend Joey at every turn so easily criticize a first-team All-Big East player who has accomplished waaaaaaay more than Joey has. And that includes the 3 years after Joey left Marquette to be mentored by a Hall of Fame coach.
Joey Turnover, Justin the Slouth. Come on man!
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